Twenty years on, what are we leaving behind in Afghanistan? A people not one iota better off. In fact, Afghanistan is worse off than the day Australia arrived. What were we doing there, what did we expect to achieve? Over 300,000 dead civilians, several million made homeless. Australians have been shown to be guilty of war crimes against the Afghan people, the latest the murder of 11 peasant farmers in a field. The war has cost Australia 42 dead, hundreds injured and millions of dollars.

Another case of Australia being dragged into a phony war by the Americans, did we learn nothing from Korea or Vietnam? The devil will lead you to hell! Like our overseer we should be prepared to make reparations for the wrongs we perpetrated against an innocent people.

Dear Paul,

In Australia, the price is still being paid for
an incomplete strategy with ongoing trauma and
lives being lost.

cont'd ...

Our poor veterans.

cont'd ...

And their families.

Ongoing trauma.

Well Paul04

AUS HELPING US UNDER ANZUS

The US began the War in Afghanistan in late 2001 as REVENGE FOR 9/11 against Islamist Terrorists (the "War on Terror") including the Taliban, for harboring Bin Laden and more broadly sheltering al Qaida in Afgh.

As always Australia, the loyal ally, followed the US (under the ANZUS "the US attacked, Twin Towers and Pentagon" trigger, would you believe?) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS#2001_invasion_of_Afghanistan

into Afgh - starting with the Australian SAS in late 2001.
______________________

ASIS

Also there's a WHAT IF? element. The Five Eyes, NATO and other Western armed forces and their intel agencies all came in.

eg. the Director General of ASIS, Nick Warner, said in a public speech in 2016:

"Starting with the Iraq war, support for the Australian Defence Force in military combat operations has become an important task for ASIS. We have a major commitment in Afghanistan, and this will remain as long as the ADF is deployed there."

Unfortunately Warner's 2016 speech has been deleted from http://www.asis.gov.au/About-Us/Media/Public-Statements/

However a record exists, for the curious, at restricted viewing paysite
http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2016/11/intelligence-process-speech-from-middle.html . Those interested could write to pete74730@hotmail.com

____________________

COUNTER-TERRORISM FLY PAPER EFFECT

The whole Western (including Aust) military/counter-terrorism effort in Afgh is to practice the FLY PAPER EFFECT:

ie. better to "kill or capture" Islamist terrorists in Afgh, rather than kill/arrest them in Western countries AFTER these terrorists have committed bombings, shortings, car-plows and stabbings in Western countries.

Put another way - better to keep such terrorists busy (and holed up) in Afgh rather than allowing these terrorists to attack the West.

Paul,

What we learned from Korea was that a small Asian nation, unlawfully invaded by the Greens’ Communist mates, could, given the chance, become an industrial success and take its place in the modern world.

Compare. South Korea with North Korea, what a vast difference..

Tell us all about North Korea’s exports of cars, industrial machinery, fridges, tv sets etc.

You're right Is Mise

What is Paul arguing regarding Australia's legal participation in the
UN sanctioned coalition to force back North Korean and then Chinese aggression against South Korea?

North Korea, after attempting to conquer South Korea, has in the last 30 years, developed long range missiles (with the range to hit Australia) and nuclear bombs.
__________________________

This has happened while North Korea allows its people to starve to death. I draw Paul's attention to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine

The 1994 to 1998 famine in North Korea stemmed from a variety of factors. Economic mismanagement [while NK was developing long rang missiles and nuclear weapons] and the loss of Soviet support caused food production and imports to decline rapidly. A series of floods and droughts exacerbated the crisis.

The North Korean government and its centrally planned system proved too inflexible to effectively curtail the disaster.

Out of a total population of approximately 22 million, somewhere between 240,000 and 3,500,000 North Koreans died from starvation or hunger-related illnesses, with the deaths peaking in 1997.
_____________________

Vietnam (a subset of the broader Second Indochina War) was different (a French induced US foreign policy disaster in which more than 3 million Indochinese died on all sides). Our part http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Australia_and_New_Zealand

Best not to conflate Australia's Just war in Korea with Australia's part in Vietnam.

What Paul would like to see is a united Korean people, happy and prosperous. Not a divided country where one half live under the jackboot of tyranny and the other half are the slaves of industrialised capital. A land where millions didn't die through war and poverty as the pawns in a perverted geopolitical game. Then again Paul is a very unreasonable person.

Hi Issy, welcome back, has the cold weather down south flushed you out of your bush encampment? "Greens’ Communist mates" Mr Kim is nether Green, he pours nuclear waste all over the little woodland creatures, or Communist cause he's not a very nice fella.

Hi Planty, just on Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, George W and Afghanistan. When 9/11 took place I was led to believe Bin and his bad guys were hiding out in Pakistan not Afghanistan with a whole lot of dosh they got from the Sardis. The Taliban, not good guys themselves, were at the time driving around America in a minivan as the guests of vice president Uncle Dick Cheney, with the view of doing some oil deals with the Yanks. The Yanks never took any action against the Pakies or the Sardis, why was that? George W said years ago "mission accomplished", why are we still there?

Dear Paul,

Have you been following the Ben Roberts-Smith case.
The Victoria Cross recipient who's been accused of
all sorts of atrocities in Afghanistan?

He's suing the media for defamation. Yet there are
his own soldiers testifying against him, including
his own ex-wife.

The Defence Department has a lot riding on this
case. It will be interesting to see how it all
plays out.

Hi Foxy,

Yes, I have taken an interest in the Ben Roberts-Smith case, and what I think it will expose is more of the unacceptable "culture" of Australians in Afghanistan. I can't help but think Afghans have been looked upon as lesser people by some, because of their situation, their culture and their way of life. Their lives are less valuable than the lives of those of use in the West.

Hi Paul,

It will be interesting to see how all this plays
out. One unfortunate thing would be if our veterans
and their families get tarred with the same brush.
But, this matter does need to be seen through to the
end. It does not bode well for Ben Roberts-Smith
if his own soldiers are willing to testify against
him, as is his ex-wife.

Twenty years on, what are we leaving behind in Afghanistan?

Opium, Oil, Rare Earth minerals.. etc.
A place to rob the former USSR from?
Who knows what else?

- I hope nobody actually believed it was about upholding the values of democracy -

(That's just a cover story, for the people at home)

Modern soldiers after Vietnam have been reduced to paid mercenaries.
You don't defend your country by always setting foot in foreign soils.

- That's called an invasion, in case anyone wasn't sure -