Technocrats who pushed policies like masks, social distancing and lockdowns in the first place had no evidence that they would work. Now the data is coming in that they are largely worthless against stopping the China virus or any other virus and, in fact, might be increasing the spread.

Professor Steven Riley, professor of infectious disease dynamics at Imperial College London, makes the claim, stating that, despite the draconian lock down in the UK instituted on 4th. January, China virus cases actually increased between the 6th to the 15th January. If the lockdown was working, he said, there should have been a decline in that time. Current research "certainly doesn’t support the conclusion that lockdown is working.”

A peer reviewed study by Stanford University researchers has also found that mandatory lockdowns do not provide more benefits to stopping the spread of the virus than voluntary measures such as social distancing do. There has been no significant beneficial effect of draconian measures proved in any country.

Put in a lockdown, take it off, put it back on again - it's like a merry-go-round.

Academics from Duke, Harvard, and Johns Hopkins in the US have warned that there could be around a million excess deaths over the next two decades AS A RESULT OF LOCKDOWNS.

Ttbn,

Not sure what planet you're on - I didn't realise that emails could travel inter-planetarily - but perhaps you could compare, say, any state in Australia, with the US when it comes to the prevention of deaths from this virus: Australia has lock-downs, the US really doesn't.

Australia hasn't had a death from the virus for months, while the Yanks have had around 65,000 deaths in this month alone - and very likely, another 120,000 by the end of February, before the vaccination program starts to have any effect on death numbers.

I don't quite understand this weird, rat-bag, distortion of figures, and crack-pot conspiracy theories on the part of reactionaries since the election. Any old lie seems to do. Do you really think we're all mugs out here ? That we'll believe any crap you want to dish out in the hope that there is still someone, anyone, out there, who is dumb enough to believe you ?

Dumb enough, yes, I know at least one bloke: you might be right about that at least - what's the bet that someone comes up with a mention of Venezuela :(

Joe

So, what does work or is better than lock-downs ?

Joe, I think you are dismissing the fact that the "unintended deaths" are irrelevant to the virus and you are nullifying something rather serious.

What is an unintended death? Any that are caused by the lockdowns, restrictions and disruption. Don't even need to catch the Covid, all you need to be is a little unlucky. If you have been receiving cancer care during this time, then about 40% of us have NOT received appropriate care or management. Ask an oncologist if you are curious, they began speaking out early last year, and have continued to repeat these warnings, though they are mostly ignored.

Did you know that 80% of the allogeneic bone marrow transplant patients will require overseas donors? That's not to mention those poor souls who have had the entire diagnosis process delayed, robbing them of their window for treatment and/or hope. Bone marrow biopsy is elective surgery, unless extremely urgent, so it's not just the breast augmentation surgery that's not being done in a timely fashion.

That's just one small section of a speciality inside the enormous world of cancers. But multiply repeatedly and the big picture gets clearer, and rather frightening. Perhaps pray that you don't find a lump tomorrow, hand washing, masks and lockdowns aren't effective at killing any cancer that I am aware of, but I freely admit that my education is limited to the world of Haematology, and a small stream within that epic monster, so I could be wrong.

How about the 15% increase in alcohol consumption over lockdown? Not sure it's a harmless legal product, liver cancer is a leading cause of death here....

Foul-Mouth,

Why don't you explain to us how China has been so successful in suppressing the spread of the coronavirus?

They're only had a total of around 88,000 infections.

individual,

If you are asking me, I don't know. Vaccination, eventually, I suppose - maybe. But, in the meantime, doing the same thing when it doesn't work, but just ruins the economy and causes anger, depression and hopelessness, is not much use. Nor is ignoring the fact that this sort of thing has, historically, petered out in time, sometimes without vaccination and interference by politicians and 'experts' who don't know what they are doing. The 'experts' have staggered out of 2020 into 2021 still clueless. This virus has been a case of que sera, sera since it started, and it looks like staying that way in the immediate future. People my age are going to die soon, anyway, and the young, productive ones will continue to shrug the virus off and get on with their lives if they are allowed to by the 'experts'.

Dear Paradox78,

When will you lot ever learn, if you are going to attempt to ham something up you really need to get your facts straight.

You claim; “liver cancer is a leading cause of death here”.

Well no it isn't. Lung cancer has three times the toll. Next comes colorectal cancer, then pancreatic cancer, then breast cancer, then cancers of unknown primary site.

That isn't to say that increased alcohol consumption isn't a cause for concern but if we are judging things in this manner then it would need to be weighed up with the huge drop in flu deaths due to better hygiene practices.

The fact that we still have people in this country who claim lockdowns don't work despite the evidence outside their front doors show that TDS is still alive and well. Facts simply do not matter to some.

SR,

And the next panacea-for-all will be vaccines. Yes, eventually they will do a marvellous job, we all should get vaccinated. But how long do people think it may take to vaccinate everybody, while the virus still rages ? A million shots a day in the US means a couple of years. I'm sure that the Halfwit-Hero thought it would all be done in a few weeks - if it was necessary at all, of course. Since, as a Hero, he got over his in two days, it really was only for weak people.

And another problem: People who have been vaccinated may still be carrying the virus. 90 % of the population could be vaccinated AND still be carriers, mixing with the 10 % who aren't, or won't get, vaccinated.

So the infection rate - and ensuing death rate - won't come down substantially for many months yet, and will still be high in a year's time. Then it might plummet.

How to avoid catching the virus in the meantime if you haven't been vaccinated? Wear a mask and socially distance.

Of course, if people still believe the virus is a hoax, or they're banking on the mythical 'herd immunity', or they're more concerned with making money than their health (or anybody else's), then they should go for it - mix and cuddle as much as they like. That might help strengthen the gene pool :)

Joe

Opinion,

China might just be using the might of the State and lying as well.

Is Mise,

Doesn't matter because Foul-Mouth is going to tell how China managed to suppress it so easily compared to the experiences in the rest of the world.

"Lockdowns Do Not Work"

Of course they don't work. I've been saying that since last April. There's been plenty of literature on it.

Now we have WHO saying it.

Now we have peer-reviewed science saying (although those who preen themselves on 'following-the-science' will miraculously decide there there is some science you don't follow).

But why now? Why not back when it became obvious the lockdowns were a placebo?

Well, the virus and the lockdowns have done their job - get rid of the bad Orange Man. It was always about the left regaining power. If that meant destroying lives, destroying economies, well so be it.

But now that that's been done, suddenly we find out the lockdowns weren't needed after all.

Literally 1 hour after Xiden became the figurehead of the new government, WHO was advising that their approved testing method was showing too many false-positives. So of course that'll mean less cases and therefore less deaths attributed to the virus. Presto, less covid deaths. The CDC is also talking about changing their 'death-by-covid' rules with the result being fewer deaths attributed to the virus.

Now we have Xiden, or his speech-writers, who once said.."We're eigth months into this pandemic and Trump still doesn't have a plan to get this virus under control...I do" is now saying..." There's nothing we can do to change the trajectory of the pandemic in the next several months." The usual dolts were duped and they won't even realise it.

Now several of the Democrat states that had the strictest lockdowns before 20/1/21 are finding that's its OK to open up the economy. They can and did brazenly lie about all of this because they were talking to people who wanted to be lied to

Here in Queensland we should all be thankful to the Palaszczuk Labor government for their recent decisive action in implementing a short 3 day lockdown in Brisbane which avoided an outbreak of the more severe Pommy virus.

Mhaze, you were wrong from the start with your notions concerning the virus. Your claims that it wasn't serious, it will go away with herd immunity, it will be gone by Easter, Sweden is doing a fantastic job, etc, nonsense you quoted from the "medical" almanac of the Dangerous Doctor Donald, well, I see you're still at it.

How many more deaths are there now in comparison of three years ago ?

Paul1405,

mhaze, like Foul-Mouth and a lot of others, has been brainwashed by the Chinese into trying to direct responsibility for the pandemic away from China.

What they would like to see is not Lockdown but Un-Lockdown.

Some on OLO, do not require "locking down" they require "looking up"!

Indy, what is the point of your question. Like saying Australian road fatalities have declined from over 3,000 per year in the 1980's to about 1,200 now. Therefore an easing of road safety rules is justified. It has been because of Australia's tough and decisive action that the death toll from Covid-19 is relatively low here.

Paul,

"Here in Queensland we should all be thankful to the Palaszczuk Labor government for their recent decisive action in implementing a short 3 day lockdown in Brisbane which avoided an outbreak of the more severe Pommy virus."

Second that.

Paul said I said : " it will go away with herd immunity"

Well it will.

Paul said I said : "it will be gone by Easter"

Not true. As in an utter lie.

Paul said I said : "Sweden is doing a fantastic job"

Not true.As in an utter lie.

Paul said I said :" you quoted from the "medical" almanac of the Dangerous Doctor Donald"

Not true.As in an utter lie.

None of that is true. Paul responds to my data with lies.

Standard Paul there. He's the very caricature of a committed Stalinist - lies are fine if the end is virtuous.

"Well, the virus and the lockdowns have done their job - get rid of the bad Orange Man".

True. Trump would have romped back in had it not been for the use of the China virus - not forgetting the corruption of course. There is also evidence - in a scientific paper that was quickly removed for the public gaze - that virus made no difference to the average annual death rate in the US.

Biden's 100 days of mask wearing is going to be interesting, because masks don't work either.

individual,

More than 2.5 million Americans died in 2017 without the help of the China virus. Also, the reports of influenza have dropped right off. My take on that is that many of the China virus deaths could actually be 'flu deaths.

Lockdowns do work. That was proved first by New Zealand and then by Australia.

But they don't guarantee an instant drop in cases. The reason the Covid infection is so hard to fight is it takes a relatively long time for symptoms to occur. So an increase in cases detected between 2 and 11 days after the lockdown starts is hardly surprising, and tells us very little about the efficacy of the lockdown.

The worst case scenario is that it merely helps Britain flatten the curve. But more likely there will be a significant drop in the infection rate.

________________________________________________________________

individual,
>So, what does work or is better than lock-downs ?

Mass testing. Had the world given absolute priority to production of testing kits, Covid19 could've been eliminated in a few months.

In the UK, the emotive advertising of an 'even worse strain' of the virus that has arrived is being questioned by top scientists, who say it is too early to tell if there is a new strain or not. Even though the scaremongering media has punched out images of wild looking people, staring out from behind oxygen masks and miles of tubes to make the claim look more realistic.

There is supposed to be a 30% higher risk with this one - or is it 50% or 70%. There are so many different numbers being thrown around by 'experts'. Perhaps they are all just poor liars who don't get together enough to sync their lies. And, they are now doing their Scary Mary bit in advance, saying that vaccines might not be as effective on this 'new strain'; when it's too early to know if they are effective on the 'old strain'.

The 'new strain' has now reached Australia, according Scare News, in some tennis dogsbodies (not players) from overseas.

Victoria, mad lockdown regime, 820 deaths in pop. 6.3 million.

NSW, much more circumspect, 54 deaths in pop. 7.5 million.

Just a by-the-buy: 115 businesses went into receivership in one month, thanks to Victorian DD's 111 days of China virus lockdowns.

The latest indicator that lockdowns have been nothing more than an instrument of political control comes from America where, since the installation of Joe Biden as President, the Democrat city mayors have started saying that lockdowns are not necessary and should be removed for the sake of business and the economy! Amazing, coming from the biggest advocates of lockdowns when Donald Trump was President. And, as we are constantly told by our US obsessive, the China virus has not improved in that country.

Covid19 could've been eliminated in a few months.
Aidan,
Maybe but had people not done so much insane willy nilly travel it could possibly have been prevented in the first place.

Have we come up with a consensus on who is responsible for the origin and introduction of the Covid-19?

I reckon it is China.

I know there are a lot of people on The Forum especially the pro-China camp like Foul-Mouth who say it is Australia or the US or cherries from Argentina but I definitely reckon China.

I know most of you don't agree with me but just keep in mind that i am really really smart.

Indy, what is the point of your question.
Paul1405,
The point is that suddenly every cause of death is COVID-19 related. Just as it was thirty years ago with HIV. Suddenly no-one dies of any other illness anymore.
My question is, how many death are purely due to COVID-19 & how high is that number above all other standard causes from three years ago. 90 year olds dying of COVID-19 ? No, they're dying of old age ! The band wagon bureaudroids need to get their figures in order.
More people are cremated now than there were three years ago. Three years ago 90 year olds died of cancers & old age.
Of course catching COVID-19 knocks people around but so does the common Flu or cancer or neglect etc etc. COVID-19 has obviously a negative impact on the vulnerable but to say COVID-19 is the biggest killer I'm not so sure !
It's like when a person gets hit by a car it's a traffic death but according to the coroner the person drowned in their own blood.

individual,

You're one of those who do not think Covid-19 came from China.

So where do you think it came from?

Dear individual,

Strewth mate really??

You have been spoonfed this stuff so many times and yet you still come out with inane statements like:

“My question is, how many death are purely due to COVID-19 & how high is that number above all other standard causes from three years ago. 90 year olds dying of COVID-19 ? No, they're dying of old age ! The band wagon bureaudroids need to get their figures in order.”

Here are the latest figures out on England on all cause mortality rates. It even has a pretty graph for you to get your head around how savage the pandemic has been in that country: http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/954536/Weekly_report_mortality__W3.pdf

If you have even the slightest question after viewing it about the exceptional nature of COVID then put it to me and I will with my usual great forbearance attempt to assist.

SteelRedux,
That's an irrelevant answer !

SteeleRedux,
Your link refers to one of the most indisciplined Demographic on the planet. Don't use that Nation as a benchmark.

Dear individual,

No it most certainly is not. It was directly focused on either your ignorance of the facts or your attempts to cloud the issue.

Why on earth would you say that?

Dear mhaze,

Firstly good on you for scurrying out of your penance retreat to snip and snarl at the way things have turned out.

Oh and I did like this: “Well, the virus and the lockdowns have done their job - get rid of the bad Orange Man. It was always about the left regaining power.”

So the left were responsible for the virus and the fact that the lockdowns worked.

Lol.

You claim “Now we have peer-reviewed science saying”. Where? Come on mate, linking is easy, not as easy of course as some flippant assertion from a sook but not overly onerous. Catch up.

It seems despite the lockdowns Australia's unemployment rate is now below the US and during the worst of the pandemic theirs was twice that of Australia's.

Anyway we in Victoria are pretty stocked about 'Get on the Beers' nailing 12th spot on the Triple J top 100 countdown although some here think it should have been first.
http://youtu.be/7hOK5JF5XGA

Village Idiot,

You can assume and assert all you like, but anybody with any sense would wait for the most thorough investigation possible and take it from there, always assuming the possibility of cover-ups.

But racists and half-wits such as yourself won't wait for any of that unnecessary rubbish.

So you and Josephus think we should all roll over on our bellies and open our legs to your Chinese masters ? Give up now ?

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

It's you who wants people to believe that the coronavirus did not start in China, not me.

You pro-China types are all the same.

I just heard a rumor.

This new strain of Covid-19 takes 4 weeks to incubate not 2 weeks and is deadly to the kidneys.

So will people start isolating for longer and will the next lockdown be more prolonged?

Idiot,

Of course, but let's wait until there is some conclusive evidence.

Personally, I do think that it may very likely have started in central China, at the wet markets, in the exchange of wild-foods like bats and pangolins for money. Such 'exchanges' of viruses for money and goods for foraging people are common all round the world, and have been the source of many human viruses - HIV, Zika, malaria, swine flu, bird flu, etc.

Joe

loudmouth2,
It's irrelevant how or where it started. The real culprits are the distributors, the willy nilly tourists & travel junkies ! Why you may ask ? Without them it could not have spread !

individual,

It's definitely not irrelevant where and how is started unless of course you are trying to get the Chinese off the hook like you seem to be wanting to do.

It was first discovered in China, no-one can tell for certain if it originated there or the catalyst for it to start there was brought to Wuhan by perhaps even an Australian travelling in from God knows where.
At least the Chinese were smart enough to find it first. We really should look at the countries where it transmitted the fastest & most !
Cruise ships could have been the birthplace of COVID-19, not necessarily Wuhan.

individual,

You are really intent on getting the Chinese off the hook for being the source of the Covid-19 pandemic.

I guess that's why you're in the pro-China camp and I'm not.

ttbn: 'In the UK, the emotive advertising of an 'even worse strain' of the virus that has arrived is being questioned by top scientists, who say it is too early to tell if there is a new strain or not.'

The fears round the new strain (vs. clinical and conditional science language) have been initiated/promoted by Tory media to make the Johnson government's chaotic and inconsistent response appear less shambolic....

Also in the UK a website with accurate science based information and rebutting:

'What is Anti-Virus?

The Covid-19 pandemic has brought with it an avalanche of misinformation. A number of myths have persisted that suggest Covid isn't particularly dangerous, or that governments shouldn't try to contain the virus with lockdowns and other distancing measures.

We call the people who promulgate these myths even after they have been disproved "Covid Sceptics"...... Some Covid Sceptics have tended to promote one or two of the common myths; some have promoted them all.

"Sceptics" might be seen as a flattering term: scepticism is often a good thing. But as we detail below, many of the people featured here have made persistently inaccurate forecasts, repeated long-disproven claims, or engaged in faulty reasoning. Indeed, those we discuss have arguably *not been sceptical enough* about the claims of alternative "experts" who have underestimated the risks of Covid.

The arguments made by Covid Sceptics are frequently misleading, misconceived, or based on misunderstandings of the evidence. We believe these mistaken arguments are often dangerous, since they might lead people—or entire countries—to take fewer precautions against this deadly virus.

This website is dedicated to debunking common Covid Sceptic arguments, and highlighting the track record of some of the most influential and consistently-wrong Covid Sceptics. We mostly focus on UK-based people, since most of this site's creators are UK-based as well. We hope you'll link to our site whenever you see these common arguments appear.

https://www.covidfaq.co/

In the UK Bug Ridden Boris is apologising, and admitting responsibility for the deaths of over 100,000 Britons. Tens of thousands of lives could have been saved if the Conservative halfwit had took control and followed the medical advice from the start. Unfortunately like Dangerous Doctor Donald in America, Johnson took the typical Tory approach of do nothing, believing the virus would miraculously cure itself. How wrong these Conservative fools have been. Will this Conservative fool resign as he should, no such indication as yet!

What a joke, Trumps America was rated 94 out of 98 countries for its shambolic handling of the pandemic, over 420,000 Americans dead! Great effort by the Labour government of Jacinda Ardern in New Zealand, rated number one in the world for its response to the pandemic. In times of cries every country needs a strong Socialist government to take control, not a couple of Conservative nut jobs like Trump and Johnson.

Lockdowns Do Not Work

They work brilliantly for Public servants, none of them had to tighten their belts ! On the contrary, their savings increased substantially.

6,000 employers found to be wroughting Jobkeeper, putting down non existent employees, people in jail, even dead people. How many prosecutions from the 6,000....6 repeat 6. Those 6 mush have been whoppers. Billions wasted.

Luxury, cash handouts to Aged Pensioners, mostly salted away in already bloated bank accounts. Billions more wasted

Paul1405,

The LPN governments are always about creating opportunities for the rich to get richer.

"Here, it's tax payers' money. Take it, you can have as much as you want, there's more where that came from, go on take it."

It's all about sharing the taxpayers' money around because some of it will come back as political donations to the LNP.

I think it is dishonest and exploitative. Taxpayers' money is being channeled from the lower classes to the upper classes to end up back in the pockets of politicians. It's a disgrace!

LNP Job Seeker is for those in need. The fact that there are 6000 shonks tells us that there are 6000 too many Labor voting bureaudroids who facilitate the rorts to make the conservative Govt look bad. Are you a bureaudroid Paul ?

Thought this needed reposting here.

Back on the 19th of December in a post directed to Graham I said:
“This thing is off and running and despite bans on gatherings of more than 8 people and other measures Sweden's limp-wristed approach will see its likely death toll over 10,000 by the end of January unless it steps up considerably.”
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9343#314989

Back then the toll was 8,690.

It is now 11,591 and we are not quite at the end of January. So my predictions have unfortunately been significantly surpassed.

I also said “However I am confident that Denmark will get on top of this before Sweden and within a couple of weeks it will have an infection rate half that.”

The infection rate at the time in Denmark was 611. It is now 121. It managed an 80% drop compared to Sweden's 54%.

Lockdowns do work and we should be grateful we have State leadership which has served us so well during this pandemic.

Unfortunately our Federal leader was in July saying things like: “the best protection against the virus is to live with the virus, to live alongside the virus and to open up your economy”.

Things could have been a lot worse.

Steele,

Thou hast hit the wood fastener squarely in the appropriate place.

SteeleRedux,

To really protect the community it should be a bubble.

No use locking people inside their houses while at the same time allowing infected people to come into the community from outside.

I think the idea of a bubble would be a bit too complex for Soot and the Boyz to contemplate. They're all just dumbarse lawyers and administrators or something at that level.

PS Look at the fiasco of the 2019/20 bushfire catastrophe.

That should tell you what they are capable of doing.