There is a story going around that Senator Kitching's premature death could have occurred because of her treatment by her own party. Three of her 'sister' Senators, Wong, Kenneally and Gallagher have been named as 'mean girls' involved in the bullying. Would-be Prime Minister, Albanese's reaction has not been about Kitching, but how "yesterday" and "disappointing" it is to hear his still-with-us colleagues described as mean girls.

Senator Kitching was an outstanding member of what is left of the party's Right. Conformation of her preselection for the coming election was denied, and even her own faction would not support her. She was ostracised.

When she asked the party for an economy class fare to London to receive an award for her work in human rights (something they should have been proud of) they refused her. She paid for her own ticket.

She was treated like a pariah because she stuck to her principles rather than following Labor dogma. She was humiliated for not cooperating with Labor's weaponization of the Higgins rape allegations. She was also 'hawkish' on China, and they couldn't tolerate that.

Labor, always chuntering about workplace bullying, particularly of women, made Kimberly Kitching's work life a misery

Its different when they do it because of reasons.

The ABC website, which can barely go a day without some homage to Higgins or Grace, somehow missed this story.

If it was a story about some conservative group, the only thing being discussed would be whether to build gallows or guillotines. Paul would've already started three threads on it.

When you're support for women is contingent on their politics, you don't support women. But they won't understand that.

I have''t heard of this Gallagher sheilah but Wong & Kennealy could give Nancy Pelosi a run for her money !
They're Cobra, Eastern Brown & Rattle Snake !

ttbn,

Thank You for this thread.

Bill Shorten was a close friend of hers and got quite
emotional, fighting back tears, in his speech on ABC news.

I admired Kimberley Kitching greatly. Her views on many
things were well known. From communist China, to her championing
for the oppressed Uighur and Tibetan people. Her death has
been publicly mourned by the Dalai Lama. Kimberley was an
advocate for human rights. She spoke six languages including
French and Latin and she loved learning the etymology of
written words.

She's been described as :

"a warm, caring, happy, intelligent woman who was full of
optimism and positivity. She was curious about the world and
everyone in it."

To die at 52 - is too soon. My condolences go out to
her family, colleagues, and friends. She shall be greatly missed.
She was able to mix with all sides of politics. We need more
like her in parliament.

RIP.

Here's a link on some reactions to her death:

http://abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/victorian-labor-senator-kimberley-kitching-dies/100900882

Sure Foxy, but we weren't talking about her and her qualities but about how was mistreated by the feminist mafia in the left of the ALP.

mhaze,
the feminist mafia aka the venom club

There's something sickening about the media pile-on over the untimely death of this woman. They have stopped just short of accusing Wong & Co of murder and the ALP of subsequently covering it up.

It's not normal for a 52-year old to die of a heart attack and stress alone will not do it and there would certainly have been other direct contributing factors but all the reich-wing media sees is an opportunity.

The government can't campaign on it's abysmal record so must look elsewhere and history shows it's always willing to "play the man".
Sky After Dark presenters are foaming at the mouth over this and conveniently ignore other subjects like the resignation of a NSW Upper House MP over flood funding.

How much lower will they go for the desperate scramble for votes once the election is called?

Nicely put Foxy,

Kimberly Kitching seem to be someone who made a difference in the parliment. Gone at 52, far to young.

mhaze, you can't think for yourself, so don't try thinking for me. My enemies enemy is not necessarily my friend.

Nobodys mentioning the elephant in the room.
Both Kitching and Warne were vaccinated.

Nobody wants to talk about the increase in myocarditis and heart attacks?
That would stuff up the pro-vaccine narrative wouldn't it?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html

In relation to the bullying issue.
You know what? I'm sick of myself being bullied into playing by their rules when they don't even play by their own rules.

They are the most disgusting hypocritical people alive.
I don't know why anyone on the planet, would want Penny Wong representing them.
She makes me want to throw up, just seeing it and hearing it speak on the television.

Why do these people seem so ingrained into the system to be irreplaceable?
Too much inside knowledge.

I would rather vote for the kangaroo in my backyard.
If these people represent women, then I pity ALL WOMEN

And speaking of Covid, just want to say THESE PEOPLE are the real virus.

Ugly, disgusting nest of vipers.
Nothing but a disappointment and an embarrassment to the country and the world to have these hags up on show.

VOTE 1 NONE OF THE ABOVE

Thanks Armchair Critic. Kudos.

A rather long bow there AC, why not simply say as Big Clive does, 100% of vaccinated people die. As for who you vote for, or don't vote for, Wong or a kangaroo, it's your choice.

Of the three "ladies" in question, the only one I had anything to do with is Keneally, and that was in NSW State politics, didn't care much for her then. Seeing first hand what a shallow, self-serving person she was, given the opportunity I wouldn't vote for her now.

In the infamous "Obeid" election our Green candidate scored a 16% swing against her, and Keneally was Obeids Priemer at the time.

AC,

I have to say that I don't see the point of Wong and that droning voice, and I am repelled by her sexual orientation. I am not supposed to say that of course, but there it is. She and her mean sisters have added nothing to Australia, and have done for the only woman in Labor worth a cracker. But, let's be honest, how many women have contributed anything to politics. How many of them have been anything but tokens to political correctness. On the Labor side one, now gone. On the Liberal/National side, none. We are left with Pauline Hanson as the only woman of any interest. In the political commentariate, we have one: Peta Credlin.

Women, in the main, are wonderful. They are just not cut out for certain occupations and activities, as the catiness against one of their own has highlighted. They are not meant for politics, AFL, cricket, military service, police etc.

In the meantime, Albanese has ruled out any investigation into bullying claims. What a hero! Scared of mean girls?

Scott Morrison, definitely scared of women, and eager for their votes, thinks that there should be an investigation; but it is none of his business.

Two of the mean girls have denied culpability, as they would; but Keneally has refused to comment, "out of respect for Senator Kitching's passing". No respect for the Senator, just her death.

ttbn,

How about broadening your outlook on women?

http://awm.gov.au/women-in-defence

There's also histories of Australian women in the
police force, in sport, in politics, and the list
goes on.

Ever heard of Enid Lyons or Edith Cowan?

Thankyou, Foxy. I thought that I had made it clear that there are exceptions - Kitching, Credlin and Hanson. Apparently not.

I am not aware of any women distinguishing themselves in military combat, and I am used to seeing female police officers flapping about ineffectually at the edges of the frequent melees male officers have to deal with. I am personally acquainted with an ex-officer who is now a vegetable because his female partner did not have the size and strength - and perhaps not the grit - to assist him in a physical confrontation. He would undoubtedly still been in the job if he had had another male partner

Both sexes are good at the things they were 'designed' for.

ttbn,

May I again respectfully suggest that you have a read of this link:

awm.gov.au/women-in-defence

It's only one of many links that are available regarding
the roles that women have played over the years in positions
traditionally reserved for me.

Not all men are suitable for certain positions. The same applies
to women of course but to assign roles to them based on gender
only has never worked and still doesn't today. For every
sweeping generalisation - there will always be excemptions to
the rule. It has always been thus. We have to allow for
individual differences in each case. Yes there are short women -
just as there are shor men.

Here's the link again:

http://awm.gov.au/women-in-defence

Neither Enid Lyons nor Edith Cowan were in the military or the police from what I can see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Cowan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enid_Lyons

As ttbn said "Both sexes are good at the things they were 'designed' for."

There is a reason that there are two sexes- it seems that rarely does nature create redundant things.

But I admire the women of this era- they whinged less and produced and supported production more- whether these two satisfy this criteria I'd have to read more.

Henry David Thoreau quote "the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation"

But perhaps Thoreau might have done better to solve the butter problem than attack Harvard University. A great writer but perhaps not a great doer. Did he leave the world less desperate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_rebellion

None of the Thoreau children married- their line ended with them.

Edith Cowan was childless from the account- sounds like a proto-communist- but she deserves some more research- communists do seem to target the vulnerable- and she seems certainly vulnerable- reminds me of the beautiful entourage of the Aum sect.

The wife of Joseph Lyons- Enid Lyons had children Brendan and Kevin- at least she helped pass on the greatness of the Lyons to her and Joseph's descendants.

Soldiers talk of the unknown soldier.

ttbn- Sorry to hear about your police mate.

It is worthwhile reading the link I gave about Australian
women in the military. It puts things into a proper
perspective. Also looking up Simone Wilkie might also help.

There are many that talk about the military but few have seen combat even in the military. If your position is overrun the responsibility reverts to the craftsmen to step up as reinforcements. To lead combat there is a view that one should have been successful in combat- in the past commanders tended to be promoted from combat units. This is not just about being men but being the best of men- the wedge of the bell curve. I don't think there would be many women that I'd be comfortable watching my back. Interesting that Simone Wilkie admits that she isn't particularly technical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kajaki%20(film)

Politics is a brutal profession and prone to factional battles on both sides. Not everyone is suited to that sort of environment amd there have been casualties on all sides.

Two I can immediately recall are the attempted suicide of Labor Senator Nick Sherry after being humiliated by Peter Costello and the media.
There was also the attempted suicide of John Brogden after likewise public and media humiliation after making racist comments about Premier Carr's Asian wife.
No doubt there have been many others who couldn't work under the thumb of their handlers.

Meanwhile those who are tough enough to survive include those who violated the desk of a female MP or the chair-sniffing Western Australian opposition leader (who later resigned due to a mental breakdown).
So does the Liberal Party really want to start throwing such stones with their history of the "big swinging dicks" that control the Liberal pack?
That group (as named by Julie Bishop) included Christopher Pyne, Steven Ciobo, Greg Hunt, Peter Dutton, Jamie Briggs, Mathias Cormann, Michael Keenan and Morrison himself.

When it comes to defending womens' matters inside Parliament House and in society generally the government history has not been good.
I suppose Albanese could follow the Morrison strategy of holding a specifically limited inquiry that takes several months in the hope it all goes away.
It should also be noted Pauline Hanson as named above has voted consistently against the best interests of women - a pretty mean girl herself in that regard.

Overall, would this story have been the same if Kitching had been male?

From Paul: " so don't try thinking for me."

I wasn't thinking for you...I'd need to consult my 7 yr old grandson for that. I was just highlighting the hypocrisy of those who went after Porter based on far worse evidence than that levelled at the mean girls.

Rache thinks its just the Libs and the media who are pushing this....but all the evidence is coming from ALP circles. (As the movie said, the phone call is coming from inside the house).

Foxy, as is her wont, desperately tries to change the subject (after all we can't bad-mouth women of the left, can we?). She digs up some article which, she thinks, puts women in the military into, what she laughingly calls. perspective.

Here's some military perspective...41 Australians died in the Afghan war. How many of them were women? (hint - the answer is less than 1). There's some perspective.

mhaze- According to Foxy's logic perhaps this means that women are better soldiers than men- none of the women died- if we fill the Army with women we'll win every battle. Perhaps not.

Foxy,

I don't need to wade through an Australian War Memorial site to see what I already know - that women have been in the services and still are, and what a good job they have done, and undoubtedly still do, mainly in support roles.

I had a quick look, and it seemed to be a 'feel good' project, all part of the feminisation of the military, which is the in thing these days. Look at the TV recruitment ads and you would think that we have gone back to the days of the Iceni and Boudica. No men in sight. It is said that the Iceni women actually fought the Romans - they didn't just support male troops - killing about 70,000 of them.

If I did plough through your reference, would I find how many of the girls actually fought and were killed fighting in the past, and how many in any recent conflicts since in Korea, Vietnam or the Middle East. How many of them were, or are now, at the pointy end in say, the infantry, airforce or navy, where they could be required to go into action to kill or be killed at any time.

Doing basic training, then going into a job not much different from the ones you could get in civvy street doesn't make you a soldier.

Where are Britany Higgins and Grace Tame with regards to the abuse of KK?

Absolutely nowhere! These two posers have shot themselves in the foot.

SM

Good point. The feminista hypocrisy is appalling.

Talking about hypocrisy?

It wasn't me that tried to "divert" this
discussion. ttbn on page 3 made the comment
that "women are not meant for politics, AFL,
cricket, military service,
police, etc." I merely responded to his comment
by asking him to broaden his outlook on women
and gave a link of women in the military as an
example. ttbn said that he was already aware of
those facts. Go figure.

I also did give a reference to Brigadier Simone Wilkie.
Who was the first woman to command Australian
troops. She was the first National Commander, Afghanistan,
and the first woman to be in command of Australian soldiers
at war.

Brigadier Wilkie (47) was the National Commander
Afghanistan and in charge of all 1500 Australian personal
serving with ADF units and embedded with international
forces in the combat zone.

Brigadier Wilkie has emphatically stated that:

" I don't believe gender should preclude you serving
your nation. If you look across all sorts of occupations in
Australia we have women on the front line every day.
They are called police women. The critical thing is being
able to pass the physical."

There's more at the following link:

http://adelaidenow.au/news/national/first-woman-to-command-aussie-soldiers/news-story/306fb7cea989692292fb2f9a1e95e230

Here's the link again:

http://adelaidenow.au/news/national/first-woman-to-command-aussie-soldiers/news-story/306fb7cea98969229efb2f9a1e95e230

It is disgusting how the term "mean girls" has been
bandied about so liberally by the Coalition and
outlets of the Murdoch Press. They seem to have a
pre-occupation with politicising her sudden death
into further devaluing women, than putting a red
line under damaging workplace culture.

While the stress over her Senate pre-selection may have
been a contributing factor in her undexpected death
and she may have used the term privately of "mean girls"
I doubt whether she'd feel comfortable about all
this flowing into public debates nor the way an
opportunistic and agenda driven media have jumped on
all this ahead of an election.

We can all question whether she'd want her life and
legacy in the political arena (which was profound) to be
detracted from, or for her family and friends to have
to deal with the additional hurt and heartbreak of
seeing all this play out so publicly.

RIP - Kimberley Kitching.

Her funeral will be on Monday at
St. Patrick's Cathedral.

Brigadier Simone Wilkie, of Wikipedia fame, now retired Major General, via time-serving, could have been in harm's way as a platoon leader, but there is no record of her being in action. She has the usual gongs just for 'being there' plus a commendation for duty in 'war like operations', whatever 'warLIKE' means. All fairly cushy and tokenistic. At least she stayed out of politics unlike her ex husband.

Fine looking woman too, but still nothing about real blood and guts fighting, Foxy. I can help you a little by advising that TWO females passed selection for the SAS in 2021. Whether or not they finished I do not know, but they said to have 'made history'.

You will not find any other evidence of real soldiering by women.

As for it being "disgusting" how the term "mean girls" has been bandied about", what the mean girls did to Senator Kitching - bullying and cancelling - is much more disgusting and hypocritical. Mean girls is a very mild name for the three harpies. A good person is dead. They are still there.

Recognising and keeping in front of voters what these awful women did to her is not "detracting" anything from Senator Kitching, and it is reminding people of the types that infest Labor, who are keen to cancel even their own.

The Department of Veteran Affairs published a book in
March 2020:

"Australian Women in War: Service, Courage, and Care."

They felt that "The history of Australian women
in times of war is as vital as the history of men in
the same circumstances. Australian women have been
involved in a range of conflicts in locations across
the world."

We have the example of Simone Wilkie who retired as
a Major General after an exceptional military career spanning
35 years with operational service in Cambodia, Iraq, and
as the Commander in Afghanistan.

As for Kimberley Kitching and her private use of the term
"mean girls?" This has been politicised by the Coalition and
the Murdoch Press - and people who are more concerned about
about slamming Labor ahead of an election than they are worried
about workplace culture.

However, they won't succeed because Kimberley Kitching's
legacy is profound and will stand on its own for her family
and friends. All three so called "mean girls" will be attending
her funeral on Monday. And the Murdoch Press I'm sure will
give it full coverage and commentary - unbiased as always - of course.

Women soldiers will never be treated equally as men, because if they get captured they will, in all probability, be raped, and raped again, by their captors.

Referring to Albanese's double standards on the Kitching matter, IPA's John Roskam says that the issue is not that Kitching was bullied, "which she was", but that she was "cancelled" by Labor's leadership and removed from roles of any influence and responsibility because she stood for an era of Labor which is no longer dominant in the party.

"The modern left might embrace the diversity of identity politics but not diversity of opinion".

Kitching was a victim of the cancel culture of the left. "It is what Labor now does to its own", said Roskam.

Thank you for your opinions, Foxy; but I shall stick with mine.

ttbn,
War like refers to situations where war has not been declared but there is fighting going on and a real chance of being shot.
Peace keeping in places like Timor and Iraq and Somalia to name a few.

The Confrontation with Indonesia was a prime example as was the Emergency in Malaya.

ttbn,

I feel that our nation needs diverse voices around the
table. A diversity of thought, background, heritage,
race and gender - all add up to the capability of any
leader to make a decision. It makes our nation stronger
and better.

Whilst ever PMT can be used as a defence for out of character actions by pre-menopausal women there is no place for such women, unless on suppressant medication, to be in critical combat positions where the lives of their fellow military can depend on their ability to think clearly and act decisively.

Foxy,

The thread is about the abuse of K Kitching by Labor MPs that you are desperately trying to avoid.

The reality is that for left whingers abuse of women by left whingers is OK, it is only when the faintest mistreatment by conservatives occurs that feminists will take any action.

Grace Tame and Brittany Higgins are notable for their silence.

shadowminister,

I have dealt with the Coalition's and the Murdoch press
attempted politicisation of Kimberley Kitching's death.
Nothing further needs to be added. There's an election coming
up so their behaviour and finger-pointing is understandable.
Nothing more needs to be said.

_________________________________________________________________

The NY Times asked female soldiers and veterans to share their
experiences in the military. Here's just a few selections of their
words:

"My male counterparts were deemed competent and capable until
they proved otherwise where on the other hand It was often
assumed that I was incompetent until I proved I was not."

Diana Kramer - deployed overseas 5 times. She was the only
woman assigned to her unit in 4 out of her 5 deployments.

"Because we are female, a lot of respect slips through the
cracks and we are treated as though we aren't worth as much
as a male. We work twice as hard to het half as far."

Marylin Wordman. She was deployed overseas 3 times. Each time
serving in units where women made up 10 to 25 percent of the
squad.

Foxy,

What’s their combat record?
Were they under fire?
Did they kill?
Wounded in action?

Kimberly Kitchen had told a friend how bad Wong was back in 2021, and had filed two complaints of bullying with Chris Marles, and an outside consultant who had been giving training on safe and respectful workplaces.

I wonder if the three mean girls attended the training. It's a horrible thought that two of them could be ministers in the next federal government. Wouldn't that be a good look! How could anyone believe that they are fit to be parliamentarians, let alone ministers of the crown.

Kimberley Kitching did not lodge any complaints with
the leader of the Labor Party. If she had it would have
had a reaction. The Labor Party does have procedures in
place that deal with complaints as Tania Plibersek has
pointed out.

How many politicians can really claim that their behaviour
has always been nothing less than beyond reproach.
We expect our MPs to act in a way that builds confidence
and takes social responsibility seriously. We expect that
our MPs should not engage in any practice that compromises the
integrity of the Party, its members and the political
process. Most do adhere to these expectations. And those
that don't are in a minority.

For that we can be thankful. We also have the opportunity to
vote them out at the next election. We currently have an election
in South Australia. It will be interesting to see who the
winners will be. Labor or Liberal.

Your so full of feelgood crap Foxy it's nauseating.
I'm sitting here watching 4 Corners about how the Public Trustee screws old people over, locks them up at their own expense against their will, without access to lawyers and legal representation or their own money.

Where's the MPs Foxy?

Too busy looking out for themselves. Criminals Foxy.
Why act to suppress a taxpayer funded Crime and Corruption Commission report?
Such powerful worldly women.
Bullcrap, they're scum criminals in power.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-17/qld-court-former-deputy-premier-jackie-trad-suppression-order/100919388

I'll tell you what they're not doing.

They are NOT coming up with policies that have their constituents best interests.
Which means they don't deserve to be there.

Vote them out.
Beaurecrats stay around forever and that's why these things never change.
No transparency and no accountability.
And that's obviously how they like it.

Why don't you go watch 4 Corners and be disgusted with whats going on in this country, just as I am right now.

Three weeks ago I went to claim my Emergency Flood payment.
Seriously it took at least ten people three weeks, to do the job one efficient person could've done in 15 mins.

Any normal business would go broke, but the government has no cost accountability, simply finds ways to hire more people and make everything convoluted until the price ends up 10 times higher than it should be, and nobody actually knows what anyone else actually does.

The people you're singing the praises of are grossly incompetent.
After Covid, I can say these peoples incompetence RUIN peoples lives and get people killed.

And what qualifications does the Minister for Aged ACTUALLY have in dealing with needs of older Australians?
Probably none, like none of them do.

You can be the eternal optimist, but you must have a poor sense of smell.
You can't smell the BS.
Watch 4 Corners.

After watching the end, I'm starting to think they wanted to put him in the ground and steal everything he had, all going to the government system - including his home and the land it sits on, which looks like quite a significant block of land close to the city.

You should be disgusted in the people who represent us.
I hope what they do to those people never happens to you.

Foxy,

You absolutely have not dealt with the topic, all you have tried to do is brush it under the carpet and whitewash it as a coalition election ploy.

What happened to KK was far worse than anything that happened to Brittany Higgins at the hands of any MP.

"What happened to KK was far worse than anything that happened to Brittany Higgins at the hands of any MP."

It was disgusting, and as usual, the media is turning a blind eye to it. If yesterday's SA election is anything to go by, we will see Labor's bullying and cancel culture going full bore from the government benches sometime this year. SA Liberals deserved what they got because they put a dill in as leader, much the same as the federal mob did.

The ALP is now smothering and denying the Kitching affair, just as they smothered and denied the the women herself.

The most sickening thing, apart from what the mean girls did to her, is their pretend 'respect' for a dead woman they did not respect while she was alive.

Albanese denies all knowledge of the situation. What sort of PM will he be if he doesn't know what goes on in his own party! What sort of deputy will a mean girl be!

shadowminister,

I have expressed my opinion regarding the bullying
of Kimberley Kitching. And I stand by my opinion.
Whether you like my opinion or not is irrelevant
to me.

Mr Albanese has decided there will not be an investigation
into the allegations as no formal complaint was lodged by
Kitching. That is his call.

We can continue to argue this matter - but nothing
productive will be achieved. Neither of us will change
our minds. I'm sure that if the shoe was on the other foot.
If this was a case of the Coalition being accused of bullying,
Labor would be screaming for their blood with great gusto
as well. Such is politics.

Plus there's an election coming up so things are going to get
even more ramped up.

Kitching's funeral is tomorrow. Hopefully, she will be treated
with respect and allowed to finally Rest In Peace.

The internal factional fighting can surely be put aside for
a while. Internal fighting is something that all sides of
politics share. No party is squeaky clean. And digging up dirt
on your opponent's side is how the game is played.
Unfortunately.

I found it great that Peter Malinauskas has
won in South Australia. Especially that there
not seems to be a more diverse mix of politicians
happening in this country. We have Anastacia
Palaszczuk, Dominic Perrottet, Peter Malinauskas,
( we had Gladys Berejiklian), and we may even
have an - Antony Albanese as PM.

Who knows if this trend will continue and who else
will be added to the mix in the future.

Interesting times ahead.

Are there women in the Australian military?
Yes.

Are these women on the front lines or in any way in harms way?
No. Forty-one Australians killed on duty in Afghanistan. Every one of them had a penis.

The end.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

The way the left is rallying around the mean girl brigade and their like is revealing. As I've said often, if you only support women when the politics suit, then you aren't supporting women, you're using women.

And it seems that some women like, crave, being used.

They aren't going to put women on the front lines
They sing the praises of women in the military, that's some good publicity for their agenda
But women coming home in caskets, well it's just not worth the negative publicity

The Canberra Times tells us that:

Formal restrictions on women's service in the
Australian Defence Force (ADF) were lifted in
2013, barriers to combat roles were removed in
2016 and Defence exemptions under the Sex
Discrimination Act were scrapped in 2016.

According to the ADF's most recent annual report,
women comprise 17.9 per cent of the armed forces,
including 21.5 percent of the navy, 22.1 percent of the
air force and 14.3 percent of the army.

Their representation of the top of the services is even
smaller. Just 22 of the 181 star-ranked officers were
women as of June last year. But there are signs that
Defence is making progress in its aims to have a quarter
of all air-force and navy personel and 15 of army soldiers,
women by 2023.

Women now comprise 30% of enlistments and, combined with
improved retention, has boosted their over all numbers in
the ranks of the ADF by 652.

According to the Canberra Times women leadership makes
defence better:

http://canberratimes.com.au/story/6846428/womens-leadership-makes-defence-better/

My apologies I typed the wrong number - here's the link again:

http://canberratimes.com.au/story/6646428/womens-leadership-makes-defence-better/

Foxy

Nobody makes more mistakes than you do with 'links' - most of which I would bet are never looked at because they are just going to say what you have already said. To save embarrassment and effort, try just saying what you think - you know, think for yourself. Don't believe everything you see on Google. I hesitate to call you a useful idiot for PC propagandists because you are not much use, given the very small number of people who read your second-hand news.

ttbn,

Thank You for your honesty and concern regarding
my posts.

I enjoy the forum. I'm not
embarrassed by the errors I make - simply frustrated due
to failing eye-sight. Hopefully this will change after
I have another eye operation soon.

I think most of us like to think that what we post and
contribute to this forum is of some value. However, if
you think I'm of little value - that's fine as well.
I appreciate your candor. And your taking the time and
effort to let me know how you feel.

Foxy,

As far as I can see your opinion is that the coalition has made it all up.

Albo has now been forced to agree to an investigation. The 3 Labor Shrews are now going to be exposed as is the labor hypocrisy.

For those who enjoy alliteration this, just read, referring, to the three Labor female bullies as, "... the 'ghastly girls' of modern Labor' is far more satisfying, and more appropriate, than 'mean girls'.

shadowminister,

The Coalition has politicized the incident. Labor
would do the same thing if the shoe was on the
other foot. As I said earlier - that's the way the game
is played in politics.

I'm not aware that Albanese is now agreeing to any
investigation. Labor already has processes in place
for anyone to lodge any formal complaints.

___________________________________________________________________

As for the topic of having women in combat?

There's plenty of pros and cons published on the
web for anyone interested in pursuing that topic.

See you all on another discussion.

Before I leave this discussion I'd just like to share
the following with you all - on the subject of "politics."

A little boy goes to his father and asks - "What is politics?"

"Well son, let me try to explain it this way: I'm the
breadwinner of the family, so lets call me capitalism.
Your mother she's the administrator of the money, so lets
call her the government. We're here to take care of your
needs, so we'll call you - the people. The nanny we'll consider
her the working class. And your baby brother we'll call him
the future."

"Now think about that and see if it makes sense."

The little boy goes off to bed thinking about what his dad
has said. Late that night he hears his baby brother crying so
he gets up to check on him. He finds his baby brother has soiled
his nappy. The little boy goes to his parents room and finds
his mother sound asleep. Not wanting to wake her he goes to the
nanny's room. Finding the door locked he peeks in through the
keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny.

He gives up and goes back to bed.

The next morning the little boy says to his father, "Dad, I think
I understand the concept of politics now."

His father says, "Good son, tell me in your own words what
you think politics is all about."

The little boy replies:

"Well, while capitalism is screwing the working class,
the government is sound asleep. The people are being ignored,
and the future is in deep s#*t."

Politicians are like bananas, I read on an American site, when they start in politics they are green but turn yellow and there is not a straight one in the bunch.

Foxy,

Your complete failure to condemn the abuse of KK simply because it is done by your idols is a stain on you.

All we can conclude is that you condone the abuse of women by other women.

Trying to somehow equate the sexual assault of Tame and Higgins with internal political factional matters is more than strange.

Unlike Kitching and the "mean girls", the other two were grossly mistreated and physically abused by men but like Holgate and many others they were treated as matters of political convenience by the government and discarded.

If you want to see true political bullying on a personal level at work then just remember what was done to Gillard and not behind closed doors but with the collusion and participation of a very hostile media and the same group are at work now.

From a factionalised system that operates on this level on both sides and from a PM whose own preselection was tainted, the hypocrisy is staggering.

Dear rache,

Thank you.

Well said.

I don't see any connection either. But that Higgins was "grossly mistreated and physically abused by men (or a man)", is definitely not "well said". The accused has not been to trial yet, and he intends to plead not guilty. Given the pre-judging by our PM and the media (I don't think rache's ignorant comment will figure), it will not be a great surprise if the matter never comes to trial.

I'm wondering what, at the coming election, the average Australian woman voter will do about one of the 'ghastly girl's' (and a lesbian at that) appalling comment about Senator Kitching not having children.

Careful Rache,
"the other two were grossly mistreated and physically abused by men "
There are legal requirements when a trial is to take place.

Come on rache, if anything was done to Gillard it was far too little far too late after the lying bi#ch promised no carbon tax, knowing damn well she was going to implement one if she got the chance.

Meanwhile we are still paying through the nose for "Gillard's Revenge" in the NDIS & Gonski scheme.

I can't think of any thing bad enough we could do to her for the damage she did the country & it's people.

Rache,

Firstly, I don't see anyone drawing a direct parallel with KK to Tame and Higgins.

Secondly, as far as Higgins is concerned, all we know is that she entered Payne's office unauthorised pissed as a fart and was later discovered buck naked and still pissed. Other than her word there is not a jot of evidence that she even had sex let alone that she was raped.

I think that the trial will be interesting.

Good onya, Bazz, Hasbeen and SM.

A while ago I opined that the Coalition needed to be kicked out to refresh, regroup, and get back to being the right of centre party they used to be. That would have meant a Labor government.

I have changed my mind. Labor gets uglier by the day, and it is not just the three ghastly girls; it is the entire leadership.

It would nice if the Coalition could stay there, with a new leader and the ejection of the 'moderates' (lefties), of which there are far too many.

The Labor ghastly girls have introduced 'feminine toxicity' into general discourse, something previously known as 'catiness', that many women have been victims of throughout history.

SM,
"Where are Britany Higgins and Grace Tame with regards to the abuse of KK?"
You're the one who brought these women into the discussion.

Does Parliamentary workplace culture to extend to bullying by Higgins's boss (Linda Reynolds) calling her a lying cow?
Did those hapless victims of the Robodebt fiasco consider themselves bullied by Centrelink at the request of the minister?

It's quite true that this is a legal matter, although tainted by public discussion. It should also be noted that the accused (Bruce Lehrmann) has a reputation for unwanted sexual advances and it will indeed be an interesting case. It's a shame (or coincidence?) it will happen after the coming election.

tbbn
If the comment by those "ghastly girls" (lesbian or not if that matters to you) about Senator Kitching not having children was appalling then how do these comments about Gillard by prominent Liberals rate?
“I mean anyone who chooses to remain deliberately barren… they’ve got no idea what life’s about.”
“You won’t need his (PM Kevin Rudd) taxpayer-funded nanny, will you?”
“She has chosen not to be a parent… she is very much a one-dimensional person… she just doesn’t understand the way parents think about their children when they reach a particular age.”
"Australians "ought to be kicking her to death"".

Hasbeen,
That infamous two second grab about the "no carbon tax" has long since been shown to be a deliberate distortion and even Peta Credlin has admitted it was never a tax. When it comes to the economic mismanagement and waste stakes, Morrison is way,way out in front and with nothing to show for it.

Rache,

Higgins and Tame were brought into the discussion because they are the self-appointed activists against the abuse of women especially in parliament yet on the abuse of KK they have remained silent on the abuse of women in parliament by Labor. No one other than you has tried to draw a comparison between what happened to them and KK.

They are condemned for their partisan hypocrisy.

rache,

Your repertoire needs upgrading. Gillard ceased her public existence a decade ago. Besides, you, like our dear friend Foxy, have merely made political capital out of this. I, shadowminister and hasbeen, gentlemen that we are, are interested in the well being of all women irrespective of their politics

rache,

Your repertoire needs upgrading. Gillard ceased her public existence a decade ago. Besides, you, like our dear friend Foxy, have merely made political capital out of this. I, shadowminister and hasbeen, gentlemen that we are, are interested in the well being of all women irrespective of their politics.

Senator Kitching believed that she was being monitored, not by the Chinese she criticised, but by one Tim Ayres, Labor MP, who was planted on committees with her to report back to the party's nastys.

Cue for Labor tragics, who don't mind that their heroes do not walk the talk on women, to cry paranoia on the poor, dead woman.

Oh dear.

People are weaponizing her death right now and
they can't see why that's awful. None of us really
know the truth of the bullying allegations. No such
causal link has been established between the ALP and
her death. Nor is it likely to be.

The biggest news this week was the thrashing that the
Liberal Party received in South Australia - and with
a federal election just around the corner it's
no wonder that both the Coalition and the Murdoch Press
are diverting the implications of the SA election
into Kitching's death.
Ironic when their own record regarding the treatment of
women and bullying is bad.

A case of - pot, kettle, black.

Australian voters are not stupid. They'll be able to
sift through all this - and make their feelings known
accordingly come the election.

I watched part of the Kitching funeral on television.
It was very moving and beautiful. A worthy memorial to
an exceptional lady. Sad that this here death has been used for
political gain by some.

Foxy,

I see that KK's husband at her funeral made it perfectly clear what bitches he thought the 3 female Labor senators were.

Are you saying that he is only doing this because he is a coalition supporter?

Senator Kitching's death and bullying is not a 'diversion', Foxy. I am rather surprised that you see it that way.

As for the SA election, the government lost the election for things it did or didn't do over the past four years. The electorate punished them for it. Interestingly, it was the 'moderates' (aka, lefties) who lost their seats. The few who are left, apart from Vicki Chapman, are more to the right, as people expect of a centre right party. My electorate has been Labor ever since I have lived in it. I'm quiet happy with the MP, but I put her second to One Nation on principle. She still got 67% of the vote, and I don't begrudge her that. She has assisted me on a couple of matters, she works hard for the electorate, and I don't mind that she is Labor. At least they have an impressive leader this time.

The SA rout has led NSW transport minister, David Elliott, to blast his own mob for its wokeness and moving away from the centre right.

shadowminister,

Kitching's husband did not name anybody and he made
it clear that it was a small number of people who
opposed her views internally - which as you know is
the norm in politics. He did not list names of state
that they were women. As I said earlier - none of
us really know the truth of the bullying allegations
and therefore we really should not be finger-pointing
at anyone, especially when the track-record from both
sides of the major parties is not a good one.

ttbn,

We all have our opinions. Like you, I also stand by mine.

Foxy,

The husband has probably heard of libel laws, but he certainly alluded to the three ghastly girls, and everyone in that church, including the mean trio would have known who he meant.

You claim that "none of us really know the truth of the bullying allegations"? I think we did and do. But I'm more concerned, not about your opinions, but about your statement that it is no "wonder that both the Coalition and the Murdoch Press are diverting the implications of the SA election", which is simply untrue. The shocking behaviour of three members of the ALP (unless you are calling a dead woman a liar) and the leadership and deputy leadership of that group refusing to investigate that hypocritical behaviour after telling the government that it had trouble with women, should have been reported, and was, along with all the other news of the day.

I don't remember you being so precious about the ABC's hounding of an innocent George Pell, or the rape accusations against a government minister that could not be defended because the accuser was deceased.

If I had time, I could bring up any amount of instances where you cheered on the ABC and Chanel 9 papers witch hunts, but you would deny everything.

Yes. Opinions are fine, but scurrilous comments and untrue statements are not.

Ex Labor MP, Emma Husar, has added her experiences with ghastly girl Keneally, who she says ostracised her and froze out, ignoring her after she "got what she needed". Her treatment was similar to that of Senator Kitching.

Hopefully more women, and men, will speak up before the election so that voters can know the truth of a party that has been hiding its own toxicity behind its accusations against the government about the very things they are guilty of themselves.

Here's an interesting of firsts for the right side of politics:

First female federal Cabinet Minister (without portfolio) – Hon Dame Enid Lyons in 1951 – Liberal
First female federal Minister with portfolio – Hon Dame Annabelle Rankin between 1966-68 – Liberal
First female in any Parliament – Edith Cowan OBE (WA State) 1921-24 – National
First female in Qld Parliament – Irene Longman 1929 – Country Party
First female in Vic Parliament – Lady (Millicent) Peacock 1933-35 – UAP
First female federal MP – Hon Dame Enid Lyons AD, 1943-51 – UAP/Liberal
First female Senator from Queensland – Hon Dame Annabelle Rankin 1947-71 – Liberal
First female Cabinet Minister in Australia (WA State) – Hon Dame Florence Cardell-Oliver 1949-53 – Liberal
First female Mayor in Qld – Nell Robinson OBE, Mayor of Toowoomba 1967-81 – Country/National
First federal female Cabinet Minister with portfolio – Hon Dame Margaret Guilfoyle AC, DBE 1975-82 – Liberal
First female Lord Mayor of Brisbane – Sallyanne Atkinson AO 1985-92 – Liberal
First female Lord Mayor of Sydney – Lucy Turnbull AO 2003-2004 – Liberal
First female party leader in SA – Isobel Redmond 2009-2012 – Liberal
First female Speaker of Tasmanian House of Assembly – Hon Elise Archer MLA 2014-17 – Liberal
First popularly elected female Premier of NSW – Hon Gladys Berejiklian (Liberal) 2019-2021 – Liberal

While the Fox media in particular are trying to now steer the discussion toward Albanese personally they will then need to defend Morrison's character over his deliberate inaction during the Porter matter plus various rouge MPs.
The longer this contrived story lasts the more it will develop onto undesirable areas and there are already unflattering discussions about Kitching, her husband and their financial dealings and previous history. However the chances are they will remain protected by some of the media in the same way Kathy Jackson was.

However despite the hysteria the latest poll taken during the "mean girls" revelation shows no hoped-for "bounce" for the government so they may need to look elsewhere for an angle.

tbbn.
I'm the one trying to make political capital out of this? Really? This whole matter and discussion is about weaponising the death of one woman for political purposes. There is similar history and culture on both sides but the focus seems to be on allegations about three women specifically and not all women irrespective of their politics.

Rache,

When even ABC declares that there is no incriminating evidence against Porter why should Morrison act against Porter based on what is essentially gossip?

As for the bullying of KK by the Labor weird sisters, there is ample evidence including a complaint lodged. The point is that unless Albo grease does something Labor's credibility goes out the window.

We've all had our says in this discussion.
And as we can see we all have different ways of
thinking as a result of unique individual experiences
which is why there will always be disagreements.

I think that it is worthwhile to talk to people we
disagree with because it does encourage us to think
more deeply about certain topics. Without disagreements
there would be no individualism.

Of course we can't always be on the same page as this discussion
has shown. I am grateful to ttbn fir starting this discussion.
It did provide me with more information on the complex world of
politics.

Anyhow, I look forward to our next discussion and hopefully
we shall try to understand each other a bit better.

Take care everyone and have a nice day.

Hi Foxy,

I can only comment personally on Kristina Keneally, who I got to know some what during the 2011 state election campaign when she was Premier of NSW, and member for Heffron, the preferred Premier of the labor right faction run by Eddie Obeid, Labor suffered a resounding defeat that election due to the Obeid scandal. Generally in elections candidates show respect for other candidates, its an unwritten rule, I found KKK to be snobbish and condescending towards others, both the Liberal and Greens ran females, my friend is now a Senator for NSW, the Liberal girl was very nice, but very inexperienced. In a shock preference meeting I had suggested preferencing Miss Liberal and putting Kenneally last on HTV as a statement on corruption. My suggestion did not go down well with some of my fellow Greens as they had fallen for Kenneally's; "I'm no ones (Eddie Obeid) gal" line in relation to her position as Premier, others including me knew better. If the Liberals had a more experienced candidate, and ran a decent campaign I still believe with Green preferences they could have won the safe Labor seat. In this instance I can quite believe what a bitchy attitude Kenneally would be capable of.

rache,

Yes mate. Really, you are.

For the opened minded, non-ideological among us:

"A recent, report (sic) by the Independent Review into Commonwealth Parliamentary Workplaces found that women were twice as likely to bully another woman 66% than, they would a man at 32%" (See Phillip Hickox, 'Mean Girls' in today's contributions.) See about nurses.

"Female bullying is not something to be scoffed at, it needs to be tackled at the root, when bullying women are developing their strategies and tactics."

The Kimberley Kitching ‘mean girls’ allegations are not going away. Anthony Albanese still refuses to inquire into them.

Albanese cannot lead his party or a few wayward politicians. I would say that makes him incapable of leading a country of 25 million people.

All the ABC did to Porter was to say that copies of a certain letter had been distributed to certain people - full stop. The rest of the information came from elsewhere, including Porter who outed himself. The ABC was the ideological target and taking on Murdoch would have been out of the question.

Since the Porter case was settled out of court with no financial penalty payable (although the ABC agreed to pay mediation costs) it did not find him guilty or innocent, despite his claims. As far as the ABC was concerned there was no point in proceeding further.

If he was vindicated as he claims, why did he legally resist the public release of certain ABC documentation requested by other media groups?

Porter should have stood aside at least during the proceedings or Morrison should have at least removed him from the Attorney General portfolio. In any case the use of a "blind trust" goes against all convention and again, nothing was done and it was eventually up to Porter to resign from the Ministry himself.

It was the same for Alan Tudge who took it upon himself to resign despite being cleared of breaching Ministerial standards in an internal investigation.

Now that the standard has been set what are the chances that any of the "mean girls" should stand aside on the basis of gossip and accusing Albanese of not meeting standards the PM has deliberately avoided himself seems a bit hollow.

Rache,

Now you are just lying. That is not all the ABC said.

Secondly, there is not one jot of evidence nor formal complaint that Porter did anything wrong. How can you hold an inquiry with zero evidence?

There is far more evidence against Shorten yet you seem silent on this.

According to SM, 'Cry Baby' Porter was in for $10 million plus from the ABC, a grovelling apology and 100 ABC employees sacked to pay for it all.

shadowminister,

In both Christian Porter's case, and Bill Shorten's
neither faced a criminal court. Therefore they are
not entitled to the presumption of innocence. Had they
been tried before a criminal court the outcomes would
have been different.

However because the police in both cases determined there
was insufficient admissable evidence to take allegations of
a historical rape case to court - neither man never faced
a criminal court - and therefore cannot be afforded the
presumption of innocence. Instead as we've seen - Christian
Porter's life is in limbo, in which he wil never be legally
convicted, nor ever cleared.

cont'd ...

I forgot to add that Christian Porter was never questioned
by police. Bill Shorten was.

Pauliar,

Once again you are proving to be a LIAR and a FRAUD.

Foxy,

You got it wrong twice. In the case of Shorten, a complaint was laid, but with no corroborating evidence, the police did not have sufficient evidence to obtain a conviction.

With Porter, not only was no complaint to the police, there was zero evidence other than the incoherent scribblings of a mentally ill woman now deceased, so the police could not even start an inquiry.

Finally, you were the one claiming that the police had cleared Shorten and that Pell was still guilty in spite of being exonerated by the high court. You judgements seem somewhat partisan.

I don't know whether or not rache is "lying" as SM suggests, and I don't care. But I will repeat my claim that he is politicising the affair by bringing up what some disgusting grunt said about Julia Gillard. It was disgusting, but it should't be used to discount the also disgusting - and current - behaviour of the three disgusting Labor senators who hope to be in government soon.

A youngish woman is dead. Julia is alive and kicking, well able to look after herself. That's why she was our only female PM, even if she did queer the pitch for any other hopeful women for a long time to come. I quite liked her.

Got a laugh this morning from someone commenting on what a disinterested Albanese would have done if the three mean girls had have been Liberals:

"He would be all over the allegations like a cheap Selvitex suit, demanding resignations, let alone investigations. And be cheered on by the luvvies as he did so. His double standards are showing."

The 'suit' comment referring to Albo's new wardrobe, I presume.

The same bloke, regretting Ash Barty's retirement, lamented that it was a pity some of our politicians didn't retire instead of treating parliament like a retirement home for the demented.

shadowminister,

Pot, kettle, black.

ttbn said- "Good onya, Bazz, Hasbeen and SM.

A while ago I opined that the Coalition needed to be kicked out to refresh, regroup, and get back to being the right of centre party they used to be. That would have meant a Labor government.

I have changed my mind. Labor gets uglier by the day, and it is not just the three ghastly girls; it is the entire leadership.

It would nice if the Coalition could stay there, with a new leader and the ejection of the 'moderates' (lefties), of which there are far too many. "

Answer- I was wondering how long you would come to that conclusion ttbn. We see eye to eye on many things and it was an item of confusion for me. It doesn't mean that you need to put the Coalition first- if you vote below the line- it requires more effort and you have to check it three times- but you can exercise some discrimination and apply some pressure on the Liberal Party to do what is right and to act according to mandate. In time we might actually fix things- nothing important is easy. Kudos ttbn.

I rank the parties and the candidates according to their statements and their backgrounds. I put the most communist parties behind Labor (the highest numbers from memory) I start with the party I think is most communist and put it last and work backwards. Usually the Greens comes close to the Communist Party or similar. For the "good ones" I choose the ones that are most in my interest (most Traditionalist) in the smaller parties and number them until I reach the Coalition(Liberal/Nationals)- some go in the middle between Coalition and Labor.

I have my choices on paper before I go into the voting place- you can usually get a sample form with all the candidates for the electorate in the newspaper or elsewhere. Sometimes I have to cross out some candidates from the sheet and insert my own choices.

Donkey voting is not a solution as far as I see.

Understanding is the key

CM

It is not a new conclusion. At the last election I didn't vote for the Coalition. As a conservative, I am completely unable to vote for them. This time, they are still going to have the same leader and the same lefties. This time, I will be voting UAP, One Nation and Liberal Democrat. Depending on the number of other candidates, I might put the Liberal fourth. The party of mean girls and the Greens will be last.

ttbn,

Voting for Clive Palmer's UAP?

Really?

Good luck with that. Clive Palmer in 2019's federal
election despite his extensive advertising - he and his
party won no seats.

Of course it probably did not help the 4 charges of fraud
and other dishonesty brought against him. It seems he's
a pro at litigation.

But on the positive side on the 27th Feb 2022 - it was
reported Palmer purchased Adolf Hitler's Mercedes Benz 770
and a Rolls Royce owned by Kind Edward VIII to become part
of a vintage car museum in Queensland.

We need more flamboyancy in our Parliament - right?
Look at what Donald Trump did for America.

Foxy,

Yes, really. I have made up my mind as the UAP, and the other two are the nearest I can find to conservatism.

It doesn't matter that no seats were won last election, but what happens this election; and lots of things have happened between then and now, including revelations of what a rotter Scott Morrison is, and the bleeding obvious that the Liberal party is not much different from Labor. Some of its members are further to the left than many in the Labor party. That might suit you and others, but it does not suit me.

Has Palmer been found guilty of fraud? If has, he will be barred.
What does buying a historically important car have to do with anything? Perhaps you could flog your old Statesman to him.

I don't find Palmer "flamboyant"

The more people like Donald Trump we could have the better, but we don't have any, and I don't see why you even mention him.

Clive Palmer has already served in the Senate; he is standing again, and the word is that he has a good chance.

Talking of the Senate, don't hold your breath or swallow your tongue, but I will be voting, as I always do, 12 below the line, and there will not be a Liberal, Labor, Green or any other timeserving lefty among them.

The Senate will be the key this time more than ever, and I hope that there will be enough new faces there to keep in line whichever group of mongrels forms a government.

PS,

If seems that we will have our first One Nation Legislative Councillor after the SA election, and also a Lib.Dem.

Oh, the horror of people voting for candidates they prefer!

ttbn,

You do surprise me.

I meant my post on Clive Palmer to be "tongue-in-cheek."
Well you knocked it for a six and took it seriously
point by point. That I've got to respect.

Hats off to you - and well done!

Hi Foxy,

ttbn's definition of conservatism, racists, shonky and a f'wit, its the closest thing he can find.

Do the Mean Girls outdo the Mean Boys, you know the ones, a cabinet minister accused of raping a 16 year old girl, others bonking their staff, still others name calling and a party member accused of raping another party member. All on ScumO' watch.

Pauliar,

How about the two Green party paedophiles? Or the homophobic and racist Green Councillor. What about the Labor MP convicted of raping a 12-year-old? Or the MP shorten raping an intern?

That the Labor Wierd sisters could be absolute bitches to one of their own is no surprise.

Is it true that Greens are not allowed within 50m of schools?

I don't think that finger-pointing achieves anything
productive. It lowers the standard of discussions and
debates. And is part of the reasons why people leave.
Surely we all can do better by respecting each others
opinions, lifting our game and learning from each other
instead.

I think that a pedogreen is not only racist but should be kept away from schools.

shadowminister,

You really need to stop defining yourself with
comments like those.

Kudos ttbn, Shadow Minister.

The left like to take Saul Alinsky's Rules For Radicals advise and use ridicule to discredit- the public sadly often like a good scandal- and the number of MAP Greenies that are fan's of Plato's Symposium are perhaps several- so serve as good ammunition. Sadly the electorate needs to obtain greater understanding in order to protect it's own interest- but admittedly over time forces have progressively dis-empowered them from their natural traditionalist rights. In combat if you're so prudish that you refuse to pick up the weapon- you'll only die- Traditionalist forces need to use the weapons that come to hand and develop command and control systems.

It has been said- use conventional means to confront the enemy but win by deception.

Foxy and others are happy to use these weapons when they serve their cause.

Kudos ttbn, Shadow Minister.

CM

Yes. It is great pity that conservatives think that their naturally cultured and gentlemany/ladylike demeanour will work on the lefty barbarians.

I think we had some of the same type when I was at uni, the second time. I was a bit older than most students, having come back to finish the degree I had started before running off to sea to fly Sea Venoms off HMAS Melbourne, so was more spectator than participant.

There was real antipathy between the hard science students & the soft stuff, which was where most of the young Labor lot lived. There were female members, but it was often unisex as the ladies appeared to make themselves as unfeminine as possible. Some you could tell as they effected labourers type singlets, making it very obvious they did not shave their armpits. This it was believed to thumb their noses at more polite society.

Graham deleted a post of mine years ago when I refereed to these ladies by the nick name the science lot had given them. They were referred to as the "hairy armpit brigade" generally by many of the students. They were part of the Labor element of the time, who were very anti polite society.

I guess they went on to be political staffers, or academics, if they got their degree.

I wonder if Graham will delete this one with my explanation of the fact.

SM
Lying? So what else did the ABC say?

The evidence was a 31 page dossier and a supporting transcript of an interview from another person.
https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/services/access-to-files-and-transcripts/online-files/dyer-v-chrysanthou/Exhibit-1-redacted-as-at-12-July-2021.pdf

A formal complaint was indeed submitted but withdrawn before the woman committed suicide, so like Kitching we will never know the whole story.

Other documentation submitted by the ABC was subsequently blocked from public disclosure by Porter - the action of an innocent person with nothing to hide?

https://www.andrewwilliamslawyer.com.au/christian-porter-vs-abc-defamation-case.html

Hi Foxy,

SM can't help himself, as another poster once commented; "The bloke has an unhealthy fixation with paedophilia." Being a self claimed legal eagle he may well be Gerry Ridsdales defence lawyer.

Hi Paul,

Growing up I was taught - "Always be a lady, no matter
where you are, for as a lady you'll obtain much and travel far."
I went to an all girls high school. My parents stressed the
importance of education to me. I didn't know any "hairy armpit"
females. I never burned my bra nor fought for my "rights."
I achieved what I did through sheer hard work and with the help
of people who believed in me. My parents, husband and family.

I find it odd from some of the commentary on this forum how
some people define themselves in terms of what they oppose.
Is that a "conservative" thing?

Foxy,

I believe that you are certainly a social conservative, who had a conservative background and raising. Good for you. Forget the politics. Our new SA premier, despite his politics, is a social conservative, and he is also described as of the Right faction of Labor. He is already looking heaps better than his predecessor who was of the Left faction of the Liberal party. I think that the downfall of what used to be thought of as a conservative party, and the arrival of a more centrist Labor party here, shows us that loyalty to political brands is a thing of the past. Unfortunately, that doesn't yet apply to the other states, and certainly not federally.

ttbn,

Thank you for your kind words. I come from a traditionally
Liberal voting family who firmly believed in Liberal
values - especially personal responsibility.

As John Gorton once said; "I am not a conservative, I am a liberal." Many Liberal members today can be defined as social progressives and economic conservatives. Not surprisingly in the face of crises, the Liberal Party and most of its supporter base, will quickly ditch their mantra of economic rationalism in favour of economic pragmatism.

Rache,

You were lying because the ABC discussed the contents of the letter as well.

Secondly, other than the ramblings of a psychotic and delusional woman, there is not a scrap of evidence against Porter. Not a jot of physical evidence, no complaint, absolutely bugger all.

There was far more evidence against Shorten who never stood down.

"It’s a curious thing to watch something unravel. To watch, as if in time-lapse photography, a crack traverse the full length of a wall in what feels like the blink of an eye.

It is equally odd to watch men obfuscate as they attempt to defend the indefensible, and women declare themselves complicit by their silence.

Federal Labor is self-immolating as it tries to deflect serious and growing allegations of bullying and intimidation – specific allegations and those against the party and its culture more broadly. Labor, which has traded heavily on being the only party in which all women are safe, valued and championed, is unravelling as it attempts to avoid accountability.

This is no longer about a singular set of allegations made by a woman sadly departed.

The revelations about how Victorian senator Kimberley Kitching was treated by her own came not only following her death but also in the wake of damning and brave allegations by Victorian MP Kaushaliya Vaghela. Most recently, former MP for the federal western Sydney seat of Lindsay Emma Husar detailed similar experiences, claiming to have been on the receiving end of toxic, unchallenged bullying within federal Labor. I suspect there will be more. Courage fuels courage."

shadowminister,

Bullying claims by female Liberal
MPs have been routinely dismissed by colleagues and
have been painted as "the cost of doing politics."
It's been painted as just something
that happens to men just as much.

Julia Banks, Julie Bishop, Linda Reynolds, Lucy Gichuhi are
just some of the Liberal MPs who've tried to raise issues
within their party. Liberal male politicians routinely
talk about the "pressures" of politics - often using
phrases like "robust discussion."

Things do need to change - especially with more women entering
this male dominated space.

shadowminister,

Talking about courage fuelling courage:

http://bbc.com/news/world-australia-48197145

Keneally has had the absolute gall to "honour" Kimberly Kitching in parliament. Sickening!

Foxy,

What we see is Labor's moral high ground crumbling beneath them. Albozo's denial and refusal to investigate the bleeding obvious has shown that Labor's standards of decency apply only to their opposition.

As for Labor's women, the term "mean girls" will follow them for the rest of their political careers.

shadowminister,

To paraphrase Salman Rushdie:

"Obviously, a rigid, blinkered, absolutist political
view such as yours is the easiest to keep hold of."

Foxy,

Pot kettle.

Long serving NSW LIBERAL Senator Concetta Fierravanti-Wells has said; "In my public life, I have met ruthless people. Morrison tops the list...Morrison is not interested in rules-based order. It is his way or the highway. An autocrat, a bully who has no moral compass.”

shadowminister,

Glass houses - stones.

Dear Paul,

I believe that the Senator has been dumped from the
NSW Coalition's Senate ticket. She's obviously got
an axe to grind.

Hi Foxy,

And so she should have. If like in the Greens it was a grass roots rank and file vote, she would have rompted into the top slot. MORRISON is as she described him.

Foxy,

After a year-long song and dance about bullying by the coalition, now that the Labor party has been exposed as being just as bad, Albozo and Labor are running for cover and the left whinge ABC, SMH and Guardian are doing their best to pretend that nothing happened.

However, Labor's failure to deal with the problem will continue damaging them until they actually do something.

shadowminister,

I don't agree with you at all.

Most people have already made up their minds who
they're voting for. And watching the Shane Warne
Memorial last night - made me realize just how
lucky we really are in this country. We have
little to complain about compared to some other
countries. We should concentrate more on our
real strengths rather than nit-picking and
trying to demean each other. All the symptomns
that only losers take part in.

We are in a bit of a cleft stick aren't we?

The last thing we need is a dill like Albo in the lodge, but if he loses we will probably end up with one of these horrors leading Labor. Law of averages says the Libs must lose soon, so we could have one of them as PM. Bet Gillard is hoping for this, it would get her off the list as the worst, nastiest, most vicious PM ever.

Foxy,

You were happy to be one of the nitpicking losers (to use your words) when the focus was on the coalition. And while this might not have a huge effect on the elections, Albozo and his party of clowns and mean girls have been exposed as abusive hypocrites and are noticeably running for cover.

This is not going away.

Even the pin up gal of the far right, Pauline Hanson has described Morrison as a bully! Its not a case of where there's smoke there's fire, with Morrison his bulling is a raging inferno.

shadowminister,

It's already gone away.

People are sick of all this finger-pointing.

Foxy,

I still see plenty of commentary. Take out your earplugs.

shadowminister,

You need to broaden who you're listening to.

Foxy,

I have a broad range of people I listen to. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

shadowminister,

Listening is not enough.
Understanding also helps.
Try it.

SM does indeed have a broad range of people he listens to, there's Daddy Rupert, Mummy Rupert, Brother Rupert, Sister Rupert, Uncle Rupert, Aunty Rupert and Cussy Rupert. Foxy, how many Rupert's can SM listen to? After all, they all have the same opinion, LABOR bad, LIBERAL good.

SM, still got that 5 cent a month sub to Rupert's Gutter Press?

Foxy,

I do understand, and coming from someone who claimed that the police had cleared Shorten is a little rich.

Pauliar,

Considering your overwhelming ignorance of pretty much anything it would appear that your only reading material is from Pravda and Mao's little red book when you were a fwit communist.

shadowminister,

I'm not going to argue with you.
I have too much respect because of your stance on Putin and
the Ukraine. It appears that there are so many things that
we can and do agree on. What we disagree on - we'll just
have to let it be and move on.

I've just received a text from my brother. His son has
caught COVID - and has been rushed to hospital. The poor
kid has been living with diabetes all of his life (insulin
injections) and also has something called "Addison's disease."
His immune system was poor - and now he's caught COVID.
So I've got lots to worry about at the moment. They live in
Port Macquarie - which makes it even harder for us.

Take care.

You do good work shadowminister. Kudos.

Hi Foxy,

How's your nephew doing? All's well I hope. My son the Sydney bus driver and his family, are isolating with mild covid this week. All okay he tells me.

Hi Paul,

Thank You for asking. We've been worried sick.
However - good news. He's been stabilized and
has now been sent home to recoup. I prayed and
prayed for him. But all's well. His wife is a
nurse - so he's a lucky man. Plus he has plenty
of family support. My brother and his family lives
nearby.

I hope that you guys are doing all right as well.

Keep us posted.