You seem to have some cognitive dissonance going on here. You admit that that Paul and I are factually right but still try to justify denying it. Curious that is. But getting away from facts and into opinions. You and I definitely have different opinions on what makes a civilized society.

For me:
A civilized society in one where the government respects the rights and property of its citizens and doesn't make any demands* on them unless necessary for the sake of security, wealth, health, etc. But whenever it does make demands, as far as reasonable, it treats all its citizens the same. Also the government needs to be capable of beign held accountable to its people- so, its needs to be able to be sued by citizens (ie: an independent judiciary) and be removed by citizens (ie: it needs to have some sort of democracy).
In a civilized society its able bodied and mentally fit adult citizens acknowledge that it is their responsibility to take care for themselves and their children. Its citizens agree not to infringe on the rights and enjoyments of others. Although for those who can't provide for themselves (for example due to health issues) the government should assist them and its citizens may in addition voluntarily contribute over and above the government's actions. Such charity from its citizens should generally be regarded as a "good thing" and actively acknowledged/encouraged but while it can be anticipated it should not expected and relied on.

Under this working definition the old age pension fails on multiple fronts.

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-- from above --

[*: To be clear when I say "demand" here I mean an obligatory action that the government mandates that someone must take. This is different from requiring that a person do something appropriately related in exchange for the government doing something for them.
Eg: 1) a law stating that we should drive on the left is a demand. It is also justifiable since it makes the roads safer and without such a law chaos would reign and the economy would die.
Eg: 2) an obligatory national service scheme for youth (a hobby-horse of yours) is a demand. Is not justifiable because it achieves basically nothing while costing both the participants in terms of time, lost opportunity/potential income and the government in terms of money. In addition because it runs counter to the notion that the government treat people equally in its demands.
EG: 3) Requiring that someone on unemployment benefits make themselves more employable (such as by undertaking an employment focused skills course) isn't a demand since it is not obligatory. All that happens if the person doesn't comply is that the government doesn't pay them. ]

Paul1405: Another ripper post from you above, the 'Shady Pines Retirment Village' one. A good laugh! While you and I have differing opinions on many matters I really do like your posts. Keep up the great work!

From figures I have seen recently, the single age pension is about a quarter of the average wage, & somewhat less foe one of a couple.

This does not appear to be excessive for folk who have paid taxes use to develop the countries infrastructure our younger generations depend on today.

Perhaps it would be more equatable if the pension was paid pro-rota to years of tax paid. Thus those who arrived late in life, those who spent years overseas, or dropped out of the workforce for any reason, would be paid a percentage of the pension, depending on years of tax paid.

Bleeding hearts & horticulturalists may now attack.

Hasbeen,

If the Chinese invade and take us over the only aged pension we will be getting is a bullet to head.

Indy, if what you say is true, why isn't the Aged Pension universal? You have your head in the sand for good reason. The fact is aged pensioners are not a homogeneous group, at one end of the scale are the well-to-do pensioners, living in their owned, often oversized home worth $2 million or more, these folks having large cash reserves and assets up to $385k for a couple. Then at the other end are the battlers, renting, no cash or assets to speak of, doing it tough!

You once whinged on the Forum, that the recent pension rise was an insult, it wasn't enough to buy you an extra schooner down at gods waiting room! I assume you are in the well-to-do aged pensioner category. Down at the GWR Club one can see rows of pensioners feeding the one arm bandits everyday of the week. That's after they have enjoyed a discount lunch and a half dozen schooners, complements of the taxpayer.

If I was a young taxpayer today I wouldn't be holding my breath expecting an aged pension in 50 years from now at the same level of la grasse that YOU enjoy today, if they do receive a pension at all then, which is highly unlikely.