During 2020, the pandemic has become an opportunity for far right extremists world wide to expand their mobilisation efforts around anti-government conspiracy myths and criticism of government restrictions to control the spread of Covid-19.

In Australia the parliamentary joint committee on Intelligence and Security is to examine extremist movements in Australia, including the rising threat posed by right-wing extremism. The governments move came after demands from Labor through their Home Affairs spokesperson Kristina Keneally for parliament to examine Australia’s preparedness against the increasing threat presented by right-wing extremism. Is there a degree of compliancy from some on the moderate right in Australia when it comes to dealing with the threat posed by far-right terrorism?

As recently as yesterday a NSW man with alleged extreme right-wing views was arrested by police and is now facing terrorism-related charges with police saying he supported and wanted to be involved in "a mass casualty event" which include trying to source bomb making material on the internet. "The male we've arrested has an extreme right-wing ideology and is focused on neo-Nazi, white supremacist and anti-Semitic material," AFP Assistant Commissioner Counter Terrorism Scott Lee said. It is alleged the man used social media as a way to express his support for extremist ideology.

The Christchurch massacre saw an Australian far right terrorist Brenton Tarrant murder 51 innocent people at two mosques in March 2019. The inquiry into the attack has found "(NZ) officials were overly focused on Islamist terrorism", are we falling into the same trap in Australia. That is not to say Islamist terrorism is not real, or we should not concern ourselves with it, but we should not ignore the threat posed by far-right terrorism, whilst concentrating on Islamist or extreme left-wing terrorism.

I found Far Left extremism far, far more vindictive, callous, venomous & socially destructive than any Right I've seen personally !

individual,

Then extreme Left - Greens, Communists/Marxists - have to grab at any mention of 'right extremism' (what is it this time: two 'maybe' examples?) in their feeble attempts to disguise their own ongoing, society-manipulation and anti-freedom efforts, which, as you say, are far more real and dangerous in a world where it is clear that even traditional political conservatism is going backwards.

Ind., Ttbn et al.,

That mongrel who murdered 51 innocent people (i.e. not guilty of any crime), killed more innocent people than all of the Muslim terrorists have done so far in Australia and NZ combined.

I'm not sure how many innocent people the far-left have killed in Australia, Individual, you may have detailed data on that.

No ?

Joe

According to the Australian Institute of Criminology far-right extremism in Australia is less violent and small compared with its Western counterparts. Not surprisingly, Big Tech seems to have censored anything on far left violence, and far right violence stories come from the ABC, Crikey, The Guardian and Wikipedia, all apostles of the Left.

Fortunately we have no serving politicians who could be called far right, but several Green politicians certainly project themselves as far left. Fortunately again, the Greens will never amount to anything but 8% weirdos, and the people who have been called far right in the wider community are hardly ever heard of and are about as dangerous as the Country Womens' Association.

The bloke in New Zealand was just a Muslim-hating nut case - what the apologists for Muslim terrorists call a 'lone wolf'

Hi OLO's Borderline EXTREMIST "Identities"

[including "L", hasn't commented since Albury arrest...]

whether commenters or just readers, you are invited to provide Evidence on this OLO thread, for the Government Inquiry forshadowed by Peter Dutton below.
______________________

see http://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7049415/asios-work-should-be-known-to-australians-dutton/ 10th December 2020

"ASIO'S WORK SHOULD BE KNOWN TO AUSTRALIANS [SAYS] HOME AFFAIRS MINISTER PETER DUTTON"

Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton said his request for an inquiry into EXTREMISM should help the public become better acquainted with the work of Australia's secret intelligence agencies.

ASIO was "an amazing organisation", he said a day after instigating a parliamentary inquiry into EXTREMIST ORGANISATIONS THAT MAY NOT CURRENTLY BE ON THE GOVERNMENT'S TERRORIST WATCHLIST, how they communicate and recruit new members.

"It's important for people to be properly informed," Mr Dutton told Sky News. He accused federal Labor of "speaking from a base of ignorance at the moment in relation to what's actually happening by way of effort against these extremists. So I think that educative process is important ... others can learn more about what ASIO is doing because they are working day and night."

Labor's Home Affairs spokesperson Senator Kristina Keneally welcomed the inquiry, which Labor had been pushing for so the PARLIAMENT COULD EXAMINE IF FAR RIGHT-WING EXTREMISM was being properly addressed. Australians should know if the government was tracking extremists like the CHRISTCHURCH shooter, she said.

"The fact that the Christchurch shooter was able to become so radicalised here in Australia, was able to, it would appear, engage with right wing extremist groups in this country, and was able to travel overseas to New Zealand and carry out this atrocity, this terrorist attack without Australian agencies being aware, should have been a wake up call when it happened," Senator Keneally said.

She asked why the government had not listed any right-wing extremist groups as proscribed terrorist organisations. Of the 27 terrorist organisations proscribed in Australia, 26 are Islamist and last is the PKK.

"Canada and the United Kingdom have both prescribed right wing extremist groups that have local chapters or affiliations here [in Australia]," Keneally said.

MORE TO FOLLOW BELOW

FROM ABOVE

[re see http://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7049415/asios-work-should-be-known-to-australians-dutton/ of 10th December 2020

"ASIO'S WORK SHOULD BE KNOWN TO AUSTRALIANS [SAYS] HOME AFFAIRS MINISTER PETER DUTTON]

"Mr Dutton said everyone's hindsight of the Christchurch shooting was 20-20. "I can only speak from the Australian perspective and tell you that ASIO is an amazing organisation. They've got higher levels of funding now than they ever have in their history and we'll continue to make that investment."

"We've introduced and passed 20 tranches of national security legislation to try and toughen the laws - and that's on the advice of the agencies," he said.

"Clearly we've got a very joined up arrangement between the Commonwealth and the states and territories, as evidenced yesterday in New South Wales, but as we've seen in the last couple of weeks when there was an arrest in Bundaberg in Queensland and I'm absolutely confident that ASIO is doing everything within their power to keep Australians safe."

ENDS

Extremism in all it's forms is one of the main reasons police have so strongly recommended a curb on the licensing and control of all types of Firearms in our community, and require a legitimate reason to be furnished as to why an applicant needs a F/A and to prove they're a fit and proper person to have said F/A.

This is NOT done to restrict further or irritate legitimate shooters whether sporting, rural property owners, or otherwise - it's designed as a further catchment of maniacs like the Martin BRYANT's, and that other homicidal idiot in NZ.

Unfortunately, it's the lawful shooters, who regrettable suffer as a result of the few idiots we have in the community. Before I retired, I was in a Sergeant in F/A Licencing for a few years, so I do understand and appreciate the legitimate gripes of those honest shooters who obey the law, yet who continue to suffer further F/A restrictions, through the idiocy of just a few.

But despite the best brains who've confronted the problem, including medical (Psychiatrists, Psychologists & forensic Behavioural scientists), community groups and police, there's (seemingly) no other way forward, then applying and maintaining these onerous restrictions on legitimate F/A's ownership and use, right across the entire community.

I'm not sure how many innocent people the far-left have killed in Australia, Individual, you may have detailed data on that.
loudmouth2,
Indirectly, by their insidious undermining via PC, the far Left is probably responsible for more !

First it is important to understand that the Islamic and Communistic
institutions are slowly merging their interests. Because they have
identical aims I cannot see it lasting but while it does it will make
life difficult for our defenders.
The scores for the left and the right in this country are low
fortunately but however there are more of the Islamic terrorists in
the Super Mosque at Goulburn than Right terrorists banged up elsewhere.
Actually lock them all up in the Super Mosque and that might solve all our problems.
There is no solution, they have religious and/or social ideologies
that justify the killing of others. If it reaches the level that
exists in Europe it becomes kill or be killed.

Hi individual

If there were any Far-Left terrorist killers in ALL OF AUSTRALIAN HISTORY

even you could locate them on the Internet.

If you can't there aren't.

Have we overlooked the work of Antifa, ABC praises terrorist Antifa, and wants to bring Race Riots to Australia. I'm sure they are right wing extremists; or are they? At least the ABC believe in their activity. http://xyz.net.au/2020/06/abc-praises-terrorist-antifa-wants-to-bring-race-riots-to-australia/
The group "Get Up" have been involved in many protests in Australia, and justify violence to achieve their cause. http://www.getup.org.au/media

Their goal is universal socialism and the removal of Company and property ownership and national borders. They see free thinking Western societies as their opposition

If you can't there aren't.
plantagenet,
People don't necessarily have to be hands-on to cause the death of others. Economic hardship caused by bureaucrats, injustice, social isolation, drink driving, environmental poisoning etc etc. all cause & have caused many deaths.

Hi o sung wu

Thanks for bringing up the Martin Bryant case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bryant

I reckon there are common elements of sick mind, too much money and time, and rogue male element, in most mass murderers. There is no excuse.

I say "rogue male" because, outside of blowing themselves and others up in the Middle East, female mass murderers are rare. This is compared to the numbers of men.

Also family men are rare. They value their own life, that of loved ones and strangers too much.

I reckon political causes are just rationalised excuses. Causes are artificially found and egged on.

And, yes, easy access to assault rifles (both Bryant and "NZ-idiot") don't help.

Josephus,

Wouldn't it convenient if all of our worst enemies were forever and secretly in cahoots, plotting together - Communists and Islamists, for example.

The problem is that anybody who knows anything about the historical relations between those two ideologies around the world knows very well that they are opposed on every point of principle. Yes, I suspect that they collaborate against a common enemy when it suits, but usually that alliance collapses pretty quick.

Yes, the Left engineered the overthrow of the Iranian monarchy and allowed the Islamist-right to take power back in 1979 - after which the Left was decimated.

There must be few political parties in the Middle East which are more at the mercy of rivals than the Communist parties. There are probably far more dedicated communists in Israel than in the entire Middle East, grudgingly allowed to operate under strict oversight.

Know your facts. Provide evidence for your assertions. Don't expect others to assume your theories.

Joe

Do we imagine that Australia is exempt from violence and bullying from the left and its Democrat supporters and haters of the right.
http://www.glennbeck.com/radio/democrat-rep-gives-chilling-warning-to.
From Facebook
"Big Tech has put warnings on several of President Trump's tweets because the corporate giants say his words encouraged 'violence'. Well, then, what about the recent words of a Michigan House member, Democrat Rep. Cynthia Johnson? Listen to her CHILLING warning for Trump voters and the even scarier message she has for the 'soldiers' fighting against them".
http://nypost.com/2020/12/10/mi-rep-cynthia-johnson-disciplined-by-gop-for-facebook-video/

ttn said; "Fortunately we have no serving politicians who could be called far right" then goes on to attack the Greens....in the context of Australian politics both Pauline Hanson and her One Nation party, and the short lived Corny Bernardi and his half a percent support Australian Conservative party acted for the extreme right, both parties incited racial hatred and favoured radical racial division in Australian society. These parties attract a fringe element of want-a-be ratbags and other useful idiots. The spectacular failure of the fascists like AC party would have seen some of the extremist "brown shirt" type members drift across to One Nation where they now dwell on the fringe. Are you on that fringe these days TTBN?

Paul, just because you say it does not make it true.
In fact I suspect that you do not believe it yourself.
I think you are just playing the cancel game but no one wants to play with you.

I think it may be better not to get sidetracked on:

- Politicians who are nowhere near being Extremist Terrorist leaders or cell members

- and avoid Spreading discussion to non-Extremist subjects, like someone who tried to extend the argument to:

"Economic hardship caused by bureaucrats, injustice, social isolation, drink driving, environmental poisoning etc etc. all cause & have caused many deaths."

Yes so-called right-wing extremism is rising - from bugger-all to SFA.

Its an issue but not even close to the major issue in regards to terrorism. We all know what the major terrorist threat in Australia is - it starts with 'I' and ends in 'slam'.

This whole right-wing extremist meme is merely a mechanism to divert attention from the main game.

Equally, if you're gunna call someone right-wing, perhaps you ought to define 'right'. The Christchurch shooter (he doesn't deserve to be named) described himself as an eco-fascist.
Eco= ecology = environmentalist = left. And fascism was a left wing ideology. So not a right-wing extremist, a left wing nationalist extremist.

That's assuming you need to label him. You could also just as easily label him a nutcase without the need to bring politics into it. But - never let a crisis go to waste.

Hi Pete,

The danger presented by some politicians like Hanson is the way they may not directly condone terrorism, and I certainly don't believe Hanson does, but inadvertently through a degree of "hate speak" she and others send messages of encouragement to extremists, and they will attract such people to their fringes. That is a separate issue involving free speech etc. What I am asking here is whilst we have correctly identified Islamic terrorism as a major concern, are we with a preoccupation for such, underscoring and failing to identify other forms of extremism. I must say Australia has been most effective in combating Islamic terrorism. However, there is some evidence that we have been lax when it comes to other forms of terrorism, the Christchurch inquiry in NZ, found NZ authorities had been blindsided somewhat when it came to dealing with non-Islamic terrorism, Australia seems to be guilty as well. Added to that is the identification by allied countries, Britain and Canada for two, of named dangerous extremist non-Islamic groups within their boarders, groups that are shown to have affiliates in Australia.

If this Forum is to be any gauge of public opinion you can see some, most likely for politically biased reasons, will not take what is termed right wing extremism seriously. Some posters are content to deflect to outrage with the "left", or simply dismiss it, as in the way mhaze said; "Yes so-called right-wing extremism is rising - from bugger-all to SFA." While we have people with that attitude extremism can only grow. Hopefully this parliamentary inquiry will shed some light on the problem.

It's good to see posters rebutting uninformed, semi-literate bigots and Green extremists like Number 1405, who get all their information from leftist media and Big Tech.

Put 'left wing extremists in Australia' into Google and you will be smacked in the eye with information on RIGHT wing extremism on the first page - which is as far as most people look. The real extremists, Google, Twitter, Facebook, Wikipedia, the Greens and the dog's body ABC, all censor the truths about the Left which has infiltrated every aspect of our lives, including once conservative political parties like the Australian Liberal Party, the UK Conservative Party, and the US Republican Party; and, obviously, the United Nations, which is aiming at being a world government, bolstered by the Great Reset extreme leftists and the Trilateral Committee since the 1970s. It's only with the help of the China virus and the climate change swindle, with all the fear mongering and loss of freedoms that have become common, that they have come out into the open, via the German Dr. No-like creature Klaus Schwab. Massive threats from the Left are now out in the open. They are out in the open because most of us have shown little or no resistance. The Leftist hyenas can smell our indifference to the coming loss of democracy and freedoms, and they are coming to finish us off. And, we don't have sufficient politicians of the calibre needed to resist; most of them, from the PM down, will will do what is necessary to keep themselves above the rest of us.

"The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world". (Klaus Schwab, Founder and Executive Chairman, World Economic Forum).

This 82 year old wannabe dictator is a private private citizen, not elected by anyone to make any decisions for the rest of. There are a lot more like him, who need rooting out and exposing as the real extremists and real threats to democracy

The best thing that Sky News can come up with today about our wet Prime Minister that he is confident that Australia can meet its Paris targets! This from a man who is PM only because he pretended to be different from Labor on climate hysteria.

Already on the Internet at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_Australia#2000s_onward

Antipodean Resistance

Main article: Antipodean Resistance

Antipodean Resistance (AR) is an Australian neo-Nazi group. Formed in October 2016, the group's flag features a swastika. The group's logo features the black sun and Totenkopf (skull head) with an Akubra hat, a laurel wreath and a swastika.[46]

Antipodean Resistance promotes and incites hatred and violence, as illustrated in its anti-Jewish and anti-homosexual posters, with graphic images of shooting Jews and homosexuals in the head. One poster called to "Legalise the execution of Jews."[47][48][49]

In 2017, it was reported that ASIO, the Australian national security organisation, was monitoring the group, who were "willing to use violence to further their own interests."[50]"

Ttbn,

So, anyone who suggests that it's always a good time to "reflect, reimagine, and reset our world", is a would-be dictator ?

Problem is that it's ALWAYS a good time to "reflect, reimagine, and reset our world". For all of us, not just the alt-right fruit-cakes who implicitly expect that this is their sole right.

I'm amazed at the 100 %, either-or, black-white, way of thinking of some of the alt-right. For example, that corker of Mhaze's -

"Eco = ecology = environmentalist = left."

Well, no, I think of myself as 'left', but don't support the climate hysteria of much of the 'left', if that's what you mean by "environmentalist": certainly climate change is occurring, and some, or much, of it by increasing carbon emissions, but I expect that capitalist technological development over the next thirty years will alleviate or eliminate that problem, as it seems to be doing with the Covid-19 virus.

Right and left are very broad churches, Mhaze, and the middle, even more so. The extremes may attract maybe 8-10 % of right and left ratbags, but 80-84 % of people operate around the sensible centre. You haven't found some new Golden Rule.

Joe

Hi Pete,

It's all over, Red Rover:

http://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/us/politics/supreme-court-election-texas.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201211&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=127104467&segment_id=46718&user_id=35fd54d942ac9b9e288ef933afd6d6f5

No more bogus court cases. More than five weeks after the election. But what's the bet that Trumpf won't recognise the Supreme
Court ? Even his own appointees ? He'll go on about loyalty, and betrayal, etc. Just a big, spoilt kid.

Joe

Left Big Tech suppressed Biden's son's shonky activities BEFORE the US election. Information that could have affected the result of the election (it is genuine, and will go before the courts) was suppressed by a Leftist media organisation.

That's extremism.

Ttbn,

No. Your sooky-boy lost. He got more votes than any other sitting president, but Biden got seven million more. If that's extremism, then it's 'extreme democracy'.

Most of the justices on the US Supreme Court are conservatives, not progressive by any stretch. Yet they too have thrown out this latest BS claim.

Your lot blew it. Move on. Otherwise you are really starting to seem like a psychotic :)

i.e. an extremist.

Joe

Ttbn,

I hope someone is keeping track of extremist incidents ike his one:

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/car-ploughs-into-protesters-in-new-york-city/news-story/500d418e7f0d20ac45236d35e4330d12

We have to combat violent extremism from whatever crackpot ideology it springs from.

Joe

Hi ttbn
and other Remaining Trump Fantasists (RTFs)

In support of Joe's timely reminder that Trump is a goner see further details of the article Joe referred to http://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/us/politics/supreme-court-election-texas.html note:

"SUPREME COURT REJECTS TEXAS SUIT SEEKING TO SUBVERT ELECTION"

"WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Friday [11 Dec 2020] rejected a lawsuit by Texas that had asked the court to throw out the election results in four battleground states that President Trump lost in November, ending any prospect that a brazen attempt to use the courts to reverse his defeat at the polls would succeed."

[The US Supreme Court] "with three justices appointed by Mr. Trump refused to be drawn into the extraordinary effort by the president and many prominent members of his party to deny his Democratic opponent, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., his victory.

It was the latest and most significant setback for Mr. Trump in a litigation campaign that was rejected by courts at every turn..."
____________________________

SEE VIDEO REPORT ON THIS
and the failure of integrity of Republicans who don't want to incur Trump's increasingly arrogant wrath http://youtu.be/psYu7hWpDZU?t=42m

I don't give a fig whether an individual is from the Left, the Centre, or Right Wing. ANYBODY who attempts to harm an individual, whatever their beliefs, should feel the full force of the law, without exception.

I've had dealings with some of the most vicious killers in the State of NSW, probably the most well known, is Alan BAKER & Kevin CRUMP (Mrs Virginia MORSE murder, of Moree), and it was up to a small group of us to protect these two filthy vermin, so the law could be applied and they get their just punishments. And they did, and they're still in gaol, never to be released!

Not only were we there to protect them from the population of Moree, but from other detectives who'd gladly risk life imprisonment to destroy these two maggots, as a public service. But as much as I loathed them, as did every other copper involved in the case, our own emotions and any sense of revenge, must be held in check, otherwise we're no worse than the extremist, that we ourselves condemn. Otherwise, why have laws, the Courts, the judiciary, goals and police?

And for the record Alan BAKER was the ringleader, as Kevin CRUMP could neither read nor write at the time, save for the 'Racing Form', go figure?

Hi Paul

Yes the position and statements of just some politicians in Australia may give comfort/justification

to some extremists.

I see a coming problem with TRUMP's failure to win enough votes from Americans and his failure

to win well considered and legal, Court decisions.

As TRUMP cannot accept failure he will attempt to persuade his minority of extremist

supporters to take illegal/violent actions (eg. driving into crowds, bullets, home-made bombs).

As in most things, what happens in America has RIPPLES in AUSTRALIA.

Some already extreme AUSTRALIANS may follow the US violent extremist lead just before and

up to 6 months after Biden's Inuguration (Thursday 21 January 2021 our time).

AUSTRALIAN extremists fear the fair vote of democracy almost as much as US extremists.

With both groups whipped up by TRUMP's rightwing-extremist-tolerant rhetoric.
________________

Comments on some limitations of Dutton's Inquiry tomorrow.

It's a sad show indeed when the worse are pointing the finger at the bad !

The new enemy of the fringe dwellers "Left Big Tech". Sick of the nut job ravings of Trump, Twitter, Goggle and Facebook said enough is enough and warned readers tha Trump was peddling unproven claims. Now the Forum fringe dweller calls them "Left Big Tech". Well ttbn keep trying, you might back a winner one day.

Hi Paul,

Big tech is of course big capitalism. Those tech firms are the most advanced forms of capitalist accumulation known to humankind.

Trump will flail around, blaming everybody for his loss and humiliation, even his mother: he'll probably demand that the US air force nuclear-bomb the Outer Hebrides*.

*. Trump's mother, Mary Anne McLeod, was born in Lewis, in the Outer Hebrides of Scotland, UK.

What a worthless turd of a human.

Joe

What a worthless turd of a human.
loudmouth2,
And, how many people have you employed thus far ?

"What a worthless turd of a human."

And thats being kind to the moral coward whose lack of Covid Leadership killed 304,944 Americans

so far http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The thuggery of the Victorian police under Daniel Andrews is the worst type of abuse currently in Australia, and Andrews is certainly not Right Wing politics.

I'll provide comments on the Dutton Inquiry tomorrow/Monday. The more bods at their workplaces, to check my more sensitive comments, the better.

Individua,

I'm not sure what the connection is between employing people and not being a turd: are you suggesting that only people who don't empoy other people can be turds ? That employers can't be turds ?

Wow, what rock have you been living under all these years ?

Joe

loudmouth2,
none of the things you say, just showing that there's no difference between you & Trump !

Individual,

How dare you !? Are you suggesting that, like Trump, I'm a philanderer, slimeball, turd, bully and braggart, sook, liar and waste-of-space ?

That somehow, I'm completely incompetent, moronic, infantile, vicious and spiteful, xenophobic and racist, misogynist, incredibly lazy and basically useless ?

That my best, and maybe only, friends are Putin, Erdogan, and/or in the Mafia, and that I want to give Kim Jong-Un a blow-job ?

Okay, that's Trump's better side. And yes, I do have faults. But really, your equation is quite upsetting.

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

If the hat fits, wear it.

Hi Joe

Don't worry what indi and MOp say. For they a simpletons and not in a good way.

From a position of anonymity they snipe at the good, the kind and considerate, a la you.

Like extremists, something in their sad lives has excessively twisted their values and judgement. They are mentally unable to discern the Good from the Bad (Trump). They are left with the Ugly.
_______________________________

Trump, like Hitler, conned a whole nation, but the strength of American Democracy blocked Trump from triggering an External War.

Trump has instead triggered an Internal US conflict of Values.

As a REAL LEADER Biden has a major task healing America.
________________________________

TOMORROW'S formal Electoral College Vote will see Trump's last Vote Appeal gasp...Thank God!

Eternal GOLFing damnation awaits Trump.

The world's greatest spy novelist JOHN LE CARRÉ sadly died at 89 a day ago.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-14/john-le-carre-british-spy-author-dies-aged-89/12980550

LE CARRÉ's specialty was the usually effete, Bureaucratic-Traumatic end of Cold War MI6 style spying.

The main enemy, the Russians, generally played by diplomatic-covert-info-collection rules.

This in no way reflects the greater physical dangers Australian Intelligence Officers

involved in Counter-Terrorism experience today. EXTREMISTS, be they Islamic, Far-Left,

Far-Right or one-man NutJobs, know no diplomatic rules and frequently have violent, criminal, records.
_______________________________
-

Relevant to OLO's Over-representative Band of TRUMP TROLLS :

Le Carré opposed both TRUMP and Russian President PUTIN, arguing that their desire to seek

or maintain their countries' superpower status caused a impulse "for oligarchy, the dismissal

of the truth, the contempt, actually, for the electorate and for the democratic system."

Le Carré compared TRUMP's tendency to dismiss the media as "FAKE NEWS" to the Nazi book
burnings and wrote the US is "heading straight down the road to institutional racism

and neo-fascism."

In his final novel "Agent Running in the Field" he criticizes TRUMP's foreign policy as subservient

to Russia and faults the British government for cooperating with the US under TRUMP's presidency.

One of the novel's characters referred to TRUMP as "Putin's shiithouse cleaner" who "does

everything for PUTIN that PUTIN can’t do himself: pisses on European unity, pisses on human rights

pisses on NATO. Assures us that Crimea and Ukraine belong to the Holy Russian Empire

...and to hell with the world order."
_______________________________________
-

JOHN LE CARRÉ is sadly missed by those with a conscience who can also read books.

PUTIN'S BUM-BOY, TRUMP, REMAINS.

Thanks, Pete.

I'll look out for that last book, it sounds like a beauty.

Joe

To aid in providing future submissions to Dutton's future Extremism Inquiry, comes an abridged version of:

"Australian National Security: Listed terrorist organisations"

[as at 14th December 2020]

For an effective counter-terrorism regime, it is vital that our laws target not only terrorist acts, but also the organisations that plan, finance and carry out such acts. In 2002, a range of terrorist organisation offences were inserted into the Criminal Code Act 1995. More information is available on the Laws to combat terrorism page [ http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/WhatAustraliaisdoing/Pages/Laws-to-combat-terrorism.aspx ].

Under the law, there are two ways for an organisation to be identified as a terrorist organisation. The prosecution can prove beyond reasonable doubt that an organisation is a terrorist organisation as part of the prosecution for a terrorist offence. Alternatively, the organisation may be specified in Regulations as a terrorist organisation. This process, known as 'listing', requires certain processes set out in the legislation to be followed.

For more information on the process and requirements that apply to the listing of terrorist organisations, go to the Protocol for listing terrorist organisations page [ http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/ProtocolForListingTerroristOrganisations.aspx ].

Currently, 27 organisations are listed as terrorist organisations under the Criminal Code.

Currently listed organisation are:

• Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)

• Al-Qa'ida (AQ)

• Al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)

• Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS)

• Al-Qa’ida in the Lands of the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)

• Al-Shabaab

• Boko Haram

• Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades

• Hizballah's External Security Organisation (ESO)

• Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan

• Islamic State

• Islamic State East Asia

• Islamic State in Libya (IS-Libya)

• Islamic State Khorasan Province

• Islamic State Sinai Province (IS-Sinai)

• Islamic State Somalia

• Islamic State West Africa Province

• Jabhat Fatah al-Sham

• Jaish-e-Mohammad

• Jama’at Mujahideen Bangladesh

• Jama’at Nusrat al-Islam wal-Muslimin

• Jemaah Anshorut Daulah

• Jemaah Islamiyah (JI)

• Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)

• Lashkar-e-Jhangvi

• Lashkar-e-Tayyiba

• Palestinian Islamic Jihad

NATIONAL SECURITY HOTLINE 1800 123 400"

See the FULL VERSION with all HYPERLINKS and DATES when each Terrorist Organisation was Listed and/or Re-Listed, at http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/default.aspx

plantagenet, how many of these are Right Wing? Those with sympathies with these groups in Australia support the Greens policies. So how do you define Right Wing?

Dearest Josephus

For YOU, an American citizen, resident of Phoenix ARIZONA, I say Far-Left, Far-Right are, most probably, not legal definitions under Australian law.

If you continue to still be a good little Trump Extremist AND after Biden gets in, maybe ring your local FBI Office on:

+1 623-466-1999

and they may ask you to drop some time, at:

21711 N 7th St, Phoenix, AZ 85024, US of A.

Let your FBI determine whether your residual Extremism has violent potential.

You know, like your fellow religious?, terrorist American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

Cheers

Planta

plantagenet,
So anyone who holds opinions opposite to yours is a right Wing Extremist.
Got It!
For me anyone who uses thuggery as a form of control is an extremist, i.e. Victorian Police.

Giday Josephus

If you have a beef with the Victorian Police (did they turn you round at Mel Airport?

pre-extradition back to Phoenix?) please put your personal cards on the table, sir.

OLO will "listen".

When I see the way they handled two aged women sitting in a Park bench and a young woman in her home - plus, they are extreme measures.

Daniel Andrews proposed bill- "The prohibition of counselling a person applies whether or not the subject consented. The penalty is up to 10 years’ imprisonment or an enormous fine.
Complaints can be made anonymously and come “from any person”, even those not involved. In other words, it is a charter for anti-religious activists to harass and intimidate churches or individuals who speak against sexual dysphoria at no cost to the complainant.
COVID-19 became an excuse for leaders such as Daniel Andrews to flirt with authoritarianism. He has clearly acquired a taste for it. This bill betrays a government that has lost every trace of modesty. It is insensitive to the boundaries between public and private life in a liberal democracy.
It is not just church leaders who might find themselves in strife for failing to affirm a person’s sexual or gender identity. Parents are in trouble, too. The Human Rights Law Alliance warns that “parents who struggle with their 13-year-old daughter’s sudden presentation of gender confusion and who oppose chemical and surgical practices to transition appearance to that of a male, could be made criminals and face jail time”.
None of this will surprise anyone with a child in a Victorian state school where the wishes of the parent are routinely dismissed on matters of gender identity. The Victorian Education Department has created a unique category of child they call “mature minors”, students who in the opinion of a school principal or other professional can make their own decisions about gender identity without parental consent. Hence a child too young to consent to sex is considered capable of making decisions about their gender.

Pete,

I would have thought that all of the designated groups that you listed, except the Kurdistan People's Party, would have to be classified as right-wing. The KPP was probably on that list to satisfy the Turkish government, being seen (perhaps rightly) as a communist front organisation) and one which is staunchly anti-Islamist.

The Turkish government could conceivably be classified as right-wing and Islamist. Trump's abandonment of the Kurds was a step in the direction of supporting the Turks and perhaps Islamism generally. Of course, it may have been no more than a gesture on Trump's part to curry favour with the Turks in building his Istanbul Trump Towers.

Joe

Hi Joe

Maybe - may be not.

What I reckon all on the list are Islamist, except the PKK. The PKK may very well fill the cliche "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" but I'm not in government.

"anti-Islamist"? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds#Religion "Today, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school. The Kurdish following of the Shafi legal code has caused some tension when pushed up against Sunni Turks and Sunni Arabs who subscribe to the Hanafi legal code."

Re terrorism - official Australian Government view being http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/KurdistanWorkersPartyPKK.aspx

RISK MANY "FAITHLESS ELECTORS" MAY "CROSS THE FLOOR" TO TRUMP TOMORROW

A chance Trump may "win" tomorrow.
_____________________________________

Hi again Joe (and all other men and women of anti-Trump virtue)

There is a risk many in the Electoral College (bribed or threatened by Trump) may become "faithless electors"

who "cross the floor" in favour of Trump tomorrow.

This kind of activity went on in 2016 - see
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-14/us-electoral-college-vote-joe-biden-donald-trump-president/12969538

"Sometimes electors break from their party's pledge. They are called "faithless electors".

It happened in 2016 when seven electors went against tradition to vote against their own state's

directives, marking the largest number of faithless electors in more than a century.

So in what is normally a formality, the electoral college vote took extra prominence that year,

even though the faithless electors did not ultimately change the result of the election."

As Trump seems happy to do anything to win there may be A SHARP SPIKE IN FAITHLESS ELECTORS TOMORROW

See "The ABC will be running a live blog covering the electoral college vote, from 7:00am AEDT on December 15."

A result is expected around Midday Tomorrow.

Cross Fingers for only a FEW of NO "faithless electors" tomorrow.

Pete

....slimeball, turd,....
loudmouth2,
Prove otherwise, the ball's in your court !

Individual,

A bit arse-up :) I'm asserting that Trump is as you say, so it's not up to me to 'prove' that he isn't.

I would have thought that it was your job, since it's his arse that you enjoy kissing. Sorry, yes, some people have all the impossible tasks :(

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

It's easy to see why they call you Foul-Mouth.

loudmouth2,
It might pay you to do a TAFE course in integrity !

individual,

Why should Fould-Mouth spend time doing a TAFE course when he can just invent another half dozen make-believe degrees for himself?

Indi and MOp

Face it. Joe knows more and is of finer character than the two of you in tangled rapture together.

The Electoral College voted today in affirming Trump lost and Biden Won. Hopefully Trump's pathological resistence to the fair vote result will now cease. But probably not.
__________________________

Trump has just effectively sacked his own Attorney-General, Barr, only 35 days prior to the Trump Admin ending. This is because Barr told the public the truth that there was no major voter fraud.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-says-attorney-general-barr-resigns-20201215-p56njg.html
________________________________

Read Paul1405's sage words from another thread:

"Trump was banking on conservative judges putting aside the law and applying their political partisanship to the outcome. Trump was seriously mistaken to think that way. Like in Australia and Britain, American judges take their oath of office most seriously and will steadfastly apply the law, even when it goes against their political grain."

Hi Pete,

Isn't democracy wonderful ?!

Maybe now, the slimy turd of Trumpf can slide off down his drain, and his lickspittles can crawl down after him.

What the Trumpian-Swampian response to this election has exposed is the filthy underbelly of backward, hick, cracker, redneck, unthinking, smug, usually-white-and-Christian, back-blocks Americans. Yes, the US is certainly divided, into red and blue, urban and hick. But it's also shone a bright light on the promise of Americans working hard together, to build a better society for all Americans, not just hick whites.

Maybe the hicks could be funded to be repatriated back to their hillbilly homelands, back to sleeping with their cousins and 'uncles' and aunties. As a reward, they could each be given a full collection of Charley Pride's albums, as a reminder of what they'll miss.

Ah, democracy ! With all your faults, your forever-unfinishedness, your blind alleys and back-tracks, your unpredictable dynamism ! Wonderful !

Wouldn't be dead for quids, Hanrahan !

Joe

You smell that! You smell that? Thats Napalm Joe :)

US authorities fear the chances of a Trump SCORCHED EARTH demonstration before Inauguration morning.

Why has Trump been sacking his more PRINCIPLED defence and national security people - Since the Election?

Here's Trump (minus his shirt and sanity) now http://youtu.be/Jts9suWIDlU?t=1m10s

"Smells like [the]..........Victory"

that Trump never legally won.

plantagenet,
In what way other than a much smaller scale, is loudmouth2 different to Trump ?

Hi Individual,

Well, I'm a bit shorter and fatter for a start. And, so far, I have all my own hair, naturally coloured. And growing up in Bankstown doesn't compare to inheriting $ 600 million.

And of course, I'm far better looking, and a nicer person generally, except for my cruel derision of village idiots. There's a few of those on OLO, you're not alone :(

Apart from that, I can't really understand your post.

Joe

North Queensland MP Bob Katter has been recorded taking a membership pledge for far-right “western chauvinist” group, the Proud Boys. The Proud Boys have been linked recently to several violent acts in America, including at least two shootings. Should we be concerned with the antics of The Mad Katter? Is far right Americanism spreading to Australia. Last year senior members of One Nation Steve Dickson and James Ashby were secretly filmed trying to solicit money from American gun nutters. One of these is in parliament, and the other two have strong parliamentary links through Pauline Hanson. And we shouldn't be concerned

I can't really understand your post.
loudmouth2,
you give the impression of not understanding anything to do with integrity, decency & a healthy mentality !

On the raw prawn again Paul.

The Proud Boys have been linked to at least 2 shootings.

How many did the black lives matter lot kill

How many did the Muslims kill in the trade center attack?

I guess that makes it proud boys 2, BLM a few hundred, Muslims 3000+.

US right anger has been slow to appear, but it just might be about to explode. 2 shootings might be the least of the lefts worries.

Hi Paul

Yes Katter (Proud Boy oath?) doesn't come out of this June 2019 article well

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/bob-katter-has-pledged-allegiance-to-the-far-right-group-proud-boys-in-a-youtube-video

Hi Hasbeen

Check out Timothy McVeigh (1968 – 2001) a White American domestic terrorist who carried out

the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building , killing 168 people

and injuring more than 680.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

Motivations:

The late McVeigh was violently anti-US Government. "He hoped to inspire a revolution against

the federal government, and defended the bombing as a legitimate tactic against what

he saw as a tyrannical government."

These days he might be categorised with the loose Sovereign Citizen Extremist movement

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

Hassy, you being a country squire and all, I'm sure you'd be a "Nat Man", possibly even a member. Do you recall the "Nazi's in the Nationals", and before them, there was the "Ugly Faction" in the NSW Liberals, a collection of extremist Eastern European fascists who joined up after fleeing Europe like rats post WWII.

Hassy, you could tell them all how you favoured, on this very forum, the nuking of 200 million innocent men, women and children in Pakistan, on the pretext of "get them, before they get you" I'm sure you remember that one. Gee, could that idea be considered extreme? Sounds like something a Proud Boy on steroids would say!

Paul1405,
I suppose you being a concrete jungle bunny are a Green/Labor member !

Hi Paul

Be kind to Hassy.

He may be getting on a bit and is permanently shagged out cos of all the Speed Boat Hood Ornament Birds he bonks.

But, by the abysmal standards of OLO's Trumpets, Hassy is of good heart and continual clowning.

Cheers

David,

Can any state or territory government here lean over the shoulder of any other state or territory government and tell it what to do ?

No.

Can any State or territory government demand from the Australian High Court that it tell it to do so ?

No.

Similar, so it seems, in the US. One state can't dictate that the Supreme Court there leans over the shoulder of any other state and do things in the way that the first one wants.

Even Justice Coney Barrett has told the Texas marshals to bugger off.

There's your answer. Now YOU can bugger off.

Joe

Oops, wrong thread :)

Yep individual, all these concrete jungle types have to belong to some tribe or other, not enough to be independent as that would require thinking for themselves. They are always mouthing what was on Chanel 7 last night, or even worse what ever lefty rubbish they saw on their ABC.

Bring them out into the bush, & if the fresh air didn't kill them, they would be too frightened to go out side in case a grass hopper or butter fly attacked them.

Pansies the lot of them.

Pansies the lot of them.
Hasbeen,
Biting the hands that feed them parasites I say. None of them willing to give a year to the Nation that feeds & protects them !

I do.

Hasbeen & Individual,

You both may have a point. At least in relation to experiencing life in Aboriginal 'communities', the city people may wish, and bleed for, and empathise with, but in fifty years, extremely few have ever actually gone out, even or a day or two, to see what life was actually like there. nd that includes the hot-shot Indigenous elites.

I remember when Charlie Perkins came out to one 'community', in maybe 1981, to check it out for a million-dollar (i.e. % 5 million these days) almond-orchard project. His cavalcade drove in, stayed maybe an hour, and drove out again even faster.

It's a tragedy but city and rural/remote areas are more distant from each other than ever before. The well-meaning 'left' take the word of Johnny-come-lately Blackfella wan.kers* who themselves might either hear rumour from somebody or, much more rarely, spend an hour or so at a 'community' before tippim-elbow-time.

So 'left' whites take the word of a fraud like Bruce Pascoe (see above *). Sometimes, I think that Indigenous ideology is fifty years behind, all over again, groundhog day.

Joe

loudmouth2,
Can't argue with that ! I have witnessed many wide-eyed, open-mouthed academic "experts" crawling all over the communities & exploiting the system fundings !
They always ensured some self-proclaimed 'indigenous' spokes persons with a bit of tan
sat among them.

Come on Joe, Charles Perkins, did more for the advancement of Aboriginal people that anyone. Pandering to the likes of Indy, sure the guy has a racists slant, and is always at the ready to slander the Aboriginal cause.

It is but true Joe. If indi (from his dark world) agrees with you you've written something wrong.

Your anecdote may be right (politicians do symbolic stunts) but Perkins' broader political contribution was beneficial.

Sorry Paul, just telling it like it was. The community council had decided to rip out their 88 acres of grapes (glut of one sort of red-wine grape) and 20 acres of stone-fruit (salt-damp) and 150 acres of lucerne (gone sour), and stop growing the 2000 acres of grain (too dry), with the beautiful, free, dirty-big brand-new Massey-Ferguson tractor, and sold off their 200 stud merinos (too much trouble with dogs) - and put 300 acres of almonds in. With 8000 acres, it might just have been possible to have it all. But nah.

Anyway, they needed a million-dollar loan for the almonds, so Charley drove out with an entourage of maybe four or five limos, stayed for an hour or so and drove out again, after approving the loan. So two community blokes maintained the orchard, mowing weeds and turning the water on and off, for the local processing company to harvest and process.

Imagine everyone's surprise when the loan was later turned into a grant ! Who could have believed it ?!

It was/is called 'self-determination'.

I was a believer and, in spite of nothing but counter-experience, a believer for thirty years. But clearly, across the entire country, it's been a total disaster. Thousands of 'communities', most with running water and probably not one with a vegetable garden, the most basic and easily-initiated project.

Would that it wasn't so, Paul, but ....... If only Aboriginal people had been farmers, like Maori and other Polynesians .....

Joe

Sorry Paul, just telling it like it was. The community council has decided to rip out their 88 acres of grapes and 20 acres of stone-fruit and 150 acres of lucerne, and stop growing the 2000 acres of grain with the beautiful, free, dirty-big brand-new Massey-Ferguson tractor, and put 300 acres of almonds in. With 8000 acres, it might just have been possible to have both. But nah.

Anyway, they needed a million-dollar loan, so Charley drove out with an entourage of maybe four or five limos, stayed for an hour or so and drove out again, after approving the loan.

Imagine everyone's surprise when the loan was later turned into a grant ! Who could have believed it ?!

It was/is called 'self-determination'.

I was a believer and, in spite of nothing but counter-experience, a believer for thirty years. But clearly, across the entire country, it's been a total disaster. Thousands of 'communities', most with running water and probably not one with a vegetable garden, the most basic and easily-initiated project.

Would that it wasn't so, Paul, but ....... If only Aboriginal people had been farmers, like Maori and other Polynesians .....

Joe

Joe,

" but ....... If only Aboriginal people had been farmers, like Maori and other Polynesians ....."

How can you say that?

We have the written word of Bruce Pascoe, a genuine Australian Indigenous man, and others that Australia was extensively farmed before 1788.

Meanwhile. Back on topic.

And giving an idea of a recent matter.

The Australian Federal Police News & Media branch distributed the following release on 10th Dec 2020: http://www.afp.gov.au/news-media/media-releases/updated-nsw-joint-counter-terrorism-team-charge-18-year-old-albury-man

"UPDATED: NSW Joint Counter Terrorism Team [JCTT] charge 18-year-old Albury man"

"Editor’s note: Footage and images of the arrest are available for media use.

A man from the southern NSW city of Albury has been charged with terrorism-related offences following a NSW Joint Counter Terrorism Team (JCTT) investigation.

The investigation began in August 2020 after NSW JCTT investigators became aware of a number of online posts containing an extreme right wing ideology that indicated potential criminal activity.

It will be alleged in court that the man has regularly used social media forums and communications applications during 2020 to encourage other people to commit violent acts in furtherance of an extreme right wing ideology.

NSW JCTT investigators became concerned about the escalating content of some of the man’s communications, which allegedly indicated his willingness to commit a violent and criminal act. The decision was made to execute a search warrant on his Albury residence.

Australian Federal Police Assistant Commissioner Counter Terrorism Scott Lee said NSW JCTT investigators were concerned about the man’s actions to date, and made a decision to act early to ensure community safety.

“The sole aim of today’s activity was to ensure the safety of the community by preventing further planning, preparations or advocacy by this man that could have resulted in an attack in Australia,” he said.

“The investigation into this matter remains ongoing, but we remain wary about the speed with which lone actors can progress from online activities to ones that impact the real world. It highlights the commitment and professionalism of the people and agencies involved in the JCTT, and their desire to protect the community by bringing people to account for their criminal actions.”

MORE TO FOLLOW BELOW

FROM ABOVE

NSW Police Force Counter Terrorism and Special Tactics Commander, Assistant Commissioner Mark Walton, said regardless of the nature of a person’s extremist views, there was no place for them within our community.

“The NSW JCTT will continue to work together to ensure the community is protected from those who seek to do us harm, and those who think they can exploit the online environment to spread their extremist ideologies.

“If we see activity that concerns us – as we have during the course of this investigation – we will act swiftly to ensure that activity does not escalate.

“I would like to take this opportunity to remind the community that they are our eyes and ears – so if you see something online, report it. Your information is often invaluable in assisting investigations such as this one.”

The man has been charged with one count each of the following offences:

Urging violence against members or groups, contrary to section 80.2A (1) of the Criminal Code Act 1995 (Cth). The maximum penalty for this offence is seven years imprisonment.

Advocating Terrorism, contrary to section 80.2C (1) of the Criminal Code Act 1995 (Cth). The maximum penalty for this offence is five years imprisonment.

He is expected to face Albury Local Court today (Thursday 10 December), and an application will be made to have the matter heard in a Sydney court at a later date.

The NSW JCTT is comprised of members from the Australian Federal Police, NSW Police Force, Australian Security Intelligence Organisation and the NSW Crime Commission.

Anyone with information about extremist activity or possible threats to the community should come forward, no matter how small or insignificant you may think the information may be. The National Security Hotline is 1800 123 400.

There is no ongoing threat to the community relating to this investigation.

Media enquiries:
NSW Police Media: (02) 8263 6100
AFP Media: (02) 5126 9297"

ENDS

See more at http://www.afp.gov.au/news-media/media-releases

Hi Joe, do many isolated communities lack the business skills and the know how to operate such large scale diverse enterprises. I suspect so.

when you say;

"The community council had decided to rip out their 88 acres of grapes (glut of one sort of red-wine grape) and 20 acres of stone-fruit (salt-damp) and 150 acres of lucerne (gone sour), and stop growing the 2000 acres of grain (too dry), with the beautiful, free, dirty-big brand-new Massey-Ferguson tractor, and sold off their 200 stud merinos (too much trouble with dogs) - and put 300 acres of almonds in. With 8000 acres, it might just have been possible to have it all. But nah."

40 years ago Joe, can you honestly say the "community council" would be allowed to make a unilateral decision such as that, the first or second decision, without white fella involvement. Recently government has admitted that an overriding paternalistic approach of "Whitey knows best" has existed in Aboriginal affairs, with disastrous results. Good fodder for a redneck like Indy to point the finger at.

Sorry, Paul, that should have been '2000 stud Merinos'.

Yes, that's how it went. The community got self-management in 1974. The last white supervisors (Block, Farm, Building, Mechanics) left at the end of 1976. Those decisions were indeed made. by the community council, from 1977 onwards.

And that almond orchard is now call dead, by the way. And the yabbie farm, $ 5 million of grants, is also overgrown. Actually it never produced a single saleable yabbie.

Yes, it's unbelievable. How could people be either so stupid or so useless, or both ? I suspect, both. So many opportunities on so many 'communities' like that.

That's how it has been, and it's not getting any better. Sorry :(. My advice to anybody still on 'communities/ is to get the hell off and into towns - do any job, look after your kids, get them into the best schools, work your arse off to make sure they get on their feet: that's your destiny. And never go back. 'Community' is the enemy.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Spoke to friend in Fiji this morning, via 'Messenger', said around his area of Sigatoka things are okay with mostly roof damage and flooding, but others have not been so lucky in other areas and islands, with major damage to homes, hard to get news. The night was a bit wild, by this morning the storm was moving away slowly. Been a bad year there with Covid-19 wrecking the tourist industry, my friend operates a taxi so not much income, no Jobkeepers or Seekers in Fiji.

Hi Paul,

Keep your fingers crossed :)

Is there any way of knowing if Foxy is OK ?

Joe

Hi Joe,

Foxy has not been on for a while now. Hope all is okay.

Calling all Trumpsters, you know who you are!

Sweden's King Carl XVI Gustaf in his annual message to the nation has said his country has "FAILED" to save lives, over 7,000 deaths so far, with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic. The message was first reviewed by the government which did not object to the Kings remarks.

So where are all those Trumpsters, ttbn, mehaze etc who earlier claimed Sweden was the 'Gold Standard' for Covid-19 control. Maybe they migrated to Sweden

Hi Paul,

" ..... Maybe they migrated to Sweden."

Yes, people should practise what they preach.

Live in hope.

Joe

Hi Joe and Paul

Poor Swedes.

Indeed compared to other Scandi/Nordic countries Sweden's hands-off Covid-lite strategy has yielded vastly worse death rates.

"Sweden's COVID-19 death toll per capita is more than 10 times Norway's and nearly five times that of Denmark." More at http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-28/sweden-paid-too-high-a-price-with-its-rogue-coronavirus-policy/12922932

_______________________

ON TRUMPSTERS AND COVID STRATEGY

You would have noticed without Trump sporting his medical genius views Trump's-Covid-Followers having been quieter.

Only an extreme anti-goverment crusade (in US then Aus) like "me and my family will never be vaccinated by the Biden Dictatorship against Covid" might give them a false cause.

Stay tuned after Australia Day on "Biden's Vaccine Holocaust"...

P.S.

Yes I'm also hoping Foxy's OK - maybe Christmas-school holiday minding?

I hope nothing worse.

maybe Christmas-school holiday minding?
plantagenet,
Pity, you lot aren't engaged in Christmas-school holiday minding !

Paul1405 is promoting what he considers 'the evil of Brenton Tarrant' and is relating it to other ostensively "Extreme Right" situations as viewed through his ostensively "Extreme Left" lense.

Well given that Paul1405 brought it up lets analyse Brenton Tarrant and what he believes what he did and in what context- and in comparison to other historical context. Further we should analyse whether this justifies the JTTF actions and others comparison's to the Albury arrest as being related to Brenton Tarrant.

The JTTF are police officers and are subject to the laws- whether these laws are illegal laws or not- see mandate of the people and other historical context in regards to law.


Brenton Tarrant appears to have made some points which could be considered valid in his writings independent of any justification of his actions- which should be analysed on their own merit or lack of it.

Brenton Tarrant's writings appear to indicate that he is concerned with global political trends and how they disadvantage his broad ethnic group.

He seems to indicate that he (and perhaps we) are in "a war" with certain forces- he seemed to be a relatively functional person prior to the New Zealand incident- he appears to have read widely on history and philosophy.

If his justification for his actions is because he is at war- under what circumstances is war just- John Locke 1600's believed that law (and war) should be left to the state- but what if the state is criminal by some measure- is it then valid to fight against the state and to ignore the law. Is it ok to do objectively criminal acts when demanded by the law- one example of this complexity is embodied in Breaker Morant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaker_Morant

I can see reasons on both sides for the conduct in the situation of "Breaker Morant"- whether they were justified depends on the moral framework applied- this is an example of moral relativism.

These situations prompt us to ask "What really is law in a broad sense? How does contemporary law differ from traditional law, etc, etc,...".

So in contradiction to Paul1405's title of this thread "Far Right Extremism 'in Australia'" Brenton Tarrant appears to view circumstances as a multinational and perhaps a global threat- and his actions as a reaction to this threat- and not merely an Australian or a New Zealand one.

Paul1405 misrepresents Brenton Tarrant perhaps for his own selfish interests- perhaps that's what Brenton Tarrant was sort of trying to say- everyone needs to fight for their own self interest- he fought for his own selfish interests too.

On that at least I can agree with both of them...

If we can all keep our hands off stuff in others buckets- whether this is the bucket owned by the individual, the family, the community, the culture, the anthropocentric or the animal world- then perhaps we can live in peace.

Generally my view is that violence is a last resort- but some will seek out reasonable people- see reason as a weakness- and exploit it. No one will protect you but yourself- evil laws can be created to subvert this natural right- every level of the hierarchy needs a shield and a sword- to survive.

The left see every war as a racist war- look at how they treated the Vietnam veteran's.

It's not surprising that the left and the "Economic 'Liberal Party'" want to intimidate the traditional right. At some stage the "Economic 'Liberal Party'" will realise that multiculturalism isn't in their interest either- as their dreams of 'Global Business Royalty' evaporate.

The movie "Who Dares Wins" talks of the 80's when 42 embassies were held hostage by communist groups as I understand- not to include state based terrorism in Russia and China and elsewhere. Communism has been much more effective as a subversive force than Nazism was. The history of the world is the history of ethnic conflict- the last hundred years have just changed the nature of the conflict.

Every culture needs their own nation

CM,

Sorry, can't see Paul's reference to that racist mongrel.

As for 'self-interest', how can it be in the interests of any decent human being to murder fifty one innocent people ? i.e. people who haven't committed any crime ? Except, in your view, believed in the wrong ideologies ? Which, last I heard, wasn't a crime ?

So your justification of his vile offences doesn't really stand up. But I don't suppose that would worry you.

Joe

Loudmouth said-

"CM, Sorry, can't see Paul's reference to that racist mongrel.

As for 'self-interest', how can it be in the interests of any decent human being to murder fifty one innocent people ? i.e. people who haven't committed any crime ? Except, in your view, believed in the wrong ideologies ? Which, last I heard, wasn't a crime ?

So your justification of his vile offences doesn't really stand up. But I don't suppose that would worry you. Joe"

Answer-

I'm not actually justifying anything- just trying to understand it.

Question-

how can it be in the interests of any decent human being to murder fifty one innocent people ? i.e. people who haven't committed any crime

Answer-

I don't know enough about this situation to understand it- but I believe we need to understand this situation holistically.

Hypothetically- if Brenton Tarrant sees the people of the mosque as being complicit in harm against hundreds of millions of his people- or they benefited by an injustice against his people- and hence might not have been completely innocent in a sense- this has been used as an excuse to go to war in the past. Sounds like a bit of a stretch perhaps. Perhaps these things also occurred in Northern Ireland. I understand that the authorities want to enforce standards of behavior and rule of law within our communities for their own reasons- and sometimes they do correlate with our interests- sometimes they need to do this aggressively.

Mao said war is an extension of politics.

Brenton Tarrant perhaps believes that the communities existential interest has been undermined by special interests and so they are unable to obtain redress by political and civil means- so perhaps believes the solution is 'by extension of politics'.

Quote "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

Quoting yourself there are many "vile offenses" in the world on all sides as well as their "justification". My first instinct is to try to understand them- but in the end we are different at the different levels of society- despite those that say we have the same needs- we need to respect their rights to self determination and non- molestation- at some level perspicacity is subjective and existential and based on tradition- cultural relativism- something that those on your side want to destroy. I have to admit that broad Liberalism has broad strategic advantages over traditionalism but that doesn't mean that it is right.
Maybe our future is as Orwell surmised 'to have the boot of the world on our heads forever'.

CM,

"Every culture needs their own nation"

What a stupid, stupid notion.

Of course, it depends how you define 'culture':

* at a sort of macro-level - all European or Chinese or Japanese or African culture as wholes, - or

* at the other extreme, the hundred cultures of China, thousands of cultures (and languages) across Africa, the thousands across India, the hundred or so just in Vietnam, etc. - or

* something in-between, which would be more sensible, if still a bit difficult to bring about.

So, you think that, with 200 or so now, there aren't enough separate nations across the world already ? You're advocating many times more ?

So how the dream-land Texas secession bid going, to set up its own white nation ? Any threats from real-world Mexico to take it back ?

Joe

So I guess Loudmouth doesn't support the principles outlined in the US Declaration Of Independence- I consider it as somewhat of a compromise myself. Government of the people, by the people, for the people... In a sense monarchy sort of fulfills these aims.

Doesn't mean that nations can't be clustered into "super-sets" and "super-super-sets"- for example Texas succession with preferred nation relationships. In many cases perhaps more autonomy and better control across borders would be enough to satisfy the culture.

I'm quite concerned that people feel vulnerable to arbitrary whims of authority that aren't part of their culture.

CM,

So what do you mean by 'the culture' or 'their culture' ?

I was just looking at something about Brazil - do you realise that there are hundreds of Indigenous 'cultures' across Brazil (it's a bigger country than all of Australia) ? And, of course, the long-term German-Brazilian culture, mainly in the south ? And the Afro-Brasilian culture in the north-east ?

Joe

In the world there are the molestered and the molestees- I prefer less molestering. I don't understand Brazil I wouldn't presume to tell them how they should manage their culture and the interactions with other cultures but I believe in the general principle of self determination for any culture. So in the case of the 100's of cultures in Brazil I would like to see them given the choice.

....European or Chinese or Japanese or African culture as wholes ...
loudmouth2,
CM did say "every culture". Also, since when is Islam a race ?

always at the ready to slander the Aboriginal cause.
Paul1405,
That's interesting ! Give me an example please just one will do if you can find one.
Which Aboriginals btw ?

Interesting to see how some ponders TARRANT Legitimacy.

Individual,

As usual, way off the point. Who ever mentioned 'race' ?

Nation is not culture. Culture is not race. Race is not religion. Religion is not language.

Just thought I'd clear all that up for you :)

Joe

But I'll clear up a point for Loudmouth perhaps- races do have cultures and sub-cultures- so they can in some cases perhaps be synonymous.

Posted by plantagenet-

"Interesting to see how some ponders TARRANT Legitimacy."

Answer-

Paul1405 brought it up- I said that I don't know- but I would like to understand more as it seems to be something of concern.

Do you have something useful and constructive to contribute to the discussion?

Some things can appear valid or invalid but it's important to understand 'why'- unless you are just interested in the propaganda opportunity- you are trying to use peoples prejudices to influence a policy that you desire.

If you understand why it's possible to prevent it in the future

Hi Canem Malum

I've contributed a large amount to the discussion already.

Just click on http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9336&page=0 to view the whole thread

then Control + F and put in planta.

Merry Christma

As usual, way off the point.
loudmouth2,
not to someone brought up with culture !

Thats indi in the EyeGor outfit http://youtu.be/RyU99BCNRuU .

CM, other than stating the facts, re; Tarrant murdered 51 innocent people I made no other reference to Tarrant, you seem to object to the word "innocent". My primary concern is far right extremism in Australia. I did draw on the Christchurch Inquiry as a reference to the failure of NZ authority, and by extrapolation Australian authority, to correctly identify and pre-empt far right extremism.

You try to present yourself as the intelligent one who only seeks to understand, and by some strange coincidence at the same time you find justification for the actions of far right extremists, a true bit of "Goebbelism" on your part. As for your pretence that you are a neutral bystander simply seeking to understand... total rot... you are as committed to the cause as anyone else on this forum. You previously referred to me as a Communist, hope you do not object when I refer to you as a Nazi. BTW, I'm not a Communist, but see myself as a progressive socialists, maybe you see yourself as something other than a Nazi.

Onya CM.

Thanks for exposing yourself.

Cheers

Paul1405,
For someone who highlights the heinous Nazis, you're quite good at impersonating them in your rhetoric ! Your racism & other hatreds really shine through it all !

Hiya indi

You can talk matey.

Here's you, the blond SS guy http://youtu.be/1zY1orxW8Aw?t=1m12s

Have a good Christmas OLOsters.

plantagenet,
You have a very disturbing sense of humour trying to vindicate Paul1405 et al (yourself included) via such racist rubbish !
I trust you got yourself a simple board game to pass the Xmas lock-down !

Sowy (not) indi

For being "racist" to your fellow Nazis.

..being "racist" to your fellow Nazis.

plantagenet,
Don't be, I'm not a socialist !

Hitler was member of the National Socialist Party.

I’ve heard the Prime minister say that ASIO has stopped 15 Islamist planned attacks from happening in Australia.
I remember the big 100 years Anzac celebration I was at in Canberra. We were sitting in the cafe near the shrine,
when four people in dark suits and guns plainly visible under their coats entered the cafe through an unused back door.

The stood there plainly looking all over the cafe. I heard on the news a few weeks later, that ASIO had stopped a plot by
some Islamists who had planned to strap a bomb to a dog and send it into the crowd.

There was also the Muslim staff who hid explosives in a fridge on a plane. ASIO stopped that plane being blown up as well.

There was a plot to attack Army bases, which ASIO also discovered.

Add that to the Lindt cafe, a couple at least-drive up on the footpath, or plough into the crowd attacks,plus 3-4 lone knifings
There have been quite a lot of left wing extremist attacks. There could have been a plane with a few hundred on board killed.
and many if they had succeeded in sending that dog into the big Anzac Day crowd. Plus the left wing(fascist) Muslims kill thousands of people
every year around the world, by setting off bombs.

CHERFUL, your point is? You like many others fall into the trap of believing the actions of one group of extremists, in this case Islamic extremism is countered by the actions of another group of extremists, commonly known as the far right. Running a tally sheet or a score card serves no purpose, its not like a game of football, where you simply try to out score those you oppose, and if you do, then at the end of the day you have a victory. Australia like other western countries needs to not only guard against Islamic terrorism, which is real and extremely dangerous, but must also be vigilant against all other forms of terrorism. It would be stupid and naive of us to think that in someway the actions of the far right extremist is going to benefit us, it is not.

BTW, if you check the numbers, Islamic terrorists kill far more Muslims in the Middle East than westerners in Europe and elsewhere, making them a danger to all.

Cheerful,
Paul has not included the religious honor murders in his tally. I wonder how many right Wing political murders Paul can identify happening in Australia.

Paul1405,
What about those socio-economic terrorists in the ranks of bureaucracy plying their insidious trade within Democracy ?

Indy, I deputise you in the name of the Lord Jesus! Now boy, skedaddle off and arrest those varmints and drag em' down to the kalaboso where we'll dish em' out some good old fashioned rawhide justice!

Indy,

Peace and joy to you and your folks for the festive season, and all the best for 2021.

Proud Boy Jose'

I hope the Dangerous Doctor Donald, will pardon you for your past, present and future sins, he thinks he has such power. At the moment he's pardoning low life's and criminal murdering scumbags mates, thinking of pardoning family members, and maybe even himself, all awhile playing god with the lives of those convicted of other crimes.

Anything to say about William Barr, Trump's AG and one of his most loyal supporters. Barr made the mistake of putting duty above Trump, not finding any election fraud, a fatal mistake in the eyes of this grubby president.

Based on Graham's hierarchy of disagreement I would say the Paul1405 is using DH0 or DH1- I guess it shows his level. ;)

Thanks for explaining how you view the world Paul1405.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_disagreement

http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

DH0. Name-calling.

This is the lowest form of disagreement, and probably also the most common. We've all seen comments like this:

u r a fag!

But it's important to realize that more articulate name-calling has just as little weight. A comment like

The author is a self-important dilettante.

is really nothing more than a pretentious version of "u r a fag."

DH1. Ad Hominem.

An ad hominem attack is not quite as weak as mere name-calling. It might actually carry some weight. For example, if a senator wrote an article saying senators' salaries should be increased, one could respond:

Of course he would say that. He's a senator.

This wouldn't refute the author's argument, but it may at least be relevant to the case. It's still a very weak form of disagreement, though. If there's something wrong with the senator's argument, you should say what it is; and if there isn't, what difference does it make that he's a senator?

Saying that an author lacks the authority to write about a topic is a variant of ad hominem—and a particularly useless sort, because good ideas often come from outsiders. The question is whether the author is correct or not. If his lack of authority caused him to make mistakes, point those out. And if it didn't, it's not a problem.

CM, are you apologising for calling me a Communist. Could have done it with far less cut and paste. Apology accepted if that's what you're doing.

Paul1405,
So, in your thinking it is ok not to discipline those mainly Labor supporting bureaudoids who cause the waste of so much of our Tax Dollars ?
Are you one of them ?

Indy is back into the fray, its your scumbag lying Liberal politicians with their sports rorts affairs and jet setting around the planet at taxpayer expense etc. The cashed up bloated old pensioners with their snouts in the trough, who are the real wasters. People you support.

Paul1405,
Well, I feel it morally much better to support those who contribute rather than the likes of you who just force others to give !

Good answer Individual. Kudos.

Look Indy, praise from an extremists! Unfortunately such praise is no praise at all.

FROM GUN "HAPPY" TO BOMB "HAPPY" US of A?

Details of the A.Q. Warner committed Nashville Tennessee, Christmas Day (25/12/2020) BOMBING are emerging. No motive has been identified.

May be motivation identification is too hot a potato that could be politically conflated by Trump - while Trump is still POTUS until 20 January 2021.
______________________________________

CNN Reports 27 Dec 2020 http://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/27/us/nashville-explosion-what-we-know/index.html

"Authorities have identified...Warner as the Nashville bomber after matching his DNA to remains found at the scene of the explosion."

""We've come to the conclusion that an individual named...Warner is the bomber. He was present when the bomb went off and then he perished," said Don Cochran, US attorney for the Middle District of Tennessee, during a Sunday evening news conference.

DNA taken from the scene was matched to Warner by forensic analysts, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Director David Rausch said at the news conference.

Warner, 63, of nearby Antioch, Tennessee, had already been identified as a person of interest in the explosion of a recreational vehicle in downtown Nashville on Christmas morning.

The violence of the explosion was captured in a Nashville police surveillance video posted to Twitter Sunday night. The blast damaged dozens of buildings, injured three people and knocked out AT&T wireless service in and around Nashville.

There is no indication that anybody else was involved and no motive has been determined, said Douglas Korneski, FBI special agent in charge of the Memphis field office.

[much more detail]...Warner was issued an explosive user permits handler license in November 2013 that expired in November 2016, public records show."

IMAGE OF WARNER http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/201227205506-anthony-quinn-warner-medium-plus-169.jpg

SEE WHOLE LONG ARTICLE AT http://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/27/us/nashville-explosion-what-we-know/index.html

He's the RIGHT kinda guy some on the Forum would support! Did his 'Xmas Bon-Bon' go wrong?

Quite a sad, Christmas activity for W.

Also for the 3 he injured on THEIR Christmas Day.

NON-EXTREME NEW YEAR’s CAROL

Alfred, Lord Tennyson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred,_Lord_Tennyson Britain’s Poet Laureate (1850-1892) wrote more than "The Charge of the Light Brigade" (1854).

Prolific Tennyson also wrote an earlier poem "Ring Out, Wild Bells" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_Out,_Wild_Bells (published 1850). Now days it rings out the old year and rings in the new, on New Year's Eve.

The words http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_Out,_Wild_Bells#The_poem have deep meaning.

Also bringing the poem to life is a sad and moving musical version by Canadian singer Alana Levandoski http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alana_Levandoski.

Alana sings it here http://youtu.be/dbnsIydaYYg .

The sad tone has special poignancy for a year of bushfires here and COVID everywhere.

Ring out, wild bells, to the wild sky,
The flying cloud, the frosty light:
The year is dying in the night;
Ring out, wild bells, and let him die.

Ring out the old, ring in the new,
Ring, happy bells, across the snow:
The year is going, let him go;
Ring out the false, ring in the true.

Ring out the grief that saps the mind
For those that here we see no more;
Ring out the feud of rich and poor,
Ring in redress to all mankind.

Ring out a slowly dying cause,
And ancient forms of party strife;
Ring in the nobler modes of life,
With sweeter manners, purer laws.

First Verse/Chorus

Ring out the want, the care, the sin,
The faithless coldness of the times;
Ring out, ring out my mournful rhymes
But ring the fuller minstrel in.

Ring out false pride in place and blood,
The civic slander and the spite;
Ring in the love of truth and right,
Ring in the common love of good.

First Verse/Chorus

Ring out old shapes of foul disease;
Ring out the narrowing lust of gold;
Ring out the thousand wars of old,
Ring in the thousand years of peace.

Ring in the valiant man and free,
The larger heart, the kindlier hand;
Ring out the darkness of the land,
Ring in the Christ that is to be.

First Verse/Chorus
______________________________

Have a much happier 2021 everyone.

Pete

INQUIRY INTO EXTREMIST MOVEMENTS AND RADICALISM IN AUSTRALIA

see http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Intelligence_and_Security/ExtremistMovements [as at 14 January 2021]

"The Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security (PJCIS) has commenced an Inquiry into extremist movements and radicalism in Australia with terms of reference from the Minister for Home Affairs.

The requested reporting date from the Minister is April 2021.

Making a Submission

The Committee invites written submissions addressing any or all aspects of the inquiry. Prospective submitters are advised that

ANY SUBMISSION TO THE INQUIRY MUST BE PREPARED SOLELY FOR THIS PURPOSE AND SHOULD NOT BE PUBLISHED PRIOR TO BEING ACCEPTED BY THE COMMITTEE.

Submissions are requested by Friday, 12 February 2021.

See Hyperlinks for:

Terms of Reference
Media Releases
Additional Documents
Government Response
Committee Membership
Committee home page
Track Inquiry

Inquiry Status

FROM IMMEDIATELY ABOVE

[INQUIRY] TERMS OF REFERENCE

See http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Intelligence_and_Security/ExtremistMovements/Terms_of_Reference as at 14 January 2021

...matters relating to extremist movements and radicalism in Australia...

1) the nature and extent of, and threat posed by, extremist movements and persons holding extremist views in Australia, with a particular focus on:

a) the motivations, objectives and capacity for violence of extremist groups including, but not limited to, lslamist and far right-wing extremist groups, and how these have changed during the COVID-19 pandemic; and

b) the risk to the community of high risk terrorist offenders;

2) the geographic spread of these extremist movements and persons in Australia, and their links to international extremist organisations;

3) without limiting the other matters that the Committee may consider, issues for specific inquiry are:

a) changes that could be made to the Commonwealth's terrorist organisation listing laws to ensure they are fit for purpose, address current and emerging terrorist threats, reflect international best practice, and provide a barrier to those who may seek to promote an extremist ideology in Australia;

b) changes that could be made to Australia's Counter-Terrorism Strategy in relation to preventing radicalisation to extremist views, including the capacity for further partnership approaches with state, territory and local governments;

c) the role and influence of radical and extremist groups, which currently fall short of the legislative threshold for proscription, in fostering disharmony in Australia and as a conduit to persons on a pathway to extremism;

d) further steps that the Commonwealth could take to disrupt and deter hate speech and establish thresholds to regulate the use of symbols and insignia associated with terrorism and extremism, including online, giving consideration to the experience of other countries;

e) further steps the Commonwealth could take to reinforce social cohesion, counter violent extremism and address the growing diversification of extremist ideology in Australia;

f) the role of social media, encrypted communications platforms and the dark web in allowing extremists to communicate and organise; and

g) any other matters related to these terms of reference, noting the roles and responsibilities of states and territories in Australia's counter-terrorism arrangements, and constitutional limitations..."