Yesterday, a judgement of the NSW NCAT Appeal Panel was handed down in long running GIPA (freedom of information) case I had against Sydney Trains. I lost.

While not at happy at losing, I'm also very concerned about how I lost. The effect of the judgement is that:

a) Agencies giving evidence on technical matters can avoid having their experts cross examined by having those experts give the evidence to a front man, who will then give it as hearsay, which the Tribunal can accept as evidence. Cross examining the front men is next to impossible, because they don't even understand the questions.

b) It doesn't even matter if agencies do this without informing the other party that the evidence is hearsay.

c) An agency can successfully argue that the release of information would facilitate a criminal act, even if committing the criminal act using the information is difficult and there are much easier ways of committing the act without using the information. This gives agencies a way of avoiding releasing information even where the release would make no practical difference.

NCAT has progressively neutered the GIPA Act to the point where an applicant has next to no chance of getting information that the agency does not want them to have. Annual reports from the Information Commissioner give a very distorted view because although information is released in part for many applications, what people get is mostly administrative trivia of little interest to anyone.

The only way to fix this now is to repeal the Act, and rewrite it in a way that prevents NCAT from construing it so as to favour agencies over the public whose interests the Act was meant to serve.

Tough luck, Sylvia, welcome to the world of reality.

Dear Sylvia,

You were very brave and you tried.

I also have learned the hard way that unless
you've got power and influence your chances
of beating the system are slim. I lost
eight years of my life due to attempting to
make changes. I should have just licked my
wounds and walked away.

Take care and try to move on.
Friends and family help. I hope
you're not all alone in this and that you
do have someone for support.

Thanks for the kind words, Foxy.

This GIPA application was about the design of the internal emergency door release systems that were installed after the Waterfall train crash. I was, and still am, concerned that it may have been designed more with an eye on avoiding delays to trains than in getting people out in the event of a crash. I've drawn the attention of the Office of the Rail Safety Regulator as regards one possible way it could fail badly. Based on passed experience I will get a totally patronising response that provides no information at all.

If it ever occurs, in the decades to come, that a train crashes and people are trapped inside because the door release system didn't work - remember this post.

Sylvia.

Hi Sylvia,

Thank You for responding.
What about the media ?
Especially contacting some TV channels?
A "A Current Affair?" is one. This needs to be
brought out into the spotlight. Channel 9
might also be interested.

Just a thought.

Foxy, as regards the possible failure of the emergency internal door release, I'm not in a position to say that it won't work. I think even A Current Affair would have difficult making a story out of "May not work, but we don't know."

As for the the freedom of information issue itself, it's really hard to get any traction. By and large, I don't think people care. Note how few responses this thread has received.

Dear Sylvia,

I don't know what else to suggest.

Freedom of information you'd think would arouse
an interest on a forum such as this one - not
sure why it didn't. Still here's hoping that perhaps
someone can come forward and offer some advice
of substance.

Fingers-crossed.

Could it be, Sylvia, that you are the only person who has made an enquiry about what you see as a problem? If it's only you, or if you are one of only a few, you are on a hiding to nothing. Such is Australia today that are likely to have been written off as a ratbag.

Which just goes to show that they employ the
wrong kind of people. They could have handled
the situation in a much better way, or at least
referred it to someone who could handle it better
to everyone's satisfaction. Probably some dick
handled it. And there's plenty of those around
as we know.

ttbn, the situation here is not one where I have just been fobbed off by some minion. This has gone through a formal process. The initial refusal was examined (at my request) by the Information Commissioner. It was then reviewed by the Tribunal. Finally, some aspects of the decision of the Tribunal were examined by the Appeal Panel.

A person reading the GIPA Act, and probably the members of Parliament who passed it, would get the impression that most information would have to be released. These is a list of exemptions which, on the face of it, are not unreasonable. The problem is that the meanings of some of the words and expressions used in those exemptions have been contorted out of recognition. For example "could reasonably be expected" has come to mean "not impossible". The word "facilitate" now means "make easier by any degree, no matter how small".

And, as I indicated in my original posting, "facilitate a criminal act" means "make a criminal act easier by any amount" even when using the information that way is a very silly way to commit the criminal act which can be committed in must simpler ways without using the information.

For example, Sydney Train's position was that the information could be used to stop a train by constructing, or sourcing, electronic equipment, breaking into the electronics cabinets in full view of other passengers and surveillance cameras, attaching the equipment (which one has never had a chance to test on a train), and using the equipment to stop at train, with the culprit very obvious, and then being stuck inside a stopped train ready to be arrested.

Never mind that connecting a wire across the rails beyond a signal will do the job in a much simpler way that doesn't expose the perpetrator to the same risk of arrest, and has the advantage of determining exactly where the train will stop.

So when an agency doesn't want to release information, and agencies never do, they have plenty of pretexts available to them, and the Tribunal lets them get away with it.

Sylvia,

I applied through FOI (freedom of information) a long time ago and I had to wait about two months and it cost me about $100, but I got most of what I was looking for. I was shocked at the price and unfortunately Governments at all levels don't want information that will hurt them given out to the public.

I agree with Foxy to take the matter further not just with A Current Affair, but other media like the ABC, but also local community newspapers and Facebook pages.

Also don't forget we have a Federal Election next year so ask the candidates what they stand for!

There's another link here:

http://probonoaustralia.com.au/news/2021/03/advocates-say-nations-foi-system-is-under-attack/

Governments and authorities needs to be held responsible regardless of COVID-19 being a major issue.

Thanks for the link Nathan. Just be aware that there is separate legislation for FOI at the Commonwealth level and the state level.

Interesting thanks Sylvia Else