The Americans led us into wars, the Americans lead us out of wars. After 20 year of useless war in Afghanistan the Americans are getting out, and their obedient puppy Australia is following suit. What did 30,000 Aussies achieve? 41 dead Aussies, not many by our standards, many more left with scars both mental and physical, a few war criminals, so many dead Americans and others, who knows how many dead Afghans, millions maybe, they don't count in our estimations.

We need no more Koreas, Vietnams, Iraq's, Syria's or Afghanistan's Unfortunately we do need a defence force, not an aggressive military outfit at the ready to attack poor third world nations as we have now, and have done in the past. Australia should be a free non aligned nation with a voice for true peace in the world.

Australia should be a free non aligned nation with a voice for true peace in the world.
Paul1405,
People such as yourself would never agree to that !

Dear Paul1405,

If Australia wants peace it could ask itself how many of the wars that it has been in could have been avoided. Was the Boer War the fault of the Americans? The fact is that Australia has tied its destiny to other powers. It glorifies its actions in past wars in a way that sets the stage for emulating those acts in future wars. Anzac day could mention those in Australia like Backhouse who have warned against war. We could have a peace day which could examine our history and emphasize what Australia could do to prevent future wars. We could even mention on Anzac Day those have opposed the wars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Australian_pacifists names some of those who have opposed Australia's wars. It doesn't mention Backhouse. For starters Australia could be honest and not call its military forces defense forces. It has an army, navy and air force. Afghanistan and other places where Australia have fought were not defensive actions. It is easy to blame the Americans and English for leading Australia into war. The fact is that Australia has chosen to be led.

Regarding our involvement in wars?

We need to look at things in context.

The web tells us that -

"When Great Britain declared war on Germany in 1914
Australia found itself automatically at war too.
It is important to remember that Australian troops were
sent to be part of an imperial army."

"Most Australians believed that they were a part of
the British Empire and wanted to do all they could to
protect it. The 1st World War helped to foster a sense
of Australian nationalism."

"The Australian government committed troops to the
Vietnam War in 1965. This was driven by a fear of
communist expansion in Asia as well as the government's
desire to align itself with its ally - the United States."

"Australia first committed military personnel
in Afghanistan in October 2001 after the 11th September
attacks on the World Trade Center. PM John Howard invoked
Article VI of the ANZUS Treaty in support of Australia's
involvement. The only time the Treaty has been invoked."

"We went to Afghanistan to root out al Qaeda - to prevent
future terrorist attacks. Our objective was clear - the
cause was just - and our NATO allies and partners rallied
beside us."

" At all times, vigilance is the price of liberty.
We must remain vigilant because while it might be us today,
it will be some other group down the road 20 years from now.
The measure of our society over history is our fidelity to
our principles. We must remind our government and our
people to remain faithful to those principles or otherwise
our society, like so many in the past, will be swept on
the ash heap of history."

Foxy,

Please don't tell me you have been reduced to cut & paste analysis.

You are my kindred spirit so I expect to see more than that from you.

From the above it looks like you have been reduced to regurgitating extracts from the web to present as your own analysis.

That's alright for The Forum's usual suspects but not for you.

The Vietnam War was about containing Russian expansionism more than it was about a fear of communism. I think we are seeing this being played out again as we start to contain Chinese expansionism while accepting the presence of Chinese Communism within the global economy as long as China can be held at bay.

I have never been fully on board about the importance of ANZAC and Gallipoli in shaping Australian nationalism. I think the Pacific War was a more important aspect especially when the post-WW2 period was marked by a worldwide call for self-determination, the creation of nation-states as the universal political form, and the UN endeavour to mend a war-torn world through large-scale nation-building projects.

Mr O,

Talking about the subject of wars is very emotional
for me as so many of my family members paid such
a high price as I'm sure so did many other people.
I chose to cite from the web because they are
historical facts and as I suggested - things need to
be taken in their proper context.

In any case - I shall leave it there. I'm sorry that
I've somehow let you down.