Durban SA

Black lives are in total disarray, as rioters take over the town.

Should we send in some left wing BLM battalions from recent riots in US to help out?

Do Black Lives Matter?

All decent Lives matter !

An opportunity for one of the Forums far right posters to gloat over the misfortune of other people. Does anyone think this bloke would give a rats about black people in South Africa?

Senseless violence perpetrated against people, black or white of any race in any country, be it South Africa, America, Australia or elsewhere is wrong.

Paul 1405

You are such a girl. Why do you believe that black lives need the likes of yourself to protect them and fight their causes?
Blacks a pretty advanced at defending their own causes, by evidence in the world generally as a rule.

Durban is a typical example, and it’s an appropriate example as it explodes into a lawless rabble, shooting itself in the foot as it goes about it.

These blacks are highly racist too Paul. In the late forties, similar riots in Durban were responsible for 150 deaths, and the burning a looting of vast areas of Durban commercial districts. And here is the uncomfortable part Paul, they were acts of violence aimed at Indians.

Maybe you should pack up your family and take a holiday in South Africa, guarantee you’d come home (maybe) with a different idea on the downtrodden blacks!

"How can it not be a state of emergency? How much cheaper can life get in South Africa?"

This from a woman interviewed by BBC reporter. The blacks Governing the blacks doesn’t seem to work too well Paul, by this evidence!

Dan

Remember Africa is still tribal though its has been brought into the 21st century economically, so they follow tribal elders as heroes. Their culture is not international acceptance or unifying of all peoples. Mandella learned this in prison, but after his death the old tribalism arose again. Mandella learned it was not about race but the character of people, but it is evident the current SA is still fighting a race war.

This is unlike most American Negroes who are proud Americans who have entered into Western culture and justice.

According to the BBC it was the jailing of
former President Jacob Zuma (for corruption)
that instigated the violence. Add to this
low level incomes and unemployment - these
are seen as the ticking bomb that exploded.

Many feel that the successor to Zuma - President
Cyril Ramaphosa has failed to provide decisive
leadership either to calm anger over Zuma's imprisonment
or to reassure South Africans they will be safe.

The complexity and necessity is for both sides to take a
long look at themselves and the way they've been
damaged by their past histories in more ways than they
are comfortable to admit. Of course that's not going to
happen any time soon.

The military has now been deployed to help police
overstretched since the unrest began last week.

The death toll has risen to 72. Black lives Matter.
But for South Africans - it's still a lesson that they
have to learn because the damage done by their past continues
to linger.

Josephus gets it.

I'm not sure what BLM, a Communist organisation with no particular roots to Africa, has to do with a lot of hoodlums rioting, smashing and stealing using -the well-deserved - jailing of Zuma as an excuse.

There is no hope for Africa, particularly since it has been turned over to the sort of people we are seeing on the news now.

Let us keep out of it before some Canberra dropkick wants to get involved to take our minds of our own problems. The way Australia is going, the same sort of stuff will be happening here.

Dan,

Thanks for providing a thread not started by number man or Mother Russia.

Tribal wars are not new they have been happening for thousands of years in Africa. It is not a BLM conflict as blacks fight blacks for control. Though the activits may be communists wanting control of the government, as the BLM in America. Communism gives hope of equal econonic benifits to all, but it will end the same a Venezeula.

DD,

Rather touchy there old cock, I detected more than a little cynicism on your part with; "Should we send in some left wing BLM battalions from recent riots in US to help out?" Can I extrapolate from that, you believe darkie can't look after himself. What is your concern?

The arrest of Jacob Zuma may well have been the catalyst that sparked these riots, but years of oppression and disadvantage is the underlying cause. "The blacks Governing the blacks doesn’t seem to work too well Paul," yes given past history you are correct. Maybe a battalion of bully boy rednecks led by you Dan could restore "law and order" along with the white mans rule.

* ALL LIVES MATTER *

All lives matter
Can't you folks see?
Black and white both need equality
So lets get rid of the infamy
That only whites matter
It's still called bigotry!

Someone mentioned South Africa. I'm one-quarter white SA; my grandmother lived in Jo'burg and married my Grandfather, a British soldier at the end of the Anglo Boer War. I've visited there on at least half a dozen occasions and have concluded that Blacks cannot rule a developed country like SA or Rhodesia (once the breadbasket of the African continent), another former Southern African nation I've visited, and I'm familiar with. The late Robert MUGABE will illustrate sufficiently, that fact.

Under Apartheid, many elements of the white minority community (predominantly the Boers) were hard-liners against the majority of black tribes and nations within SA, but the rule of law prevailed as did the whole of SA infrastructure. I do not support Apartheid, but it did work and at least the country was at peace and many blacks had jobs and a future.

On my second-last visit to see my great Aunt before she passed, her long-serving personal maid a Mashi woman said she and many of her family & friends wished that the Apartheid era would return so they could go about the streets and shop in safety and not fear being carjacked and murdered. Most private homes are like fortresses with high fences, guard dogs and a roaming armed security service. The police in SA are hopelessly corrupt, and their black superiors suppress the few decent white detectives in middle management. In my humble opinion, most of SA troubles stem from the corrupt decisions that flow from the Black Government in Pretoria.

Most SA Blacks come from proud (African) tribal lineages and are of the warrior class.
And all lives do matter.

Things will work out OK, we won’t send troops we’ll send food aid; pity that so much of South Africa’s once great farm land is no long producing food; strange that.

Tribal warfare is not just an African thing.

It is the history of Europe, just the tribes are bigger. It took a couple of thousand years for it to stop, if it really has in Europe, why should it take less time in Africa.

Yes it was depressed & controlled while the white man was in control, just as it was in New guinea & the Solomans. It is reemerging now with white justice diminishing. One of the things that help in the islands is geography. The geography makes it difficult for many of the tribes to get at each other, in any numbers.

The history of Aboriginal Australia is one of constant warfare, kept to small skirmishes due to their lifestyle being incapable of supporting large groups. It is probably only suppressed today by white justice imposed

Funny the differing views of history Hasbeen.

South Africa has squandered any advantages it had before the European white apartheid was abolished by the early BLM global attack against it.

Do you realise what you actually said above?

Viz #... Yes it was depressed & controlled while the white man was in control,...#

That is such a dumb uneducated statement, obviously you have no concept!
The sad state of South Africa now, is the example of the total damage caused by liberal left wing meddlers, and their fanatical bleating over BLM.

What the white rule achieved was not depression, but wealth and progress.
Back in the late 60’s, it had its own nuclear development programme supported by Israel and France. It was at the final stages of nuclear arming itself, and was in the process of building nuclear power generation, using its own uranium fuel.

So it had friends in the right places.

What friends has it now?

Now the other misconception you present as fact is human progress.
You missed the point that civilisation moved “out” of Africa into Europe.

While a European civilisation moved forward with technology with tenacity and hard work, what was left in Africa were the backward equivalence of our Australian aboriginal tribes, stuck in a time warp. At the least, our Aboriginal tribes did the same walk out of Africa as did the successful tribes of Europe, but alas, only to stagnate for thousands of years in a similar condition.

Josephus.
Great utube contribution. BLM is firmly under the jack boot of the rainbow flag.

Paul1405
No cynicism at all, only honesty!

When Apartheid moved out, BLM moved in and raised the victory rainbow flag.
It didn’t work out too well though did it!

Thanks to the other contributors above.

Dan

There is an excellent film entitled “Adio Africa” made in, iirc, the 1960s, shewing various parts of Africa, it’s rather gruesome in parts but they end up in RSA and there is peace and prosperity.

The expression should have been more accurately "Black Lives Matter Too" and it's not just about current events in South Africa.

The notion that granting equality to one group somehow takes away something from another is a vestige of typical White Supremacist thinking, seeing every concession as a potential threat. For them if it's not Jews or Muslims, there will always be blacks and Asians to blame for how their miserable lives may have turned out.

I remember when people were stranded in a sports arena during the Hurricane Katrina flooding of New Orleans. While waiting for help, some groups waded into the town to get food and water. In the media, the white people were labelled as "brave, resourceful and self-motivated" but the blacks were simply "looters".

A Republican Senator recently suggested that black people should be grateful to whites because it was white people who freed them from slavery and that's the warped mindset of so many.

A more sobering statement from a black woman was that we should be grateful that it's only equality they want and not revenge.

“Adio Africa”
is Mise,
I remember seeing that as a youngster, horrific stuff ! It was a crystal clear example of mob mentality such as we still see nowadays !
It's primed to go anywhere, anytime !

"Tribal Warriors", has tribal warfare ended for the European or has he just got better at it? 60 million dead as the Europeans fought each other over their tribal lands in WWII. The Russians are still seeking more tribal land for themselves. European invasions of other tribal lands in Korea, Vietnam, The Middle East and Afghanistan resulting in the deaths of more millions. If you're non European you are 100 times more likely to be "shot" in war, in your own land, by an invading American than by anyone else. These days it better for the European to take over economically than blow the place up and then take over.

Well said rache.

I feel like getting people with the mind set of Paul and Rachel by the shoulders and shaking them awake! How dumb and anti cultured are they?

Here’s a simple suggestion. Grab Plato’s Republic, start at the front and stay focused to the last page.

There is a view of Western Philosophy in a nut shell. This is the philosophy that drove the West so far in front of the Native laggers, still spearing themselves and clubbing their women captives over the head, making it easier to drag them to their caves.

Not much has changed has it!

I look forward to demolishing your fragile arguments against Western Philosophy, and your twisted view of history shortly, when time permits.

Dan

I have to agree with you diver dan, rache's rant is so racist it is unbelieveable nonsense. SA problems has little to do with white supremacy, except to say it is tribalism against Western taught values of property and justice as held by educated blacks. It is a conflict of two value systems held by blacks.

The violence also are attacks on the Indian population in Natal, who are business people. My sister and husband spent six years living and working in Natal among the Indian population, who were taken there to work among sugar cane plantations

Well the parallels are quite remarkable.

Jacob Zuma was a corrupt right wing populist.

Like him Trump is now facing multiple charges including tax fraud. As his empire inevitably crumbles it will be very interesting to see how his supporters react, particularly after the insurrectionist response of storming the seat of government after he lost the election.

The day Trump is marched off to jail will be very telling and the exponential growth of right wing militias will be a huge factor.

SR is blinded by American politicts and the agenda of the American Left. SA is not America, so there are different issues at play there, SA is reamerging as unleashed tribal conflict because their leader is captured.

Paul,
The European invasion of Korea?

First time I’ve heard the North Koreans described as Europeans.

SR

You underestimate your enemy.

The pogrom by the liberals ably supported by known protagonists of Democrats and MSM at home and abroad, (Au ABC eg), against Trump and the tarnishing of reputations of his followers, is nothing more than a Soviet type show trial of the 50’s.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn was considered a right wing traitor by the soviets remember?

I doubt your intelligence level could span the small step of similarities between the two.

But if you can, where do the victims of such injustice as we now observe in the US, take themselves for refuge from the terrors and show trials?

Now back to the realities of BLM, with its cargo cult mentality in SA, while they wait on the big black SA Government God, to miraculously appear and fill the plundered stores with food before they starve to death from stupidity.

Dan

There is a lot on Google about “Adio Africa”, both for and against.

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

For once, my friend, I agree with you. Indeed, Jacob ZUMA is corrupt like 99.9% of all black leaders. It's a tribal way of life for them, and believe it or not; some don't even consider it morally or legally wrong. A crude form of bartering or dealing if you like. If you promote me to the Chief Public Cashier of Bloemfontein, my family will look after you when you retire. A case of scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours.

Dear Diver Dan,

You wrote:

“The pogrom by the liberals ably supported by known protagonists of Democrats and MSM at home and abroad, (Au ABC eg), against Trump and the tarnishing of reputations of his followers, is nothing more than a Soviet type show trial of the 50’s. Alexander Solzhenitsyn was considered a right wing traitor by the soviets remember?”

What a load of simpering victimhood hogwash and you know it.

There were plenty of Trump appointed judges who look at the insanity of the final Trump manoeuvres to hold on to power and said no.

He was corrupt, his cronies were corrupt many being jailed while he was still in power, and many of his followers were determined to corrupt the election system.

And to contend that there is little tribal influence in US politics when 4/5th of the Black vote in the last election went to Democratic candidates is just bonkers.

Dear Josephus,

Poppycock. This from you: ”SA is reemerging as unleashed tribal conflict because their leader is captured” could just as easily read USA is reemerging as unleashed tribal conflict because their leader lost and election.”

And armed occupation of State houses is becoming run of the mill. Try and pick a black face in this lot.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/30/michigan-protests-coronavirus-lockdown-armed-capitol

The fact that you and good ol' Diver Dan want to transplant BLM to South Africa while ignoring the corrosive impact of populous right wing demigods screams victimhood.

Dear o sung wu,

Good to see you posting old chap.

I'm not denying that tribalism plays a part in SA or the US. My contention is they aren't a hell of a lot different when you boil it all down in either country.

Both Trump and Zuma were corrupt populists who flaunted the law and heightened divisions for their political ends. Both showed a high degree of nepotism and both were constantly fending off credible accusations of sexual transgressions.

Zuma's catchphrase '100% Zulu' was deliberately divisive as were Trump's attacks on people like Kapernick.

Trump's friendship with Putin and Zuma's ties to the Guptas echo each other.

And this description of Zuma is certainly reflective of how Trump operated:

“He rewards the people who would have challenged him by giving them cabinet positions. Many of these people who would have [spoken out] have a bone in their mouth, so they’re unable to bark too much.”

That Trump managed to have virtually the entire Republican party in his pocket by the end, even some of his harshest critics, speaks to this.

The type of unrest certainly differ to a degree but that is to be expected with notable differences in poverty levels.

And Zuma's legacy of large increases in GDP but accompanying increases in the poverty levels which had originally been so effectively brought down from the apartheid numbers may well be Trump's too.

SR. that you deliberately interpret the SA problems through the lens of The American BLM Communist V White Capitalist view bears little resemblence to the problems of SA. They are blacks murdering blacks.

Note: Zuma was convicted of resisting a court order to testify in a state-backed investigation into allegations of corruption during his nine-year term as president that ended in 2018.

Defense Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula told reporters at the news conference she did not believe current conditions warrant imposing a state of emergency.

Zuma's lawyer argued Monday before South Africa's Constitutional Court that Zuma should have his sentence rescinded. Judges on the court said they would consider the arguments and announce their decision at a later date.

The most severe riots in decades continue to rock South Africa, reportedly begun when socialist operatives objected to the conviction of former left-wing President Jacob Zuma.

Rioting, looting, and widespread — often xenophobic — violence began in Johannesburg and Durban, spreading to numerous cities over the weekend. “Parts of the country are reeling from several days and nights of public violence, destruction of property and looting of the sort rarely seen before in the history of our democracy,” said current South African President Cyril Ramphosa in a heartfelt address to the nation on Monday. “It started with the burning of trucks … in KwaZulu-Natal this past Saturday and was followed by blockades of roads in the northern parts of the province and the looting of shops.”

This has been exasibated by the current Covid situation causing shortages of food.

SR

You may wish to deny the obvious implications of the injustices of the Trump enquires which continue onward after the election, with renewed vigour.
If you can’t see a problem with those, your alone in a corner.

Trump of course, was more conservative with his approach towards the crimes of Democrats, and simply called them out for what they were.
The shame is though, he didn’t push harder for justice against the Clintons and their involvement with Epstein’s pedophile ring, operating in high places.
And the mystery of Epstein’s death remains just that, very mysterious.

Now here is a relevant question aimed at the thread ; Do Black Lives Matter?
Where is your answer on that? Your less than simmering liberal hate sessions qualify you to the next Democratic convention with a free rainbow flag as bonus!

I’ll answer from my perspective.
Regards Biden, the Blacks love child according to you. They would hardly vote for the return of the KKK by voting Republican would they. But obviously they have conveniently forgotten Biden’s past role in locking up the most blacks by proportion of all Democracies of the West, with his mandatory sentencing bill, one of his past chestnuts.
Blacks don’t matter to the Democrats, outside of a vote with very little choice in the decision that remains available to them.

Black lives do matter as cannon fodder to the BLM nutters. Observe link above re; Josephus.
BLM is an arm of the Gay rights movement. Which itself is an anti social Godless band of the queers who were once justifiably sidelined from normal society.

And obviously, under the rule of a Black orientated SA Government, Black Lives Matter very little, unless performing to the racist Ideals of Black rule.

Dan

My statement had absolutely nothing to do with what's happening in South Africa, which is a local civil conflict and nothing to do with the BLM movement generally.

The post started with a bizarre conflation of the BLM movement with South Africa which not only makes no sense but was a deliberate and provocative attempt at distortion and demonisation.

As for the irrelevant reference to Plato's Republic it's interesting that the concept of racism did not exist in ancient Greece.

Dear Josephus,

Mate you really need to acknowledge where you pinch stuff from. The Daily Wire is hardly top of the tree for credible sources but even so it is really bad form to be putting stuff up intimating it is yours.

The LA riots after the Rodney King beating cost a similar number of lives and inflicted a similar amount of property damage.

Deep inequities within a society often leads to the kind of violence we have seen at both. A fairer distribution of wealth goes a long way to alleviating the desperate want which accompanies looting.

Why is this such and anathema to you?

Dear Diver Dan,

You write: “BLM is an arm of the Gay rights movement. Which itself is an anti social Godless band of the queers who were once justifiably sidelined from normal society.”

Yawn.

Really mate, if you are going to post such fruit loop stuff we both know it is completely outside any parameters which would allow a rational debate on the topic, then why on earth would you expect a response to it?

But perhaps that is the reason why you do it. You justifiably feel outclassed. Well you need to suck it up princess because that ain't ever going to change.

SR.

I write: “BLM is an arm of the Gay rights movement. Which itself is an anti social Godless band of the queers who were once justifiably sidelined from normal society

There is no lie to this claim, I make a perfectly justified claim, whether you like my conclusions or not.
if you consider your own opinion as superior, as you say it is, then consider this:
Since if I say the sun does not rise in the East, I am actually, (against the apparent odds of being correct), more correct than one claiming it as fact, 363 times a year out of 365, since it only rises in the east two days a year!

All’s not necessarily as it seems as you can see.

Given histories norms, if you are so accepting of gay rights and their lying manipulation of the facts of life, I put this to you as a challenge.
Point to a precedence in the history of civilisation, where homosexuality has been projected onto a society as a superior notion of behaviour befitting of an elevation to a superior social class of that society, and befitting of recognition to rule over them!

I think I’m more correct in my view 363 times out of 365. So with which insignificant 2 do you win with your view. Your wrong for many reasons more than two.

Dan

the concept of racism did not exist in ancient Greece.
rache,
Would they have been aware of other races in those early days ?

Dear Diver Dan,

You write:

“Grab Plato’s Republic, start at the front and stay focused to the last page. There is a view of Western Philosophy in a nut shell. “

Or they could avail themselves of Plato's 'The Symposium' with all of Greece's paederasty on open display. The Catholic church certainly carried on in that fine tradition didn't they.

Greece was a formidable slave owning nation.

“The principal use of slaves was in agriculture, but they were also used in stone quarries or mines, and as domestic servants. Athens had the largest slave population, with as many as 80,000 in the 5th and 6th centuries BC, with an average of three or four slaves per household, except in poor families.”
Wikipedia

Aristotle described slavery as both necessary and natural.

The US Declaration of Independence announced "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" as inalienable rights while being one of the principal slave owning nations of the world.

Why do you think these 'fine' examples of Western thought were derived from nations which hardly practiced what they preached? Perhaps guilty consciences might have been at play. Or even the leisure time provided by others slaving away on your behalf.

An aside released yesterday;
Breaking news from the USA:
The results of the audit in Maricopa County, Arizona, have stunned local residents and investigators.
According to official information, 74 thousand ballots received during the election of the new president of the United States in the Federal election of 2020, were not marked as ever having been mailed out.
Further, thousands of ballots in Arizona had unreadable serial numbers and many had no serial numbers at all.

I would not be surprised at all to see the reappearance of Obama.
That would make for a cushy little family reunion, and reinforce the Image of BLM, and a master stroke of genius for Gay rights.

Dan

Aristophanes It was that derided homosexuals for their propensity to becoming Politicians. Not wrong there.

And on your other misconception. The Catholic Church was torn apart with gross homosexual acts, 90% of those acts were against juveniles, not babies.

And all civilisations traded in slaves right through ancient history, and way into the Middle Ages.

Do you get anything right? You’ve had little satisfaction so far!

Dan

SR,

There is not a single race or culture that has not got a blood-soaked past and a connection to slavery including pretty much every African "nation".

As for solving the violence induced by the BLM movement, there is already a pile of money being thrown at it including affirmative action which seems to have achieved little to nothing.

BLM appears to have been designed to capture sympathy but their antics back-fired !
I feel for the many decent black people who have no part in this but are inevitably viewed & regarded in the same light as the anarchists !

Do Black Lives Matter?

Yes.

WTF

Please press button marked “vote”, for your vote to be counted...Or...press button marked “comment” for your opinion to be voted on.

Dan

Meanwhile Aussies all around the world stranded...
(And part of me thinks they should be)

Caitlyn Jenner flies into Sydney for Celebrity Big Brother

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/reality-tv/caitlyn-jenner-flies-into-sydney-for-celebrity-big-brother-while-thousands-of-aussies-remain-stranded/news-story/990e2393fa278cd5fe106f34d22e7085

This country's stuffed.
Had it.
Cactus

A bit like entertainers flown in to a war zone. All pretty and sexy. The boys go wild. She titillates, she gets to go home...the boys get their heads blown off.

Nothing changes AC.

It’s what’s important in some remote part of life that comes to haunt us.

All too complicated!

Dan

Funny story coming out of the South African riots which pretty much summarises the intellect of the rioters and their supporters....

A shopping centre in SA was looted as is their wont. Usual stuff liberated/stolen/appropriated (choose your euphemism) Only one shop avoided the carnage - the book store. I suspect many won't understand the irony there.

As this discussion is more about BLM than South Africa, it should be noted that BLM has absolutely nothing to do with the lives of anyone, black or white.

BLM, starting with America. wants to destroy all the systems of the West. They say this. Their leader has said, "We are trained Marxists". They don't try to hide it: it's just that the MSM does not ask them about it. Do some proper reading, folks.

"Greece was a formidable slave owning nation."

Yeah unlike every other nation on earth at the time. </sarc>

The BLM "leader has said, "We are trained Marxists". "

Is that the same leader who now owns 4 multi-million $ properties and has a 7 figure bank account? A dedicated Marxist...</sarc>. Look up the meaning of the word 'grifter'.

Here's a link that gives us food for thought and shows
how little we actually know or understand:

http://www.theconversation.com/the-backlash-against-black-lives-matter-is-just-more-evidence-of-injustice-85587

How on earth can any of us really comprehend what black people
have lived through and the problems they've had to face in
their lives when we have never been discriminated against
because of our colour?

Dear mhaze,

You write: ”A shopping centre in SA was looted as is their wont. Usual stuff liberated/stolen/appropriated (choose your euphemism) Only one shop avoided the carnage - the book store. I suspect many won't understand the irony there.”

It would take someone like you to use an obvious example of wealth disparity and think it was some sort of “irony” worthy of everyone's amusement.

“Numeracy also continues to be a huge problem. A 2015 study conducted by Trends in International Mathematics and Science (TIMMS) showed that 65% of grade 5 pupils in the country could not add and subtract whole numbers.

“KwaZulu-Natal has been the hardest hit, according to Metcalfe. In that province only 45.4% of pupils have their own reading textbooks and 50.1% have their own maths textbooks. Similarly, in the Eastern Cape, only 56.2% of pupils have their own reading textbooks and 57.2% have their own maths textbooks. Limpopo is marginally better; 58.9% of pupils have their own reading textbooks while 62.4% have their own maths textbooks.”
http://www.news.uct.ac.za/article/-2019-01-11-solving-sas-literacy-crisis

I don't think I have every used the term white male privilege before but if there was ever a time it would be justified it is now.

As to slaves a hundred years before Plato was even born the Persian ruler Cirus the Great was freeing slaves including the Jews in Babylon.

“In 539 B.C., the armies of Cyrus the Great, the first king of ancient Persia, conquered the city of Babylon. But it was his next actions that marked a major advance for Man. He freed the slaves, declared that all people had the right to choose their own religion, and established racial equality. These and other decrees were recorded on a baked-clay cylinder in the Akkadian language with cuneiform script.

Known today as the Cyrus Cylinder, this ancient record has now been recognized as the world’s first charter of human rights. It is translated into all six official languages of the United Nations and its provisions parallel the first four Articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.”

"Numeracy also continues to be a huge problem"

Are you talking about the South African blacks or yourself?

"As to slaves a hundred years before Plato was even born the Persian ruler Cirus the Great was freeing slaves including the Jews in Babylon."

Are you saying there were no slaves in the Achaemenid Empire? Be careful before you answer.

The records of Nehemiah, Ezra and Esther in the Scriptures record the return of the Jewish slaves taken by Babylon then overthrown by Persia.

Hower with South Africa you must know that Western values were treasted with suspicion by those leaders of tribal law. It is unfortunate that only those that accepted Christianity moved out of from under tribal law. Secular companies exploited their resources for profit, and their valuies become product, not character. Now with the rise of Islam, education of girls and acts of violence is rising right across Africa

So we manage to go from this:

“KwaZulu-Natal has been the hardest hit, according to Metcalfe. In that province only 45.4% of pupils have their own reading textbooks and 50.1% have their own maths textbooks.”

And this:

“Most of the rioting and looting has been concentrated in Mr. Zuma’s home province of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng”

To now having Josephus claiming it is all down to a lack of Christianity.

How patently idiotic.

Poverty and incitement by supporters of a corrupt leader, mmm, where have we seen that before?

And he should reflect on the fact that Rwanda was the second most Christianised country in Africa before the horror befell it.

SR, Christianity does not teach hate. This is a Tribal conflict.

Quote,"The correct term should be “Genocide against Tutsi”. There was no German Genocide. It is the genocide against Jews.

Like any genocide, the reason was nothing other extreme hate towards a group of people. In this case, the Tutsis. The perpetrators make up their own “ reasons to kill”, but really, there should be no reason to harm others. To the point where a government decides to exterminate their people. regardless of age, gender, or religion.

In Rwanda, 1994, the Hutu extremists supported by their government wanted to eliminate the Tutsis. Nobody was left behind; babies, male or female, religious or not.

The extremists published their hateful ideas in newspapers. To access more people, they created their own radio FM transmissions to spread hate hate speeches. In the wake of genocide, they published the Hutu ten commandments. This is another version of the Nuremberg papers in the Holocaust.

The Hutu Ten Commandments

Quote cont:
Hutu Ten Commandments - Wikipedia

The first four “ commandments” were related to social and economic relations between the Tutsis and Hutus.

1. Every Hutu should know that a Tutsi woman, whoever she is, works for the interest of her Tutsi ethnic group. As a result, we shall consider a traitor any Hutu who

marries a Tutsi woman
befriends a Tutsi woman
employs a Tutsi woman as a secretary or a concubine.
2. Every Hutu should know that our Hutu daughters are more suitable and conscientious in their role as woman, wife and mother of the family. Are they not beautiful, good secretaries and more honest?
3. Hutu women, be vigilant and try to bring your husbands, brothers and sons back to reason.
4. Every Hutu should know that every Tutsi is dishonest in business. His only aim is the supremacy of his ethnic group. As a result, any Hutu who does the following is a traitor:

makes a partnership with Tutsi in business
invests his money or the government's money in a Tutsi enterprise
lends or borrows money from a Tutsi
gives favors to Tutsi in business (obtaining import licenses, bank loans, construction sites, public markets, etc.).
The next five were related to favoritism, nepotism in education, military, and calling for solidarity against the Tutsis.

5. All strategic positions, political, administrative, economic, military and security should be entrusted only to Hutu.
6. The education sector (school pupils, students, teachers) must be majority Hutu.
7. The Rwandan Armed Forces should be exclusively Hutu. The experience of the October 1990 war has taught us a lesson. No member of the military shall marry a Tutsi.
8. The Hutu should stop having mercy on the Tutsi.
9. The Hutu, wherever they are, must have unity and solidarity and be concerned with the fate of their Hutu brothers.

cont:
The Hutu inside and outside Rwanda must constantly look for friends and allies for the Hutu cause, starting with their Hutu brothers.
They must constantly counteract Tutsi propaganda.
The Hutu must be firm and vigilant against their common Tutsi enemy.
The last one was calling for all the Hutus to spread the ideologies to the masses.
10. The Social Revolution of 1959, the Referendum of 1961, and the Hutu Ideology, must be taught to every Hutu at every level. Every Hutu must spread this ideology widely. Any Hutu who persecutes his brother Hutu for having read, spread, and taught this ideology is a traitor.

Actually, in the great scheme of things black lives do not matter anymore than the lives of any other colour.
Human lives only really matter to relatives and friends.

If lives mattered to Governments we wouldn’t have so many unsafely marked blind curves on our highways, and that’s just a simple and easily rectified example.

Proud Boy Jose'

One of those peace loving far right ratbags you support, the people who stormed the Capitol Building January 6th which resulted in five deaths has gone to jail. Paul Hodgkins 38 of Tampa Florida was sentenced to eight months imprisonment for his part in the riots. All these violent extremist claim to be God fearing Christians, just like you.

Paul, Paul Hodgkins 38 of Tampa Florida is a crane operator carrying a flag inside a Capital building who pleaded guilty of obstructing official proceedings. WOW! Paul where is the evidence he was involved in the murder of five Police as you claim. Beside I do not support violent protests, nor violence against police.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/01/george-floyd-protests-trump-black-lives-matter-minneapolis-usa/
five police officers shot at riots
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/juliorosas/2020/11/30/police-chief-association-releases-jawdropping-numbers-of-injured-officers-during-n2580844

Who cried defund the Police?, Kill the Pigs! and who paid the bail money of those arrested for burning and looting - yes Kamala Harris. Your love child!

We all know that Paul has a rather fraught relationship to the facts and that he's wont to fall for any piece of rubbish so long as it fits his prejudices.

So he writes, rather deceptively, "the Capitol Building January 6th which resulted in five deaths". While five people did die that day, only one died as a result of violence. That person was a female Trump supporter, shot for no apparent reason by a police officer as yet unidentified although known to the authorities. Four others died of natural causes, not violence.

Hodgkins didn't partake in any violence. He strolled into the already open building, took a few selfies and walked out again. He wasn't involved in any violence which the judge specifically mentioned. He is jailed for being a Trump support in a country that used to be a democracy.

But as I say, facts don't matter to Paul. So we'll probably see him spouting this a-factual rubbish in the future.

Paul will add it to his standby collection.

Dear Josephus,

You wrote:

"Christianity does not teach hate."

Well it seemed a whole bunch of them did just that.

"The Catholic church in Rwanda apologised on Sunday for the church’s role in the 1994 genocide, saying it regretted the actions of those who participated in the massacres.

“We apologize for all the wrongs the church committed. We apologize on behalf of all Christians for all forms of wrongs we committed. We regret that church members violated [their] oath of allegiance to God’s commandments,” said the statement by the Conference of Catholic Bishops, which was read out in parishes across the country.

The statement acknowledged that church members planned, aided and carried out the genocide, in which more than 800,000 ethnic Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed by Hutu extremists."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/rwanda-genocide-catholic-church-sorry-for-role-of-priests-and-nuns-in-killings

None the less Steele, Christianity does not teach hate, no matter what some of them did.

Dear Is Mise,

Of course it teaches hate, particularly toward the Jewish people which culminated in the Holocaust.

“You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell?”

“You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

“For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you suffered the same things from your own compatriots as they did from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out; they displease God and oppose everyone by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. Thus they have constantly been filling up the measure of their sins; but God's wrath has overtaken them at last.”

One of the fathers of the Christian Church was Martin Luther who was quite specific.

Section XI of the treatise advises Protestants to carry out seven remedial actions, namely:
1. to burn down Jewish synagogues and schools and warn people against them
2. to refuse to let Jews own houses among Christians
3. to take away Jewish religious writings
4. to forbid rabbis from preaching
5. to offer no protection to Jews on highways
6. for usury to be prohibited and for all Jews' silver and gold to be removed, put aside for safekeeping, and given back to Jews who truly convert
7. to give young, strong Jews flail, axe, spade, and spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow
Wikipedia.

Far more extreme than the Hutu 'commandments' posted by Josephus earlier.

Prod Boy Jose'

Its one in all in, Hodgkins like Trump himself should have been charged with murder. If you participate in a riot, then the consequences of that riot should befall all who are guilty of participation. Don't come the weasel words now Jose', you supported insurrection at the time, just as your man Trump did.

Mhaze, you're in the same boat as Proud Boy Jose' when it comes to supporting Trump violence, keep paddling!

Issy, what can I say to one who supports Shooter and Hooter policy of arming five year olds at kindy! Your history of supporting violent gun use is well known!

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

It seems to me there's nothing fundamentally wrong with Muslims, Jewry, Catholics, Protestants or any other of the myriad of the worlds religions. The problem lies quite specifically on the human beings who belong to, and practice, any of those religions together with the interpretation any of them subscribe to when they practise and pursue that religions tenents.

In my humble opinion, ALL religions are iniquitous and corrupt and should be discarded to benefit all humanity. For those who believe in a supreme being, well, let them in the privacy of their own home dwell upon and pray to that being without involving others.

All I can say Paul, is please give a reference to back up that bit of slander.

Hi Issy,
How are you on this cold and frosty morning?

Your support for the violent destruction of life by the use of firearms is well documented on the Forum. Have you ever extinguished life by the use of a firearm? If the answer is yes then my assertion is correct. I posted to you an interview by the 'Guardian Australia' with the grand poobah of the NSW Shooters and Hooters Bob Ballsup where he stated the abolition of all gun laws was favoured by the party. You have said you were a founding member of that radical far right party, so it reasonable that gun toting five years olds is a possibility under such a regime. No slander, I hope I have been of assistance.

There was Proud Boy Jose' and others on the forum all gung-ho for Trump last year. When things went pear shaped January 6th 2021 in Washington when fellow supporters went on a riotous rampage, like Trump, the Forum supporters now want to distance themselves from that behaviour. Like Trump, you can't have it both ways.

Dear o sung wu,

To a large extent I agree with you.

However to be specific about this in my opinion it seems religious fundamentalism of any kind is the real fly in the ointment.

Toxic fundamentalist versions exist for most religions but it is really only when they hold sway within a state that things go particularly awry.

While certainly not a 'believer' I enjoy the bible immensely and am quite content drawing from it in more contemplative moments. Its role in providing literacy to millions across the span of its existence should be not underestimated.

To some extent I think we are getting the balance right in this country. Those who would do wrong things under the banner of their faith are getting called out rather than their crimes being swept under the carpet. The mass graves of Canadian indigenous children recently in the news speaks to horrors that went unchallenged.

Hopefully the standing of religious leaders in this country has been adjusted appropriately.

My one cautionary note is that a third of our school kids are now being taught in religious schools. I don't think that was ever envisaged 50 years ago. We are going to have to be careful that the indoctrination that they inevitably exposed to doesn't impact our unity as Australians.

Paul wrote:Mhaze, you're in the same boat as Proud Boy Jose' when it comes to supporting Trump violence, keep paddling!

I think that's Paul's quirky way of saying that where he lives the facts are irrelevant and he doesn't want to acknowledge that the facts don't support his fantasies.

Hi guys.

The ongoing and ever more varied comments and different point of views asserted under my article: Barty's Embrace:

https://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=21520

currently with a whopping 99 contibutions is highly relevant to your discussion, so please feel free to join in.

I was particularly moved last night watching the Matildas making their debut at the Tokyo Olympics against the Kiwis.

The whole team unfurled a huge Aborigine flag and lined up behind it before the match started.

The Kiwi girls joined in, in solidarity with Black Lives Matter, by doing the one knee on the ground protest salute while the photos were taken.

Also the English athletes did the kneeling in protest against the recent vilification of blacks following the English soccer loss to Italy in the European football final.

"The Kiwi girls joined in, in solidarity with Black Lives Matter, by doing the one knee on the ground protest salute while the photos were taken."

Oh....so when the went down on their knees it was in solidarity with people who have more melanin.

Wow...I took women on their knees to signify something completely different.

Dear mhaze,

Worried about you old cock. Reduced to a couple of sentences each post and dropping in sexist statements to get some attention.

That is bottom of the barrel ttbn territory.

Not sure you really want to go there.

Paul,

As usual you make assertions but never give a reference to back up your opinions.

Going back to the riots in the Zulu KZN South Africa.

The riots weren't triggered by a wealth disparity, rather the fact that the most corrupt South African leader ever who had looted every single state-owned organisation was jailed and happened to be Zulu. The rioters consisting largely of male youths and gangs targeted high-value shops ATMs and distribution centres in rich and poor areas stealing everything of value and wrecking everything else. The only shops surviving were owned by small businessmen were defended by the owners with firearms.

The result is that the women and children most needing support got little to nothing and with the shops and distribution centres smashed the townships are left with no food or prospects of any deliveries.

The hangover will leave the rich inconvenienced and the poor without food or jobs to pay for it.

SR wrote: "Reduced to a couple of sentences each post and dropping in sexist statements to get some attention."

Couple of sentences? Well it doesn't take to much to draw attention to your errors eg Holmes v Hopkins.

Sexist? The statement wasn't sexist. I'd have said the same had some sanctimonious virtue signaller pointed to men knelling.

Attention-seeking? Not seeking to get attention...just doing it for my own amusement, so to speak.

Now SR, don't worry about me...just concentrate on your maths lessons.

Kneeking in the current environment is bowing to Marxism and wealth distribution as preached by BLM. Atheletes representing a country paid for by the Country tax payers first need to show their loyalty to their supporters and funding. Otherwise Sport is merely political and must gain its funding from the politics it is representing; not from the Nations taxpayers. Of course the Chinese will display the flag of the politics it represents - Socialist - Marxism.

Josephus,
Well said ! Now, all we need is for the Lefties to grow some sense !

Dear mhaze,

That's the spirit mate. I don't want to lock horns with the downtrodden and mentally enfeebled and I was getting the sense you were on that spiral. I usually just ignore them.

Shadowminister,

You see here is the difference between you and I, I quoted educational statistics to show the gross disadvantage experienced in the province where the violence initiated and where the looting has been the worst. But you frump in with nothing but some baseless opinion “The riots weren't triggered by a wealth disparity”.

Yawn.

Dear Josephus,

You crap on with: “Kneeking(sic) in the current environment is bowing to Marxism and wealth distribution as preached by BLM.”

What a load of bollocks. You must be a multi millionaire in the very least because for someone to associate kneeling with bowing to Marxism and to show such concern over wealth distribution they must be filthy rich.

If you weren't I just can't understand how you have become such a shill for the filthy rich unless you were an utter dupe.

Actually my bet is on dupe.

Sad, very sad.

SR,

Each time you post a new piece of ideological drivel I marvel at your willful ignorance but this time you have taken fatuous idiocy to new levels. Just about every news agency reports that the riots were triggered by the jailing of Zuma.

There has been a black government for nearly 30 years in which those politically connected to the ANC have enriched themselves bankrupting every single state-owned business and stealing most of the aid money intended for the poor. When Covid hit, the govt borrowed $bns to support those that lost their jobs but after >95% of this aid disappeared not one person was punished.

27years after independence, the wealth disparity is even greater and is now between rich blacks and poor blacks. But since the oppressors are no longer white it is all OK.

Don't be silly mhaze, SR would never take math lessons.

Apart from giving him a severe headache, if he did have any math, he might actually understand just how ludicrous some of the stuff he's googled up really is.

Math is something to be avoided by all lefties, it ruins their ideology.

There is a video on U-Tube shewing how Shoprite employees saved the store during the looting; they poured cooking oil in front of the entrance then water on the oil, an effective but virtually invisible barrier and it worked.

is Mise,
yes, great action by the black shop employees to prevent their 'brothers' from looting !
Imagine the outpouring of claims of racism had the employees been white !

Don't think for a minute that criminals, regardless of their colour, are respecters of a victims skin colour.

Indy, we know from previous posts you look for every opportunity to denigrate people of colour. So be it, you will never change.

denigrate people of colour.
Paul1405,
Stop lying !
I denounce anyone who is lacking integrity. You're not black & I'm denouncing your menality & character ! So ?
isn't it a fact that your past posts did hint at nothing but denounce all that are white & find excuses for all who are of colour ?
You are a hypocrite of the purest kind because you're denouncing part of your own heritage and, again, stop lying !

Why is it never taken into consideration that people of the past were different to today. Some, such as the Inca, Maya, Egyptian, Chinese were ahead of the rest in their time. The Westerners who are made up of all races were at the top about 50 years ago. Now it's China's term again.
Black people have highly advanced individual however, as a group they appear to oppose each other. Whites, including Westerners have highly advanced individuals whose efforts go into solving the problems of the rest & by doing so become filthy rich.
Then there are the half-educated who think they have the answers but know in fact nothing & they're the instigators of social upheaval. They're also the majority & the cause of Democracy being unworkable.
As to the question do Black Lives matter, I can not state it any clearer that all decent lives matter ! I'd rather have one decent Black than a one of those tattood, drug ridden moron Whites. Those who object to decency & harmony mix among themselves in enclaves everywhere & use hindsight to accuse those who can see through them as being racist at every turn !