While I think I have an understanding of the issues it seems few do judging the posts in related threads.
Here is the proof unions will not control Rudd, in fact some are already declaring he is no ALP leader.
He retains the damaging building industry task group, you would need to be blind not to know why.
Some actions of some unions have been dreadful, and the wet cheeks of large building groups are on show in ALP meetings!
Both sides of politics wanted reform in IR Labor started it, workchoices went too far.
Soon even the most conservative press will say so, after the train wreck of Howard's election.
It is believe me! quite possible John Howard may table a near copy of the ALP policy's before the election.
Kevin Rudd may I say as a rank and file unionist and ALP member, as a hand on a polling booth on election day, as a bloke who will cry with joy on your election.
Do not go too far in your watering down , never forget lowering the living standards of low income workers is no good thing!
And mate yes we needed reform not bloody murder.
Reform? unions must learn new ways to serve its members be seen in the workplace much more often and at ALP conferences? value our votes far more, understand they too are not our votes they belong to our members.
What best serves our members first second and third.
Can we now bury the lie that unions will control Rudd?
Vote ALP but watch them too.

Hi Belly... well if Howard does come up with a carbon copy of Rudds IR policy, it is more like my own vision of the Left of the Coaltion, marrying the 'Right' of Labor :) i.e... a centrist party.

The basic fundamental problem of our system of government is that both sides ultimately represent specific and different interest groups.

This is why the

SOLUTION is... a SENATE which is not 'party' based.

I think Senate candidacy should be dependant on NOT being a member of a party, and should reflect a cross section of the communities interests.

"I recall we used to run the country, and it would not be a bad thing if we did again" - ACTU Secretary Greg Combet

Boaz your idea is undemocratic, it is you know Australia expects the party it places in the lower house to govern.
If we fill the senate with even more minority's we take control away from the party we elect to govern.
Rudd will govern well, he however is trying to balance the concerns of the trade unions and the bosses unions.
Stu read my post in will unions control Rudd ,it may help you in the battle to stay in touch will reality.
Rudd it is said by my faction has the balance right.
Unions remember started the ALP in, granted a far different world.
Did you ever hear that song? I want to be just like you dad?
Maybe unlike life this time the parent may one day remind its child of some facts.
Just a very few additions to Rudd's plan would make me happy, why 2010?is the right to arbitrate assured?
no strike action unless during EBA negotiations? not ever?
Kev mate ever been shot of a shilling 2 days out from pay day? had to make the choice a loaf of bread or sugar?
Do not get the economy right on the sweat of low income forever workers bloke.
And our numbers are handy on polling day and the months ahead but are our voices being drowned out by bosses unions?

hey Belly i know what you are saying

but greg combet is rudds lick boy

and greg combet said

"I recall we used to run the country, and it would not be a bad thing if we did again" - ACTU Secretary Greg Combet

Last i knew it was greg combet running for the alp for the house of labor not you.

So is greg combet full of himself.

On another matter isnt it good to see that the unions have problems with sacking their own people.
They do not even care about what they are standing for, hypocrites.

The unions say, Do as we say not as we do.

Stuart ulrich
Indepnedent for Charlton

Rudd has realised that we are between a rock and a hard place.IR reform is about keeping industry here because our balance of payments deficit is fast approaching $600 billion or about $120,000.00 per working family.Even with record sales of resources we are bleeding to death.

Either we increase tarrifs or learn to live like the Chinese and Indians.We cannot have it both ways.

Arjay it may surprise you but I agree!
However unions do in fact get pay rises and working conditions by default for many of those 4 in 5 who are not unionists.
And while I personal view here, know extremism and radical unions must be controlled, a line must be drawn.
My right of entry is no concern, in most cases, is it not just a chance some bosses trade on the extra time?
And a strike can not be used as a recruitment tool by unions, however even you Ajay must have known a boss who left no other path open, especially if he knows you can not take strike action?
Tapp like your self I have not got a clue what you are talking about.
However without any evidence you defame Greg Combet a left wing ALP man as the licker? of our right wing PM to be?
And last the answer is not ever increasing wages nore is it decreasing income for some so others can be rich.
Rudd's plan was never going to make every one happy, me included but it is far fairer than Howard's class warfare workchoices.
Last or second last Stu ,less than 1000 votes that is you future in politics failure in a subject you should have studied more.

Belly
Dont you mean -Rudd Is "In" The Soup"?

You said before some of you were concerned Rudd would not stand by "certain promises made to unions."

I asked you before Belly.

What promises were they?

Please tell we are dying to hear.

I note you did not answer us regarding his lack of interest in Animal Welfare.

OK We get the Rudd couldnt care less which is a pity because he has missed oportunity after oporunity to cash in on the very political issue and the millions of voters who will vote with animal welfare issues in mind.

I still cant believe he let the best oportunity go by regarding the AWB Enquiry to land one on the Howard Government and put himself in a strong postion with the Australian people.

You dont get oportunities like that very often when you are the Shadow Minister for Trade.

If your not a smart trade minister then you wont make a smart Prime Minister.

It was handed to them on a plate and even the Gold Coast bulltein in his own area ran a story expressing their disbelief he didnt jump on it.
This all goes down to lack of expereince Belly.

Mind you it goes much further than that in our eyes.

Kevin Rudd`s OWN words regarding the barbric live Animal Exports that even the Muslim Leaders of Australia have deemed unnessary and cruel was-
I wont be banning Live Animal Exports. "I understand these things"

Yes we are sure you understand the way the donations work from the big companies to allow a trade that has already been recomdeded by SEVERAL Enquiries over the years that it be banned without delay because of the cruel treatment to Austalian Animals.

When Mr Rudd you come back with- I will introduce a policy to create oportunities for those who are buying animals alive from Australia to enter our business world as share farmers and plant owners we will vote for you.

Oh and I will make sure the unions dont stuff up your meat works like they did the last time-]

Well I think I am suprised that you did not know.

Union accused of unfair dismissal
Posted 4 hours 11 minutes ago
Updated 4 hours 12 minutes ago
• Map: Hobart 7000
A Hobart Union's been accused of unfairly dismissing a long standing employee.
It's the second time in a month that the Community and Public Sector Union's been brought before the Tasmanian Industrial Commission.
Susan Dale worked up to a manager position in her eight years at the CPSU.
In June she was told her duties were being outsourced to Victoria and her redundancy took effect last week.
Ms Dale's representative, Ken Stevens told the Industrial Commission that his client had endured discrimination and unfair treatment before her position was terminated.
The CPSU's Tom Lynch told the Commission he'd found a similar job for Ms Dale at another union, albeit at lower pay.
He said he'd offered to top up her pay for 12 months.
The union agreed to re-hire another sacked worker after conciliation talks in the Industrial Commission early this month.

Oh dear Belly - I don't think you do understand the issues or how the ALP works. The ALP is run by the union movement. They decide what goes at ALP party conferences.
On the surface they appear to be arguing. It will make Rudd look good, look as if he is tough on unions. Underneath they are discussing this strategy and working out just how far each needs to go to convince the public of one of the biggest hoaxes in Australian political history.
Now, as an ardent ALP supporter you will not believe that but there are a lot of people out there who know it and they are very worried indeed.

Pale concentrate! you asked that question in will unions control Rudd I answered it there read it.
Millions? are you fair dinkum? blind to all but your own thoughts? can you truly think this election hangs on live exports?
Tapp typing slow so try to keep, up OK? one union one maybe unfair dismissal?
Seek help? please do it soon.
Communicat ,mate! I watch this space am no slave to the ALP, however I revel in the impending removal of John Howard, fresh air free of pointless lies!
READ understand Rudd is his own man, no union man no one inch of him he is no gift to us, unless it lays in the fact he is about to unseat a very much out of touch old bloke who has hurt his own voters with a massive friendly fire tactic he called workchoices.
Unions will not control Rudd he however may control unions for a time.
I however expect growing learning non confrontational unions to use this time to review what is best for those we serve.
One day that may not be throwing resources into ALP elections
And like it or not Howard will suffer at the hands of former Liberal voters, a self inflicted wound.

Belly

PALE concentrate.

I am Belly. I am.

Heres how it works- I get to ask you the questions and I HOPE you will find the Answers.

I also get to put my questions on OLO for others to read like yourself.
BTW You under estimate the feeeling of the public on Live Animal Exports. Yes its millions. Its 96% of the population of the public.


Mr Rudds staff read the papers and some of the forums.

They might say- There is that person again going on about cruelty to animals being exported overseas and cruelty in intensive breeding in cages so small a bird cant spread its wings and a pig can not even turn around.

Mr Rudd might then say oh for goodness sake what are they asking ME to do I am just a spokes person who represents my party.

Then `you` belly might say they want to bring in trained slaughter men to teach Aboriginal People and Regional area people skills.

They want to reopen Australian Abattoirs to create employment for the country towns and areas to provide jobs for the thousands of families moving to the country.

He might say well whats stopping them?

You will say Abattoirs Mr Rudd are the ONLY industry not allowed to bring trained staff from overseas and they NEED trained staff to teach the Aboriginal People.

They also want to establish many smaller free range farms for animals kept in tiny cruel disease spreading cages like Amanda Vanstones and her friends piggeries.

Mr Rudd might say well tell you what Belly. If these people have contacts overseas in Saudi or where ever that will put funds into our Australian outback My Government will look at it.

Mr Rudd might say well thats not fair! to stop just ONE INDUSTRY

If I am elected I wont have one industry blocked from the same rights as others.

Lets not throw the Fair Go out the back door!.

For pale, and those who came in late.
Rudd took over a Labor party that had promised to rip up the workchoices bill.
He on gaining power took small backward steps away from Labors promise.
Miners and business unions, that is what they are, told him of their concerns.
Gillard became invisible, and from the party's left , she no longer spoke about demolition of workchoices, no secrete deal no promises made to unions in darkened rooms.
A public back down from a promise we once thought was forever.
Up the thread a poster said Rudd understands this country's needs, well yes he does!
He however has cut much of the icing from those who work for wages cup cake, the real cake gos to international mine owners and others.
Again I put myself in the fireing line, true very left unions hate me
, but this can be a chance for the union movement to grow.
While we are pinned to the floor by understanding John Howard and workchoices must go, we must post election ask do we need the ALP?
Is its intent to distance its self from us a reminder parents can have more than one child?
Make no mistake I am from the center unity of my party ,and support no radical action but unions should be about workplaces and workers not as servants forever to a party.
He will win.
Govern well.
Be well liked
And just maybe force unions to rethink our roll, no bad thing.

If you need any evidence of positive Labor policy just read the hysterical press release from the Aust. Chamber of Commerce and Industry in reply to Rudd’s affirmation of his IR policy.
The ACCI is bellowing doom and gloom, the policy will cost business. Well of cause it will, it is designed to.
The record profits Australian business has been experiencing has been at the expense of workers and this would go on under future Liberal Government IR policy.
Rudd’s rollback of Workchoices is about redistribution of profit back to workers. A redistribution that is necessary if we are to grow as a SOCIETY. The economy will look after itself. An entrepreneur worth his salt will still be a risk taker but with just a little less for him and a little more for those who do his work for him.

think 4 self that post is silly, as a trade union official I know and so should you it is nothing of the sort.
Look to the conservative side of the fence here for understanding of what it is, see Ajay's post.
Like pale I have a list of things I want from Rudd and my lifetime party the ALP.
Like pale I will get some but not all, strange as it seems Kevin Rudd is the leader I have waited for all my life.
A true centrist.
By the time he hands over to Bill Shorten a great leader in waiting my ALP will have a track record of governing well for all of us.
My concerns about Rudd IR reform are truly held but in no way could I live with Howard's workchoices.
This my fellow unionists is our chance.
We can prove we are up to it, serving our share holders ,the members first second and third.
For today that means voting for Rudd maybe next time not.
Take on board pale no one can give you and me every thing we want.
My claims for a fair workplace are valid but so may be yours however our voice may be small along side others say international food exporters and miners.

belly

Gee Wiz belly We are only asking for one thing from him.

I mean we are getting zero here. You say ALP are going to be more fair and so is Kevin- Ok Then how about he says he wont see just one indudstry blocked from bring in skilled workers Belly?

Every single other Industry in this country can apply through the correct channels EXCEPT the Abattoirs and Meat Processing business.

Ask yourself this- Have you ever wondered why?

Have you even thought about our position.

You say your a fair bloke and I can see you really pride yourself on that and wear it as a badge of honour.

Then please give us the time of day to consider we are only asking to be treated the same as the reast of Australia.

Surley that not too much to ask.

I suspect your probably smart enough to know 'why' abattoirs have been the 'only' ones singled out not able to bring in workers from overseas belly

You would know being in your job the AMIEU were told to back off live exports as well.

Cant you see why belly? Cant you see how discusting that is!

Its to keep their buddies happy that peddle live animals and have influence pluss donate heavily the parties.

Of Course the opposition always gets less but the system is still there.

If Rudd were really the right man he would stamp out the liberal unfair law and let us compete.

Let us build abattoitrs in country towns and bring in our trained slaughter people to train Australians.

Let us compete with the cruel live exporters and may the best man win.
Make sure the unions were not so unreasonable to put us out of business while protecting workers at the same time of course.

When the mines are all gone Australia will still have agriculture IF we start to run things properly.

Pale I can not pretend I agree with every thing you say just so you will like me.
I am from another faction of the union movement that the meat industry union.
I do not approve of imported workers as first option, why not migration?
It may often be the choice of a worker to come here just for a few years then return but more often they want to stay.
Do you know we miss treat these people?
Live exports, yes country meat workers want more meat exported less live animals, is the market there? always? for all currently exported animals? answer is no.
Is it cruel? yes sometimes extremely but not always.
Can ANY PM give in one just one thing? what for 20 million Australians? just 20 million different things?
Or is it his/her sometimes difficult job to govern in the best interests of the country?
I am unsure that it is wise to debate the way Muslims kill their meat, is it our right to judge?
Do not judge me badly I am also unsure we can ever live together and often insulted by actions of far too many from that group, but have you seen the pictures of live monkeys having the brain eaten out in Asia?
If we intrude on others way of life just maybe the lunatic rantings of far too many of them about us and our lifestyle is OK too and it is not.
Keep on with your concerns about animal welfare we mostly share them but lets not forget others have rights too.

Good Morning Belly

Belly said-
"I do not approve of imported workers as first option, why not migration?"

PALE replies
- "Perfect"!
Thats what we are complaing about belly that ITS ONLY Skilled Workers for Abattoirs that barred.


Belly said-
is the market there? always? for all currently exported animals? answer is no.
PALE replies- Rubbish! READ the Media Release put out by Muslims leaders "themselves" here-

http://www.livexports.com/afic.html


Belly says-
Is it cruel? Yes sometimes extremely but not always.

PALE REPLIES -
Oh so its OK! to be cruel SOMETIMES. ?

its barbaric "all the time " AND "costing" the tax payer to keep it afloat. Dont you even know that?
It takes our jobs and has destroyed hundreds of country towns.
We pay taxes each year to keep it going.!

Belly says
Or is it his/her sometimes difficult job to govern in the best interests of the country?
PALE replies
I am speechless. I suggest you read a economic report- here is a short one-
http://www.pacat.org/facts.htm

Also we have a duty of Care! to the Animals. Your disregard is noted.
belly Said-
I am unsure that it is wise to debate the way Muslims kill their meat, is it our right to judge?
PALE REPLIES
Your wrong Muslim leaders contacted us three days ago. The are supporting pre stunning and slaughtering HERE AND introduction of Gas and it has the blessings of the New Mufti.
We did that by "talking" for the last few years Belly.

By the way your the first to know- Congradulations. The Muslims Muslims have done more than anybody regarding live exports.

Have you seen the pictures of live monkeys having the brain eaten out in Asia?

PALE REPLIES

Yes its dreadful. They treat OUR cattle and Animals "the same" Belly.
Think about that please. Or do you think they all stand around saying-

"Oh look here comes Australian Animals"

Lets be nice to these ones.

Yourself, Rudd have just as much a duty to Animals and jobs for Australia as us.
Mr Rudd "Show" us you can lead instead of following.

REOPEN ABATTOIRS HERE!

As we lurch further away from the threads intent I wonder what else we can lay at the feet of our leaders.
What scream for attention? what stamping of our feet and holding of our breath until our demands are met?
Mine and yours pale our needs, are victims of Rudd's need to be elected, and of Howard's intent to hold the job he once could not see any one taking away.
I will while I live fight for just that little bit more than Rudd has offered me.
I will ask my movement to except the challenge of constant improvement and constant awareness of workers needs.
And that must be your choice too, like me your voice has been mixed with a thousand others shouting to be fed.
Just this last question but first a statement.
I believe the silent majority of Muslims have failed my country ,that in truth we can not live as one.
Now the questions 2 in fact,
would you except being told not to eat your Christmas dinner if it contains chook?
Then how can you and I concerned as we are, yes I too am concerned, ask Muslims to disobey the book they use to live by?