Reported 18 March 2021 at http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-17/asio-director-intelligence-language-change-islamic-extremism/13256828 along the lines:

ASIO’s Director-General, Mike Burgess, says ASIO is dropping the 'Islamic' and 'right-wing' tags, and now referring to “religious” or “ideological' violence”. So ASIO will avoid referring to "Islamic extremism" and "right wing extremism".

Delivering his Annual Threat Assessment...Mike Burgess declared ASIO will follow its Five-Eyes intelligence partners in changing the language it uses towards violent extremist threats.

Instead ASIO will now use the umbrella terms of "religiously motivated violent extremism" and "ideologically motivated violent extremism" to describe those seeking to do harm. "We don't investigate people because of their religious views - it's violence that is relevant to our powers - but that's not always clear when we use the term 'Islamic extremism'," he said..."Our language needs to evolve to match the evolving threat environment."

He said describing "left" or "right" extremism was also no longer relevant or applicable in many circumstances. "We are seeing a growing number of individuals and groups that don't fit on the left-right spectrum at all," he said.

"Instead, they're motivated by a fear of societal collapse or a specific social or economic grievance or conspiracy. "For example, the violent misogynists who adhere to the involuntary celibate or 'incel' ideology fit into this category." Mr Burgess said ASIO's language needed to accommodate those groups that fall outside "traditional" categories.

Mr Burgess acknowledged that trust in democracy was falling worldwide and since speaking about the rising threat of far-right extremists last year http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-24/asio-director-general-mike-burgess-neo-nazi-threat-rising/11994178 ideological extremism investigations had grown from 30 to 40 per cent of the agency's counter-terrorism caseload.

"This reflects a growing international trend," he said. "People often think we're talking about skinheads with swastika tattoos and jackboots roaming the backstreets like extras from Romper Stomper, but it's no longer that obvious." He added "Today's ideological extremist is more likely to be motivated by a social or economic grievance than national socialism." Related to that ASIO says ideological extremists are, on average, men aged around 25.

See WHOLE ABC article's ORIGINAL WORDING at http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-17/asio-director-intelligence-language-change-islamic-extremism/13256828
__________________________________________________

Question: Is this change in wording fair and also appropriate?

Saw it all on SkyNews. A load of bollocks that won't make Australia any safer. Pure manipulation of language which, in turn, leads to manipulation of people, what they can think and what they can say. Heaven help Australia, with ASIO as waffle-makers, with Angus Campbell sitting in the front row sucking it all in.

I agree that not throwing all the eggs into one basket is a wise & responsible move !

Hi Pete,

The average age of the far right extremists on OLO is 85. ASIO can pick them up anytime they like, down at the 'Shady Pines' retirement home for real men. Don't forget the 'Shady Pines' motto; "No Chicks Allowed". The lads ask if ASIO is going to be calling, can they please make it before 11am, cause that's when nanny nap starts, and if possible not on a Tuesday morning, cause that's the morning for the weekly, and most exciting, Parcheesi game. On Wednesday afternoons the lads have their old time dance lessons, a bit difficult with the 'No Chicks Allowed' policy, but the lads pair up and things are not too bad. One lad said "I don't mind the dancing that much, as long as I'm not paired up with an ugly fella!"

Hi tt

What of some characters in our forum ticking many of the indicator-boxes ASIO may be worried about, ie: characters:

"ideologically motivated...extremism"

of "individuals...that don't fit on the left-right spectrum at all,"

who are "motivated by a fear of societal collapse or a specific social or economic grievance or conspiracy."

"For example,...misogynists"

who believe "democracy was [is] falling worldwide..."

who are "motivated by a social or economic grievance" [particularly white men who feel poor, wronged, of missed out on, and now live in mixed-race cities.]

Seems almost as if ASIO has the good sense to read online forums...
____________________

Hi Pauly4

1. And even 85 years olds, maybe from Final Countdown Rest Home, helpfully contacting [eg. Assuming an online identity "I'm Buck 32yo, from Idaho, USA, into guns, protecting our white society from those dark race Antifa hordes in the city. Please send money.]

2. You get old guys, maybe one Online in particular, with all the frequently repeated "answers" on "how Muslims are breeding fast and so threatening white society". [Incitement can be weaponised.]

"The average age of the far right extremists on OLO is 85."

That's awfully ageist of you Paul. You do realise that if you keep on accumulating '-ist' descriptors all you're oh-so-woke fellow-travellers are gunna kick you out of the aren't-we-wonderfully-inclusive club.

And you are gathering quite a few '-ists' aren't you? Communist, Stalinist, just recently a proven misogynist. Its not looking good Paul, nor is it a good look.

The average age of the far right extremists on OLO is 85.
Paul1405,
The mentality age of the average Leftie is 8.5 !

ALLEGED RELIGIOUSLY MOTIVATED EXTREMISTS ARRESTED, MELBOURNE, ON WEDNESDAY (17/3/2021)

Nine News, Thursday March 18, 2020 reports http://www.9news.com.au/national/three-men-arrested-in-melbourne-by-counter-terrorism-team/a8de7157-3137-4b65-af78-98d47b859e93 [I've redacted all names]

"A Melbourne teenager allegedly bought a knife minutes before he was arrested and charged with terror offences.

...was charged with a string of terror offences including being a member of ISIS after her was arrested by counter terror police yesterday. Investigators allege the 19-year-old and his brother ... started a fire in Humevale, but had plans for more violence.

The two fronted court today, where it was alleged...planned to commit an act of terrorism with a knife. The Epping teenager was arrested moments after allegedly purchasing the weapon yesterday, and is now facing life in prison.

Detectives allege...became radicalised by Islamic Extremists online and that he shared his ideologies with 20-year-old brother...

Lawyers for the brothers told the court they would be vulnerable in custody due to the nature of the charges. It was revealed neither had been in trouble with the law before, and they only came to the attention of counter terror officers as the motivation behind a grassfire and assault surfaced earlier this month.

A 16 year-old boy from Pascoe Vale was also arrested yesterday and released without charge.

Assistant Commissioner...yesterday confirmed the alleged offences were based on religious ideology. "It is Islamic - but let me make it clear, we target the crime - not the ideology," he said.

[Another] Assistant Commissioner said constantly being online contributed to the "phenomenon" [of young alleged offenders]."
_______________________

In a twist also on March 18, ABC issued a report in INDONESIAN at http://www.abc.net.au/indonesian/2021-03-18/australia-tidak-akan-lagi-menggunakan-istilah-terorisme-islam/13258654

Once translated back into English, included "Australia Will No Longer Use The Term Islamic Extremism"..."two men who were detained in Melbourne on Wednesday (17/3/2021) in a counter-terrorism operation will be brought to court today. [without naming the two men]

<Mr Burgess acknowledged that trust in democracy was falling worldwide and since speaking about the rising threat of far-right extremists last year >

Is the Threat of Far Right Extremism driven by the Threat of the Left/Socialists/Marxists/Islam? It it a reaction to these threats?

I think it is & my "Think" is just a valid as anyone else's "Think."

Hi Jayb

Well "trust in democracy was/is falling worldwide"

with a rise in "ideologically motivated violent extremism"

due to Trump's insistance, against fact, that HIS "election was stolen" and his mantra of "Fake News"

TYPICAL PROFILES OF SOME AT RISK OF BECOMING TERRORISTS

Some interesting comments, March 19, 2021, from this Aus website http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/asio-threat-assessment-provides-window-into-radicalisation/ . JUST SOME OF THE COMMENTS

"...Vic Police arrested two young men and a boy in Melbourne, and charged the two men with planning a terrorist act and one with being a member of Islamic State. The arrests demonstrate why ASIO has assessed the terrorist threat level in Australia at probable and reinforce public confidence that our intelligence and law enforcement agencies are well placed to disrupt potential plots.

During the COVID pandemic, people worldwide have spent more time at home, online and unhappy with their prospects of long-term economic and social prosperity. This puts those at risk of radicalisation at even greater risk. Extremist groups of all types are capitalising on the situation by increasing their online radicalisation efforts.

So, who are Australia’s budding terrorists, and how can this knowledge be used to prevent radicalisation and disrupt terror plots?

They’re overwhelmingly male, and their average age is 25, though there’s been a significant rise in the number of 15- and 16-year-old boys becoming radicalised. Often these men are socioeconomically disadvantaged and have a sense of alienation and isolation from their local community and of dislocation from the country’s and the world’s broader momentum. Those who are religiously motivated reside mostly in urban areas; those motivated by ideology come from both urban and rural areas.

...Undoubtedly, Covid-19 isolation and boredom have driven many to engage with others on these issues online who might have otherwise pursued non-violent ways to express their frustrations.

The logic behind ASIO’s assessment suggests that we should have seen an increase in the number of WOMEN radicalised in Australia, given that those hardest hit by Covid-19-related immediate and long-term job losses are women. Poverty and youth amplify the effects. ASIO’s latest assessment makes no mention of gender.

Given the Covid-19-instigated crisis in youth unemployment, which is likely to last a decade, the Commonwealth and state governments need to urgently increase welfare support and employment pathways for Australia’s youth.

God help us! Even our spies are becoming woke, & some clowns want to give the SAS a feather duster to do their work.

As for plantagenet wanting to give the would be terrorists more welfare, that would just give them more money to buy weapons or more explosives.

Oh Hassy

What with your flash boats

your self-advertised collection of hot cars (all for pulling birds!)

you should start that Bondi chapter of Silver Bodgie Liberation Army, today.

Come on, thats right, turn around, stop preening ya-self in the mirror!

[Audio visual bug in that light fitting on your left]

:)

"Is the Threat of Far Right Extremism driven by the Threat of the Left/Socialists/Marxists/Islam? Is it a reaction to these threats?"

Of course it is.
This whole thing is an sick experiment by design.
When you remove all the other arguments, that's really all that's left.

Hi Armchair

Would you settle for:

Some forms of ideologically motivated violent extremism are partly driven by:

- a feeling that white male society is threatened by the extreme left, non-whites, Islam and sometimes by women

as well as

- four years of Trump in legitimising his US white male base brandishing guns, mob action, ideologically motivated violent extremism.

"Would you settle for:

Some forms of ideologically motivated violent extremism are partly driven by:

- a feeling that white male society is threatened by the extreme left, non-whites, Islam and sometimes by women"

What examples of 'violent extremism' conducted by 'white male society' groups are you referring to exactly?
I think it would be more descriptive to replace 'white male society' with 'existing' or 'traditional' society.
- Or something to that kind of effect.

If whites start moving into a black country, there's going to be tensions just the same as when blacks start moving into a white country.
Whether the issue be race, colour, religion;
- Any change will be met with some challenges.

"- four years of Trump in legitimising his US white male base brandishing guns, mob action, ideologically motivated violent extremism."

Well, white people have rights too you know.
Seems to be some kind of twisted idea that the immigrants have rights but the citizens do not.
If you create these situations there are going to be tensions and pushback.

Gov. Greg Abbott discusses Texas border security efforts
http://youtu.be/jm4mZID4Bpg

Not sure about all these labels.
Extremists are extremists no matter which side
they sit on. It seems that Canberra is getting
rather obsessed with language lately.

plantagenet you obviously don't know much about the world. Young ladies today, & for quite a while, have known that blokes with flash, or historic cars have spent all their money on the cars, & don't have any to waste on broads. Young ladies go for blokes with money to waste on them, not cars.

Incidentally my favorite car is 41 years old in May. I built her as a retirement project from 2 wrecks, bought for $1200 the pair 39 years ago. She is beautiful, but not flash. My youngest car is 19 years old last month.

As for flash boats, my yacht did 2 trips to Dunkirk, so was far from a flash young thing when I bought her in 69. She was in fact a retired out of date, out of fashion racing yacht no one wanted. We suited each other so well we were together for 19 years.

There are not too many ladies who can handle crossing oceans, other than on a huge cruise ship, & yachtsmen don't waste money on trips on such juggernauts. I have done a lot of tourist sailing & launch trips, but I was always the skipper, not the tourist.

There may have been some chance of hanky panky there, if not for the fact that my lady was usually along as the hostess.

Hi AC

Re your question:

Q: "What examples of 'violent extremism' conducted by 'white male society' groups are you referring to exactly?"

A: The Trump incited Storming of the Capitol, 6 Jan, by a overwhelmingly white male crowd.

I'd say:

So much of Australian ideological extremism is led by concerns of a divergence from traditional white male dominated society towards increased racial mixing in cities and increasing calls by women to have more of that male power.

But the main forces in our traditional society is still very much white male dominated Police Force and Army.

Where in Australia is "black country". Granted some parts of Sydney and Melbourne are Middle Eastern (Muslim and Lebanese Christian) dominated.

Yes 4 years of Trump definitely increase white/traditional concern that non-whites were becoming gradually more powerful.

Yes I lived in Texas for 2 years and still have links there. There was/is a Hispanic influence. But the Texas Police and local Military Bases were still 95% white male.

Regards

Hi Foxy

The new language is in part recognition:

- that some Muslims are no longer 90% of the terrorist threat in Five Eyes (Aus, Can, US, UK, NZ) societies

AND

- that now about 35% of terrorism comes from extreme white and non-white (non-religious) groups or "lonewolves". All best described as "ideologically motivated violent extremism".

Racial tagging may have some (non-politically correct) validity YET extreme left/Anarchist violence (think Melbourne) and violent animal liberation (eg. in UK) is not racially aligned.

Hi again Hassy

Oh no some of my best ex-Waffen SS Kamaraden used to blow their money on ski resorts - this pulled beautific gals half their age. One gal was the spitting image of Andrea Corr - lead singing here http://youtu.be/SQxtl6ve3Dc .

If I can drive your cars you can seek absolution. Though they need to be auto tran as I forgot manual 30 years ago. A Ferrari or Porsche would do.

Your Dad in the evacuation of Dunkirk? Na I prefer power boats - no yacht ta. Used to know a guy who could sail NSW to NZ to Fiji solo and back.

Yeah. Gals best left at home.

Dear Pete,

Thanks for that. It's all a bit too complicated for me.
I don't like labels anyway - because people do change
their views. But perhaps I'm being simple-minded.

Hi Foxy

The sensitivity of security intelligence is its not only about law enforcement but high profile (public eye) Political matters come into it.

Hence official Termenology = Political Labels responding to changing terrorist demographics come into it.

I don't work for Government btw - just study this subject (eg. terrorism, gov responses, psychology, international scene and power relations) alot.

Regards

Strange thing with Percentages. Ay.

Let's say one group was at 90% & another Group was at 10%.

Then, The Other Group Membership goes up to 20%.That means the first group "percentage" has gone down by 10% over all. The Other Group has had a 10% increase in Membership. It doesn't mean the first Group has lost any Members.

In the Case of Left V Right, it's the Right that has had an increase in Members. It doesn't mean that the Right has had an increase in extremism in its ranks. Its just had an increase in numbers overall. Ay. Symantics?

Hi Pete,

Again - it's all about language isn't it
and what's acceptable politically.
Ah well.

Hi Jayb

You've got the wrong idea about percentages.

If you read the comments of head of ASIO, Mike Burgess, which were at the beginning of this thread:

at http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-17/asio-director-intelligence-language-change-islamic-extremism/13256828 states:

"Mr Burgess acknowledged that trust in democracy was falling worldwide and since speaking about the rising threat of far-right extremists last year, ideological extremism investigations had grown from 30 to 40 per cent of the agency's counter-terrorism caseload."

Caseload (probably including admin and collection costs and staff hours) is in proportion to percieved threat which is discussed with Dutton's Department of Home Affairs and other bodies.

Some how I already knew plantagenet, that you would need an automatic to be able to get around. Bet you couldn't handle my non power steering fleet either.

Guess all that goes with being a stink boat driver, rather than a yachtsman. I spent a bit of time with them, but only professionally. One carried 325 people out to experience the reef, but the best one had 6 of 4.5 inch guns. Much more fun. No ladies on it back in the days of a real navy.

Hi Foxy

Nah. Its neither "all about language" nor "what's acceptable politically"

Its all about people and mainly whether they're prone to violence or cause others to do violent acts.

Yet all government bodies are answerable to politicians and the public so language (explaining what they do and why) is important.

Language and perceived threat change over time. The kind of ideological extremism that's grown in the US over the last 4 years is Precisely Because Trump Made It "Semi-Respectable". US trends cause other 5 Eye countries to follow. Much down to Yanks contacting Aussies (for radicalisation) on quiet sites.
_______________________

Hi Hassy

So cutting! Auto anyday. Manual driveers in city traffic wallowing between gears, then stalling. No petrol efficiency dividend for manuals anymore.

"Power steering"? Why not.

I suppose you're one of those 1930s-40s MG drivers that don't even have fuel gauges - just glory in dipping your stick in the petrol tank every 50km?

No screw-boat is safe without 4.5inch gun - like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Vampire_(D11)

But ma great, great, grandad was on clippers on the Adelaide-Glasgow run in the 1850s see http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2019/01/what-my-great-great-granfather-had-to.html watching th vid in particular.

No ladies on clippers in those days except paying passengers.

That there have been more murders by left whinge terrorists than right-wing seems to elude most political commentary.

Hi Shadow

Yours is an interesting claim.

Proven wrong by the CONVICTED Terrorist Christchurch criminal: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53919624

Plant,

You have forgotten the likes of the red brigade and the countless communist terror groups in South America etc.

Hi Shadow

Probably best we stick to "ideologically motivated violent extremism" in Australia now.

Otherwise we could have endless chats about historical terrorism far from Australia like:

FOR EXAMPLE

A "Young Bosnia" terrorist nationalist assassination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand

for which I could draw a longbow by claiming it caused tens of millions of "terrorism related deaths"

ie. World War One http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I

The discussion here ignores one of the main principles of Islam.
A true moslem must accept the Koran as fixed and unchangeable.
It is blasphemous to suggest otherwise. A moslem cannot say that he
does not believe such a verse as this is compulsory to believe;

“They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you
would be equal; therefore do not take friends from among them, until
they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs,
seize them and kill them wherever you find them; do not take for
yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)

There are many verses such as this. Many are about Jews in particular.
It is verses such as this that makes a mockery of ASIO's decision
not to call it as it really is. It cannot be hived off as some
believe this but not that. It just does not work.

Hi Bazz

Our Government's "Australian National Security" list of 26 terrorist organisations

at http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/default.aspx

still includes:

- 24 "religiously motivated violent extremist" organisations, all of which are Islamist

AND

- 2 "ideologically motivated violent extremist" organisations, which are:

* Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) a Kurdish nationalist organisation,

and

* Sonnenkrieg Division
Will come into effect following the conclusion of the disallowance period"
______________________________________

Some OLO commenters may object to the addition of the last one.

"Australian National Security" describes it at http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/sonnenkrieg-division.aspx as:

"Sonnenkrieg Division

This Statement of Reasons is based on publicly available information about Sonnenkrieg Division. To the Australian Government’s knowledge, this information is accurate, reliable and has been corroborated by classified information.

Name of the organisation

Sonnenkrieg Division (SKD; ‘Sun War Division’)

Legislative basis for listing a terrorist organisation

Division 102 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 (the Criminal Code)provides that for an organisation to be listed as a terrorist organisation, the AFP Minister (Minister for Home Affairs) must be satisfied on reasonable grounds that the organisation:

* is directly or indirectly engaged in, preparing, planning, or assisting in or fostering the doing of a terrorist act;

* or advocates the doing of a terrorist act.

For the purposes of listing a terrorist organisation under the Criminal Code, the doing of a terrorist act includes the doing of a specific terrorist act, the doing of more than one terrorist act and the doing of a terrorist act, even if a terrorist act does not occur.

Background to this listing

SKD has not previously been listed as a terrorist organisation under the Criminal Code.

Details of the organisation

Organisational overview and objectives

SKD is a United Kingdom (UK)-based extreme right-wing organisation which adheres to a violent white-supremacist ideology inspired both by the historical National Socialist German Worker’s Party (Nazi Party) and by the Satanic ‘Order of Nine Angles’ movement. SKD seeks to encourage lone-actor terrorist attacks against its political, racial and ethnic enemies, in order to bring about an apocalyptic ‘race war’ and the creation of a global ‘white’ ethno-state."

MUCH MORE DESCRIPTION AT: http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/sonnenkrieg-division.aspx

Not me I would like all Right-Wing Extremist Groups listed, as I would Left-Wing Groups, such as Antifa. Any Extremist Religious Groups too, such as Brethren, Scientists etc.

MORE on SONNENKRIEG DIVISION (Terrorist Organisation) LISTING

SBS reports 22 March 2021 http://www.sbs.com.au/news/sonnenkrieg-division-australia-lists-right-wing-organisation-as-terrorist-group-for-the-first-time

[The federal government has listed Sonnenkrieg Division (aka SKD) as an extremist terrorist organisation under Australia's criminal code] “paving the way for investigations and possible jailings of members.”

Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton is listing the Sonnenkrieg Division ...under the criminal code, joining the likes of Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Mr Dutton said the listing reflected the government's commitment to stamping out violence and extremism of all kinds, regardless of ideology or motivation. "SKD adheres to an abhorrent, violent ideology that encourages lone-wolf terrorist actors who would seek to cause significant harm to our way of life and our country," Mr Dutton said on Monday [22 March 2021].

The listing enables all available terrorist offences and penalties to apply to the organisation, including up to 25 years in jail for some offences.

[Mr Dutton added] "Members of SKD have already been convicted of terrorist offences in the United Kingdom, including encouraging terrorism, preparing for a terrorist attack and possession and dissemination of terrorist material."

[SKD has also] been convicted for plotting to attack the British royal family, as well as disseminating terrorist material.

ASIO boss Mike Burgess said [ASIO] had proposed listing other groups but it was up to others to decide if the legal threshold was met. "Here it's a very high bar because there are very high penalties," he told a Senate estimates hearing in Canberra. "Of course we will pay attention to any groups here in Australia and we look at them but our principal focus is actually on individuals and the group itself about whether they promote acts of violence or terrorism."

[Mr Burgess] defended using the catch-all term ideological extremism to refer to terrorist organisations across the political spectrum during a speech last week. "Some commentators suggested I had banned words and that's simply not true," Mr Burgess said.

SEE WHOLE SBS ARTICLE, WITH ORIGINAL WORDING, HERE http://www.sbs.com.au/news/sonnenkrieg-division-australia-lists-right-wing-organisation-as-terrorist-group-for-the-first-time