The Morrison government has committed $1 billion in an attempt to close the gap between Indigenous and Non-Indigenous Australians.

"Scott Morrison says the country's "ultimate test" is to enable every Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander boy or girl the same opportunities as "any other Australian child".

The $1 billion "implementation plan" is designed to close the gap in health, education, justice, and employment by 2031. Last year all Australian governments committed to 16 new targets to improve the lives of Indigenous people, after the previous Closing the Gap scheme failed.

At the same tine Morrison announced a new redress scheme to compensate members of the 'Stolen Generation' in the NT and ACT

Hi Paul,

Will it work this time? It seems that throwing money
in the past has not worked so what new things are they
going to try this time that will make it work? 16
new targets? Really? Will the Indigenous people
and their communities have any input into this attempt?
Or will the white man have all of the control and handle
the money as always?

Sorry Paul, I see the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow
but it's not going to be equally distributed to where it's
need same as before I'm afraid.

cont'd ...

The gap won't be closed - but widened.

The Voice To Parliament might be doomed. A July 2021 IPA poll shows that 60% of Australians DO NOT want race mentioned in the Constitution (including the mention already there) - up from 45% in 2019. Only 11% disagreed. That's why Wyatt doesn't want it to go to a referendum because he knows it will fail.

The more the LEFT yaps about aborigines, the more the general population hardens its attitude. Keep it up. There is no better way to put people off anything than to keep bringing it up. People who might be ambivalent, even positive about aboriginal affairs, get fed up hearing about it and turn their backs.

When I read stuff like that I wished I too was stolen !
I have yet to meet an indigenous who is worse off than I as in regard to being underprivileged.
Or, is the lack of self discipline & drive part of discrimination ?
Btw. I have been & still am discriminated against because of the colour of my skin by people of the same colour !
Also, does anyone have the contact number for the Dept. of white heterosexual males ?

Dear Paul,

Most Australians support First Nations Voice to Parliament.
The 2021 Australian Constitutional Values Survey by
CQUniversity and Griffith University shows that over 60% of
Australians remain in favour of a First Nations Voice to
Parliament. humanrights.gov.au explains about Constitutional
recognition on:

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/about-constiutional-recognition

Quoting from the link:

"The Constitution is the founding document of our nation and
is the pre-eminent source of law."

"The Constitution was drafted at a time when Australia was
considered a land that belonged to no one before European
settlement and when Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander
peoples were considered a "dying race" not worthy of
citizenship or humanity."

"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people were excluded
from the discussions about the creation of a new nation to be
situated on their ancestral lands and waters."

" Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are not
mentioned in the Constitution. The Constitution still allows
racial discrimination...."

The only way we can change the Constitution
is if a majority of states vote YES AT A REFERENDUM.

" In the 1967 Referendum over 90% of Australian voters
agreed to change our Constitution to give the federal
parliament the power to make laws in relation to Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander people and to allow
for them to be included in the census.
But this referendum
did not recognize these peoples as first peoples. "

"Recognizing Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islander peoples
in the preamble of the Constitution and ensuring the
Constitution does not discriminate against anyone will not
give any Australian more rights than others. In fact, these
changes will build stronger relationships of trust and
mutual respect between Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander
peoples and other Australians."

Now is the right time to create a nation for us all.

I have always firmly believed that the present is linked
to the past. That people need to be proud of their ancestry
and to support their communities and champion worthwhile
causes. I firmly believe in telling the true story of a
nation's history and I fully support the Uluru Statement
From the Heart.

cont'd ...

Sorry for my typo.

Here's the link again:

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/about-constitutional-recognition

The aboriginal industry has scored again. The $20,000 fine imposed on the Crow's "Tex" Walker for 'racist abuse' will be handed over to one of the squillion aboriginal organisations. We all know that a percentage of some fines goes to Victims Of Crime irrespective of the race of victims, but the whole wack goes to the aboriginal industry in this case,

It wasn't even the abused who made the complaint: the SNEAKY SNITCH was one of the Crow's own hangers-on. The SNITCH is probably on a retainer from the aboriginal industry to look out for such lapses occurring in the heat of the moment.

Tex made a grovelling apology to the un-named recipient of his opinion, as well as to the SNITCH himself, would you believe! All very sincere, I'm sure, and it will never happen again.

On the absurd size of the fine, Tex could have beaten the bloke up for much less than that.

individual,

You asked if anyone has the contact number of
the Dept. of white heterosexual males.

That's easy. You've got a lot of number to
choose from. As Virginia Haussegger has pointed out:

" ... our federal Parliament is overwhelmingly run
by white heterosexual men who hold the majority of
power, influence and key decision making roles."

"They also dominate among state premiers and chief
ministers, across all 3 defence forces, our judiciary,
academia, local government and across all religious
denominations."

"White men rule the majority of Australia's publicly
listed companies. They overwhelmingly control the
Boards, our financial institutions and banks and
operate in work place environments that severely lack
gender and ethnic diversity."

What's more they get pais more than women to di it.

There you go.

cont'd ...

Excuse my typos

Australia will be one nation when racial discrimination is a thing of the past and all Australians are treated equally.
There are far too many racial organisations.

Is Mise,

I agree. That's why recognising the past history is
so important - and correcting it in our Constitution.

Foxy,
For your sake & our sanity I really hope you get to practise your idealism in one of the remote communities one day !

individual,

Although I grew up in Sydney I've had roots in the country.
From Bathurst, to Windsor, the Hawkesbury, the Hunter,
Wagga Wagga, Albury, Wodonga, Armidale, Kempsey, Quirindi,
Wentworthville, Parramatta, to name just a few. I've also
had a varied career - over several continents. Not only
in libraries.

Anyway, perhaps a change might do you the world of good.
It just might broaden your own outlook. It certainly
couldn't hurt.

Foxy: "Although I grew up in Sydney I've had roots in the country.
From Bathurst, to Windsor, the Hawkesbury, the Hunter,
Wagga Wagga, Albury, Wodonga, Armidale, Kempsey, Quirindi,
Wentworthville, Parramatta, to name just a few. I've also
had a varied career - over several continents. Not only
in libraries."

Great! Good for you Foxy- good to see that you've seen a bit of Australia! Now tell us, have you actually lived and worked in a *REMOTE* aboriginal community. Because those places you've listed are cities and towns with self-supporting functioning economies and predominately populated by non-indigenous law abiding residents.

Now in contrast, just so you know, this is the sort of thing that regularly occurs in remote communities: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-8m45zFCCU . There are hundreds of videos like this on the internet. Now, what's really important to note here is that there is not a single non-aboriginal person in sight. So you can't say that this sort of dysfunctional social behaviour is caused by us "whities". This is how they, themselves, choose to live.
Oh, by-the-way, perhaps you've noticed those houses in the background of the video. Do you think that the types of people in these videos take personal responsibility and work to pay for them/pay for the rent? And likewise for their food, drink and other household goods?

And while you're at it, on another matter that you keep persisting with. You might as well tell us once and for all precisely which bits of the constitution you wish to remove and the exact wording that you wish to add as a replacement/extension. Instead of just vague comments about needing to change the constitution.

Foxy,
Show me one (1) privilege that non-indigenous have over the indigenous.

What does a closed Gap entail ?

thinkabit, often the perpetrator is nowhere to be seen after the crime has been committed. Victim blaming is stock in trade for some. Remote communities account for about 20% of the Indigenous population, yet they receive the most attention from the racists and haters as dysfunctionality is easily identifiable in those communities where the vast majority are Aboriginal people. Fertile ground for a racists with a mobile phone, can bet your life you'll find kids and adults behaving badly. These communities are a 'gold mine' for some; "See, I told you the Darkie is no good, and I've got evidence right here on my mobile."

Foxy, have you even been struck by the fact that so many Forum Rednecks, how they have all this first hand knowledge of Aboriginal people in remote communities, and its all bad! I've got one up on them, I lived among the largest Aboriginal community in Australia for many years. Redfern Sydney.

Same old arguments between people who have no say in anything to do with the aboriginal problem - or any of the same tired old subjects dragged up ad nauseum by the same couple of people. Unless you are a politician, you are very rich, or you are a high ranking bureaucrat, your opinions are not worth a pinch of cocky poop.

ttbn, you seem to give enough of those cocky poop opinions. Remember the days on the forum when you were banging on about the joys of the new fascists party you have just joined. Unfortunately for you and the party, the public though you lot were all full of cocky poop! You tried to set yourself up as the unofficial forum arbitrator, but now you can only bang on about all the misery in your world.

Dear Paul,

I also grew up, worked, lived, and studied, amongst
the significant Aboriginal populations found in country
NSW, as already briefly mentioned, and of-course
in Western Sydney. I learned a great deal about the people
and their history.

Did you happen to watch the TV program last night about
the Central Australian Aboriginal Women's Choir?
It was beautiful.

thinkabit and individual,

Do your own research gentlemen. I've given a link that
you can click onto that will answer your questions.
I can't be held responsible for what you do or do not
understand. I don't have the inclination to continue to
explain things to you.

What a silly little man is Paul 1405; certainly undeserving of direct responses except from his also silly little cabal, which will continue to rule the roost as long as sensible posters keeping responding to him/them. A person to the right of the increasingly liberal-left Liberal Party starts out on his own, and he is automatically a "fascist" according to nutbag Paul the Green. At least Bernadi had the courage of his convictions, and gave voters the opportunity to change things. They didn't take that opportunity, as was their right, and we have to continue being sheep to the same appalling political class now proving how power-hungry it is, provided as they now are, with the only real opportunity they've had decades to scare the sheep shitless: good old Covid 19, which has seen all natural deaths miraculously disappear. And the sheep are running around in circles - when they are allowed out of homes - with the political dogs, elected and unelected, barking and nipping heels.

And, nobody's opinions are going to change a thing because 80% of Australia's population are bloody sheep.

There's a couple of quotes that seem
appropriate:

"Never argue with an idiot.
They will drag you down to their level
and beat you with experience."
(Mark Twain).

"I learned a long time ago, never to wrestle
with a pig. You get dirty and besides,
the pig likes it."
(George Bernard Shaw).

Kudos ttbn.

Thanks CM. But, no matter what I, you or anyone else say about Paul and the other two Cranks, their total lack of self awareness is bordering on autism. They will keep on pontificating in the belief that their drivel makes a difference, and that we really need to pay attention to them. You can bet that they have never wondered why they haven't done better in life, with all the wisdom they believe they have.

ttbn,

"At least Bernadi had the courage of his convictions, and gave voters the opportunity to change things. They didn't take that opportunity,"

What a load of poppycock, Bernadi was a pea hearted opportunists. All puffed up with his right to rule mentality, Bernadi acted like a petulant school kid when his fascists agenda was rejected by the voters, he took his bat and ball and sulked off to a well paid job as a raver for Murdoch on Sky. Unfortunately for the mugs, you being one, he took your dosh and left you high and dry to cry in your beer. Bad luck SUCKER!

Dear Paul,

What anyone of us does I think most normal people
will hope that it will make a difference. However
we've got to decide what kind of difference we want
to make. I think both of us tend to aim for the
positive. There's enough haters and nay sayers in
this world as we can see. It's good to be able to
balance things out.

"You will never reach your destination if you stop
and throw stones at every dog that barks."
(Winston Churchill).

ttbn- "They will keep on pontificating in the belief that their drivel makes a difference, and that we really need to pay attention to them. "

Answer-

Much of the time I don't take what they say at face value. War requires subtlety. Our role is merely to highlight the fallacy of their ideology- they try to cover it up by political correctness and appeal to so called equality. Communism is bait and switch (Conn-u-nism/ Socio-path-ism).

Take care mate

Dear Paul,

Did you realize that the forum was a "battle-field?"
And that there's commies amongst the posters?
We need to be careful who we associate
with or to whom we respond. A light needs to be shone
on these people. Who knows where they're lurking.

BTW - do you know what a "thunderbox" is?

My husband said some of these postings reminded him of
one. I'm not familiar with the term.

cont'd ...

Are the commies on the forum - Chinese?

Perhaps that's what's being referred to here?

Did you know that there were many commies in
the UK - or was it Nazis?

Interesting.

Foxy,
Not to be able to produce even one (1) privilege we supposedly have so many of is rather sad.
I'll make it a little easier for you with some examples from my personal experiences;
Schooling & return air travel every school holiday - free.
Health - free.
Housing - provided for much less than non-indigenous.
Bank Loans - 4%
Free TAFE & other courses - plus paid normal working hours.
Lax law - Police don't bother about little things like break ins.
All the above are available to a white woman married to an indigenous Man but not the other way round.
There are a number of other examples I could bring up given more time to to think about.
Now, please tell which of these us privileged white heterosexual males are beneficiaries to ?

Potty Paul,

I never liked Bernardi as a person, but he was and is a better man than a cheap little turd like you.

I don't begrudge the money I donated to his campaign, and I am not crying over it; certainly not in my beer, as I don't drink beer or alcohol in any form. You seem to be the one having a problem with booze or other substances. No sober person screeches like you do.

individual,

You've obviously not done any research as
I recommended to you earlier otherwise you
would not be prattling on again about "freebies"
and "free rides" given to our Indigenous people.
Why do you persist with believing these myths.

It's not only incorrect to say that our Indigenous
people receive undeserved special treatment but it's
wrong.

Again - do your research.

The government has no freebies for anyone. Programs need
to be tailored to people, especially those facing
hardship.

Aboriginal people did receive "special treatment". They
were not paid the same wages as non-Aboriginals for the
same work. They were not allowed in bars and theatres.
They were not allowed to speak their mother tongue.
And much, much, more. You seem to forget this "special
treatment" history.

I shall be happy to continue a discussion with you when
I can take you seriously - after you improve your knowledge
on the subject.

Until then I'm sure you'll find kindred spirits on this forum
that you can share your "knowledge" with.
I'm not one of them.

Again - do your research.
Foxy,
There's no more factual research than seeing & witnessing with one's own eyes.
What you're finding in your research is toeing-the-line write-ups by Academics & Bureaucrats feathering their own nests !

You seem to forget this "special
treatment" history.
Foxy,
You're implying that the Aborigines of then were the same as now. They weren't just as the invaders who were sent here against their will aren't the same as we are now.
You seem to forget that indigenous of then weren't paid in money because twhere could they have used it ? They weren't allowed into Bars because they couldn't tolerate alcohol just as many europeans couldn't because they weren't exposed to it due to non-availability.
None of the indigenous today are only doing well because our people were enough in numbers to gradually turn the situation around & the indigenous gradually caught up with so-called progress.
What are the main issues that today's indigenous focus on ?
Better, housing, better pay, better schooling, better health services, in fact every non-indigenous commodity & benefit known to modern people. They are getting it all.
They're getting compensated daily for for a way of life that they have come to like & want to continue. The other thing is that many of the modern indigenous have not endured the sufferings that their ancestors & the ancestors of the invaders had to cope with.
The many decent real indigenous outside the suburbs are not sharing in the anarchists games !

Hi Foxy,

There is a commonly held belief among many Australians that Aboriginal people are given all these "freebies" from government. This notion is a myth, but it is propagated by people like the all seeing Indy. They reinforce these myths with; "I've seen it with my own eyes." Indy is a migrant to this country, back in the 60's it was a belief among many Australians that in some way new arrivals were given "free housing" and a saloon passage into a well paid job. How often one would hear the catch cry "The wogs have got all the houses!" If this claim was true then Indy got a free house and a top paying job. There was reference in those days to the "Ten Pound Pom", $20 being the contribution made by the immigrant towards his ships passage from England to Australia, after that the new arrivals had to make their own way.

http://www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/culture/article/2016/12/07/heres-truth-about-free-ride-some-australians-think-indigenous-peoples-ge

Name calling ttbn, do I get under your skin with the truth?

Paul1405,
I never got a house given for being who I am. I had to work AND pay for what I have.
The housing for migrants you're talking about was housing provided for remote area work such as communities & the Snowy scheme. As soon as the work was done the hoses had to be vacated. Those who remained eventually paid off the homes. No freebies there.
All seeing ? Yes I saw it all, from ruined machinery to wages paid for not even being at work etc.
I have also seen nice housing destroyed by domestic violence AND still see it every now & then.
What you need to admit is that everything non-indigenous have is accumulated by years of working.
Non-indigenous never took ANYTHING off the indigenous that they had to put in an effort to procure. Land that they frequented in various seasons was taken from them but again they never had to put any effort in procuring that land.
The Australian indigenous have been compensated & still are being compensated for that land to a far greater value than what they got out of the land. Ask any of them if they want to go back to that existence ?
I have a lot of sympathy for the treatment many endured black or white. What about your white heritage ? Have you apologised & given back to the indigenous for what your white heritage did ?
Admit that you can only criticise with the benefit of hindsight & you're exploiting this hindsight
rather hypocritically instead of seeing it in the context of the prevailing era.
You are not helping to close the Gap, you're doing your utmost to keep it in place !
Shame on you !

Dear Paul,

You're right. I forget that there's a huge gap in
some mindsets on this forum - and it's a
gap that won't be closed any time soon (smile).

As my husband keeps telling me - don't take it
personally. They can't help themselves. That's
what they do. In the "olden days" they'd pick
fights outside pubs - that my parents witnessed.
Well to these guys - they're still stuck in that
time-warp and aren't capable of moving on. Whereas
the rest of the country has. Basically they're a
minority and totally irrelevant.

Austral;ia will not only survive without them - but
prosper. Yay!

A wonderful chap from a great family (RIP now) was a tourist guide for some years. His comment to questions from tourists were “ I was stolen but if I hadn’t been I would be dead by now”.
Millions tipped into the Aboriginal industry with little to show. The outstation movement around Central Australia as one. How many wrecked and abandoned houses would you like to see out in the scrub, out of sight, out of mind. Aboriginal enterprises and organisations hit the wall owing big dollars, open up within a few weeks with another name and repeat again. We paid for our kids education, travel (18 hours in a bus) and expenses. They still have good mates who were flown to school, all expenses paid. On occasions the plane would fly back empty because they were not ready to go or had more important things to do, like spend time out in the mustering camp.Would not mind the payouts if it was just a little bit more of a level playing field.

The aboriginal communities were given the opportunity to move into larger communities to give better health and education srevices and better housing with electricity and running water, but they preferred to stay in isolation. So it will be interesting to see how this money is wasted on trying to close the gap, while they prefer to stay where they are without employment and the services we rely upon.

GBC,
I have witnessed what you're saying. I'm at a loss what could be done about the Foxy's of this World & the Paul1405's callously exploiting that ignorance.
Meanwhile, the true Aborigines are still at the mercy of their at times questionable indigenous status of their mouth pieces from the concrete jungles who syphon off the funding destined for communities..
I only recently listened to an "indigenous" on ABC Radio who's family I know & both sides are Asian. He's not the only one playing that racket.
I feel sorry for the indigenous who because of cultural protocol can't stand up to the racketeers.

We can't expect to keep doing the same things
over and over again and expect different results.
That's bordering on insanity.

Why not this time listen to the advice being given
for ages by the Aboriginal leaders and communities.
Consult with them and try doing what they ask.
They want self-determinatio0n - why not try that?
We can't keep making decisions for them and expect
them to continue doing as they're told. Yes a lot
of money has been thrown at them in the past - but
unfortunately it's never reached those and places that
needed it.

Foxy says "They want self-determinatio0n - why not try that?"

Well we have tried that! That video I linked to earlier with the street fighting is from Aurukun in Far North Queensland. Aurukun is a closed aboriginal community. It is run by them and they control who can and can't enter it (for the general public to visit or move there you need to get a permit). The resulting shocking social dysfunction of implementing a self-governing scheme for this community speaks for itself!

Kudos Individual, GBC.

We've all heard the problems that are part and
parcel of Aboriginal regional
communities pointed out to us over and over again.
From the:

Lack of services
Lack of medical care
Little education
High unemployment
Staff exhaustion
Decaying infrastructure
Broken families
High crime rate
Ineffective government programs

And the fact that governments have neglected basic services
and infrastructure for decades.

However, the good news is so we're told -

"The Australian Government has been moving in a new way
of working with indigenous leaders and communities - one
that supports indigenous ownership and enables true
partnership with Government and recognises the diversity of
cultures and circumstances of Indigenous Australians."

"This aligns with the Government's commitment to ensure
Indigenous communities are involved in local and regional
decision making."

There's more at the following link:

http://www.niaa.gov.au/indigenous-affairs/empowered-communities

Lack of services
Lack of medical care
Little education
High unemployment
Staff exhaustion
Decaying infrastructure
Broken families
High crime rate
Ineffective government programs

Foxy,
Is that your idea of being funny ? Or, are you really so indoctrinated & ignorant ? You really don't have a clue do you ?

No one can dispute these vague accusations made against Aboriginal people, in fact they may well be true. What can't be disputed is only 20% of Aboriginal people live in remote communities and they with their unique set of problems make easy targets for those with an axe to grind on Aboriginal issues. Claims that there are those cashing in on the so called Aboriginal industry, if you have this insider information, I challenge you to name anyone you suspect of doing just that.

name anyone you suspect of doing just that.
Paul1405,
You of all people should know that doing so would put anyone at the wrath of these insidious Bureaucrats !
I'm starting to get the feeling that you're being lied to also by the likes of the aforementioned !

individual,

Talk to the hand.
And if you have any questions -
consult my middle finger!

There you see I do have a sense of humour!

There you see I do have a sense of humour!
Foxy,
Nah, not really, you always resort to that when you're desperate for a sensible reply !

Aboriginal identifiers have been hoovering up public money for generations; they are still not happy, and they never will be happy. Money is not the answer for their problems, and the "gap" is a myth.

This from our resident thunderbox

Gotta laugh!

individual,

Resorting to humour is better than giving someone
a black eye!

Foxy,
Even better would a sensible reply because no humour can conceal ignorance & other peoples' experiences !

individual,

Exactly!

Practice what you preach!

Foxy,
Several of us here do that quite a lot but some including you refuse to accept reality !

individual,

You need to change your eyes which see reality
otherwise nothing will change. Therein lies
the difference between us.

My reality is the dream of yesterday, which is
the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow.

Telling people what they can't do or what can't
happen achieves nothing productive. But focusing
on what they can do just may achieve something
good.

Foxy,
You're making it more clear with every post that the 'Gap' will not close as long as we have people like you & Paul1405 et al !

individual,

What on earth does that even mean?

What on earth does that even mean?
Foxy,

I'm sure many of the others won't need to ask that !

Kudos Individual

individual,

Run!

Foxy

Maybe my post to you will not be posted.

Closing the Gap Statement with further $$$$$'s - why?

When nothing has been addressed in the past decades for Indigenous Communities.

1. Extensive continued child abuse within communities - has this been addressed via Activists - no - they are silent.

2. Children not attending school - with no consequences. Has this issue been addressed by Activists who are "so called" concerned with indigenous children - not to my knowledge.

3. Children wandering around the city at night - children at the age of 9 plus years of age, their reason being "It's safer on the streets than at home"....seriously?

Has this issue been addressed by Activists stating our Government not "Closing the Gap"?

If -according to Activists - Australia isn't "closing the gap". When then do the Indigenous Community take responsibility for their own children in ensuring they are being brought up in a safe and secure home situation.

Hi SAINTS,

We need to rightly ask those questions and look at
all the causes, not just point out the problems but
look at the causes and the solutions. Pointing out
the problems only - and blaming blaming and looking
at only one side of the coin is not enough.

However as already mentioned - the Government's new
approach of working with Indigenous leaders and
Indigenous communities and making sure that they are
involved in all decision making that concerns them
is worth a try. Self determinatio0n is what they've
been asking for all along and have been ignored.
And the funding that they have received thus far has
not gone to where it was needed.

This new approach is worth trying.

cont'd ...

Hi SAINTS,

Here's a link that I think is worth a read:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/apr/07/white-australia-cant-solve-black-problems-white-australia-is-the-problem

Makes you think.

From the Guardian,
The system is not working. It has never worked for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

Why not try a different approach in which the indigenous are working instead of the system ?

individual,

The Government is now trying a difference approach
let's hope it works.

Let’s cut out the racism and treat all Australians equally.

Foxy you got one thing wrong when you say, "working with Indigenous leaders". What you should have said was working with indigenous gravy train riders.

Nothing is going to work no matter how much of our wealth we throw into the black hole of aboriginal problems, until we get rid of 99% of those so called indigenous leaders.

The last thing these people want is problems fixed, as it might derail their gravy train.

Is Mise,

Our Indigenous people have never been treated as
equals. That's the sad part.

It's time they were . The truth about their history
be told. And they had a say in the policies that
affect them.

Hasbeen,

There are "gravy train riders" on all sides.
However that doesn't mean we should not try to solve
the existing problems - not by doing what hasn't worked
but by trying something new - as the Government is
now attempting to do.

The Government is now trying a difference approach
Foxy,
Wouldn't it be great if there was a willingness to make it work. Unfortunately, there are too many on both sides who don't want their gravy train coming to a stop just because of harmony in society !

The answer is treating them as equals like Ask Barty, Jacinta Price, Cathy Freeman, Warren Mundine, Charles Perkins, Neville Bonar, Evyonne Goologong and hundreds of others quiet achievers. These are equal, but some continue to tell us the aboriginals are not equal - like Foxy.

They left to survive in our culture will achieve but by continuing to pay the rent they can just sit back and they will be looked after on the working people's purse. Everybody else coming here as imigrants from third world countries soon learn the system of disiplined responsibility to provide for their families.

Josephus,

You need to stop believing the Murdoch myths
and learn the truth especially before you
spit things out on the forum.

learn the truth
Foxy,
What, from the Guardian ? I'm not sure about conspiracy outfits being too focussed on that !

Hi Foxy,

A different approach is what's needed, targeted sustainable programs funded by government, but led by Aboriginal people themselves. How to overcome the negativity of the bigots and haters with their; "look at darkie, how bad he is." mantra is difficult, and those in the present government who believe Aboriginal people are undeserving, and ask for too much.

Just on books, I've picked up Julia Banks 'Power Play', have a few to read due to library closedown for a week during the lockdown here in Brisbane, how's it down your way?

There are a couple of gaps here that need closing.

BLM is an agenda to play one race against another. It is not working in the USA where African Americans have taken up education and employment and family responsibilities. African Americans are some of the highest paid sports persons in America. To be constantly telling them they are not equal to another rase is demeaning and ignorant nonsense.

I do not know where Foxy gets the idea I just believe the Murdock Press, when I neither read the Murdock Press or their News Channels. But I have studied human psychology enough to know what motivates people to achieve when there is food and goods available in exchange for work. That is the difference between just sitting at a desk reasding reports and getting involved in a community and getting your hands dirty and involving others.

We have done that exactly a few times Paul. It has made a few aboriginal "leaders" & their entire families quite wealthy, but has done stuff all for the average.

Such "Leaders" are very noisy in the knowledge that government will oil the squeaky wheel wasting more tax payer money to try to quieten them.

Doing the same thing hoping for a different out come is of course the definition of insanity.

Josephus,

I don't believe anything you tell us about yourself.

If you did even half of what you claim. You would
not have such a narrow- world view.

Dear Paul,

I agree with you about the approach the Government
should try by involving Indigenous leaders and
communities. Exclusion and division has never
inspired any one to change their ways - especially
young people. Teachers can make a world of difference
in a child's life as we know. Infortunately, good
caring teachers are a rare breed. Putting children
down instead of lifting them up has negative
effects.

As for books? At the moment I've ordered a book
that should be interesting from "Readings," -
"Stalin's Englishman," by Andrew Lownie. Its
about Guy Burgess and the Cambridge Spy Ring.
It's been reduced to $16.99 (normal price was
$39.99). Sounds like a good read.

cont'd ...

Dear Paul,

Back to the subject.

There's a couple of other books that you might be
interested in getting hold of (if you haven't
already done so). " Black and Blue,"by Veronica
Gorrie who was an Aobriginal police officer. It's
a memoir of racism and resilience. Anita Heiss's
novel - "River of Dreams," on colonisation, and
of course Stan Grant's "With The Falling of The
Dusk," which is a good read - and shows where
we are today and how we got there.

Now do not tell me Stan Grant lives off aboriginal welfare. Surely Not?That Foxy would want us believe he is a second class citizen not equal to any other Australian. It is this attitude that breeds division and fires BLM.

Josephus,

Paul asked me for book titles. I gave him a few suggestions
including the one by Stan Grant. Why on earth would
you think Stan Grant is on welfare?
Because of his Indigenous ancestry? What does that say
about you?
Once again - your narrow world-view is showing.

For your information:

Stan Grant - apart from being an Australian TV news
and political journalist and TV presenter since the 1990s
is also a writer on Indigenous and other issues. As of 2021
he holds the Vice Chancellor's Chair of Indigenous
Studies at Charles Sturt University.

On welfare indeed!

Shame on you!

cont'd ...

Josephus,

And your claim that I would want people to believe that
Stan Grant is a second-class citizen? That opinion of
yours should be hurled with full force where the sun
doesn't shine and you along with it - you ignorant creature!

Stan Grant has been blessed with mixed genes judging by his appearance & intellect.

Stan Grant was brought up by a father who did well for himself in the same modest way that the middle classes did in his era. He worked, was a suburbanite, and owned his own home. Stan is not an example of a downtrodden person of any race, and would have no idea of the lives of traditional aborigines.

Stan Grant's parents met while living on an
Aboriginal reserve outside the rural NSW town
of Griffith.

Much of Grant's childhood was one of bare-bones poverty,
transient, itinerant, no permanent home or consistent
schooling. His family was Aboriginal enduring a legacy
of state- sanctioned discrimination and a history often
marked by brutality. The following link to his
biography has more:

http://www.ia.anu.edu.au/biography/grant-stan-17827

cont'd ...

My apologies. Here's the link again:

http://ia.anu.edu.au/biography/grant-stan-17827

The fact is Foxy, that Stan Grant is an example of my very claim. If you are hungry enough and there is food available for work you will work for food. However you want us believe giving them more welfare programes is the answer when that does not work. Read my lips!

They are part of Australia and have equal access to all that is offered, they do not need to be treated as third world, they just need to be made aware they are now in first world opportunities. EDUCATION!

Josephus,

When you have done your research and know the
facts then we can continue this conversation.
In the meantime you need to get an education.

Foxy if you have real examples of what works from experience then share your research. The thing is you have no research of what works - just reports of problems. What is the research that works? You only have bluff otherwise you would share facts that work.

Instead of giving a hungry man money, give him a meal for a job. How often have we just given a man claiming hunger money and he puts it in the pohies in the hope of winning more money, when we should have offered to sit and have a meal with him and listened to his story.

Often being the first to Church near the railway Station and the local Pub I had someone come asking for money to travel to see family several hundred miles away, who was dying. The Church is, they feel a soft touch, so I would go and offer to buy the train ticket - however a train ticket was not what they wanted, someone was delivering drugs and they did not have the cash when the train came in - was the problem. More Money is not the answer, changed attitudes and behaviours are - and that applies universally to every culture.

Josephus,

Kudos. Well said!

BTW:

Josephus,

I've already made it quite clear that more money
is definitely not the answer and that doing the
same things over and over again and expecting
different results is bordering on insanity.
A new approach is needed.

Hi Foxy,

The naysayers on the forum would have everyone believe that its all been one big failure when its comes to the Aboriginal people, nothing could be further from the truth, there has been countless success stories. What has to be tackled are the areas of failure, and those failures are identified in the 'Closing The Gap' report. Despite the best of intentions, and a lot of money, the problems still exist. It is reasonable to take a different approach to the one that hasn't worked in the past. Optimistically I believe a new approach will give much better results.

There's hope for a brighter future.

Paul1405,
Agree, money can't buy good will !

Dear Paul,

There certainly is hope for a brighter future for
our Indigenous people. Stan Grant has expressed
some interesting views in the following link
that is worth a read:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02013/stan-grant-we-know-how-to-close-the-gap/9425552

cont'd ...

Dear Paul,

Stan Grant mentions in the link - Maria Lane.
She was Joe Lane's wife (Loudmouth). It explains
a great deal about Joe.

I miss the bloke very much.

Perhaps it is time to realise that there are always going to be people who fail. There are plenty of white & brindle no hopper failures, drug addicts, alcoholics, & just plain bludgers who suck for ever on the tax payer teat. Why shouldn't there be aboriginal no hopers too?

Then we have spent decades training those in out stations to expect government to do everything for them, expecting no effort from them. We have been much more successful with these lessons, than we have with the 3 Rs, & now we are surprised when they don't want to get off their spreading ass to do something for themselves. What damn stupidity.

The only approach likely to be successful would be to totally withdraw from the settlements, & let those living in them decide to come in to society, or stay with traditional practices. It really is not our decision. If they want healthier educated lives, great. If not that is their decision. Getting them stuck in the middle helps none, but the bureaucrats profiting from their department easy jobs.

It is like what is happening in Afganistan, after trillions of dollars spent and hundreds of lives lost, the locals do not value their freedom enough to fight so they just surrender to the enemy. Those that value a better life rescue them with opportunity, those whose preference is the old way let them be.

Thanks Foxy,

I love reading Stan Grant, he sees an issue with a clarity that many can not. I think Maria Lane got it right, with her notion of Aboriginal people desiring to become part of the 'open society' of Australia. Unfortunately the haters are out there, people who point to specific examples of Aboriginal failure, and there are many, they weaponize those failures to drive Aboriginal people down as underservicing trash. Is there ever a mention from this quarter of the Stan Grants and countless other success stories, no never.

I read the link you gave on Bruce Pascoe and 'Dark Emu', its not whether Aboriginal people were farmers or "mere" hunter/gathers that gets up the noses of the naysayers. Pascoe has the audacity to suggest that colonials viewed Aboriginal Australia in a different light than the one of the "poor darkie" which has been propagated by European Australia for over 200 years, and sits comfortable with the bigots and haters of today.

What heritage does Stan Grant have, he certainly isn't full blood Aborigine.

The racist slur! "he certainly isn't full blood Aborigine" used to bring into question the bona fides of a person who identies as Aboriginal and question their motives as to what they say. Aboriginal people were raped, sexually abused and even loved by white people, that in no way questions the aboriginality of their offspring.

Paul1405,
I knew you'd take the bait without blinking ! ..question the bona fides of a person who identifies as Aboriginal..
There you go, I'm Aboriginal also !

Paul are you trying to garner sympathy for what you believe an underclass. Stan Grant is an equal and a standard in our society not an underclass as you try to identify him as. He does not need sympathy for who he is.

Josephus,
Stan Grant actually has an at least theoretical advantage as he obviously benefits from mixed genes however, he chooses to acknowledge only one side, that of the one with the most political pull.

individual,

Actually Stan Grant's Aboriginal heritage has shaped
his resilient personality. He was born on an
Aboriginal Reserve near the rural town of Griffith,
NSW. His parents met on the reserve. Stan Grant's
mother is from the Kamilardi people and his father -
Stan Grant Snr. is an elder of the Wiradjuri people

Foxy,
That may be so but he definitely has non-Aborigine genes in his heritage. Nothing wrong with that, I wish I was a mixed race. What is questionable is the fact that mixed race Aborigines always identify as Aboriginal when they're clearly of mixed heritage.
It is no secret why this is done yet when it comes to colonisation bashing they conveniently disregard their 'other' heritage. They should at least partly acknowledge responsibility for their non-indigenous genes !
I know quite a number of people whose heritage is not Aborigine yet they claim indigenous status. I just happen to believe this to be hypocritical.
Acknowledging that would go a long way towards closing that Gap !
I believe the colonisers of Australia, mainly the British, have put in a lot of effort to compensate for their wrongs & those who live now have done so & the descendants of the mistreated indigenous recipients of yesteryear have been compensated more than any other group of people on the planet. I have never heard this to be acknowledged.

individual,

How have they been compensated more than any other
people on the planet?

Foxy,
Are you employed by the guilt industry ? It'd explain why you never come back with answers !
Also, I wonder if Paul1405 will ever try to see the show from this side of the fence.

individual,

Stop dodging and answer my question.

How exactly have our Indigenous people been
so privileged thus far?

cont'd ...

individual,

Here's a link that explains:

http://www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/culture/article/2016/12/07/heres-truth-about-free-ride-some-australians-think-indigenous-peoples-get

Foxy,
Is copy/paste what you call thinking ? Well, it's not !
To go back to your question which really should be an answer, Give us one (1) example of what YOU think the indigenous aren't privileged to that non-indigenous are. Just one !

When my wife was foster caring for children, if she took in an aboriginal child she received more funding than a child from a similar neglected while environment She refused to discriminate on what she provided for each child as she saw the additional payments as racial discrimination based on skin colour. She provided equally for each, without preference or discrimination; which the child welfare system provided on race basis. They promoted racial discrimination within the welfare system, instead of equality.

Josephus,
What the Foxys' & the Paul1405's of this world are doing is to make everything about race because it is the most opportunistic method of preventing harmony from getting the upper hand.
This insidious tactic deliberately ignores that the bulk of our arguments is NOT about race, it's about personal & common effort & initiative. It's a mixture of acknowledging past wrongs & to work on making things better from here on. Making things better not only simply with funding but also with offering paths to a healthier mentality which includes initiative & respect & responsibility. The last three encounter the most opposition from those who claim perpetual discrimination !

Hi Indy,

"I wonder if Paul1405 will ever try to see the show from this side of the fence." No I don't want to see the show from the bigoted, hateful side of the fence, I'll leave that to you. One of the first things people like you do what an aboriginal person such as Stan Grant speaks out is to question their aboriginality, as if they are some mongrel type who has no right to address these issues. You never question the Australianess of the likes of Andrew Bolt whose parents were Dutch immigrants, when they speak on aboriginal issues.
BTW; "I'm Aboriginal also !" please explain.

Hi Jose'

I don't know how you misconstrue my words on Stan Grant as; "trying to garner sympathy for what you believe an underclass." As I said earlier; "The naysayers on the forum would have everyone believe that its all been one big failure when its comes to the Aboriginal people, nothing could be further from the truth, there has been countless success stories."

BTW Special needs children often receive higher funding to accommodate their special needs, nothing to do with their skin colour.

Paul Foster care payments were not based on special needs in the 1960 - 1980s extra payments were based upon aboriginality. They may have classed as special needs but they received equal care as any child fostered.

Paul1405,
I almost feel sorry for your desperation to find an excuse to avoid accepting facts.
Re Stan Grant, do you have anything we can watch or read where he acknowledges the privileges that got him to where he is ?

individual,

You've already been given lots of examples in
this discussion of the way Indigenous people
have been treated in this country over the
decades and the vast differences between them
and the rest of us. Go back and re-read the
given examples including what Stan Grant
feels should be done to close the gap.

Here are two more links that you may have not read:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-13/stan-grant-knows-how-to-close-the-gap/9425552

And -

http://www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/culture/article/2016/12/07/heres-truth-about-free-ride-some-australians-think-indigenous-peoples-get

Foxy,
I'd like to nominate you as the right-out winner of evading answers !

individual,

Passing the buck again.

Tsk. tsk!
But I guess you can't do any better!

Talk to the hand.

When they have no answer one's getting silly & the other goes quiet !

Indy,

The privileges Stan Grant was subjected to were hard work and effort, something you are not familiar with as you swing from the taxpayer teat. Can you describe that free taxpayer house and cushy well paid job you received when you arrived in Australia. Same sort of question.

Paul1405,
If you can't answer don't bother with evasive quips. I ask again; what privileges do non-indigenous enjoy that an indigenous doesn't ! Just one (1) example will do !
Foxy can't find a link so you're the next choice !

individual,

Non-Indigenous have the following privileges:

1) Longer lives.
2) Lower rates of infant mortality.
3) Better health.
4) Higher levels of education and employment.
5) Lower child removal rates.
6) Lower community and family violence.
7) Higher wages.
8) Lower rates of imprisonment.
9) Better representation in Parliament.

And the lists go on and on.

Foxy,
These aren't privileges, these are genetics & mentality, self discipline issues. I'm asking for those "privileges" that you et al are constantly pushing !

individual,

I disagree with you. It has nothing to do with genetics
but on the fact that Indigenous people have been and
still are disadvantaged in Australia. Inequality is what
Indigenous people have to face every day of their lives.
Which includes the lack of all the privileges that
I listed that the non-Indigenous have.

We shall have to agree to disagree on this one.

Foxy, now that you have identified 9 though disputable disadvantages, please put foward how you would close the gap on each of these issues that you expect the government to change.
.
) Longer lives.- Genetic
2) Lower rates of infant mortality.- Genetic
3) Better health. - food choice
4) Higher levels of education and employment. - motivation
5) Lower child removal rates.- family behavioural choices
6) Lower community and family violence. - Lack of moral direction
7) Higher wages. - they receive the same wage for the same work - employment choices
8) Lower rates of imprisonment. - current rates to other races are the same.
9) Better representation in Parliament They have several representatives in Parliament to % of population.

Currebtly there are nine persons identifying as aboriginal in either State or Federal Parliament. Ken Wyatt is a senior member of the aboriginal community. When you say they want better representative in Parliament - to them it means more Government hand out to each person identifying as aboriginal.

Josephus,

Enough recommendations have already been made but
government has brushed those aside and chooses to
ignore them. Hopefully the new approach that they
are planning to take will have better results.

As for the Indigenous Reps in Parliament. They
represent their electorates and can't speak on their
own people's behalf. They have asked for a voice
to Parliament but this has thus far been denied.

Foxy, of the nine issues you have identified, How should the Government close the gap?
1] ans 2] interbreed with other races
3] and 4] forcibly remove them from their bush huts to towns and Council employment.
5[ and 6] Isolate them from drugs and alcohol and educate them in family values - teach Christian living.
7] and 8] will improve with benifits from the former.
9] Let them be part of society.

I’m all for a voice to Parliament and the sooner the better.

Josephus,

I'm not sure what new things the government
is planning to do but your suggestions
make sense to me.

..government has brushed those aside and chooses to ignore them..
Foxy,
That's untrue !
So many options have been tried but once it is realised that no matter how much good will is deployed, when there's no good will to accept then shelving options is the logical way.
There is no way to close this Gap when the people bleating for it to not want to close the gap !

individual,

So the government has agree to the Uluru Statement
of The Heart and not brushed it aside?

Well you must have some private information that the
rest of us don't. Care to provide some evidence of
that.

you must have some private information that the
rest of us don't.
Foxy,
No private information, it's there for all who want to see, to see !

“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine

Foxy,
For you !

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1617/Quick_Guides/UluruStatement

I am with Warren Mundine comments.

We do not need another Government body to represent a particular race.

Josephus,

The Voice to Parliament that is being asked is
going to be separate from Parliament. It is merely
an advisory body.

individual,

Thomas Paine also said:

"These are the times that try a man's soul."

And -

"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another,
and it becomes my duty to guarantee as as to possess."

The Voice will not work because it is a one-size-fits-all solution to what are, essentially, cultural problems affecting a culturally diverse range of people. The vocal majority might blackmail and browbeat government into giving them the baubles they want – change the date, change the flag, constitutional recognition etc, etc – but the real disadvantage, the real stain on our nation, will continue until we find a way to do what needs to be done. We already know what that is – get the children educated and the adults into proper work. Apparently, we don’t yet know how to do that, but one thing is certain. The answer will not come from the Voice.

It may well not work. However they're asking
to have a voice in decisions that affect them
which seems like a reasonable request, plus
the fact that it's not binding - therefore
their advice doesn't need to be taken. But at
least when we've tried everything else and it
hasn't worked - why not try this, as they ask.
We can at least try it.

We can at least try it.
Foxy,
We should give those who show premise a go, not the useless yelpers from the Left's Unis !
Remote communities have already shown they can do it but then the Govts sent in bureaudroids to arrest progress ! Queensland's D.A.I.A did a reasonable job until it became saturated with Labor cronies who did nothing but sabotage the slow but never-the-less gradual progress.

Don't lets finger-point or keep telling us who's to
blame. Let's not make this political. Or speak about
what can't be done. Instead let us stay positive
and focus on what we need to do and what can be done.
Only in that way perhaps some progress can be made.
Blaming the blame game is such a waste of resources.

Foxy,
Staying positive by excusing the cause ? Sorry, but I refuse to play that insidious game !

Guess what. All the tosh being bruited about here by posters is not going to make a damn of difference. Positive. Negative. Who cares. Decisions are made by a very few people, aware that none of the racist nonsense would get past a referendum. Wrong or stupid decisions will be made, as always, without the help of keyboard warriors living in fantasy land.

Dreams don't work unless you do!

Or as Jonas Edward Salk said:

" Hope lies in dreams, in imagination and in
the courage of those who dare to make dreams
into reality."

individual,

I agree with the Dalai Lama:

"Choose to be optimistic.
It feels better."

Foxy,
I would not have thought the Dalai Lama being hypocritical !

individual,

He's not.

But then to you - anyone who doesn't agree with
your perspective on things always is.

You need a bigger screen to get the full picture.