We've seen the most sustained waves of protests
over the years from kids striking for climate
change, to Justice for
Women, Black Deaths in Custody, to pro
Palestinian rallies recently. We've seen protests
all over the world from Hong Kong, to the UK, the
US, even Russia.

Do they accomplish something?

Do they work?

No...next question.

On second thoughts, it depends on the aims of the protest and protesters. If the aim is to disrupt the lives of people who disagree with them or to demonstrate the protesters' imagined virtue, then yes, they totally work.

Protests can demonstrate the importance of a
belief to society at large and let authorities
understand that their actions will be opposed
( stopping our involvement in the Vietnam
war, protecting the Franklin and the Daintree),
and so much more.

In general, protests turn on themselves so, pointless exercise & waste of resources !

Protests may not succeed in the short term but they
may have long term effects.

They work because they direct attention towards
an injustice and can change people's lives.
For example - protests helped to win the 8 hour
working day, secure women's right to vote, end
criminalisation of homosexuality.

Protests are important for those who are often
ignored by our formal political systems - whether
its Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people
pushing for self determination or school kids
whose future is at stake and yet who can't vote to
choose the representatives who will determine it.

Protests continue to play a key role in
highlighting the wrongs in society be it domestic
violence, worker's rights, and so much more. People
feel compelled to show up for good causes.
And of course protests achieve much more if they are
peaceful. Violent protests turn people against
causes.

Hi Foxy,

Absolutely, protests work but not all the time. The cause has to be a just one, and enough people have to be motivated to drive the protest foreword. The majority of protest are not the big news items of the day, but small local issues, covering everything from a bad planning decision to the destruction of a local native habitat.

The 'Usual Suspects' here have never been involved in protesting, so they would have no idea what success a protests can be. In my lifetime the big protest and most successful was the Vietnam War protests which began in the mid sixties, with a small band of very unpopular protesters acting in the face of strong community opposition and majority support for the war, particularly among Liberal voters. With years of condemnation, public opinion here and in America turned the tide and the murderous war was stopped. One satisfying and successful protest I took part in was the stopping of the closure of a local post office, sounds no big deal. Australia Post had made the decision to close the outlet. For most that was of no concern, but for a group of local pensioners and old folk, most likely Liberal voter, being in a strong liberal voting area, the PO meant a lot to them. When I turned up to the protest to lend support, I was confronted with placard waving old folks "Save Our Post Office", with local media coverage AP reversed its decision. If there had been no protest the branch would have closed, and most people would not have given it a second thought.

cont

cont

Many call us Greens a protest party, true we are that, but we are also a progressive party, many of the unpopular issues we support today, become the social norms of tomorrow. Take gay marriage, it first became an open "issue" in the 1970's. At that time it had virtually zero support among the straight community, you would be lucky if 5% would agree to it, by the time it was passed into law at least 65% of the community supported it. It took years of "protest", and protest includes the articulation of the issue in a reasonable manor for public opinion to be swayed into supporting an issue. There is a time for the megaphone, and there is a time for reasoned debate.

Hi Paul,

The Brookings Institution in the United States tells
us that protesting is as important as voting.
And we've seen that recently with the stir that the
"Black Lives Matter" movement which took place as
a result of police action against black Americans
and resulted in "defund the police" as a rallying cry
demanding systemic reform.

Those demands have generated substantive policy change.
Both Democrats and Republicans have offered federal
legislation on police reform and across the nation local
municipal leaders are cutting bloated police budgets
and insisting on better training for police officers.

I've taken part in quite a few rallies in Melbourne
regarding independence for Lithuania. They were all
small and peaceful rallies that did not cause much of
a stir. However I remember the excitement when we
saw the "chain" of Baltic people with linked hands
across their countries protesting the Soviet occupation
"Ruskie Go Home!" And as history has shown - look at what
they achieved.

Protests aren't working in Palestine, most likely because they don't want a solution & Peace !

There are circumstances in which protests work. The thing governments are usually most concerned about is winning elections, so protests are effective if they can convince the government that a backflip is in its political interest.

Most corporations like to avoid bad publicity, so protests can be effective in getting them to do what needs to be done to avoid, or at least minimise, bad publicity.

A third way protests can work is by raising public awareness of issues. especially ones that are underreported.

However the majority of protests don't work.

Individual,

There are currently so many pro Palestinian
protests around the world, including here in
Australia - even people carrying signs like:
"Jews For Palestine", and -
"You don't need to be Muslim to stand up for Gaza.
You just need to be human."

Hi Aidan,

There are numerous examples of protests that have
(and do) work. Protests that have affected
substantive policy changes.

Individual,

You said that "Protests aren't working in Palestine."

For your information:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/16/palestinian-protests-in-israel-showcase-unprecedented-inity

cont'd ...

Sorry for the typo. Here's the link again:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/16/palestinian-protests-in-israel-showcase-unprecedented-unity

There are currently so many pro Palestinian protests around the world, including here in
Australia,
Foxy,
I just saw a T-shirt with this printed on it.

"Support the country you live in or live in the country you support"

I'm unsure about your definition of protest success & I wonder how many dead constitutes success in your book.

Individual,

Your comments are as useful as a barbershop of
the steps of a guillotine.

I just saw a T-shirt with this printed on it.

"Support the country you live in or live in the country you support"

Where Indy? At the local Bovver Boys meeting you were attending.

I like that Foxy, barbershop - guillotine.

Anything that disturbs the status quo can be considered a protest. A letter to a newspaper, a gathering in the street, a meeting of the like minded, they are all examples of protest. Protests can be bloody and dangerous for those taking part, look at Myanmar, if it wasn't for popular protest in that country the world's attention would not be focused on the unjust situation there, and the military junta would be getting away with what they are doing without interference.

Conservative Politian's and their supporters don't like protest, they know protest can lead to questioning of the status quo and that can lead to change, something they oppose!

Thanks for this thread, it makes for a good discussion.

barber shop guillotine & Bovver Boys.
Foxy & Paul1405,
Going by the antics in Palestine over the past 1400 or so years I'd say the bovver boys & the guillotine have proven to be the lesser evil thus far.

A report in the New York Times shows support for Black Lives Matters fell dramatically AFTER the protests.

Of course it could be argued that they really weren't protests just rioting and/or organised looting.

Either way, support declined across all political groups following the protests/rioting/looting.

Do protests work? Well, again, it depends on the aims. If the aim is to get a new 65cm TV then they absolutely work.

"And as history has shown - look at what
they achieved."

Its probably best not to confuse correlation with causation. To suggest that protest calling for the dismantling of the Soviet empire were what caused said dismantling, is laughably beyond belief.

Because protests/protesters call for something to change doesn't mean they caused the change when it happens. Women got the vote in places where there were no protests. Indeed I'd argue that protests often delay change, especially when they become violent and seek to disparage or humiliate the other side. This causes a hardening of positions and opinions and makes change more difficult.There is little doubt the violent anti-war movements of the late 1960's delayed our withdrawal from that conflict due to the government not wanting to be seen to surrender to the baying mob.

We don't have to answer this for ourselves. There is good research:

Chenoweth, Erica, and Stephan, Maria J. (2013). Why civil resistance works: the strategic logic of nonviolent conflict. Columbia University Press.

Cheers -- Bo

Many people who hold a narcistic view of their self importance want to be recognized for social change in the annals of history merely for their view of self importance.

Western society as it currently exists has within it corrective powers against injustice - called "free speech". For instance the principle is: "All persons are equal", which means there should not be any form of injustice; however not all persons have equal ability, social roles, same culture, nor make equal contribution to a society; many of the present protests are trying to capture social inequality by protest, rather than viewing equality in diversity.

A protest in itself is very unlikely to have an
impact. It's got to be a long running campaign
that draws in all kinds of elements of society
in order to convince the government or
governments that they need to change.

However protests do work. Lets take a look at just
some that have:

Regarding police brutality and George Floyd (Black
Lives Matter Movement).

France has banned its police from using the chokehold
and Minneapolis has voted to dismantle and rebuild
its police force.

Sydney's first Mardi Gras in 1978 was disastrous with
disapproving police who violently suppressed
demonstrators and made 52 arrests. Today the Gay and
Lesbian Mardi Gras draws tens of thousands of people
to Sydney's Oxford Street in an annual celebration
of LGBTIQ communities.

Foxy,
African Americans are waking up to Black Lives Matter, as it is causing division and promoting racism, rather than deal with issues of social disadvantage. The outcry of Protesters was "defund the Police", not stop the choke hold when arresting uncooperating criminals. The result is thousands of law enforcers have resigned because of hostility toward them and crime has increased in areas where Police are wary to go. You call the BLM protests successful.

http://scholarworks.waldenu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7527&context=dissertations

Communist China has been funding BLM in America in an endeavor to create discord in American society. So far they have been successful in achieving their goal but because Covid also came out of China it has caused conflict with Chinese citizens in America a misinformed protest.

Dear Josephus,

As I said earlier in this discussion - the
Brookings Institution in the US tells us that protesting
is as important as voting. Police actions against black
Americans resulted in "defund the police" as a rallying
cry demanding systemic reform.

And, these demands have generated substantive policy
changes. Both Democrats and Republicans have offered
federal legislation on police reform and across the
nation local municipal leaders are cutting bloated
police budgets.

And much much more. Including Minneapolis reforming
its police force.

HI FOXY,

Four names from history; Emmeline Pankhurst, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Nelson Mandela, and people say protests don't work. Those that oppose change will ridicule protest, not because they believe it to be a waste of time, but because they fear the change that protest can bring.

Dear Paul,

As we know - not all protests work immediately.
Nor do all protests work - especially if they
are violent or if they are only a "one of"
event. For change to happen - keeping
at it is required, and not giving up.

We've had so many that have succeeded in this country

One historical event
that comes to mind is the Wave Hill Walk Off in 1966
when 200 Gurindji stockmen and their families made
national headlines walking off the Wave Hill station in
the Northern Territory demanding better conditions.

It took almost a decade for them to achieve anything but
in 1976 then PM Gough Whitlam gave them 3000 sq k's of
land.

I've found a couple of links that may be of
interest:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/2020-not-1968
To understand today's protests you must look further back.

http://www.bbc.com.uk/teach/the-people-are-revolting-the-history-of-protest/zdpdgwx

http://www.history.com/tag/protests

Sorry for the typo. Here's the second link again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/teach/the-people-are-revolting-the-history-of-protest/zdpdgwx

Yes it is, if it was ineffective, they wouldn't do it.

Protests have changed the world.
They are as powerful a weapon of change
as they have ever been.

Protests have changed the world.
Foxy,
Many protests have resulted in reducing the numbers of sane people !

"There may be times when we are powerless
to prevent injustice
but there must never be a time
when we fail to protest."

(Elie Wiesel).

cont'd ...

"All that is required for evil
to triumph
is for good men
to do nothing."

(Edmund Burke).

Good men are doing nothing for fear of protests,
http://www.dailywire.com/news/minneapolis-leaders-call-on-residents-to-stand-up-to-violent-criminals-amid-cop-shortage-skyrocketing-crime?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro&fbclid=IwAR3kVt34BtZUzLizLHG1hI0jYsrLa4sZZHwvGr35RYENELtzPXZoX7z0H-w

Violent crime has surged in the city following last year’s riots over the death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter activists’ calls for defunding law enforcement. Violent crime surged 21% in 2020, and 2021 is threatening to continue that trend as police grapple with a string of shootings, the most recent resulting in two dead and eight injured.

Minneapolis community leaders held a “take back the block” rally at Shiloh Temple in north Minneapolis last week to kick off a campaign of community pushback to violent crime. On Monday, volunteers took to the streets of Minneapolis in a display meant to signify that criminals do not run the city, according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. The program comes as the city struggles with a shortage of cops and makes requests to state and federal agencies for law enforcement assistance.

Proud Boy Jose'

On protest that didn't work, was the gun violent protest you supported at the Capitol Building in Washington 6th January. Like Trump you can't win them all!

Nothing to do with the topic. I just want OLO'ers to know that I'll be off the forum until I can participate again without the restricting delays in opening threads & incessant "Error" messages.
Cheers all !

Individual,

I'm sorry to hear that. However, I've been having
the same problem myself lately. It takes ages to
get into the forum. And I keep getting the message -
"server failure - reported to staff."
Anyway, I keep trying.

I watched the news this evening - and saw the protestors
in Melbourne who were anti the recent lockdown, wearing
masks, and anti vaccination. They were a rowdy mob.
Behaving like thugs, threatening police officers,
screaming and being abusive. Disgusting behaviour.

This is one protest that failed badly, The police gave
out fines, stayed calm, and made arrests. And rightly so!

People are entitled to protest - but they should not behave
like thugs - forcing their opinions onto others.
This was one protest that did not succeed - because of the
behaviour of the protestors.