So its here APEC. The walls are going up, the Socialist Alliance is organizing its demonstrations with others, the State and Federal Governments are spending millions possibly billions on the entire exercise, just to keep away the protesters.

There is so much wrong with how this is being organized. Even Premier Eimma didn't want this in Sydney as it really belongs in Canberra.

To businesses are blocked from customers, all transport is chocked, helicopters menace the skys, and the focus is on the US President George W Bush.

I have said before that the worst thing that could happen is the assassination of George W Bush. The response would be a series of more freedoms and "Patriot III" enact virtually a totalitarian state in the US. This possibility was on the DVD "The Assassination of George W Bush", you can take it out from your local video shop.

So the situation is really going to annoy the hell out of Sydneysiders and our patience, our sense of humor will be stretched to the limit.

There is more on this on my YouTube Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2bpPHtRGNs

I will actually ask YouTubers to respond via OLO if thats OK with Graham Young. The topic is so oversensitive, Google and YouTube are deleting all comment on this video. I know the comments go up as they are announced on my emails. Then, a third party takes them down off line.

Things are serious when our internet views are censored, even when we are not expressing anything of any threat at all. What a strange conference this will be. What do people think?

Could someone please tell me why I shouldn't assume the current bunch of APEC protesters are just band wagon jumping, ratbag troublemakers who aren't even sure what it is they're protesting against. Since, after meeting two of them recently, this is the only honest conclusion I can draw? Please enlighten me.

PaulL
I dont know but if the above comment is anything to go by I dont think even Saintfletcher knows what they are complaining about.

All I can see is a grumble about personal inconvience while we try to be a part of the world.
Strange- very Strange- Especially as some of the things on the agenda to be discussed are to this country- and the worlds advantage.

I dont suppose the starving people in third world countries would ever imagine that some selfish folk might have their patients strenched because of a few days inconvience.

So Saintfletcher- Is there anything else you would like to protest about- other than traffic?
James If you can share with us your meeting with some of these people it would be interesting.
Still it doesnt sound like you got much more sense than this thread makes.
Maybe you met Dumb and Dumber and it looks like there are a few more running around loose.
I think Australia should be proud to host the world leaders
I didnt say I liked all of them but as a growing nation its important we show our country in the best light.
Mind You I wouldnt mind a chance to demostrate about live exports. At least We would know what we were demostrating about!

I can't answer that Paul. I think the whole thing is the last gasp myself. I know there are a few organized demonstrations, as my YouTube channel shows. It is annoying that security has blocked my YouTube channel where comments are being disabled by a third party. YouTube and Google are not doing it, so there are no prizes for guessing what kind of agency or organization is doing censorship.

I know that the Greens are not going anywhere near the barricades. Even they have wizened up to the whole thing.

You would think that if there is no enemy, there can be no war. If there are no protesters, the police and surveillance would look rather foolish and get quite bored.

Somehow this just doesn't get through to people, usually younger people. All I'm trying to do is allow a thread here and on YouTube for people to let off a little steam. In this situation where there will be so many disruptions, I think a whinge session is totally legitimate and healthy.

Welcome to YouTubers who are commenting from YouTube as my channel there is being blocked from commentry. While this technical intrusion is sorted out, please feel welcome to join OLO, I'm sure the site moderator: Graham Young, will make you most welcome, and if you are not in Australia and curious about Australian Opinions, this will be interesting for you to join, look around, and see what Australians have to say.

I'm not sure if there is there is a site quite like this one in the US or the UK so welcome, enjoy and please come back to follow up on your comments.

God Bless You
+++The Saint+++

Saintfletcher
Sorry I think I ow you an apology.
I see what you are protesting about now. I think.
You are saying an internet space for the want of a better term is being tampered with. Is that correct?

Umm and Graham has allowed you to hook your link up to his forum?
That was really nice of Graham to do that.

So do comments on this thread now go through your u tube?
We are a bit bushy here Saintfletcher and not up with all this modern tech stuff so please forgive the annoying questions.

So if this link is hooked up to your U tube sight we should expect people from all over to read and comment - yes?
Are we able to put some posts up on live exports?
Would you mind too much?
Anyway - Sorry if I got you wrong-
If somebody is tampering with a web site the Government must remember this is a country of free speech.
We should put up some stuff and see if it stays up. Are the comments going off your link or is it the whole of this U tube thing.?
I understand they need to block off the streets for sercurity purposes but to stop people posting comments is unAustralian

Socialist alliance, a strange way to spell Ferrell! do you know a union official is standing in the election for them?
Another story but there is a difference, why are they protesting?well truly held concerns about world trade and its victims peace and a host more.
Some concerns me too, but not enough to throw rubbish bins at police, or try, not now unfortunately to maim polices horses.
Ferrel's.
I could find a way to protest if I wanted to without shaming myself and my reason for doing so.
Western freedoms to protest allow idiots to go far too far.
less than 1% of 1% the socialist alliance is no measure of how we think.
But do not forget for a second while they may be the biggest idiots there could be far more dangerous fools present.
Let us get it over in safety let Bush by just talking show us how dangerous he is let the Ferrel fools remind us why we do not support them but in safety always.

The way to protest these days is to use the BRAIN rather than brawn :)

YOUTUBE is the coming media method... Fletch has found this out, I did some time back, Presidents and big shots have also... so..maybe its time for a declaration ?

"WE WILL MAKE THE NEWS OF TOMORROW" YEEEEHAH. :)

A 'small' DEMONSTRATION in a public place can have a BIGGGGG impact when it is placed on youtube...who cares if only few people turn up :)

This is all happening a bit faster than many of us can cope I think.....

I hope OLO will open up a video section like youtube it will totally rock..and maybe then rule ? :)

With all the technology that is available today why couldn't they have all stayed at home and had a Tele-conference?

Businesses do it to save money so why not Governments?

Perhaps the simplicity puts them off, or the lack of expense?

Ise

You are not serious. Businesses do short teleconferencing when decisions have to be made on the spot. When complex issues are involved and there are many parties, face to face meeting are far superior. Have you ever tried teleconferencing anything other than a short meeting.

The most valuable aspect of any APEC type summit is that world leaders can meet ,talk and get to know each other, breaking the down the barriers of cultural, religious and racial divides.

Such meetings allow the participants to broach delicate subjects without having to report to the media who made the initial advance, what were their bargaining points etc. before an agreement can be reached. There are plenty of topics which need to be discussed but which are electoral suicide for a politician if they aren’t handled in a media savvy manner. APEC gives our leaders a chance to throw around ideas without having to immediately defend them in a public manner.

Tele conferencing? how do you kick the person next to you under the table if they have drifted of subject?
Howard like every leader in this group wants his and his country's day in the sun.
Australia may well make millions due to more tourists over the next 12 months.
No one would want the Olympics barred so why be concerned about this?
If we get it done without problems it will be well done if not?
let us keep our fingers crossed and eyes open.

Just to clarify PALE, I may have used the wrong terminology. What I meant was that on OLO, I have shown my YouTube link in the first posting which everyone can do, we use it to reference. I haven't been given any special privileges. Interactive stuff is still clunky for some of us down under. DB is right, I think once OLO has the funding and recourse to do it, they will have the capability to have a "YouTube" kind of format. Graham once said to me that in a posting that they would like to to that if they could.

With the APEC thing, I can't help wondering if such a heavy handed presence with menacing helicopters everywhere, signs, and passive aggressive threats to residents, are they provoking protest.

I think the Government would be most annoyed if there was no protest and the whole billion dollar shebang would be left there looking quite silly.

The water cannon, the helicopters, the military the toy soldiers, you know it just makes them feel more important. For us that live here, it is annoying and a waste of money.

All good points re the boys getting together and being able to talk in relative security, but why couldn't it have been held in Canberra?
At Alice Springs or on Christmas Island?

There is no reason that it had to be held in Sydney with all the consequent expense, disruption etc.

I agree. The YouTubers don't need to come here to comment now, the block on the comments on the YouTube site was lifted. I have since heard that part of our tax payers Billion dollar costs for security here includes the Government editing and censoring Wikipedia, My Space and YouTube. Anything with "Apec" written on the web is vetted, stalled or blocked. My site was blocked from commentry for 2 days.

Finally, the Government must have realized that I pose no threat to them, I'm not provoking or encouraging any protests.

The intimate details of the Government intervening in every internet upload, blocking, censoring is something they used to do in the Soviet Union. Yet APEC is meant to affirm free trade and democracies in this region. By doing this, the Australian Government in taking freedom, makes a mockery of APEC which is supposed to be about free trade and promote democracy.

We don't need the protesters to tell the world that. The world can see the heavy handedness of the Australian Government. Yes, it should have been in Canberra and they should have an audit on how much money they have wasted on this.

saintfletcher, I've struggled to understand the scale of the precautions taken for APEC. On the surface it seems like a massive over-reaction and the cynic in me wonders just how, with no real serious threats that I know of, our governments got to fear us so much?

But, this security operation looks more and more like a WorkCover or Comcare project gone wild. If you've ever been thru this mill you'll know how an OH&S system can reach absurd levels of hazard CONTROL; where even the most trivial 'risk' demands disproportionate safety measures.

It's a shame that the security measures themselves seem to be breeding their own protests.

Sorry but has the last poster a short memory? remember Melbourne?
Or any meeting of world leaders this last ten years?
Those Ferrell's in masks putting out warnings they intend to act badly?
How would a cop know the mask hides a silly child not a terrorist?
Just a thought ,those complaining about overkill, what if a terrorist act took place and no police could be found?

But Belly, John Howard has said that this operation it not about terrorists, it is not a war on terrorists, it is a war on protesters. Sydney today has been intolerable and the CBD is a ghost town. The business are being strangled by fences and they have rent to pay. Senator Kerry Nettle is not even allowed to have a press conference. There is not freedom of speech even for Senators. This is a very serious breach of freedom on speech, at the cost of 330 million dollars. This is our tax payers money.
It is after 11pm and the black hawk helicopters still menace the sky like its a war zone, thumping past and flashing their lights in our windows. People can't take photos in the CBD. The Australian Government has also censored YouTube, Wikipedia and Myspace, over 5000 edits have been recorded.
As our freedom is snatched away, as Sydney businesses are strangled by fences, this is all for what? Democracy and Free Trade?
This is not for Australians, this is for big business. It should have been in Canberra, this is a sickening disgrace.

PAUL L said:

'Could someone please tell me why I shouldn't assume the current bunch of APEC protesters are just band wagon jumping, ratbag troublemakers who aren't even sure what it is they're protesting against.'

COMMENT.. well Paul...I'll let you know after I speak with some today (Melbourne) I'm heading to the demo at flinders street and will do 2 things.

1/ Display a 'Unity Australia' poster (which has a yellow triangle on green background with a large '1' in the middle and the words 'Race' 'Culture' on each sloping side, and 'NATION' at the bottom.

2/ Asking the students why they are there.

Just in case you have missed the background to that '1-nation/culture/race' thing.. in reality it is an 'anti-racism/anti-Multiculturalism' statement, which suggests that when all of us drop our 'racist' prejudices and see people as 'people' rather than 'people+ethnic tag' then.. we will tend to intermarry. This in turn will dilute the 'difference' and promote a more blended national ethnicity which ultimately will become a kind of fully blended race as the British are, with their component ethnicities of Celt/Viking/French/Angle/Saxon etc. and... today we speak of 'English' as though they are one race, yet they came from many races.

APEC is one of those junkets that world leaders enjoy.. I'm sure they do achieve a lot, but inevitably it is for the benefit of the powerful oligarchies who really run our national 'shows'.

Its like the Timber industry in Sarawak, sure the people gain employment as chainsawers, truck drivers, laborers etc..but the REAL money goes to the Chinese and Malay 'clubs' which extract and sell the timber.

Gawd. Boazy's as silly as the SA ferals.

At least the Greens and other rational groups have the sense to stay away from the APEC circus. Of course, Boazy's purported sign is a deliberate rip-off of the Greens triangle, designed to tarnish their brand. It's copybook Exclusive Brethren-style mendacity, but I that's what we'd expect from Brother Boazy.

I guess it'd be churlish to hope that he's arrested and has to spend some time in a cell with some dreadlocked ferals... :)

Well, now that it's all over.

Was it worth it?

If anyone came out on top it was 'The Chasers' and the ABC... a ratings jump of monumental proportions.