I thought I'd do an ANZAC Day post. I know its been sent late, sorry Graham. I think it important we have at least one specifically ANZAC Day remembrance post to focus on and maybe comment on.

The following song, variously called "The Green Fields of France", "No Man's Land" and "Willie McBride" was written in 1976 by Scottish-born Australian folk singer-songwriter Eric Bogle. http://web.archive.org/web/19991012200828/http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/parton/2/noman.html

It is likely Eric was working as an accountant for the Australian Public Service, in Fyshwick, Canberra, when he took time off from his ledger to write this deeply moving song. Time well spent.

In the song a man (or woman) stands by the grave-side of 19 year old, Willie McBride, reflecting on Willie's death, in World War I.

Willie McBride could have come from anywhere, including Australia and New Zealand.

Willie could have fought as an ANZAC at Gallipoli in 1915, survived, only to be killed by a German bullet on the Western Front in 1916.

Here is "The Green Fields of France" sung by Ireland's Niall Hanna and Niamh Farrell: http://youtu.be/oL2U6QX49DQ .

Pete

Each ANZAC day I drag out my now battered copy of Robert Graves' "Goodbye to All That" and reread selected passages about his WW1 experiences in the French trenches.

It was a different time and different values. 20 year olds living in horrendous conditions yet still prepared to 'go over the top' for their mates and their country.

20 yr olds today need to be protected from Pepe Le Pew.

Hi mhaze

Some impressions:

1. Re: "20 yr olds today need to be protected from Pepe Le Pew." Thats a difficult one. The odd Colonel has said to me:

"What Australia needs is a good short war, like the Falklands, to toughen up the youth of today."

2. But which youth? The youth at Uni, often immature and sensitive?
The less military adept youth that, once conscripted, often failed the tests, or were obviously not soldier material, hence were told NOT to go to Vietnam?

Too young for Vietnam, I was exactly the immature, Uni student type during my time in the University Regiment Army Reserve days (1980-84) in which time I "rose" to full Private.

3. What of the many women reservists who could fire their M16s/AR15s better than most men and who were just busting to prove themselves in a war zone.

Some women excelled in their Iraq/Afghanistan warzones. Admin/support/comms/intelligence can be done by female soldiers without carrying the heavy loads on patrol (heavy (eg. 45kgs) load carrying meaning only men are usually suited to patrols).

4. Young male soldiers who have a tough home life till 15, join-up when they're 16-18, have often matured fast making the best soldiers.

5. Still the trend today is to leave highly skilled-vulnerable patrolling to Special Forces ie Commandos/SAS who have aleady been in the army for 6 years and first go to Afghanistan when they're 24 (not 19). They have lower total casualties as they're better-longer trianed and do repeat tours.

6. Sometines up to 9 Afgh "kill or capture" tours. Once back in the "real world of peaceful suburbia" too much time on high adrenalin and alienation from civilian life can lead to PTSD and suicide.

Whats better or worse for soldiers?

The Dawn Service in Melbourne will be held
tomorrow at the Shrine of Rememberance with only
1,400 people allowed to attend.

The RSL has asked for those staying at home to
light a candle and observe a minute's silence
for those unable to attend any of the services.
Which is what my husband and I will do to honour
the fallen and all those who served in Australia's
military.

" They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning.
We will remember them.

It is a good thing, and hopefully a sign of the times, that we have not had the usual Australia-hating Commos blathering about militarism, racism and white supremacy in the main forum during the week leading up to Anzac Day.

Hi Foxy, tt and mahaze

Its great you're commenting guys.

Eric Bogle is also famous for "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" but that was a little too soldiers only and Gallipoli specific for what wanted to say. What I wanted to say is that Anzac Day is about ALL wars Australians from all three services (airmen, sailors and soldiers) have fought in, died in, and come back alive.

But there are very apt lyrics from Bogle's "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" which are particularly relevant to Australians who didn't die in war, some carry tragic physical and mental scars (the latter often hidden, but comes back to bite). My own Dad, a regular army officer who fought in Vietnam, had PTSD to an extent. He couldn't watch "Platoon" about that war, without being deeply upset after watching it. He relied on me to calm him down - although I was a shiithouse soldier myself.

Here is "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" written and sung here by Eric Bogle http://youtu.be/WG48Ftsr3OI

The lines about returning Australian soldiers wounded, in so many ways are:

"Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head
And when I woke up in me hospital bed
And saw what it had done, well I wished I was dead
Never knew there was worse things than dyin'

For I'll go no more waltzing Matilda
All around the green bush far and free
To hump tent and pegs, a man needs both legs
No more waltzing Matilda for me"

MORE LYRICS BELOW

FROM ABOVE

"So they gathered the crippled, the wounded, the maimed
And they shipped us back home to Australia
The legless, the armless, the blind, the insane
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla

And as our ship pulled into Circular Quay
I looked at the place where me legs used to be
And thanked Christ there was nobody waiting for me
To grieve, to mourn, and to pity

But the band played Waltzing Matilda
As they carried us down the gangway
But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared
Then they turned all their faces away

And so now every April, I sit on me porch
And I watch the parades pass before me
And I see my old comrades, how proudly they march
Reviving old dreams of past glories

And the old men march slowly, old bones stiff and sore
They're tired old heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask, "what are they marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question

But the band plays Waltzing Matilda
And the old men still answer the call
But as year follows year, more old men disappear
Someday no one will march there at all"

Its words like these that make Eric Bogle a great song writer http://youtu.be/WG48Ftsr3OI

Pete

BTW.

I was not speaking out of turn, about Dad, with the RISK he would read it.

Because Dad passed away in 2018.

Here's Dad being interviewed on 22 April 2002 http://australiansatwarfilmarchive.unsw.edu.au/archive/667-henry-john-coates

Peter Coates
http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/

Every time I hear "The Last Post" being played
I get goosebumps. Here's a link that may be of
interest from the Australian War Memorial:

http://www.awm.gov.au/commemoration/customs-and-ceremony/last-post

Dear Pete,

Thank You for starting this discussion and for all the
links and poems. I'm sure your dad would be proud of
you.

Take care.

Hi Pete,

Here's two more links that are worth reading:

http://www.anzacday.org.au/not-a-hero

http://www.org.au/were-all-australians-now

Sorry for my mistake here it is again:

http://www.anzacday.org.au/were-all-australians-now

Thanks Foxy

The leadup to Anzac Day and the day itself are always an emotional time for me. 25 April is a big family day as well as being Anzac Day.

Dad's Father (then a Sargeant) served in Gallipoli (1915), as the X-ray machine operator in the small field hospital. He would X-ray Diggers' broken bones. He was shelled there by the Turks, wounded, and returned to Australia after the withdrawal from Gallipoli. In WWII he was an engineering officer (Major) involved in Enigma machines (as far as I can tell) and then in developing bridges that could handle tanks over European rivers after D-Day.

Mum's father had a reserved occupation, orthodontist, so didn't go to WWI or WWII but helped reconstruct the teeth of Digger's with teeth-jaw injuries. Here he is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Begg In the 1970s he was part-time support for the US military/intelligence effort by being the fly in/fly out orthodontist for CIA officers and their families at Pine Gap.

Dad's 45 years in the Army including Vietnam is in the interview
http://australiansatwarfilmarchive.unsw.edu.au/archive/667-henry-john-coates which is actually 90 minutes long in 2 segments (interrupted after 45 minutes by a test pattern interval). Following the Coates/Begg tradition Dad liaised closely with US intelligence when he and Mum were in Washington DC in the early 1980s. Mum was actually cleared to Top Secret by the CIA (few people can say that about their Mums :)

I'm constrined by secrecy agreements on detailing my formal career very tied in with the Australian military. Many years after that career ended, and in the relatively new world of Blogging I was in contact with US intelligence and civilian security. I passed nothing to them. The Commonwealth (lets call these men and women "Canberra Security") monitored all this very closely, then as now (and as I type this comment).

I'm on better terms now with Canberra Security than I once was.
______________

So all this is to say that my family have been in, and close to, the military since Anzac-1915, making 25 April a big family day as well as Anzac Day.

Pete

Dear Pete,

Thank You for sharing your story. ANZAC day would
be a very emotional time for you.

It's also an emotional time for us. It brings back
memories as well. My family suffered greatly during
WWII from the Soviet Regime. I also have relatives who
served in Vietnam. Not all of them came back as normal
human beings.

This is a time to say a few prayers and honour them
all.

Take care.

cont'd ...

The following link is about our dear personal friend -
Michael James O'Connor. He died in 2017. He was our
next door neighbour for many years. His children
babysat ours. And his wife Colleen was a close friend.

http://www.ada.asn.au/commentary/formal-comment/2016/vale-michael-james-oconnor,-am,-1939-2017.html

sorry for the typo. Here's the link again:

http://www.ada.asn.au/commentary/formal-comment/2016/vale-michael-james-oconnor,-am,-1938-2017.html

Hi Foxy

Re: "My family suffered greatly during WWII from the Soviet Regime".

Were your ancestors in old Russia, Ukraine, Poland or the smaller Baltic states?
____________

re: "I also have relatives who served in Vietnam. Not all of them came back as normal human beings."

In comparison it was fortunate, in a way, that Dad trained with/led the same armoured unit in Holsworthy NSW , then served in Vietnam with them, and returned to Holsworthy with them, remaining in the army years after. So he was never cut adrift, like too many National Servicemen (those conscripted) many of whom suffered and still suffer, alone from their Vietnam War mates.

The army in 1970-71 then was about 98% male, of which about 90% drank heavily. Don't know whether heavy drinking with mates was considered by doctors and chaplains then as a legitimate cure for, or postponement of PSTD. Though Dad wasn't Catholic he considered Catholic priests the best for pastoral care/morale in Vietnam.
_______________

Thanks for http://www.ada.asn.au/commentary/formal-comment/2016/vale-michael-james-oconnor,-am,-1938-2017.html about great contributor to Australia defence policy-issues Michael O'Connor, AM, 1938-2017. He had so many experiences and influenced so many.

Defence policy issues and research still remains a close knit field in Australia. T.B. Millar (mentioned in the tribute to Michael) was an inspirational Professor who taught me when I was doing my BA at ANU in 1982. Of others also mentioned - Dad was a colleague of Bob O’Neill and a general working for Kim Beazley when Kim was Defence Minister.
________________

The Navy Hymn for submariners, http://youtu.be/ZKMEl4HU0fA , covers Australians and more lately the Indonesians declared lost yesterday.

Regards

Pete

Hi Pete,

My ancestors are from Lithuania.

Grandmother was from
White Russia she married a Lithuanian ( in St. Petersburg),
they moved to Lithuania.
Grandfather served in the Tsar's army. A fascinating history.

Mum was born in Lithuania. My parents fled the country during
WWII and came to Australia in 1949 with the Baltic wave of displaced persons at the invitation of then PM Arthur Calwell to help with the Labour shortage in this country. They had to
sign 2 year contracts to work wherever they were needed.

Vietnam had a dreadful impact on some. One family member was
a doctor who to this day won't talk about his experiences.
Another was a medic who had a mate's head land in his lap.
He was never the same on his return home.

Michael O'Çonnor was a lovely man. He certainly did influence
many. He wrote quite a few books and spoke to many organisations
and advised many. He was a personal friend of our family and
we miss him very much.

Pete, Thank You for sharing your family's history with us
in this discussion. I wish you All The Best.

Take care.

Thanks Foxy

LITHUANIA

Yes I suspected your olds came from a country between the Russian and German empires. The citizens of the smaller Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia) had it tragically tough. Historically Sweden, Poland, German states and Russia took turns influencing/invading them. Then the Baltic States even more intensively changed hands in the 20th century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania#20th_and_21st_centuries

VIETNAM BALLS-UP

If only the US OSS (precursor to CIA) had CONTINUED TO SUPPORT the Vietnmese nationalists (including Ho Chi Minh) who had a good thing going fighting the Japanese in WWII.

Instead of backing a return to French Indo-China rule the US should have pressured the French colonialists in the late 1940s to decolonise from Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia rather than French + US making a hash of things.

But the French whispered that some of the Viet nationalists were communist and then the French-Vietnam War then American-Vietnam wars killed millions of Indo-Chinese (on all sides) and cost the US $Trillions (about 20 times more than Afghanistan).

And Australia was stuck in the middle and egging on the American with about 550 Aussies killed and many 1,000s physically/psychologically wounded and untold suicides (which may have exceeded the 550 battle deaths). What a mess. See right sidebar here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Australia_during_the_Vietnam_War

MY FAMILY HISTORY

Yes I like sharing what little family history that I can share. Believe you me most of the really jaw-dropping stuff is out of bounds (Secret and above). So I thank Canberra Security for their ongoing tolerance.

If I ever wrote a book it would be purely fictional, UK-US centric with the main character British and anti-Putin (even anti-Putin's buddy (Trump I think his name is).

With John le Carré having snuffed it last year there is intense competition amoung English speaking would be authors (mainly bad writers) to take his place.

Cheers

Pete
http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2021/04/anzac-day-2021-songs-photos-in.html

The other night I watched (again) the film All Quiet on the Western Front, which follows the experience of a group of very young German soldiers, school friends, in WW1. Most die in the trenches, others are wounded, one goes mad. It's a hard film to watch, but important, because it brings home the reality that the powerful leaders of all countries sacrifice their children in war. The normalising of this is indicated by the original German title,Im Westen Nichts Neues, meaning 'In the west, nothing new'. The film ends with the death of the young narrator by a sniper's bullet, as explosion and shots are heard. It wasn't all quiet, just that the death of young men was continuing: nothing new to see here.

I remember when I first heard about the WW1 Christmas Truce in December 1914, when unofficial ceasefires took place along the front line, and soldiers from both sides talked, sang carols and played football together. Why did they not stop fighting altogether? I wondered. They were ordered back to kill each other.

I watched the Oscars. There's so many films
that I would like to see from "Nomadland"
to "The Sound of Metal," to "Collette"
and "The Father" and the list goes on.
All appeared very moving and engrossing.
Worth a ticket to broaden one's perspective
on a variety of subjects.

cont'd ...

Union Station in Los Angeles where the Oscars
took place held this year certainly looked magnificent.
It's Art Deco style was impressive. They do things
with style over there.

Hi Cossomby

I haven't seen the German or English versions of "All Quiet on the Western Front" I will sometime.

But I think from 1914 through to the present day, WWI produced an inordinate amount of lasting and great:

- poems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_poet#World_War_I

- songs including:

"The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" http://youtu.be/WG48Ftsr3OI

and

"Green Fields of France" http://youtu.be/XDyip7SIJkQ

And to this day, movies, like:

Australia's "Gallipoli" http://youtu.be/UclsBepOfm4?t=1m30s

and

"Birdsong" an outstanding tragic 2 Part Series movie about a young British officer at Ypres (Western Front) before and during the war, a great romantic back story with a local French woman, as well. Here's Part 1 http://youtu.be/bCBpUlxHlno and Part 2 http://youtu.be/SGqyJJQutNc

I think WWI was such a literary trigger because it was the first multi-million casualty war, not merely waged during THE rather short European "campaign season" (mainly Summer) but almost 5 years, all year round, with men freezing in their trenches.

And WWI was meant to be "The Great War" and "War to end all wars"

but that was before a worse war WWII 21 years later, especially on the Eastern German-Russian Front and against Japan.
___________

Yeah, if only the Christmas Truce of World War I had been permanent http://youtu.be/-cSrqRdlFeo?t=5m33s

Pete

Hi Foxy

I watched "The Father" at the flicks last week.

Well acted, tight script, very confronting for those of us who've had a loved one go through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer%27s_disease

A parent getting lost in a small suburb he's lived in for 40 years - turning off the light to go to bed at 7pm. Time confusion of before and after as shown in the movie.

Here's the Trailer http://youtu.be/60wDuQMJl2Q

Pete

Thank you, Pete, for the link to the Christmas Truce film; I had not seen that.

You are right about the amount of poetry, song, films etc generated by WW1. I remember learning many songs and poems when I was at school just after WW2. And the kids' chant 'We won the war In nineteen forty-four'. I remember as a child thinking that it was really 1945, but five didn't rhyme with war!

I can still sing the Recessional right through. That was the origin of the phrase 'Lest We Forget'; actually it predates WW1, it was written by Rudyard Kipling in 1897.

The first war film I can remember seeing was The Dam Busters, 1955.

The war films that made an impact on me were:

1) Breaker Morant.
2) Gallipoli.
3) War Horse.
4) Lawrence of Arabia.
5) The Pianist.
6) Downfall.
7) Katyn (forest massacre).
8) Ashes in the Snow.
9) The Great Escape.

To name just a few.

Hi Pete,

I want to see the film - "The Father."
I also want to see "Supernova," a film
on the same subject.

My mother passed away a few years ago. She
had dementia and it was a difficult time.
Who knows what awaits any of us?

Hi Foxy

We have similar tastes, my favourates including: Gallipoli, War Horse, The Pianist, Downfall. Also Empire of the Sun,

In more detail, my favies:

"The Civil War" Ken Burns groundbreaking US TV series (especially war songs) http://youtu.be/1VK1KcZoDu0?t=7s

Das Boot (German submarines - movie and TV series),

The Deer Hunter (Best Vietnam War and peace movie. Trailer http://youtu.be/3Gqit3zVmyc?t=20s

"The Imitation Game" about Alan Turing (main naval code, Enigma genius)

Dr Zhivago (WWI Russo-German War and Russian Civil War) with Omar Sharif and the Goddess (even better than Duchess Kate :) Julie Christie http://youtu.be/phpRjeQdOFg?t-1m37s

Lawrence of Arabia (The Aqaba charge!) http://youtu.be/lChJz2DSpsE

The newish (2019) Australian movie "Danger Close: The Battle of Long Tan" starring "Ragnar Lodbrok" Australian actor Travis Fimmel http://youtu.be/_E0J11-rB7Q

Pete

Hi Pete,

Have you heard of the film "Mr Jones?"
It's about a Welsh journalist - Gareth Jones
who uncovers Stalin's Genocidal famine in
Soviet Ukraine.

I'm trying to trace it's release.

cont'd ...

Never mind. I've finally traced the film.

Apparently it was released sometime ago and is now
available on DVD at JB-Hi FI. It has only recently
come to my attention - so I'm going to go out and buy it.
It appears to be worthwhile watching.

Thanks Pete for your list of films.

There's some there that I'm going to trace
and haven't seen.

Hi Foxy

I'm glad to help.

Sorry to hear about your late mother's dementia.

Dad had serious dementia before he died of something else (7 heart attacks in 2 days). I found dementia was a Long Goodbye of behavioural change, mood swings, rapid memory loss, not fun.

Pete

Hi Pete,

Mum knew who I was during her dementia journey.
I visited her every single day. She was in an
excellent nursing home and I got to know all the
residents and staff through taking part in the
programs they offered. They all became family.
Mum used to look forward to the food I would bring
her just to provide variety in her diet. After a
while I had to bring enough for others to share
as they too looked forward to my visits.

I learned a lot from all these people. We danced, sang,
did art classes but above all - listened to music.
Music had a wonderful effect. The Melbourne Lithuanian
Choir visited often and sang songs in both Lithuanian
and English - the residents loved the National costumes
and the songs.

An excellent National Film and Sound Archive of Australia testament to the proud, bored (between terrified) Sunderland aircrews in WWII, forever over water in the Atlantic.

Then the pissed off, tropicly diseased RAAF men in the Pacific and PNG, in Catalina flying boats, Kittyhawks, obsolete Beauforts and better Beaufighters.

Everything but the overpraised "Spit" pilots of the Battle of Britain.

http://youtu.be/xSlHLFAQlGg