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Australia

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364,000 different pharmaceuticals are manufactured in China. Many of these products are no longer made in the West because the Chinese products are cheaper.

These medicines are vital - life or death in many cases, and a decent or more comfortable and pain-free existence in many others.

What the hell have we done! Communist China uses trade as a weapon in its 'grey' war. Does anyone seriously think essential drugs wouldn't be cut off if it suited the Red Emperor? It's a certainty that they would be in a real war.

Our biggest supplier of pharmaceuticals - the US - sources most of its active ingredients from China. 95% of the US imports of ibuprofen and 40%-45% of its penicillin comes from China. Officials there have for some time been concerned that if China cut off its supply of drugs it could lead to a public health crisis. China has a 'chokehold' on supply, which could be used as an economic weapon to exploit the health armed forces and the public.

I wonder if the Morrison government or the ALP have any thoughts at all on this matter leading up to an election. It appears that Australia is not taking any measures at this time. Strategic policy expert Air-Vice Marshall John Blackburn, says that Australia’s attitude is "basically dumb".
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 28 January 2022 8:03:56 AM
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The title was 'Australia Basically Dumb On China's Medicine Chokehold'. Gremlins.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 28 January 2022 9:58:35 AM
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It would make next to no difference to the general population nor the national economy if imports into Australia of pharmaceuticals was stopped. That's because at any given time there is a very small minority of the population for which "these medicines are vital - life or death in many cases"*. Even if you consider the people who take medications which are not immediately essential for continued life (eg: cholesterol tablets) it is still a small minority.

If ttbn wants to be worried about supply chains that China could disrupt and consequently cause major economic damage (not just to us but even globally) than he could write about China taking near complete control the computer chip supply by invading Taiwan. China's mainland companies plus Taiwan's account for the majority of the fabrication of advanced chips sold in the world. And if you control this then you can inflict major economic damage world-wide because chips are a fundamental component of many essential modern products.
We are currently experiencing an powerful example of disruptions to stable chip supply impacting other industries. The current supply has been impacted due to the Corona virus. And consequently many car manufactures are currently have production problems due to these shortages since modern cars have many chips in them.

*: indeed theoretically, in an Machiavellian way, the economy might even improve if these medications were stopped. Because the consumers for which pharmaceuticals are vital for continuing life are typically the non-productive elderly and/or the extremely sick, who usually are more of an economic burden than not.
Posted by thinkabit, Friday, 28 January 2022 11:01:27 AM
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We definitely need an assessment of the current
situation and a preparedness by government to
spend more in areas such as manufacturing,
Research and development and investing in a
skilled workforce.

This should happen even if it makes medicines more
expensive because the singular force on keeping
medicines as cheap as possible comes at the expense
of a guarantee of supply.

If we don't ask what the lowest cost really means to
our national resilience then we're going to have
serious problems as a society.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 28 January 2022 12:14:09 PM
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Thinkabit,

What is the size of this "small minority"? More baby boomers than currently are would be dropping like flies without vital medication. New born babies are suffering from new ailments that weren't heard of in my time. You don't care about older people who are still loved and of use to society, of course. But, I would like to hear what size your "small minority" is; what your definition of a small minority is.

And, my post is only about pharmaceuticals - not computer chips, which, if that is your bag, you are welcome to post on anytime you want
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 28 January 2022 1:05:15 PM
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This is really disturbing stuff.
Both my husband and I rely heavily on our
medications. I take more tablets than he does.
And if my supply was to run out - the health risks
to me would be a matter of life and death.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 28 January 2022 2:27:47 PM
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Foxy, to you personally it might be really disturbing due to your individual circumstances, but to the whole of society it wouldn't change much if China stopped exporting pharmaceuticals. It certainly wouldn't be the end of the civilized life in Australia scenario that ttbn is trying to paint. And that's because the vast, vast majority of people in Australia don't require medicines to stay alive day to day. I'd except it to be, at most, in the low 10,000's. And for those that do require vital drugs, in most cases Australia could source an emergency supply from other countries' stocks. Or in other words, 99.999+% of the population would still be with us next week if China's supply of pharmaceuticals to us was stopped immediately.
Indeed, the number of Australian's who would die within 6 months if China's supply was stopped would still be very, very low. And by this time we would have re-arranged our own production and import supply lines. When it comes to medicines China's not the only game in town. Many countries (including our own) have the capacity to produce drugs. India, for example, is another major supplier of the world's drugs.

Another point that should be made: is that playing political games with the supply of life saving medicines/equipment is considered a definite no-no on the international stage. I would be very surprised if China would stoop low enough to do this in a major way (contrary to what ttbn claims): it's something that nearly all countries wouldn't do. Even during wars that pose a real existential threat to a whole country (for example, recent and current ones involving F'ed-up backwards countries in the Middle East or Africa), combatants permit the flow of life saving medicines.
Posted by thinkabit, Friday, 28 January 2022 4:29:12 PM
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Thinknotabit,

So 99.999+% of Australians don't need important medication. You are even more off the planet than usual. You know nothing. How old are you? 12?
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 28 January 2022 5:26:44 PM
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Take one look at the political and economic games the West is playing with Covid vaccines. Oversupply to rich developed countries while denying vaccines to the poor of the third world, very much run with a user pay mentality. Fortunately for the Chinese they were able to develop the Sinovac vaccine, otherwise a gun would be held to their heads. US sanctions against the innocent people of Cuba, has seem many die because vital drug supplies have been denied.

Is there a message from this thread that says China can do it better and more efficiently under Communism than the Capatalist West? Australia can't even manufacture band-aids.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 28 January 2022 5:42:37 PM
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Some on the extreme Left work hard to pretend that the West is worse than Communists China.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 28 January 2022 5:50:11 PM
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ttbn: "So 99.999+% of Australians don't need important medication."

Ok ttbn, so once again you've given us a perfect display of the limits of your comprehension and logical reasoning skills. I never said that 99.999+ of Australians don't need important medication. I said: "99.999+% of the population would still be with us next week if China's supply of pharmaceuticals to us was stopped immediately."

Almost all people on medication can skip/forget a day or two without dying. The number of people who require daily drugs to keep them alive for the next day, is a minute minority. In my post said at most low 10,000's across Australia.

However, almost none of these daily dependent people would die, in the next few days (ie: by the start of next week), if the Chinese were to stop exports to us immediately. The reason being that we would have enough immediate supply on hand in our own pharmacies/supply reserves for most people (indeed most of these people would have a limited reserve at home already since you typical buy medications in multi-serve packs not single serves). And, as previously explained, we could quickly arrange to import emergency supplies from other countries' stockpiles. Indeed, I would imagine that within hours of the startling news of China banning exports to us offers of help from friendly countries would arrive. And that's why 99.999+ would still be alive next week if China were to ban pharmaceutical exports to Australia today.

In addition,, such an policy from China would be instant world-wide headlines and most governments (even ones that are not traditionally allied/aligned with us) would take serious notice. Countries would immediately realise that such a extraordinary, out-of-the-blue, policy could be applied to them. And as a longer term consequence, production of critical pharmaceuticals would ramp up across the globe, outside of China, as a result of countries losing faith in their Chinese supply chain.
Posted by thinkabit, Friday, 28 January 2022 9:57:47 PM
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T.a.b ,

You really are a piece of work: juvenile and ignorant.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 28 January 2022 10:02:44 PM
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Thinkabit,
I'm an oldish Aussie who works fulltime and am a net taxpayer (if you've got kids I'm helping pay for you), I rely on my meds for which I pay a motza, you'll be old too one day and every one will eventually need a Dr and a pharmacy, I'm at a loss that some one could be so uncaring, you must be young and know everything!
Posted by FireballXL5, Friday, 28 January 2022 10:58:05 PM
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the West is worse than Communists China.
ttbn,
Sadly, in too many instances this is correct !
Posted by individual, Saturday, 29 January 2022 4:38:44 AM
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.. at a loss that some one could be so uncaring,
FireballXL5,
Same here and, these are the people who drag up two centuries past on how badly people were treated by those who were treated just as bad & in many cases even worse.
How many times are old age pensioners accused of being on welfare when they've contributed during their whole 52 plus working years. Yet, these kids & many on the public payroll who don't even know yet what a job is, accuse old people to be welfare recipients which they're not !
They're investors who now exist on the dividends.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 29 January 2022 4:32:14 PM
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Well then FireballXL5 sad to hear about your aliment, but on the positive side my previous posts should leave you feeling relieved from any consternation that our resident chicken-little (ie: ttbn) may have caused. Because if you read my posts carefully, what I'm saying is that you will almost certainly survive if China blocks supply to us. This is because (for the third time):
1) Unless you have an extremely exotic ailment, you probably won't die if you skip your meds for a short time. And it would only be a matter of days before any dip in supply was corrected as explained in points below.
2) You will most likely already have a few weeks supply on hand at home because people don't buy the tablets each and every day*, but rather they buy a bottle/packs worth.
3) The pharmacy you use will have a small reserve of supply on hand. They normally have a small buffer of stock to cover the supply bumps between it and their distributor.
4) The non-Chinese based component of the supply chain will have a reserve of stock on hand (eg: importing businesses in Australia, they have to keep a enough supply on hand to cover between shipping arrivals)
5) The Government would have emergency stocks for common critical drugs. In general the government has secret warehouses dotted around the country where they store stuff for various potential emergencies like this.
6) Almost immediately, other friendly-to-us countries (such as the UK, USA, EU, Japan, New Zealand, Canada, India, etc.) would offer us help to deal with the problem. They would let us have emergency access to their own supplies and/or increase their own production for our benefit. Friend countries helping each other like this in times of crisis is very common.

-- continued below --
Posted by thinkabit, Saturday, 29 January 2022 7:36:56 PM
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-- from above --

For example, just days ago to Tonga we sent and are continuing to send medical and food aid to help them deal with their volcano crisis. Or another example, if you remember back to the wine import ban/tariffs that China slapped on Australia in 2020, many of our friends offered support by promoting Australian wine to their own citizens.

7) China is not the only show in town when it comes to manufacturing drugs. Many other countries can make drugs (us included). Some of them, like India (which is a friendly country for us and as a bonus not at all the best of pals with China), are major players in world production. These countries will ramp up production to cover for China's decreased supply.

But besides all this, I should mention again: contrary to what the ttbn claims, it is extremely unlikely that China would use the restriction of drug supply as a tactic in ttbn's "grey war" between us and them. Countries just don't do this sort of thing when it concerns medicines. Denying medical aid is an unforgivable sin, not even combatants in barbaric Middle East conflicts do this. If China ever did this, they will be denounced by almost every other country on the planet and immediately become an international pariah.

Oh, by-the-way: I myself am a middle aged self funded retiree, and at a blind guess I would say that I've paid *way* more tax than you (as an example of just how much tax I've paid in my life, over the last two years alone I've paid more than two million**).

[* well there might be some extremely weird disease out that requires fresh daily made compounds, but I've never heard of such a thing.]
[** admittedly my recent tax bills have been very high because I've done hansomely out of the Covid crisis. Normally it's more like $300,000 to $600,000 each year]
Posted by thinkabit, Saturday, 29 January 2022 7:42:51 PM
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Oops, "aliment' above should obviously be "ailment".
Posted by thinkabit, Saturday, 29 January 2022 7:45:28 PM
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The United States is the power that uses economic sanctions against small countries. For 50 years the US has withheld vital medical supplies from the innocent sick people of Cuba, resulting in many innocent people dying. Despite UN resolutions every year since 1992 to stop this murderous act, the US continues to do so. Not only is Cuba a target of US sanctions, but many other countries as well. The the line or Australia might be next!
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 29 January 2022 7:59:18 PM
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TAB

How dare you misspell a word, forum terd and resident Old Fart will put you in the naughty boys corner, BTW that's the same egg who can't put a title on a thread, this one, for the second time. Once is a mistake, twice you're a goose. People in glass houses...
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 29 January 2022 8:21:53 PM
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The lack of interest in the precarious situation of our pharmaceutical supplies (four of us) with one ignorant idiot in denial and another one merely tagging along to exercise his nasty personality, it is no wonder Australia is rooted.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 30 January 2022 7:19:00 AM
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The ignorant idiot in denial claims that he is 'middle aged', which on current life expectancy of 83 puts him around 41 years old, and a 'self funded retiree'. Not a person to be taken seriously.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 30 January 2022 7:25:26 AM
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ttbn, I only respond to your nastiness. You like to dish it out, then play the victim when its thrown back at you. Like most Conservatives you think you are a cut above. At one time you seemed to think you ran this Forum, wanting to say what was acceptable, and what was not.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 30 January 2022 8:02:42 AM
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It's kind of you to admit that you are the poster with the nasty personality.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 30 January 2022 8:11:55 AM
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ttbn, don't have to be EINSTEIN to work it out who you are talking about, given the very limited number of respondents on this thread.

You once claimed ttbn, stood for Try To Be Nice, you've failed on that one, but who cares. TAB put up their opinion, and you personally attacked them. Of course you think as a cut above type, you have that right.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 30 January 2022 9:00:41 AM
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I'm certainly a cut above you, but then just about everybody is.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 30 January 2022 11:16:15 AM
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ttbn, I'll let you have the last say if it makes you feel superior.

Keep safe and prosper.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 30 January 2022 11:39:29 AM
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China produces the majority of these low-cost patent-free drugs because they can make them cheaper than anyone else. However, if they stopped supply they can easily be made pretty much anywhere else.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 6:45:13 AM
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SM,

Would that include Australia, considering we can't even manufacture band-aids in this country.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 6:58:45 AM
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Paul,

We can make just about anything, but only an idiot would suggest we make stuff that we can buy cheaper from overseas. That goes for band-aids and for cars.

If we can't import it cheaply then it is worth making here.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 7:11:37 AM
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I don't think that we should stop making things here because we can import them more cheaply. What about pride, employing Australians (not as slave labour like the CCP) - the things we used to do before our politicians and carpetbaggers brought Communist China into WTO. There is not a huge difference between the local and Chinese prices, and Australian made us better, and not made by slave labour in dangerous conditions. Do-gooders rubbishing their own people and pretending they are concerned about other races and cultures (e.g Paul 1405) conveniently overlook the appalling treatment and conditions suffered in places like China.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 8:13:19 AM
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SM,

Using my band-aids example, yes the price of the product coming from China, may be a little lower, but the quality is a whole lot lower.

ttbn, no wonder we clash, you continually misrepresent my position. Sustainable manufacturing where possible should be an Australian objective.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 9:24:57 AM
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Paul,

You are misrepresenting yourself. I don’t recall you ever being for "Sustainable manufacturing where possible". And when people of your ilk use the word sustainable, you mean the elitist "sustainability" that vitiates, or reverses, the meaning of words to which it is attached. Thus ‘sustainable’ manufacturing is DEVELOPMENT RETARDED BY TOP-DOWN CONTROL. Commitment to sustainability is now mouthed by every politician, bureaucrat, marketing executive, media hack, and Left-wing ratbag - as you have just proved.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 10:47:51 AM
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I don't think that we should stop making things here because we can import them more cheaply.
ttbn,
Labor supporting Unions & workers & salary earners in general would need to agree on a wages/salaries/welfare/insurance premium freeze etc. for this.
It could easily be done if people curbed their excesses by not demanding any increases which would or rather should result in prices being frozen also.
This perpetual dog chasing its tail stupidity pay rise followed by price hikes needs to stop asap.
Only then can we hope to get manufacturing back to this Nation. Living standars would actually improve but unfortunately, the 'growth' morons will never understand that.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 1:35:49 PM
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We pay too much for everything in Australia. Wages might have sometimes to do with it - so we are chasing our own tails - but think greedy company owners, directors and shareholders have something to do with it too.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 6:39:41 PM
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ttbn,
In my opinion they're all in this together !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 9:08:31 PM
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individual,

Yes, in the same vein as 80% of Australians are together in the general trashing of Australia even if they do it just through complacency. There's a lot said about climate deniers, but the real problem is reality deniers.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 10:19:28 PM
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the general trashing of Australia even if they do it just through complacency.
ttbn,
Accurate analysis but I'm inclined to think that generally, lack of patience in the quest for money is the great hurdle that is the cause of the progressive regress in just about everything society here. There unfortunately, doesn't appear to be any focus on anything long term in the Australian psyche at this time.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 11:21:00 PM
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With unemployment sitting at a record low of 4.2%, new manufacturing facilities now would have to pinch manpower from someone else. Making something that is already made cheaper elsewhere is really stupid.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 2 February 2022 9:50:22 AM
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Greed, accoring to my local social page, local chemists shops have been overrun by the aged welfare mob demanding free RAT's. Not that they have symptoms of Covid or anything like that, but they just want 5 free tests on their welfare card. Until the tests become free they had no interest in them. Just like the way the same mob stockpile cheap drugs on the PBS.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 2 February 2022 11:22:24 AM
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How on earth do they manage to stockpile drugs on the PBS Paul? You are only eligible to get a repeat script 21 days after the last dispensing on that script.

Do you have some secret formula?
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 2 February 2022 12:42:59 PM
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Simple Hassy,

Every 21 days they get 28 days supply @ $5.80 with a big taxpayer subsidy. With 5 repeats on a script after 12 weeks they have an extra box. Before you know it they are on the free list, not even paying the miserable $5.80.

Hassy, have you got your 5 free RAT's you don't need, while the rest of us, the taxpayers who subsidise the rip off can't get a test for love or money.

For those attacking workers pay, how about we cut the bloated aged welfare payment by fifty percent for starters. Won't be in that. Bring on SENIORS NATIONAL SERVICE I say.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 2 February 2022 2:32:19 PM
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I have no intention of depriving you of the RATs you so obviously desire Paul.

I reckon I'll know if I catch the thing when my smell & taste goes. Don't need a swab for that.

I will then take the Ivomectin I have been forced to go to considerable effort & expense to acquire, by the unconscionable action of our government. May they rot in hell with the greens & Labor.

If you catch it, let me know, I have enough to treat a few, if the need arises.

It may not help me. I have a much weakened lungs after 3 heart attacks. For interest for any with a breathing problem. My lady has had bad asthma all her. She has develop[ed a problem with Ventolin, & has switched to low strength Colloidal silver in water in her Nebuliser.

She convinced me to try it, & it has dramatically improved my oxygen absorbance. No drugs, no cost to the taxpayer & a good result.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 2 February 2022 10:13:41 PM
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It would appear that Paul is overly familiar with rorting the welfare system.
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 3 February 2022 3:44:54 AM
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SM,

Not so, was reading on my local social page, someone wanting RAT but unable to get one. Also neighbour works in local chemist, said she has been driven mad since Rat's become free on pension card by the elderly wanting free tests. When asked, do you have symptoms, most say no, just want the tests. The script thing is well known, it was repeat every two weeks, now three.

Old Les in Newtown, lived to 98. I used to call and check on him from time to time. The top of his fridge was just covered with bottles and packets of pill, many out of date. Led was a classic case of over subscribed, he didn't have a clue what half of the medication was for.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 3 February 2022 5:33:14 AM
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Judging millions by using a handful of examples is not what one would describe as a realistic assertion !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 3 February 2022 7:04:09 AM
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Indy,

Is that what you do with the small number of Aboriginal people up your way. Judge the whole race accross Australia by the actions of a few.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 3 February 2022 7:16:44 AM
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Paul,

Sure, I believe you!
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 3 February 2022 3:48:40 PM
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If you have a problem with over subscription Paul, I suggest you take it up with the doctors, not blame the pensioners you so much hate.

You can also blame them, the government & the media for the wholesale scare campaign which has so many, including some pensioners, so frightened of Covid.

You can't tell people for a couple of years that Covid is going to kill them if they don't get vaccinated without making many frightened. Then when they start to realise that the vaccination will not protect most of us, of course they want the test kits.

This government is now so green that it is succumb to the green disease of unintended consequences, thus the peoples desire to have test kits, as if that will save them.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 3 February 2022 4:02:07 PM
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SM, don't bother me one way or the other, if you do, or if you don't.

Hassy, get vaxxed, get a booster. Give yourself a fighting chance.

Come, come Indy, you condemn ALL Aboriginals based on your limited knowledge of local negativity.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 3 February 2022 4:36:38 PM
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Beats me how our resident crap stirrer managed to involve Aboriginal people in my post when nothing was further from my mind ??
Posted by individual, Thursday, 3 February 2022 7:54:04 PM
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Two of the reasons we pay too much for drugs in Australia are -

1. In accordance with our Free Trade Agreement with the USA, the length of patents for US Pharmaceuticals has been extended so we continue to pay the full amount instead of sourcing from other countries and

2. Pharma companies are among the largest donors to political parties so there is an incentive to help such companies maximise their profits.

While we pay $75 for a bottle of a certain drug still protected under patent plus propped up by political favours, it can be often produced and sold in India (and even Cuba) for as little as $5.


Meanwhile Government arrangements with COVID testing companies has allowed them charge up to twenty times for each test but now the infection rate has them overwhelmed. They were able to bulk test 10 samples at a time but if that batch showed a positive result they would need to retest each sample individually. While infection rates are low it's quite efficient (and profitable) but when infection rates hit 5% every second batch needs to be retested. When it's at 10% every sample has be be tested individually and the process becomes physically impossible with the resources we have in this country.

RATS kits are far cheaper than PCR tests and "free for the taxpayer" if consumers have to pay for them.
Posted by rache, Friday, 4 February 2022 12:10:44 AM
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Indy,

I'm sure there are two things that are never far from your mind, what to do about those pesky Aboriginals, and what more can I get free from aged welfare.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 4 February 2022 6:18:33 AM
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Whoever gets into Australian Govt next should really address the problem of crap stirring hangers-on anarchists !
Posted by individual, Friday, 4 February 2022 9:51:19 AM
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individual: "Whoever gets into Australian Govt next should really address the problem of crap stirring hangers-on anarchists !"

So individual I take it that you're a big defender of free speech then?
(I case you don't realise it, I'm being sarcastic here)

Free speech is a great part of bedrock of a democracy. Out of all the rights that people claim we need for a functioning free society free speech is right up there near the top.

Personally for me while Paul1405's opinions and mine, on many matters, fall on opposite sides of the political fence I find many of them to be quite witty and entertaining. I would never try to stop him expressing his opinion as long as it isn't obviously a direct attempt to invoke violence/harm. I would (and have) challenge him if I strongly disagree with him either from a factual position or from a personal moral stance, but I wouldn't call on the government to prevent him from speaking.
Posted by thinkabit, Friday, 4 February 2022 10:27:25 AM
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thinkabit,
You're confusing free speech with anarchistic verbal diarrhoea !
Posted by individual, Friday, 4 February 2022 12:25:02 PM
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in the above:
"I find many of them to be quite witty and entertaining"
should actually be
"I find many of his posts to be quite witty and entertaining"
Posted by thinkabit, Friday, 4 February 2022 1:04:11 PM
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Tab,

Hitler never attempted to stop free speech,In fact he was very big on free speech, he spoke freely all the time, he just put a stop to crap stirring hangers-on anarchists, like children, old folk etc the list was quite extensive. The fact he had to deal with millions of these crap stirring hangers-on anarchists shows what a hidden problem they really were! Indy would be proud!
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 4 February 2022 2:42:04 PM
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And there we have a perfect example of Paul's wit and intelligence that I'm talking about. His posts are a way better read than the boring crap that I write. Good work Paul, keep it up! :)
Posted by thinkabit, Friday, 4 February 2022 3:29:54 PM
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Pauliar,

More bollocks as usual. Hitler and Stalin both happy executed those that got too involved in "free speech" critical of the Nazis or Communists respectively.
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 4 February 2022 3:45:45 PM
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Tab,

Being serious for a moment.

There is always a danger the "good folk" will accept extremism as necessary, especially if the extremist is pandering to pre-existing fears and hates, and peddling a simple message of its all for the good of the majority.

I have been somewhat concerned about the impact of regulations on our civil liberties during the Covid pandemic, put in place by our politicians as necessary for the common good. I am reasonably confident the restrictions are there for no sinister reasons of control, but are for the common good, and will be removed in time. These restrictions have been put in place by moderate politicians from both sides of politics, it's when the extremists starts to impose restrictions for the common good that I get concerned.

What's your take.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 4 February 2022 3:55:47 PM
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What's your take.

I'm going to get my eyes checked tomorrow just to be sure I read correctly !
Posted by individual, Friday, 4 February 2022 8:24:54 PM
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Paul,

Is that why the greens are anti-semitic?
Posted by shadowminister, Saturday, 5 February 2022 3:33:59 AM
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Indy, I'm not surprised you want government to "address" the "problem" of crap stirring hangers-on anarchists. That can only be done by imprisonment or at the point of a gun in the police state you so desire. Those you refer to are all who disagree with your way of thinking. Mussolini would be proud of you.

SM, if opposing genocide in the Middle East is anti-Semitic then I will have to agree, the Greens are anti-Semitic.
Its sickening to see the Zionists inflict simmilar war crimes on innocent Palestinian people, that were inflicted on innocent Jews by the NAZIS all those years ago.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 5 February 2022 5:19:51 AM
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I don't hate, simple ! I don't hate those who disagree with me either. What I am dead against is opportunism, misrepresentation, parasitism, inventing history, violence & straight-out greed !
That's my beef with the Left !
Posted by individual, Saturday, 5 February 2022 7:03:21 AM
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Indy,

You are in favour of a future rightwing regime "cleaning up" those leftwing undesirables. If not by imprisonment, or at the point of a gun, pray tell how? How far do these undesirables spread, I assume you mean anyone under that broad leftwing umbrella. Once on the slippery slope no one can tell how far it will go.

BTW, don't give me that I love my enermy crap, because you don't.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 5 February 2022 7:18:09 AM
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Does anyone think there's any point in arguing with integrity-devoid morons ?
Posted by individual, Saturday, 5 February 2022 8:48:21 AM
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individual,

As I said elsewhere, I have given up responding to certain people because it only makes them worse. These people think that this is On Line Argument, not On Line Opinion. Nobody, including us, is going to change his opinions just because someone else doesn’t like them. I scroll upwards now, checking poster ID first. I don't bother stopping with most of them. I know who agrees with me and who doesn't. I have my say, they have their say, but 'never the twain shall meet'.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 5 February 2022 9:49:08 AM
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Pauliar,

The greens have a shoddy record of opposing actual genocide in the Middle East outside of Israel yet focus on lying about Israel.

Comparing Jews to Nazis is clearly antisemitic as you clearly are.
Posted by shadowminister, Sunday, 6 February 2022 5:45:59 AM
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shonky,

Don't know why you are throwing that up on this thread, must be the drugs, but I'll answer you here anyway.

The actions of a minority of rabid Zionist through genocidal militarism towards innocent Palestinian people is in parallel with the genocidal actions of the Nazis towards Jews, and it is, makes me anti-Semitic, so be it. However I don't agree with you.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 6 February 2022 6:59:38 AM
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Pauliar,

Thanks for admitting that you are a rabid antisemite and racist.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 8 February 2022 6:58:20 AM
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shonky,

I'm not addmitting that at all. I know your comprehension leaves a lot to be desired, you said I was anti-Semitic, I said I didn't agree. If your support for genocide makes you a NAZI so be it.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 8 February 2022 7:19:08 AM
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Only a fwit antisemite/racist extreme left fanatic would compare Israeli treatment of the Arabs as genocide.

You are one so live with it.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 8 February 2022 7:24:13 AM
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shonky

If you'ar going to compare two things, its "TO" genocide, not "AS" genocide. Grammar.

As I said elsewhere and have told your mob before, PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES...
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 8 February 2022 9:21:02 AM
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Pauliar,

I'm so glad that you had an orgasm at my typo. Compared to the continuous stream of bad grammar and spelling that comes from you I can only laugh at your stupidity.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 8 February 2022 12:59:10 PM
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I heard about an octogenarian that recently couldn't get their diabetes medicine- the doctor can't proscribe more than two weeks of insulin apparently- apparently the script expired or something- and the chemist was closed because of a public holiday midweek- they spent their spouses birthday in a hospital waiting room to see the doctor because their paperwork wasn't in order. Very distressful for them. We shouldn't be treating octogenarians this way- I don't think that giving them four weeks at a time is unreasonable- it minimizes chemist and doctors costs by supplying in larger quantities- and reduces compliance stress for those with diabetes.

Hebrew psychologist Jennifer Freyd that invented the concept of DARVO (Deny/ Attack/ Reverse/ Victim/ and Offender) talks about toxic organizations (and institutions).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO
Posted by Canem Malum, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 7:35:55 AM
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While apparent communist Paul1405 laments "hate and fear" I'm sure that Paul1405 and Communists in general also use and express their own "hate and fear".

That's why everyone needs to be aware of the use of "hate and fear" on all sides- "hate and fear" are appropriate reactions at times.

"Hate and Fear" is used by everyone- with various nuance.

But to label Paul1405 as a hypocrite is hypocritical because everyone is- standard mud slinging.

Riding horses is fun- useful for plowing the fields- and can throw the mud for you.

Communists seem to enjoy accusing people of "being human"- then running away in the confusion
Posted by Canem Malum, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 7:55:43 AM
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CM,

As I said elsewhere Communists are like Bunyips, they don't actually exist in real-life. If I label myself, a miracle-worker, it doesn't make me Jesus. Some labels fit, others don't.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 8:23:14 AM
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CM

We certainly should not be treating octogenarians this way. But treating them this way includes keeping their miserable lives going. The two weeks supply only racket is probably down to the fact that an overdose of insulin is one way of topping yourself.

I'm not far off 80, and if diabetes was added to my woes, I would want out. My doctor has already made a fuss of my sugar level being 0.1% over "normal" after ONE blood test. Prior to any future blood tests I am going to be very careful of what I ingest to keep the good doc off my back. I've been told that there is money in diabetes for the health professions, and they won’t want that cut off by letting you die in peace.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 8:54:01 AM
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Talking about Octogenarians?

Here's a few sayings seen on t-shirts:

"I never dreamed that one day
I'd be the same age as old people
But here I am killing it!"

And -

"Just released my own fragrance
No one in the car seemed to like it!"

"I may be wrong
But it's highly unlikely!"

"POP
Because grandfather
Is for old guys!
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 9:31:38 AM
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Paul1405 said "Communists are like Bunyips, they don't actually exist in real-life"

Answer- well I guess the 100 Million dead under Communism jumped into the mass graves on their own- probably on account of the bunyips between their toes.
Posted by Canem Malum, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 6:18:48 PM
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CM, not being Australian you don't understand our culture, fair enough. You seem to be confusing a Bunyip with a Bunion, two different things.

I don't know of any Communist who murdered anyone. In fact, I've met a few people who have claimed to be Communist, but when tested they weren't Communist at all. A simple test of a Communist state, forgetting all the other perlarva; In such a state there is no need for money, can you name a modern state which didn't rely on money? Then I might concede they were
Communists. No prize if you say the USSR or China were Communist states. No prize if you say Stalin or Mao were Communists.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 7:06:14 PM
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Hi Foxy,

Is an octogenarian an octopus on oxygen?

Just asking, helping out the lads. They will all be fast asleep by now, Nursey turns lights out at 7 o'clock, down at The Shady Pines Retirement Home, a couple of Quick Doze and the lads are soon in La La Land. Up at 7 o'clock, a couple of No Doze from Nursey, and the lads are all set for a hard day of Parcheesi playing. It's a great life for some.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 10:19:57 PM
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Paul1405 said "I don't know of any Communist who murdered anyone. In fact, I've met a few people who have claimed to be Communist, but when tested they weren't Communist at all. A simple test of a Communist state, forgetting all the other perlarva; In such a state there is no need for money, can you name a modern state which didn't rely on money? Then I might concede they were Communists. No prize if you say the USSR or China were Communist states. No prize if you say Stalin or Mao were Communists."

Answer- Interesting rhetorical style- Paul1405 seems to have engineered a penalty/ reward system for the sole purpose of supporting his own particular ironic "love" fetish- Communism. Those that don't agree with his world view are seemingly mentally deficit- they didn't get the prize.

Communist Revisionism.
Posted by Canem Malum, Thursday, 10 February 2022 3:13:34 AM
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CM,

One of the main reasons for the collapse of the communist movement throughout the world was when it became apparent how many millions of people had to be murdered to maintain stability in the communist regimes.

The communist movements of today survive on a diet of amnesia and denial. Either the despotism in the USSR, China and North Korea were exaggerated or this simply wasn't real communism. That the economic model of communism was a complete failure didn't deter these idiots either.
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 10 February 2022 3:49:54 AM
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SM,

I don't often agree, but I go along with the above. Russia, China, NK they were desperate failures at the time of revolution, ripe for tyrannical despots to take over. They all survived on some sort of "cult of the leader". So called Communism can't survive if there is a substantive middle class, then private property becomes important. China has that problem today, they are a victim of their own success to much of a middle class.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 10 February 2022 6:02:34 AM
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Paul

The USSR, North Korea, Cuba and China communist societies were all tyrannies and economically inefficient.

In fact, there hasn't been a single communist society that has been a tyranny that hasn't impoverished its people.
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 10 February 2022 8:37:22 AM
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SM,

Those countries were impoverished to start with. China has done well enough starting from a low base with its sort of strange brand of capitalistic authoritarian socialism. We can only compare China with simmilar India, well whose done the better?
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 10 February 2022 9:13:36 AM
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Paul,

China's economy has improved dramatically when they effectively ditched socialism. Many workers work the 996 (9am to 9pm 6 days a week) and China's GINI index is higher than any capitalist OECD country.

China has no application of Labor laws, no unemployment pay, no pension, and little to no health care.
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 10 February 2022 1:59:17 PM
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SM,

In fairness, China has compulsory worker insurance. What can't be denied is the rapidly growing middle class, particularly in Chinese cities. Evidence of this is the growing Chinese tourism. Take 1949 as a base both China and India were economically at a very low ebb, today China is well ahead of India as for living standards. Mao was right for China in 1949, but he outlived his usefulness, he died at the right time.

Mao's crimes are legendary, and he should be forever condemned for them. Stalin was just as bad. You have to look at the internal conditions of these countries when the despots came to power.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 10 February 2022 3:10:09 PM
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Thanks ShadowMinister- "diet of amnesia and denial"

Answer- Great phrasing ShadowMinister. Kudos.

I think that it was Deng that brought in Chinese Communist Capitalism which has the particular feature of government repossession of private property upon questioning of the CCP
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 11 February 2022 9:59:51 AM
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Well said Paul.
Kudos!
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 11 February 2022 10:17:48 AM
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Paul,

You seem to be in a fantasy with respect to China. Recently you told me that there was no unemployment in China, now there is compulsory work insurance? I have no idea where you are getting your information but it is very flawed.

The unemployment fund is not compulsory and most small businesses do not pay it, and even it is paid claiming is a lengthy and difficult process and payouts are insufficient to live off and certainly don't cover even food and rent. If you were an IT manager and you are now delivering food so you can eat, you are no longer eligible for unemployment.

Given that the average after-tax income in urban China is about RMB 47000 p.a. or US$625 p.m the middle class as we know it is typically CCP party members.

A more accurate comparison is with Taiwan and South Korea that have vastly outstripped China in growth and prosperity.
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 11 February 2022 11:38:53 AM
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SM,

China has a number of work related compulsory insurance schemes, including those covering retirement, sickness, unemployment and injury. Of course you don't want to talk about the Capatalist worker hell that is India, where if a worker falls down a well he's left to rot with the carcasses of dead goats. BTW the average worker income in China is 5 times greater that that of India. As for Taiwan and South Korea, as American puppets they have seen trillions of Yankee dollars poured into their economies. End of story. Your claim that the millions of Chinese tourists traveling the world are simply rewarded members of the CCP is fanciful.

NB I'll repeat for you, at full employment there is always around 2% unemployed, transient workers, the unemployable etc, China is no different in that regard.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 12 February 2022 6:04:34 AM
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Thankyou Foxy,

And a double dose of kudos for you as well. May your cup of kudos runnith over. That's the problem with the world today, just not enough kudos to go around. The developed world has an oversupply of kudos, while the third world is crying out for more kudos.

BTW are you licenced on the Forum to give out kudos, I'll check with CM. I'm only licenced to give out Porky Awards, which I regularly give to Is Muse for telling the biggest porkies. BTW where is Issy, said something about off to South Africa to shoot more boars, maybe the Boers shot Issy. I'm sure there is some kudos some where in there to be had.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 12 February 2022 7:12:27 AM
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Hi Paul,

CM once described me as a "monarch" so I definitely am
licensed to grant kudos to the worthy. He's actually not.
But there you go.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 12 February 2022 11:50:30 AM
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Hi Foxy,

I may not have told you, but my Great Granduncle Thaddeus caught a very severe dose of Kudos 19 during the 1919 pandemic. Fortunately for Uncle Thaddeus the world renowned expert on Kudos, Professor Nincompoop, had developed a Kudos 19 vaccine, which was delivered to Uncle Thaddeus by a 2 gallon suppositery up his rear clackker. Side effects for Uncle were minimal, other that the fact he now takes meals through a straw inserted in his left ear, and the fact he can't stop flatulating whilst constantly humming Yankee Doodle Dandy, things are normal for Uncle.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 12 February 2022 2:02:15 PM
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Pauliar,

Once again you have bugger all backing for the stream of bollocks you are pulling from your arse.

In China, the "compulsory" unemployment benefits are essentially 1-month pay per year worked, which seems only to work for large companies, not the small companies that close leaving employees with nothing.

Similarly, the "legislated" workweek is 40hrs but is never enforced with most IT companies having a compulsory 72 hr work week.

"In December 2021, the surveyed unemployment rate in urban areas of China ranged at 5.1 per cent, slightly up from 5.0 per cent in the previous month. Due to the coronavirus COVID-19 pandemic, the surveyed unemployment rate had risen to 6.2 per cent in February 2020."

And this doesn't cover the underemployed with many graduates scraping by delivering food and goods.

The average income in China is about 2x that of India not 5x and China has also had $ trillions invested in its economy yet has an average income of 1/2 that of Taiwan or South Korea.

China has little to no free health care and little to no government pension
Posted by shadowminister, Sunday, 13 February 2022 6:46:52 AM
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shonky,

According to World Data, China's monthly average income is $879, India $160. That see the average Chinese earning 5.5 times the average Indian. Simmilar countries coming off a similar base. As for the rest of your post, mostly conjecture on your part, no hard evidence, just Yankee hearsay.

Pray tell what is social security like in India? Down the well with a dead goat.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 13 February 2022 7:40:30 AM
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Dear Paul,

You made me spill my coffee reading about your uncle!
Loved the story! You're a talented writer!
More please.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 13 February 2022 9:20:34 AM
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Ah yes Foxy,

Great Granduncle Thaddeus, Great Grandma's brother, twice removed, he came back both times! Yes Uncle Thaddeus is close to all our wallets, unfortunately.

We have been considering placing Uncle into the 'Shady Pines Retirement Home' where many of our Forum lads reside. I called in there just the other day to check the place out. Met Nursey, four foot six and three hundred pounds, such a sweet woman. I enquired about the meals at Shady Pines, Nursey said; "Those without teeth get a soft boiled coconut for breakfast, those with teeth get a hard boiled coconut. Lunch is a bowl of Gruel, with two big spoons of 'Relax-A-Max'. I said; "Why 'Relax-A-Max?"....Nursey said: "We don't want the inmates hyperventilating in the afternoons...They can do that in the mornings, saves on activities."..."Tonight's chop night" I said that sounds delicious"..."Yes" said Nursey; "Cookie chops up whatever he can catch in the kitchen...saves on pest control."
Nursey asked; "How old is this old fella..."109" I said..."Well he'll be in the Cemeterian Block". I said; " You mean the Centerian Block"...."Nah, the Cemeterian Block, its right next to the cemetery, we won't have far to cart the old bloke shortly"...I thought; "How thoughtful of Nursey".

Yes, Shady Pines Retirement Home looks perfect for Great Granduncle Thaddeus...AND ITS CHEAP!
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 13 February 2022 10:50:02 AM
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Pauliar,

For starters, the same website you quote shows China with a 5% unemployment rate which seems to match just about every other website and also what I quoted.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/indicators/india-placed-72nd-on-global-list-with-average-monthly-wage-of-rs-32800-report/articleshow/77806437.cms

"New Delhi: India has been ranked a lowly 72nd among 106 countries in terms of the average wage per month, while Switzerland topped the chart, according to a global ranking of average wages prepared by Picodi.com. With an average monthly wage of Rs 32,800 (USD 437),"
Posted by shadowminister, Monday, 14 February 2022 3:53:33 AM
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shonky,

You claimed China had an average income twice that of India. I gave you evidence its 5.5 times greater. Nothing to say on that?

Yes, the great scourge of Covid did have an impact on employment world wide, even in the Peoples Republic, where unemployment shot up to 5%, unlike Australia where ScumO' managed to push it to 15%.

Last time I checked New Delhi was not a country. Don't know what the relevance of Switerland is in your thinking.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 14 February 2022 6:07:02 AM
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shonky,

WORLD DATA puts Australia's underemployment rate at 6.6%, China at 5% far better than Australia. I see a couple of Yankee locations have unemployment rates of about 30%.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 14 February 2022 8:41:56 AM
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Pauliar,

According to you, China's unemployment was 0%, then 2% now 5% which is it?

As for the difference, I was quoting average wage and you were quoting average income.

Further, you claim that Australia's unemployment is 6.6% which is bollocks as the ABS pegs it at 4.2%. China's unemployment by CCP statistics is 5% which is typically understated. I think the world data site you're quoting is seriously out of date.

Finally, Turkey's inflation is now between 50% and 100% p.a. and much of the economy has shifted to using the USD.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 15 February 2022 4:01:31 AM
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shonky,

As I clearly stated full employment is generally recognised as 98% employed, the 2% margin is for good reasons. You take the 5% figure from WORLD DATA for China then deny the 6.6% figure for Australia from the same chart. We know the ABS figure is a substantive underestimation. They class a person as "employed" if they work 2 hours a week.

I would be interested if you could give me a brief on the Indian social security system. My understanding if you're unemployed in India, you have two choices, beg in the street, or down the well with a dead goat.

BTW, begging is illegal in China, not like India where there is 300 million beggars, or the US with 30 million. Went to the US beggars everywhere, people living under bridges, even living in cardboard boxes.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 15 February 2022 5:48:49 AM
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Pauliar,

Firstly I didn't choose "world data" you did and then quoted a 2% Chinese unemployment. I quoted 5.1% from Trading economics

TE quotes Aus unemployment at 4.2% using the same measure. The 6.6% was in 2020 during lockdown which is why I said your site was out of date.

Finally what is called the "frictional" unemployment rate is normally quoted at about 3-4% below which is difficult to get to.

Finally the ABS's 4.2% and the Chinese 5.1% unemployment doesn't cover under employment which is rife in china.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 15 February 2022 2:39:23 PM
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shonky,

No comment on the Indian social security system? We must compare apples to apples. What about the US homeless, nothing to say, no homeless in China. As I said it's illegal to beg in China, its a way of life in India, America and for some people Australia.
.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 15 February 2022 6:38:53 PM
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China has about 2.5m homeless. The reason you can't see them begging is that begging is banned not because they can feed themselves but there are plenty of people sleeping rough.

Pensioners rely on their children to support them in their later years, not the state.

Taiwan and South Korea by comparison have far better social security.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 16 February 2022 5:30:14 AM
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shonky,

Whats your point, so does Luxemburg, refering to a could of illegal States propped up by trillions of Yankee dollars is irrelevant. HOW ABOUT INDIA.

I will concede there are a few vagrants on the streets of Chinese cities, brought on by mental illness or alcoholism, but these folks are soon rounded up and cared for in state institutions. Unlike in America where the mass of homeless freeze to death in winter on the streets of places like New York.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 16 February 2022 6:04:05 AM
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Pauliar,

Again lying through your teeth. Taiwan and SK are not illegal states nor did they receive $trillions.

Most of the aid they received was military aid to protect them against Communist china that was trying to invade.

Finally, your description of the millions of homeless including nearly 1m children in china as vagrants is despicable.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 16 February 2022 8:39:19 AM
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shonky,

There is no country called Taiwan recognised by Australia or the United States it is a province of the Peoples Republic of China. Next thing we know you'll be claiming Tasmania is a country, you already claimed New Delhi was a country. As for homelessness in China provide evidence. HOW MANY ARE HOMELESS IN INDIA?

ps. You don't want to talk about the failed Capatalist state of India, why is that?
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 16 February 2022 10:33:17 AM
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shonky,

FYI, A conservative estimate puts the number of homeless in INDIA at 60 to 80 million, with no less than 18 million of those children. Makes any inflated unsubstantiated number you throw up about China look insignificant. Even your outlandish untrue claim would put Chinese homelessness on a par (per capita) with the United States, where the figure is doctored to make the US government's look good.

They should call it "The land of the free and the home of the homeless".
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 16 February 2022 10:53:58 AM
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Pauliar,

I don't know whether you are faking your stupidity or not but you have just shot yourself in the foot. I see that you have slowly backed off your idiotic claims.

If Taiwan is a province of China not governed by the CCP. There is a stark difference between the Chinese under communism and those that are not. Also, South Korea is entirely independent and still performs better.

As for India, the figures I see indicate that homelessness in India is about 1.8m much lower than in China.
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 17 February 2022 10:05:30 AM
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shonky,

What is that nonsense in your last post.

"As for India, the figures I see indicate that homelessness in India is about 1.8m much lower than in China."

Reliable data puts the number of homeless in India between 60 and 80 million with 18 million 0f those children.

Put your CRACK PIPE down, and pay attention. There is no country called Tawain recognised by Australia or America.

How you going with the Indian social security system? I'll give you a tip, unlike China, they don't have one.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 17 February 2022 2:57:34 PM
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Pauliar,

I guess the heroin has dulled your senses as you clearly didn't understand my last post. Taiwan as a completely independent self-governed province with a democratic, not communist government is prospering far better than the provinces under the CCP tyranny.

Notably, performing far better is South Korea.

As for India where is your reliable data? It's just bollocks you have made up again, isn't it?
Posted by shadowminister, Monday, 21 February 2022 2:09:07 AM
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shonky,

I never understand your twaddle.

According to The Economist INDIA has a per capita GDP of $2010. whilst CHINA has one of $9771, about 5 times greater. Granted CHINA is not up there with Luxemburg or some such well heeled principally, but its not down there with Somalia like INDIA is with tens of millions begging in the streets. If all the beggars in INDIA were a country it would be the 10th biggest country in the world, a country of beggars. What would their GDP be ZERO!
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 21 February 2022 5:44:34 AM
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Correction, that should read 20th not 10th. INDIA has more beggars than BRITAIN has people.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 21 February 2022 5:56:11 AM
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Pauliar,

https://homelessworldcup.org/homelessness-statistics/

INDIA

There are an estimated 1.8 million homeless people in India, with 52% based in urban areas. A further 73 million families lack access to decent housing (IGH, 2018; Habitat, 2019).

Once again you are talking SH1TE
Posted by shadowminister, Monday, 21 February 2022 10:23:12 AM
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The number of beggars in India is hard to estimate but there are many for whom it is a well paying occupation.
India’s richest beggar is said to ‘earn’ A$4,000 a month by begging, besides his real estate interests and the family’s retail business.
Now he is not typical but he is a warning to look into the subject more closely before quoting statistics.
Then there are those successful beggars who train others, for a fee, in deportment, tricks of the trade, makeup and props.
I have seen a one legged beggar who haunts the local Metro station surrounds with his “amputated” limb working perfectly as he was going for a run on Juhu beach.
I have also seen the same fly encrusted baby with various young ‘mothers’, fly encrusted because an invisible smear of honey is all to apparent to flys.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 21 February 2022 12:26:31 PM
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shonky,

You are not serious in suggesting INDIA with a populatipn of 1.4 million has a HOMELESS number of 1.8 million or 0.1% of the total population. According to Australian Government statistics AUSTRALIA'S HOMELESS number is 105,000 or 0.4%. shonky are you suggesting AUSTRALIA'S HOMELESS migrate to INDIA where housing is more available.

shonky, maybe you believe living in a sewer, ditch or drain in INDIA is not considered "HOMELESS" let's call it "accomerdation challenged".
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 21 February 2022 4:23:23 PM
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Issy,

I know what you mean.

I am constantly harassed by INDIAN, beggars, calling me all hours of the day and night;

"Good evening kind sir, I am Ramish from the Punjabi Power Co, please kind sir switch your power to Punjabi with me! I am begging you kind sir."

"No!"

Five minutes later, ring ring.

"Good evening kind sir, I am Ramesh from the Punjabi Phone Co, please kind sir switch your phone to Punjabi with me! I am begging you kind sir."

"DIDN'T you ring five minutes ago from the Punjabi Power Co?"

"No kind sir that was not I, it was my brother Ramish, I am Ramesh. Please, please kind sir, I am begging you."

"GOODBYE!"
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 21 February 2022 6:03:12 PM
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Paul
The generally accepted homeless number in India is around 1.8 million.
Nobody lives in ditches or drains but I have seen a symmetrical stack of 6 foot diametre concrete water pipe sections; for the Mumbai water supply mains, turned into a “housing complex” over night.
The Municipal Council simply ordered new pipes and delivered them to site as needed.

It is apparently hard to get agreement on what constitutes homelessness and Australia’s figure is high because our definition includes those living in very substandard housing, which would be considered more than adequate in many countries, including India.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 21 February 2022 6:19:50 PM
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Issy,

1.8 million, the inaccurate figure from the 2011 Indian Census, 2011 out of date anyway. Generally accepted by whom? Why not apply the same definition to the homeless of India as one applies to Australians, are they lesser people as the likes of SM would have us believe. Under an equal definition the homeless number in India is between 60 and 80 million, 4% to 6% of the population.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 21 February 2022 6:39:57 PM
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Paul,,
That is the figure quoted by Wikipadea, the Borgen Project and India Spend among others on Google, but the figure is outdated and is definitely more.
There can be no comparison with Australia because we count people living in really crook houses as homeless whereas, as I said, such housing would be considered more than adequate in many countries, including India.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 21 February 2022 10:59:59 PM
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Wikipedia the Googlers bible. Do you accept the population of Australia is 22 million, that's what it was in 2011. As for Indian Census figures they would be as rubbery as they come. Applying the same criteria for Indoa as Australia, the homeless estimate for India is a broad 60 to 80 million.

I ask again, why the lesser criteria applied to Indians than Australians? Are their lives, so therefore their livong standards, of lesser value than ours. As an ardent racists SM would see it that way. How about you Issy?
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 22 February 2022 6:57:25 AM
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Paul,
The key is in the housing standards so there can be no real comparison you cannot apply the Indian definition of homelessness to Australia or vice-versa.
Homeless in Australia includes those living in dangerous sub-standard housing whereas in India such housing would be considered quite adequate.
I gave three entities as references, why quote only Wikipedia?
It goes without saying that the 2011 figures will be exceeded.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 22 February 2022 8:17:29 AM
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Pauliar,

I am not suggesting the No of Indian homelessness, I am quoting the figure from the experts. Whereas the figure that you quoted was pulled from your arse as you lied again.

Possibly it is due to the extended family household that is common in India.

P.S. I am glad that you have conceded that Taiwan and South Korea have vastly outperformed Communist China.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 22 February 2022 11:00:11 AM
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Issy, I get my first eye done tomorrow, a couple of errors I don't see.

The acceptable standard should be the same for all, regardless. Example, a mild earth tremor sees substandard houses in India fall down killing hundreds, unacceptable.

BTW, census and homelessness don't go well together, many fall through the cracks
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 22 February 2022 11:54:47 AM
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Paul,
All the. best with the eye
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 22 February 2022 12:39:16 PM
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And take care afterwards, heed your doctor’s advice.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 22 February 2022 2:26:07 PM
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Thanks Issy,

First cab off the rank at 6.40am for 8 o'clock. If bad eye ok will do left next month. Right eye can't even read a street sign.

Young grandson was also to have tonsils out tomorrow in Sydney, but they've got bloody Covid, only mild but it mucks things up. The specialists said he requires a PCR test to confirm the young fella does have Covid, he's not 3 yet. D in law asked I can do a RAT on him I have them at home, no good said spec, got to be PCR test I won't accept RAT as proof. Well, the kids GP wouldn't do it. The specialists is only thinking of his bloody pocket.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 22 February 2022 3:04:28 PM
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Take care Paul.

And follow your doctor's orders.

All the best.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 22 February 2022 3:58:35 PM
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Thanks Foxy.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 22 February 2022 5:01:34 PM
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Paul1405 said- "There is always a danger the "good folk" will accept extremism as necessary, especially if the extremist is pandering to pre-existing fears and hates, and peddling a simple message of its all for the good of the majority."

Answer- All ideological groups pander to pre-existing fears and hates, and peddling a simple message of its all for the good of the majority. Communists do it effectively- to the detriment of the majority.
Posted by Canem Malum, Thursday, 24 February 2022 2:11:43 AM
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