The pro gun lobby in Australia is very much influenced by US action on guns, continually trying to use America as a lever to introduce similar lax laws here. A recent change to the law on handguns in Texas should be of concern to all of us. The new law allows for Texans to carry loaded handguns in public, without any kind of licence or permit, and without any training what so ever in the use of such a lethal weapon. This is very much a return to the days of the wild west and Dodge City, with would be Wyatt Earp's roaming freely looking for the next shootout opportunity. This new law was championed by the powerful NRA, an organisation with links to the pro gun lobby in Australia.

"The Australian gun lobby is as large and spends as much on political donations and campaigns, per capita, as America's powerful NRA, a new report has found."
"Australia's pro-gun groups were also mimicking the NRA's political strategies in a "concerted and secretive" effort to undermine Australia's strict gun laws, according to the report by progressive think tank, The Australia Institute."

Dear Paul,

I would hate to see Australia go down the path
of America regarding gun laws. Hopefully
Australians will not allow this to happen.
We cannot and must not play follow the leader
in this case.

Gun control is beloved of frightened, totalitarian governments, fearful that an armed population will rise up against them. Australia already has some of the most draconian gun laws in the 'free' world; and this is supported by at least two thirds of piss weak Australians, ripe for the coming of socialism "with Chinese characteristics", as their future leader, Xi Jinping, is fond of saying.

When I surrendered my last firearm to police many years ago - because I no longer used it - the officer I dealt with advised me to make sure I kept up my licence (he apparently knew then what was coming). I ignored the advice, because the hungry Brown Liberal government of the time was upping the fee regularly.

Now, if I was ever required to enlist in a Dad's Army in the event of a threat to Australia, I would say, "Eff you".

Former PM John Howard did the best thing with the
laws he brought into play after the Port Arthur massacre.
Let's keep our laws and let the Americans keep theirs.
Let them pledge allegiance to their guns. We've got
better things to do.

cont'd ...

I'd rather we pledged our allegiances to the
Queen.

Australian Gun lobby is not influenced by the USA, this is overlooking the facts why people have guns. I have never owned a gun or am likely to buy a gun. However having grown up in the bush, I have seen their benifit in downing wild pigs, dingoes, snakes, injured animals etc.

I dislike the fact of carrying a hand guns, but I have friends in America who have hand guns in their home in case of a home invasion. They have it because of the frequency of home invasions by criminals entering homes even in broad daylight with weapons.

Currently we can trust the Police and Army who are licenced to carry firearms, but will this always be the case?

Foxy, you will stir up Paul with that anti-Republican comment. I know what you mean - the Queen does not represent herself but the Westminster Constitution upon which our laws are made. To which John Howard reflected in making the gun laws.

Josephus,

No it won't always be the case if we let
organizations like the NRA in.

Keep Australia safe from the American gun
influence.

Foxy,
Which scenario would you rather be in; Have a gun & shoot someone that clearly means to harm you or have no gun & be robbed or shot by them ?

individual,

If neither of us had a gun - there wouldn't
be a problem would there?

Foxy,
I'll let other OLO'ers reply to your reply !

The U.S. has more gun crime than we do because its population is 13 times the size of ours; more crime of all sorts. Keep up multiculturalism and mass immigration, and we will gradually catch up, with more people feeling the need for firearms (legal or illegal) to protect themselves.

On violence, I note that the NZ PM is shyer about discussing the SRI LANKAN terrorist who was on a watch list than she was about the Australian one, who caused her to perform all manner of politically-inspired virtue signalling, even anti-white racism bombast.

individual,

If someone with a gun broke into my house and if
I also had a gun - he'd shoot me first.
Can't you see that? I'd be in more danger if I
also had a gun.

A police search for guns in Sydney.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMFLthS7Sjo

More people are injured today with knives in Australia.

Wrong Foxy.

If most homes were known to have guns, as they were when I was a boy & young man, robbers would be much more loath to invade homes when residents were present. It just did not happen in Oz when I was young.

The even worse problem is our crazy laws. If you were to shoot, or even hit with a cricket bat, any home invader, it would be you who was charged, unless you could prove you were in fear of your life. A total reversal of innocent until proven guilty.

Personally I don't have much fear of home invasion, with 2 large dogs, friendly to anyone, unless instructed to attack. They hopefully will deter any would be invader. They would need to, as it would take an awfully long time for me to fetch the key to my gun safe, unlock it, extract a rifle, load & fit a magazine, or grab a round & insert it into the breach, before I could defend myself.

Unfortunately I am no longer able to put up much of a fight physically. My old navy unarmed defense training good though it was once, does require a higher level of physical ability than I now have.

As a kid in a country town we never heard of gun violence, & very rarely heard of gun accidents. However we did have at least one kid a year riding a bike. Yet the woke brigade who want guns banned, want more bike riding by everyone to fight the make believe CO2 caused climate change. Talk about stupidity!

Texas has always had somewhat less stringent guns laws that much of the US. Yet its firearm death rate remains below the average for the rest of the country.

The lessen from comparing US states is that the level of gun control has little to do with the overall death rate. Chicago has perhaps the strictest gun laws in the US bit also among the worst gun death rate.

We'll have to wait for a year or three to evaluate these changes.

Its fraught to start drawing comparisons between Australia and the US. We've never had a gun culture like the US, laws or not. Equally and probably more importantly we haven't had the gang problems that the US imported from places like Sicily and Mexico. If we had gangs killing innocents in the middle of their battles, I suspect the citizenry would be clamouring for more protection including personal protection.

I've only ever shot a gun twice. Once when I worked (straight out of school) for bank and all employees were required to know how to use the pistol all branches kept. This is no longer the case. The other time was during a camping weekend outside Vladivostok where the only thing that was truly safe were the empty champagne bottles which were our targets. I have no desire to own a gun in Australia. But I suspect that, were I to relocate to the US my desire for a gun would change.

The right to bear arms in the US is supported by the Second Amendment to the US Constitution which states:

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

This was inspired by the American Revolution which was started by the action of armed Massachusetts farmers challenging the might of the British Army. However, armies now have airplanes, tanks, bombs and other weapons which armed farmers couldn’t do much against. The gun lobby justifies itself by the last part of the amendment - the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It could also be interpreted as - the right of people belonging to a well regulated Militia to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I was a military advisor to Senator Woodley in writing legislation to control the arms trade of Australian weapons producers. Arms sales are protected from public scrutiny since a commercial-in-confidence provision applies. We were unsuccessful in getting the provision removed.

The right to bear arms..
davidf,
I think there's a massive difference between "bearing" arms to owning a firearm. I'm against bearing arms in public but I'm not against owning one & keep it at home or take it with you into an environment where you might need it to fend off a dangerous animal.

Senator Woodley and the Methodists have always had issues- they seem to believe that love will 'cure all'- the Uniting Church is seeing some internal conflict- perhaps due to these- the Scottish Presbyterian's don't seem to hold the same views. Panacea's are problematic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniting_Church_in_Australia

I’ve been away for a while, been looking after a mate’s property further up the valley, no electricity but plenty of foxes, 31 of which I shot;.
The mate is in lockdown on a place that he owns out near Pockataroo.
Did a bit of cheating though I’ve got a new scope sight with a built in range finder a gift from the eldest.
Also used an electronic remote controlled lure which allows one to get side on shots.

Paul,
Up to the old unsubstantiated allegations again, do tell us what laws are/have been white anted

Foxy,
There are NRA clubs registered in Australia, it’s a legal organisation and complies with Australian law; been around for years; do get up to date.
John Howard, the Father of the Australian Gun Lobby did a great job and the shooting sports would not be in the healthy state that they are now in without his help.
The SSAA went from some 57,000 members to the over 200,000 that they have today.
They have also branched.out into Insurance and Internet sales.

What objection do you have to properly trained women having a gun that they may use for self defence if the need arises?

Hi Issy,

Glad you're back, I understand the fox problem, another Pommy invention, luckily we have no Foxy problem here, she's always spot on. "unsubstantiated allegations" I never make any such thing. This topic is simple, how about a comment on the "Texas Law", do you agree that citizens without training, or with training for that matter, should carry loaded handguns, Dodge City style. In 2019 the leader of the Shooters Party indicated he had no belief in gun laws, and did not support them. I have said before I have concern that the NRA has influence in Australia, and is well known for its advocacy for lax gun control laws. The NRA has previously advised the gun lobby in Australia on how to deal with "situations" I quote; "First, “Say nothing.” If media queries persist, go on the “offence, offence, offence”. Smear gun-control groups. “Shame them” with statements such as – “How dare you stand on the graves of those children to put forward your political agenda?”

I ask what is Shooters and Hooters Party policy on the above, do they endorse it? What are your thoughts on this kind of self protection, actually it goes beyond just self protection into the realm of citizen policing. There are those that want so called citizen militia groups formed in Australia, the old 'New Guard' type thing. Any thought?

Paul,
Firstly Dodge is in Kansas and has nothing to do with Texas and Wyatt Earp was a lawman and a very decent bloke.
Your grasp on history is rather tenuous.

I’m all in favour of the current gun laws except for a few stupid ones and as I’ve said in the past I have no desire to carry a pistol, if I need to defend myself I have my walking stick.
The gun laws will ultimately be modified because the drafters of them, being full of vindictiveness, ensured that their effectiveness would be undermined, quite unintentionally of course.
Regarding Texas, look up Luby’s Law.

Joe Biden will sort out Texas, just as he is sorting out the other States.
Under Biden we will soon see strict gun control laws in the US and the complete ignoring of the Second Amendment.
Meanwhile in California they are going to pay criminals $300 a month not to go shooting people, now there’’s gun control in action!!
,

Is Mise,

We are up to date with the erosion of the
laws that John Howard
managed to achieve after the Port Arthur massacre
and the erosion of the NFA agreement since then.
We're also aware of how powerful the shooters clubs
are and the influence of the NRA in Australia.

Money talks - as we know. However this does not mean
that most Australians have to like it or not fight
this erosion. Especially by those of us who have
witnessed first hand
the debacle that guns cause in the US.

The laws that John Howard brought in were fair.
Just to name a few -
Regos for all guns. A ban on semi-automatic and
shotguns. Proof of reason required for all gun licence
applicants, and gun purchases and ammo sales.

Self defence was not considered a reason for owning a gun.

I don't have a problem with any of this.
What I do have a problem with is the attempts to erode
these laws by powerful gun clubs and rich rifle organizations
no matter how "legal" they may be.

cont'd ...

Is Mise,

Wyatt Earp?

According to the web - the history books
(and Hollywood) often describe the famous
lawman as many things and certainly in the
story - "Gunfight at the OK Corral" he's
often pictured as a hero. However in truth,
as they say - Earp was known to use his
guns more than his mouth and he balanced
precariously on that line between a life as
a criminal and a life as a lawman.

He was a complicated character. As most were
in those times. Yeehah!

Hi Paul,

I agree with you. Australia does not need the mentality
of the American "Old West" brought into our gun control laws.
We don't want another Dodge City, or Tombstone, or
even Old Tucson outlooks here. Or gunfights at OK Corrals.

BTW - we visited the Old Tucson Studios in Arizona. A wild
West theme park originally built as a set for Western movies
in 1939. Some of Hollywood's most famous Westerns such as
"Gunfight at the OK Corral" and "Rio Bravo" were filmed there.

Foxy,
If you are up to date with the erosion of the gun laws and the NFA then pleases give examples?

Or will you be like Paul and dodge the question?

Hi Foxy and Issy,

Issy, we know where Dodge City is, and we have no intention of allowing Dodge City Two or would be Matt Dillon's to open up in Australia. I don't Dodge (City) nothing. Do you agree with the handgun law in Texas, simple question? Here's your opportunity to blast this out of the water! The NRA were all in favour, what is the positon of their Australian chapter the SSAA and the political arm The Shooters and Hooters Party?

Paul,
I’m all in favour of Texans or anyone else choosing their own laws, isn’t that democracy?

Good point Is Mise.

Now, now, Issy,

Dodging the question, are you in favour of this Texas law? Would you support such a law in Australia. Unless you say otherwise, given your evasive response, and your pro gun attitude, its a fair assumption you and the rest of the gunnies would like the same law here.

Simple solution, only people who participated in National Service are eligible for applying for a gun license !
Problem, politicians too weak to impose a national Service & people not willing to pull their weight !
Problem continues !

Hi Indy,

So you wont get a gun licence, not having participated in National Service. What is the relationship between National Service and guns, sounds like the old citizens militia rubbish? Why is the ultra right so obsessed with owning firearms, who do they really want to shoot?

Paul,
I am not in favour of the Texas gun laws in Australia, l don’t want to carry a pistol as doing so is a pain in the neck. I carried for years as the occasion demanded and it’s a nuisance, particularly on a hot day.
If I need to defend myself I have my trusty walking stick and the skills drilled into me on how to kill and/or disable (temporally or permanently) by the representatives of the Commonwealth of Australia, and at my advanced age I can still put a hulking 18 year old out of action.
Don’t ask how because such knowledge is dangerous in the wrong hands.

It's amusing Paul1405 labeling those that disagree with him as Ultra Right- Just shows himself as an "Ultra Left- Communist Watermelon" I suppose.

Speaking of Watermelons , just how much have the Greens raised for charities in the past year?
Perhaps Paul can tell us of the efforts of some of the branches?

Are the "Ultra Left" really communist watermelons?

Does that make the "Ulta Right" goose-stepping
fascists - Nazis?

As Billy Graham famously said - "I'm not for the
Left Wing or the Right Wing. I'm for the whole bird."
(or words to that effect).

Labels belong on jars. Not on people.
And most people's political views are usually not set
in concrete. They can change depending on the circumstances.
People can be progressive on some issues yet extremely
conservative on others. We're all individuals with our
unique differences and outlooks. One size does not usually
fit all.

In regards to Foxy's comment- Caricatures are different from labels. But yes I consider a lot of Paul1405's positions to be plainly Communist. It might just be my perspective- I try to read literature from a broad range of political perspective- not always practical- but we all read things in our own biased way. At least I admit it- beware of those that don't.

There are many examples in history of the masses giving up their right to self defense only to be enslaved- Hideyoshi's sword hunt 1588.

It's OK to have different opinions. But lets stop
this labelling cycle. Our world was created with
differences. Embrace it. Don't label it!

cont'd ...

There are also many examples especially in the
United States of what can result when people do
have the right to have handguns for self defence.

Foxy,

How are you going with the search for evidence that they gun laws and the NFA are being eroded?

Is Mise,

Here's two links for you to reject:

http://guncontrolaustralia.org/erosion-of-gun-laws-inaustralia-timeline

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/25/how-australias-global-gold-standard-on-gun-control-is-being-eroded

Why do you want me to spoon feed you when all you
have to do is look things up for yourself on the
web. Besides I'm sure that you already know the
answers being so "up to date" with things concerning
guns. And no matter what I give you you're going to
reject it anyway

cont'd ...

Here's the first link again:

http://guncontrolaustralia.org/erosion-of-gun-laws-in-australia-timeline

Is Mise,

My apologies. I keep miss-typing the link.
One last attempt and then you're on your own:

http://guncontrolaustralia.org/erosion-of-gun-law-in-australia-timeline

Many objects and systems hurt and destroy people in the community but the overall effect is positive. I believe that the right to own guns is overall positive. The Stanford prison project is informative.

Some perhaps believe that police have greater training and safety processes than the average gun owner and are somehow more responsible in the use of firearms. As Is Mise has said on a few occasions there are significant safety requirements at gun clubs- gun clubs have very little tolerance to irresponsible behavior- possibly even less tolerance than the police- people would never go out with an unsafe person. Also the people who would use the police and the forces armed capabilities for civil activities also may not be able to be trusted.

Liberals believe that everything should be part of the government as if they can be trusted- we need to bring the institutions responsibilities back into the community- not put the responsibility for everything on the government.

Locke Liberals seem to believe that people can't be trusted because they are naturally bad- this seems to be inconsistent with Locke's own view on the nature of people- "man in a state of nature"- Locke can't have it both ways.

It's been argued that the only way that the Russian people were able to depose the supposedly corrupt Tzars in favour of "equality" was by the invention of the Smith & Wesson revolver.

Foxy,
Thanks for the links but neither of them give one shred of evidence that gun laws are being eroded, both are big on rhetoric and speculation but offer no evidence at all.

The fact that strictly controlled hunting on some public land has been allowed is not an erosion of law at all, it has absolutely nothing to do with gun control laws or the NFA.
The lowering of the age at which young people may be taught firearms safety and have a shot ON A RANGE and under Licenced adult supervision also in no way weakens anything.
One would expect that GCAustralia and others would welcome firearms safety training for young people.

Is Mise,

Track the erosion of Australia's gun laws from
1996 to 2018 as given in my link on page 8.

Foxy,
There is absolutely no erosion of the gun laws in your link, only supposition and deceit.
Not one shred of evidence.
Your link to the Guardian is also flawed for the same reasons plus outright lying.
They say that the Adler shotgun was put in a lesser category but they fail to mention that it was moved because it was in the wrong category.
It’s moving brought it back to its proper place under the gun laws.
It is a lever action shotgun and such guns were not banned.
The Guardian, the Greens and GCA all bleat about the Adler but never mention the Winchester lever action shotguns, which are arguably better than the Adler and in the case of the M1894 Winchester shotguns faster than the Adler.

Issy its quiz time!

Talking of charities, answer the following question correctly and I'll make a substantial donation to your favourite charity 'MEDICAL EXPENSES FOR THOSE WHO SHOOT THEMSELVES'. on behalf of the Greens, of course.

A law-abiding citizen with a loaded gun, whom are they most likely to shoot?

(A) a burglar
(B) a stranger
(C) a family member
(D) THEMSELVES

If you don't know the answer I'll give it to you after your next post.

Well I suppose Paul1405 just really cares about gun owners ;) .

Paul,
A target.
Now you tell me which gun laws have been eroded.

Is Mise,

At present control of firearms is fragmented
between eight different Australian jurisdictions.
The Commonwealth controls the importation of
firearms and ammunition and the States and
Territories regulate the sale, purchase, possession
and storage of firearms.

While some States and Territories have moved to amend
the firearm laws and comply with recommendations,
others have lagged behind in some jurisdictions eroding
the gun laws. For example:

* Minors can obtain a firearms licence

* A firearm licence is valid for life

* there is no specific requirement relating to the
mental or physical condition of the applicant for a
licence

* there is no limit on the number of guns that can be
held by a particular owner

* automatic firearms can be owned by collectors or
for the purpose of film production

* semi-automatic weapons can be legally owned

* there is no restriction on ammunition sales

* not all firearms need to be registered

There is no uniform national firearm legislation in
Australia. Therein lies the problem and it should be
a concern for us all. And fo course that suits the
anti-gun controllers and gun clubs to a tee. Hence
their donations to political parties to keep it that
way.

You're right Foxy, these laws are crazy.

Seeing as it is so easy for any criminal to obtain any gun on the black market, we should abolish all gun laws, so law abiding citizens can get one just as easily.

Foxy,
Just shew me one firearm law that has been eroded, so far you haven’t done so.
All the things that you put forward have been covered by the NFA since it’s inception.

It’s true that Minors can get a firearm permit but that permit does not allow them to purchase a firearm or ammunition, nor to own one.
It permits them to be trained in the use of a firearm and to take part in competition under LICENCED SUPERVISION, not as you imply by your brief reference.

Now here's a solution to gun violence

http://www.sfexaminer.com/news/a-local-solution-for-gun-violence-pay-people-300-a-month/

"San Francisco thinks it may have an answer for its rising gun violence problem: Paying people to not pull the trigger.

The idea is to provide the small number of San Franciscans who authorities believe are most at risk of shooting someone — or being shot — with an incentive to get help and stay out of trouble. It’s a solution that proponents say already has shown promise preventing gun crimes in other parts of California."

Locally the knife is preferred,
"In 2020, most homicide and related offences:

occurred at a residential location (61% or 241 victims)
involved the use of a weapon (59% or 232 victims), most commonly a knife (116 victims)"
http://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/recorded-crime-victims/latest-release

Seems that the gun laws are working, perhaps it's time to try the California solution on the knife problem.

Is Mise,

You asked for one example?

In NSW a 2008 amendment to the firearms act was
passed by the government and the shooters and
fishers party which allowed people to enter a
gun club and begin shooting without a licence
and the previous 28 day background check.

This allowed a young girl to shoot her father
dead after she walked out of a pistol club with
a semi-automatic pistol and ammunition. She was
able to begin shooting despite suffering from
a mental illness and paranoid delusions.

You should go back and track the erosion of
Australia's gun laws that were listed in the
timeline of the link I gave earlier. It gives
the specifics of what was done and the dates
which you can then follow up on the web for
further specifics.

Each Australian state has eroded its gun laws,
and chiselled away the safeguards. This is not
surprising. The gun clubs and organisations
have deep pockets.

In any case I know that no matter what I say -
you shall reject it. I shall leave you to
it.

If you are genuinely interested in how
Australia's gun laws have been eroded - there
is so much on the web - all you have to do
is find the time and the inclination to search.

Foxy,

"In NSW a 2008 amendment to the firearms act was
passed by the government and the shooters and
fishers party which allowed people to enter a
gun club and begin shooting without a licence
and the previous 28 day background check."

This is still the case and the fact that supervision was lax and that she was a thief has nowt to do with erosion of the law.
Allowing people to try the sport, after filling in the appropriate forms, was a logical step in shewing that the laws were not there to make life hard; the change meant that people no longer needed to go the full distance of obtaining a licence before they found out that the sport didn't suit them.
The 28 day wait was waived for subsequent purchases after the licence holder had bought their first firearm, it was considered unnecessary as the police had already done a check.
This was the removal of an anomaly that strengthened the law.

As far as your assertion that the shooting fraternity don't want uniform law across Australia is concerned, you are plain wrong.
Firearm owners want uniform laws and the recognition of their licence Australia wide.
This would get rid of such stupid situations where a person hunting on a property, with the owner's written permission commits an offence by crossing the State Border when that border runs through the property.
Or the utterly stupid WA law that deems a fired cartridge case to be ammunition when in every other State it is considered to be no more than a scrap piece of brass.
Some women wear a cartridge belt with chromed or otherwise plated fired cartridge cases in it as a fashion accessary, in WA they'd face prosecution.

Foxy,

I took your advice and am working my way through the time line
"2008 SA weakens gun laws..."
so I went on the web as you advised and I found,
www.abc.net.au/news/2008-03-05/tough-new-gun-laws-for-sa/1063106
An article on the tough new gun laws in SA.

Does this mean that toughening the gun laws is not going against the NFA?

I'll keep you informed of my progress.

whom are they most likely to shoot?
Pul1405,
That's a pointless question because you didn't give a scenario in which gun owners might the need to use a gun.
To my thinking anyone holding a gun will pull the trigger if they feel they're in serious danger. It's irrelevant who or what the person is.

Is Mise,

I have nothing further to add on this subject.
Except that I cannot take you seriously anymore.
You've lost all credibility as far as I am concerned.

Foxy bows out again; tell me before you go, why do you continually make typos when giving links?

Is Mise,

I'm not bowing out. I'm being selective,
if only to retain that credibility.
I expect a certain standard.

Why do I make so many typos when giving
links?

I have eye problems.

Foxy,

Simply copy and paste, no typing required.

Salutations,

Stats show that a gun owner is most likely to shoot themselves first, followed by a family member second, then a stranger, with the burglar bring up the rear. Self inflicted gunshot wounds whether intentionally or accidentally is the most common result. Issy you didn't answer the question because you are embarrassed by the answer, no chocolates for you.

Foxy, unfortunately only a few years back there was the terrible events where by John Edwards was trained by members of the SSAA at their St Marys gun club in Sydney in the lethal use of a handgun. Edwards used that knowledge gained to murder his two children Jack and Jennifer. To this day there has been no remorse for the children's deaths shown by those from the SSAA, just vitriol about; "we did nothing illegal".

Some on here would condone five year olds carrying loaded guns to school. Hassy said; "we should abolish all gun laws" Issy added; "Minors can get a firearm". This is the intention of the gun lobby, no laws, no controls, society awash with guns.

Issy, good to see you are making some tentative steps to come over from the dark side with you saying the Texas law was not a good one. The old bloke Heston will be turning in his grave.

In 2020 gun violence led to 20,000 killing in the US, which was down on the previous 30,000. With US style gun laws in Australia 1,000 to 2,000 gun deaths per year would be the norm.

Paul,

Your question was
"A law-abiding citizen with a loaded gun, whom are they most likely to shoot?"

Any given weekend there are many hundreds of law abiding citizens, with loaded guns (when told to load by the range officer) firing at targets on authorized ranges as well as hunters out in the field; not one of them shoots him/herself.
They shoot their targets so, unless you can come up with some statistics to refute my answer then it must stand.

Please note that your suggested answers were not part of the question.

Hi Inssy,

This is what happens when you have uncontrolled gun laws;

"TEMPLE, Maine (AP) — Police in Maine are investigating the death of a four-year-old in Maine who they say died of an accidental self-inflicted gunshot wound."

"The shooting happened on Thursday in Temple, police said. Police said other family members were in the house at the time of the shooting."

By Associated Press

Maine is a state with lax gun laws. Led by NO State permit required to purchase a gun. NO firearm registration required, assault weapons allowed, unlimited magazine capacity legal, NO gun licence required. These are the unrestricted rules gunnies want in Australia.
|
June 18, 2021, at 9:56 a.m

Paul,

Does the State of Maine not require safe keeping/storage?
That is the only thing that is relative to your post.

What evidence do you have that LAFOs in Australia want lax gun laws?

I am happy with our current laws except for a few absurdities as are others that I know.

Hi Issy,

"Does the State of Maine not require safe keeping/storage" Obviously not when a four year old child is shooting themselves dead, or maybe the four year old was in charge of the loaded gun as per the non existent gun laws to begin with.

Issy quote; "I am happy with our current laws". Now that wont go down well with the blokes in the bunker. Those sorts of statements smacks of communism, worst still you could be branded a pacifist! That would see you booted out of the inner circle!

Paul,

Maine may or may not require safe keeping but it is not obvious from your interpretation of its laws that it does not.

Issy, you have always commended me on my facts when it comes to this topic of guns. Again I present the facts, just to refresh;

"Maine is a state with lax gun laws. Led by NO State permit required to purchase a gun. NO firearm registration required, assault weapons allowed, unlimited magazine capacity legal, NO gun licence required." A bit more; no background checks required for private sales of guns and NO permit required for open carry of a gun,

With all of the above why would you bother with safe keeping/storage, totally unnecessary! Are your sure Dodge City is in Kansas? Looks to me like its in Maine, in fact most US states have a Dodge City. Looking at the lack of gun control, state by state, you can see why 20,000 to 30,000 Yanks get shot dead every year by their law abiding fellow citizens!

Paul,
You forgot to mention, no doubt as oversight, that Maine has nearly , if not, the lowest murder rate in the USA, comparable to Australia’s rate.

It would seem that safe keeping of firearms in that State is the responsibility of adults as is safe keeping of any other items that may pose risk.

Hi Issy,

I don't think Maine can be compared to Australia, after all it is a rural backwater with far different demographics and a small population with no town having more than 70,000, very different to Australia. On all accounts it should have a far lower murder rate than Australia.

Paul,
But given Maines gun laws shouldn’t their murder rate be soaring?

Perhaps the Texas rate will now drop to a level comparable with Maine’s; perhaps there are other factors involved.

Hi Issy,

"But given Maines gun laws shouldn’t their murder rate be soaring?" No Issy, the problem with the Maineiac's (natives of Maine) is they have had no training with the use of guns, they don't know which end goes bang! Given their ignorance they have a habit of shooting themselves, rather than anyone else, seems they start at an early age. Added to that little conundrum Maineiac's tend to be "spaced out", not on wacky tobacky like most of the shooters and hooters, but spaced out as in distance between, which averages 5 miles, makes it hard to hit the target.