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The Forum > General Discussion > Slavery in Australia

Slavery in Australia

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This is not something from Alabama USA, no it happened right here in Australia right up until fifty years ago, the exploitation of black people by whites. As many as 10,000 indigenous "workers" in Western Australia had their wages taken as part of a labour scheme operated under the Native Administration Act 1936 and Native Welfare Act 1963. A class action is being undertaken to right this grievous wrong done to indigenous Australians. The Western Australian government has indicated it will look to settle the matter outside court,

The Queensland government last year settled a class action relating to similar unpaid entitlements for $190m after a three-year battle. More than 30,000 claimants ultimately came forward. We cannot change the past, although many try to bury it with an out of sight, out of mind attitude, but there can be no proper reconciliation between the first Australians and the decedents of the new European arrivals until these kinds of injustices are resolved.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 25 October 2020 6:55:32 AM
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Yawn. This one gets dragged out regularly by people who have run out of things to whinge and bitch about. Things have changed in 50 years, and "slaves" are not paid wages in the first place.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 25 October 2020 1:37:42 PM
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Paul1405,

I bet there are a lot of dishonest and untrustworthy politicians, bureaucrats and business people who had been hoping that the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history had given rise to historical amnesia about such subjects.

Just when they think they have got all the taxpayers' cash from Soot and the boys neatly stuffed into their pockets along comes something like this to upset their little nesteggs.

But is this a Black-White issue anymore or a Black-Asian issue given that Australia is now an Asian nation-state?

Maybe we should refer to matter to the real decision-makers in Beijing.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 25 October 2020 2:09:42 PM
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Dear Paul,

We think that we know all about Australia's heroes
(and villains). We need to think again. I got quite
a shock reading about the life of Vincent Lingiari
And I guess the battles he inspired live on.

His is a reminder of time a poor stockman led a couple
of hundred folk off their worksite, and stared down
millionaires and ministers until they gave in. The man knew
where he stood and as Paul Kelly's song tell us -
"From Little Things Big things Grow!"

Lets hope that the same will apply here.

Thanks for raising this discussion.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 25 October 2020 2:14:49 PM
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Hi Foxy

Other than ttbn who will forget Vincent Lingiari. As I said many try to bury it with an out of sight, out of mind attitude, here we have a prime example. People like ttbn think if you pay a black fella a penny a day you're paying him too much.

Good song about Vincent Lingiari.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ndC07C2qw&ab_channel=JimmyJones
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 25 October 2020 3:35:08 PM
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In my own lifetime I have witnessed such exploitation of indigenous by their own people. PNG people were particularly common 'slaves' on the Far Nth Qld islands.
By the time I arrived in the late 70's, non-indigenous no longer used indigenous as the work ethics of the indigenous made them not viable to have around anymore.
it is recorded that a Railway gang consisting entirely of Torres Strait Islanders held & perhaps still holds the record for laying the longest stretch of railway line in a day.
There's even a film made in the 50's on that feat.
What was not stated in any of the records is that, these 'Islanders' weren't totally indigenous, they were descendants of South Pacific Pearling & Trochus Shell industry workers whose forefathers were brought here on occasions by Blackbirders but mostly as work Visa workers.
Many were treated badly as were many white workers. The Native Police Units are well recorded regarding their doings.
People nowadays make a huge issue of injustice out of Mainland Station Indigenous workers not having received payment hence the term "Stolen wages". These workers received food & commodities & shelter in return for their services. Only an insipid Academic would bring up the subject of no money being paid ! Were one to ask one of these Pseudo-intellectuals as to where & how the indigenous could have used money in the Bush would make an interesting answer !
The early days after the invasion of the colonisers were tough times indeed & frustration & desperation was the order of the day. The results were always harsh & in many cases unjustified !
Those who are now wallowing in the comfort of a safe society with welfare & no responsibility should reflect every now & then on the realities of the past instead of cashing in on the out-of-hand stories selectively recorded.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 25 October 2020 4:20:08 PM
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Paul,

Again and again, in the mission and protector reports (check out my web-site: www.firstsources.info ), it was assumed that people would get rations when they were not working. But ...

One universal problem was that the men might go away, say, to work on the shearing, but that the station owner might pay them in cash directly - and meanwhile, the mission/settlement was providing their families with rations. Double pay, oh frabjous day ! The missions often complained that this allowed the men to blow all of their pay on grog while their families would still be supported regardless.

Rev. Taplin at Pt McLeay came to an agreement early on with station owners to send the cheques directly to him, so that

(a) he could deduct the cost of rations from the men's wages and pay them the balance; and

(b) discourage drinking.

The missions in Victoria urged this policy in the 1872 Royal Commission (web-site, Victoria page).

Is it possible that much of the supposed 'stolen wages' were, in fact, reimbursement for missions for the supply of rations to families ? And did stations up in the north similarly provide rations as well as very basic accommodation, not just for their workers but for their families as well ?

I would love to see the account books of a mission around, say, Derby, or Daly River, or Doomadgee, during the pastoral period before welfare payments, to see if there were regular reimbursements from stations which the missions used to set against the cost of rations, and then give the balance of wages to the working men.

But the men and their families would not understand the process as equitable and efficient in any way, and always believed they have been robbed of wages, passing that 'true story' down through the ages.

Of course, what happens these days ? If nobody in a family is working, okay, they get so much welfare payments. If someone IS working, and declares it, then the family will most likely get reduced welfare payments, if anything. Same-same.

Move on.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 25 October 2020 5:31:50 PM
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Hi Joe,

This claim makes specific reference to the Western Australian Native Administration Act 1936, and Native Welfare Act 1963. Do you have any information as to exploitation of indigenous people in WA as a direct result of those particular acts of parliament. Its been well documented that Aboriginal people working as stockmen, station hands, domestic servants etc were exploited and often pain in kind, or not paid, or poorly paid for their work.

If the good reverend was deducting payment for rations, was that deduction at a discount as were the wages? We don't really know do we. Maybe the good reverend was charging a pound for a pound of flour, when wages were doled out at five bob a week.

Exploitation of indigenous workers is nothing new, its been the practice since the days of the slave trade. The wife tells me her first job in a shoe factory in Auckland, she was paid a pound a week less than a European girl the same age, doing the same job. In those days Maori people expected to be paid less for their labour. Her father would not allow her to stay in the big city over the weekend, she and her sister lived there with relatives, too many dangerous people for young girls he said. Te and her sister had to get the train home up north on Friday afternoon, and return to Auckland Sunday arvo, for work Monday, very moral people.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 25 October 2020 6:25:53 PM
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In remote communities in Australia, most non-resident staff get paid locality allowance including indigenous. No difference is made for anyone by ethnicity ! I recall some locals striking for a day because they thoght they should receive the same pay as the outsiders. When I explained to them that if they chose to work in another community, away from home, they too will receive this allowance.
No, that's not fair to have to work away from home was the reply but still, they wanted the same as the non-locals ! The stolen wages gained momentum by similar claims of 'hard work' for less pay ! The fact that all schooling & school holiday travel, health services, low rent etc. etc. was provided never entered the equation.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 25 October 2020 7:58:48 PM
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Paul,

Perhaps you can answer that question yourself, with evidence, not just hearsay generations later:

"Do you have any information as to exploitation of indigenous people in WA as a direct result of those particular acts of parliament ?"

And we could well do without the paranoia.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 25 October 2020 9:11:32 PM
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Some of those "slaves" did OK on Oz.

A mate of mine flew Meteor jet fighters in Korea. I had a holiday with him once on the family property in the back blocks of the Clarence river, where I met his father. He was blackbirded from the Solomons, repatriated, & then volunteered to come again. He preferred life in Oz.

When I was sailing around the area the mate flew into Gizo airport, the nearest airport to where we think his father came from. His father wasn't sure of the English name of his small home island, & had never been interested enough to bother finding out.

The mate reckoned his father must have been crazy to want to leave such a beautiful area, but I think the Solomons were a much better place for the locals to live in 1976 than they had been in the early 1900s.
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 25 October 2020 11:34:26 PM
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I've become a slave to The Forum Online Opinion.

Does that count?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 26 October 2020 6:51:00 AM
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Hi Joe,

I expect the forums 'Usual Suspects' to minimise the wrongs committed in the past against Aboriginal people, they always do. The accounts of I had a mate, who had a mate, who was a black fella, and gee how well off darkie was, etc, etc. That's fine deflection from the general truth. As in Queensland, the Western Australian government is recognising wrongs of the past, without defence, specifically those related to the Native Administration Act 1936, and the Native Welfare Act 1963. According to the law firm acting in this class action; "Under these discriminatory laws, Indigenous Australians were not only separated from their families but forced to work for little or no money, locking them into a vicious cycle of poverty and disadvantage." If there is "nothing to see here" in this matter, then is not the WA government derelict in its duty to WA taxpayers not to oppose this claim.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 26 October 2020 8:09:14 AM
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Thanks Paul, for highlighting in that post, the uselessness of even talking to a green.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 26 October 2020 9:40:57 AM
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Squadron Leader West (aka Hasbeen nee Phil),

I take it you're a modern day slave shackled to his imagination.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 26 October 2020 9:44:32 AM
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I put my wonderment at why people even respond to Paul 1405's fake news in his waffle about meritocracy instead of this one. Probably because his posts are all the same: all fake news from a person with a chip the size of a railway sleeper on his shoulder, and constant treacherous thoughts about his country and its people.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 26 October 2020 10:06:14 AM
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ttbn,

I thought that Asianization (aka Australian Multiculturalism) during the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history did away with all that.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 26 October 2020 10:10:26 AM
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Slave is just an emotive term, used here to confuse the ignorant.

Were these 'slaves' owned? Could they be sold to a new 'owner'? Did their children become 'slaves' of the 'owner'? Were they 'owned' for life or until manumission?

No?

Well they weren't slaves. Stop trying to gather sympathy by linking one thing to the t'other.

They were employees. Badly paid employees perhaps and employees who we exploited and misused. But employees none the less. Whatismore its not entirely clear that they were all that badly paid if at all. sure they didn't receive cash payment but they did receive payment in kind as well as accommodation. .

But that's beside the point. Where-ever one sees a trough one sees piggies anxious to partake. Whether they are entitled to partake no longer matters.
Posted by mhaze, Monday, 26 October 2020 10:33:14 AM
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Paul,

In our legal system, there is the presumption of innocence - in this case, surprisingly, of station owners, missions, governments et al. In other words, if you wish to assert some dreadful wrong, you have to find the evidence - those whom you accuse don't have to do a damn thing.

As the Romans had it - 'Asseritur gratis, negatur gratis': what is asserted freely, can be ignored freely. If you assert something, it's up to you to find evidence, it's not up to the 'defence' to provide the 'prosecution' with the evidence. Anybody can ignore you and tell you to piss off, and take your BS whinge somewhere else.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Monday, 26 October 2020 10:41:47 AM
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Paul1405,
You have provide ample evidence over the years that you don't have the integrity to be impartial !
Posted by individual, Monday, 26 October 2020 11:36:36 AM
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We know who the ignorant person is, mhaze, and Joe has told him to piss off. We live in hope.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 26 October 2020 12:12:39 PM
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Hi once again Joe,

I can't be bothered talking to the redneck racists who invariably come up with the notion that there is "nothing to see here". Like with Queensland, there is no argument from the WA government concerning the validity of the claim, its not contested. The presumption of innocence does not apply for the reason the WA government admits liability brought about by wrongs created by two separate acts of the WA parliament.

As yet no one has addressed my opening post, the matter is not being defended. Is the WA government wrong to seek settlement?

I didn't take offence with your; "Anybody can ignore you and tell you to piss off, and take your BS whinge somewhere else." As I took it to be a general statement that applies only when something is denied in law.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 26 October 2020 1:50:38 PM
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Dear Paul,

I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the legalities
involved in this case. However, if the Queensland
government settled then perhaps they have a chance in WA?

That's why I brought up the Lingiari case - it showed
that sometimes with enough courage and determination you
can win.

I wish them every success. And yes, I know I'll be
described as a "bleeding heart", or worse. But at least
I've got a heart and it beats regularly on all days with the
letter "D" in it. And I don't suck all the energy and
optimism out of everyone on this forum.
(smile).
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 26 October 2020 2:08:13 PM
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Hi Foxy,

For years when anything concerning Aboriginal Australians has been brought up on the Forum, the 'Usual Suspects' have been quick to deny or under score any past wrong doing. They retreat to a position of demanding evidence, or simply bring up some personal anecdotal story of how well off Aboriginal people are/were as a justification for their position. In this specific case two governments have chosen, after advice, to not contest the facts. Does this not indicate that there was substantial injustices committed in the past using the protection of the law.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 26 October 2020 4:08:20 PM
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Paul1405,

It is historically recognised that the British colonial governments tried to exterminate the Australian Aboriginals and that they exterminated the Tasmanians with Truganini being the last member of six Tasmanian cultural groups.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 26 October 2020 4:13:49 PM
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Peter Smith, ecomist and regular contributor to Quadrant, got it right:

"...... it is no longer possible to come together. The modern Left have gone far beyond reach and reason.

They support men in frocks competing against women; they cancel Christians, like Israel Folau, for citing scripture; they have no problem with killing unborn babies, for any reason, right up until the moment of birth; they’re happy for the West to be overrun with refugees; they appease the intolerances and dysfunctionalities of Islam; they have a highly selective take on free speech; they silence opposing views (witness, e.g., CNN, the ABC and the editorial policy of The Conversation); they malign and distort our history and invent malicious fictions, like ‘the stolen generations’; they teach children to take no pride in, but rather to despise, the monumental progress that our Judeo-Christian civilisation has brought to mankind. Quite simply, they represent an evolutionary political development which is entirely wretched."
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 26 October 2020 4:44:36 PM
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Hi Paul,

Here's Peter Smith's article in full. The last paragraph
is especially interesting. Give support and donate now:.
What a rational article. We need to give it all the
consideration it deserves.

http://www.quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2020/10/no-sanity-no-kumbaya-no-quarter/
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 26 October 2020 6:12:02 PM
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the 'Usual Suspects' have been quick to deny or under score any past wrong doing.
Paul1405,
The 'Usual Suspects" look at this with a view of ignoring the pontificating hype that you so desperately require for your racist agenda !
Posted by individual, Monday, 26 October 2020 7:39:38 PM
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Individual,

You lot are really negative people. Therefore we need
you to stay at least a timezone away from the rest of us.
Talk to each other and we hope that your day will be as
pleasant as you all are.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 10:11:10 AM
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We're not negative people, Foxy.

In fact we're positive....positive that people like you and Stalinist Paul are hopelessly wrong on almost all issues.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 10:32:07 AM
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mhaze,

Of course you think that you're positive.
That's your psychological make-up - the
authoritarian personality - a distinctive set of
traits, including conformity, intolerance, and
insecurity. You're submissive to superiors and
bullying to those you consider inferiors. You guys
have anti-intellectual and anti-scientific attitudes
and are highly disturbed by any ambiguity in sexual
or religious matters and you see the world in very
rigid and stereotyped terms. You love labelling
people.

You're generally products of family environments in which
the parents were cold, aloof, disciplinarian and
themselves bigoted.

There's nothing to be gained by further conversation
with any of you. You need what I can't provide -
a lobotomy.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 10:54:21 AM
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Foxy,
why is that whenever you're out of sensible replies you resort to ridicule ? Is it really too hard for you to see the realistic side of everyday life ?
If you can't tell by now that Paul1405 has it in for anyone who is White i.e. those who feed him, than you're blinder than I thought !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 11:35:01 AM
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Dearest Foxy,

One thing I've learnt - the hard way - over fifty-sixty years involved, one way or another, with Indigenous people, is to rely on the truth. But that sometimes means having to stand back, be a bit sceptical of claims and complaints, and if possible find evidence one way or another, for any of those claims and complaints.

I'm not such a mug that I'd believe every counter-claim either, but triangulation of data from different sources, different times, different states, goes a long way.

Hence, one case of proven 'stolen children' in all of Australia, over 200 years (amazing, surely): Bruce Trevorrow, my wife's sort-of-second cousin. Every child taken into care would have a file in their State's archives. Why no class action, in the thousands, by Slater & Gordon, or Maurice Blackburn, etc. ?

Hence, no unambiguous evidence of Aboriginal farming; no native grains worth cultivating; no native animals that could be used as draught animals like cattle or horses of buffalo; no unambiguously farming tools; no farming songs, stories, rituals, legends, even farming words in any Aboriginal language.

Deaths in Custody: a lower rate of deaths in custody than of Indigenous people in custody.

Etc. Etc. He who asserts must demonstrate, or everybody can ignore, laugh at, deride, those assertions as ridiculous.

I'm craving to believe - 'Say not the struggle naught availeth' - in something worthwhile: genuine self-determination, i.e. economic activity, building up communities with the enormous resources that they now have. But I've waited now for fifty years and there still doesn't seem to be much sign of any of that on the horizon. Ah, the magic ingredient: effort.

No: no more bullsh!t. The truth, always.

Once bitten, twice shy. Fifty times bitten, .......

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 11:41:50 AM
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Dear Joe,

I value your opinion and expertise.

And I know your heart is in the right place.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 11:45:58 AM
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Individual,

I don't agree with you on Paul.
And it's clear that we are not equipped to agree
with one another on so many things. There's no
point therefore in continuing to talk. Take care.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 11:50:56 AM
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Hi Foxy,

What can I say about the Peter Smith article, can we expect less from an extremist such as Smith, me thinks not. The man would have plenty of supporters right here on this forum.

In this thread I referred to a a class action in Western Australia by Indigenous people to recover unpaid wages. What is interesting is on advice the claim is not disputed by the WA government, and it relates to two separate acts of parliament that were used to legitimise government theft. How many times have the forums 'Usual Suspects' taken a "nothing to see here" attitude whenever Aboriginal disadvantage is brought up. Not one of the revisionist has attempted to counter my original post. They offer nothing more than abuse and deflection, with the occasional unrelated anecdotal story of "how well off was Darkie"!

Here was the big chance for the lads to tear the Western Australian government to pieces, and the Queensland government as well, but they've all wimped out
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 4:01:38 PM
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Foxy,

You just gave mhaze a sociological tongue lashing and he hasn't got a clue if you were criticizing him or complimenting him.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 4:14:30 PM
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Dear Paul,

I guess we shall always have negative types who
as I keep repeating will suck positivity,
optimism, and energy out of others. I've gotten to
the stage where I seriously have to ask- "Why am
I even bothering to engage with these people?"
The answer is - I shouldn't bother any more.
There are enough people on this forum with whom
I can engage. I'll try to do just that.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 5:10:16 PM
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Mr O,

I have no control over what mhaze has or doesn't have
a clue about. And frankly I don't care.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 5:13:33 PM
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Dear Paul,

Did you happen to watch Q & A last night (26/10/2020)?

The topic was - Accountability, Ethics, and Leadership.

And the panel was comprised of:

Ken Henry - former Treasury Secretary.
Dave Sharma - Liberal member for Wentworth.
Tanya Plibersek - Shadow Minister for education.
Simon Longstaff - Executive Director, The Ethics Centre.
Dani Larkin - lawyer, Uluru Dialogue Leadership Group.

It was a great panel and the topics were great. We got
various perspectives to the questions being asked by people.
Dani Larkin was particularly interesting. She gave an
easy to understand account of what the Uluru Statement from
The Heart was all about. She explained it in simple terms
for the average person. Which I'm sure many people would
have appreciated.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 5:46:20 PM
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Hi Foxy,

Yes I did, one of the best Q & A's for the year, great panel, all five. Dani Larkin brought up a good point, the 'Uluru Statement From
The Heart' was a gift to all Australians, not a list of demands from the Indigenous minority. So many conservative white Australians fear the succession of legitimate rights to our Indigenous brothers and sisters through a voice to parliament will be a sign of weakness on our part, totally unjustified, nothing could be further from the truth.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 October 2020 9:49:54 AM
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Hi Paul,

Yes she explained things so well. And like Tanya Plibersek,
I totally support Dani in what she is trying to achieve.
I think we all should.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 28 October 2020 11:00:28 AM
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Paul1405,

The British government and the mainly British settlers stole Aboriginal land at the point of a gun and attempted to exterminate the Aboriginals because they imagined them and their cultures as inferior to the highly civilized British who considered themselves to be the children of God and by divine providence given dominance of all other humans and living creatures of the planet.

Was the way the British governments and settlers treated the Aboriginals any different to the way the Germans treated Jews the Hitler years?

It would be interesting to see if anyone has written any comparative histories on this question.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 28 October 2020 11:19:20 AM
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The British government and the mainly British settlers stole Aboriginal
Mr Opinion,
Yes, & their descendants & those such as yourself who enjoy a safe life here live on that land.
So do I & I paid for the land I live on & I have also contributed to the compensation to the indigenous including those who didn't get dispossessed !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 28 October 2020 3:32:23 PM
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I have to say that I get so pissecd off with endless myths and lies about Indigenous issues. I was just watching a program about John Moriarty's designs being used on Australian planers a few decades back. A lovely bloke, I knew him and his first wife Rita back in the early seventies. We went to a Buffy Saint-Marie concert together (I think, in November 1972 ?).

But what browned me off was that he was claimed to be a 'stolen child': however, like so many other children - all of the white and 'half-caste' kids in the Top End - from the Northern Territory in 1942, when he was four years old, he was evacuated south, to Sydney (Mulgoa, etc.); others came to to Adelaide (Balaklava, etc.). It took some years after the end of the War for kids to be repatriated back to the Territory. No, they weren't stolen. Another myth.

Sorry.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Wednesday, 28 October 2020 8:54:18 PM
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Dear Joe,

Of course there are many who will abuse any system.
Just as there are many who won't.
You should at least acknowledge the fact that there
were genuine cases of "stolen generations". And
they were not "myths".
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 October 2020 10:46:11 AM
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No, Foxy, i do NOT acknowledge that myth. If anybody has a complaint, they can easily go to their state (or federal) archives, get their file and take it to a lawyer.

Do you think that thousands of people haven't done that already, and got a 'no case' response ?

Do you think that major law firms wouldn't like to mount class actions, @ 10 % of the compensation payments ? Slater & Gordon could do with that financial relief.

Of course, kids were taken into care. Especially, paradoxically, I suspect mainly in the years after the War, when there was plenty of work, therefore plenty of grog, therefore plenty of child neglect. I saw a record of a kid who died of starvation in 1955 at Wellington here in SA: I knew that family very well and still see that child's surviving sisters occasionally.

In fact, on the Pt McLeay Mission/settlement death records, the 1950s were the worst decade since 1860 for infant mortality.

Governments have fiduciary duties, as parent of last resort, in loco parentis, etc., to care for children in their jurisdictions. Many kids were taken into care, usually for only a short time until parents had got their acts together again - six months, a year. Women, until the late sixties actually, had no birth control, so had large families after the War - ten kids was very common; I've heard of eighteen.

And since men were blowing much of their wages on grog, and not very high wages at that, family stress and break-down - especially on the mothers - must have been enormous.

As well, between 1860 and 1960, on that 'Mission', something like thirty women died in childbirth, or from other diseases while still very young (especially TB), leaving about 140 kids motherless in that time. [Imagine how all that sort of crap is still going on in remote 'communities' today]. Usually, grandmothers and aunts took the kids in. I don't know of any Aboriginal kids who were put in S.A.'s largest orphanage, at Goodwood, but there probably were some.

Sorry, dear.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:04:29 AM
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Dear Joe,

I can only go by what I have read and learned and
by the huge oral history collections that I have
personally catalogued at the State Library of
Victoria.

There is plenty of information available to attest
to what happened in the past. However, proving it in
a court of law may be a different story.

Still, you are of course entitled to your views.
And on this we shall have to agree to disagree.
Seeing as we are poles apart on this - it is pointless
to continue this conversation.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:11:30 AM
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LM is correct. There was no stolen generation. There was a separated generation (or two) but they were removed for their own good by well-meaning officials, nurses, doctors and the like.

There are now innumerable cases of people claiming to be stolen based on their own hopes or what they'd been told by parents etc, who have since found out otherwise.

People like Gunner and Cabillo who actually took their cases to court only to find out a series of unpalatable truths. Gunner's mother actually tried to kill him which is why he was removed - his father was white and the half-caste child bought shame on the mother.

Then there are cases like Louise O'Donoghue who originally claimed to be stolen but later, on learning the truth coined the term 'separated' since she had been put into care by her parents.

Thousands of kids were 'separated'. To date only one example of such separation being for reasons other than the welfare of the child has been found....and that separation was held to have been illegal.

But who can blame the kids for wanting to believe that they were ripped out of the arms of loving parents. And who can blame parents for telling fables about having their kids taken when in fact they were usually pleased to have the kids go to a better place.

But a stolen generation is a myth.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 29 October 2020 12:27:41 PM
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There are many who disagree.

The following is just one link on - "The myth of
the Stolen Generations - A Rebuttal", by Peter
Read:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-02-15/37108
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 October 2020 12:37:42 PM
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Evidence, my dear Foxy. Provide evidence. OF COURSE, some people are going to try and put their hands out for 'compensation' but surely it's up to them to provide conclusive evidence of any dreadful offences against them by the State ?

And, for god's sake, WHY ? Why would any government want to take on the responsibilities for raising Aboriginal kids in homes - where ?? - until they're eighteen or twenty one ? Where did this happen ? Who ? For god's sake, get some evidence. Frankly, I'm amazed that it happened only once - in the case of Bruce Trevorrow down at Meningie here in SA. Surely some social workers, etc., would have found some Aboriginal kids just beautiful, captivating, absolutely charming, bright, amazingly gorgeous little darlings ? Because - of course - they can be.

No ? Only the once ? Marj Angus ? Who, by the way, is now buried in the cemetery at Pt McLeay, she really loved those people.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 29 October 2020 1:46:06 PM
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Dear Joe,

I'm trying to be as respectful as possible here but
frankly we have been over this many, many times in
the past. You keep banging on about evidence. All you have
to do is visit your own South Australian Museum - there are
people there who will help you. There's the "Bringing Them
Home Report "which was delivered to parliament on 26th May
1997.

There's so much information that's available now in
Australian Museums and National Libraries - Including
the various government policies of assimilation
that existed where between 1910 and the 1970s many First
Nations children were forcibly removed from their families.

Anyway, as I stated previously - this is a topic that is
pointless to discuss with you. Lets leave it there.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 October 2020 3:00:20 PM
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"There's the "Bringing Them
Home Report "which was delivered to parliament on 26th May
1997."

The thing about the "Bringing Them Home" report was that it wasn't an investigation of the claims. They simply allowed people to make their claims about being stolen and then recorded them. The commissioner specifically said they didn't want to look into the facts behind the claims because it would have been disrespectful and distressing for the claimants.

It was only later that some of the claims were fully investigated (either by the courts of researchers) and found to be factually lacking in all cases other than Bruce Trevorrow.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 29 October 2020 3:46:27 PM
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The thing about the "Bringing Them Home" report?

Fact check tells us that:

" It was a national inquiry that investigated the
forced removal of Indigenous children from their
families. This forcible removal of Indigenous
children was part of assimilation policies adopted
by all Australian governments throughout the 20th
century. Despite the widespread nature of the
practice, mainstream recognition of the experience has
been only relatively recent".

"In 1995 the Australian Government asked the Human Rights
and Equal Opportunity Commission to carry out a national
inquiry into the separation of Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Islander from their families. The inquiry was
established because of the efforts of many Indigenous
communities concerned that the public's ignorance of
forcible removal was hindering the recovery of Stolen
Generations members and their families".

It was set up to:

1) Examine the past laws, practices and policies of forcible
separation of Aboriginal and TSI children from their families
and their effects.

2) Identify what should be done in response, including
any changes in current laws, practices and policies with
a focus on location and re-unifying families.

3) Look at the current laws, policies and practices
affecting the placement and care of Indigenous children.

54 Recommendations were made - most of which were
ignored by the Howard Government.

To set the record straight - the report found that
between 1 in 10, possibly as many as 1 in 3 Indigenous
children were removed from their families and communities
between 1910 and the 1970s. We're told that these children
were taken by the police, from their homes, or on their
way to school and put into institutions, fostered
or adopted out to non-indigenous families.

Many suffered harsh, degrading treatment (including
sexual abuse) and were indoctrinated to believe Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander people were inferior.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 October 2020 5:04:20 PM
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In relation to the class action being undertaken in WA by up to 10,000 claimants. One account;

Ron Harrington-Smith was four when he was forcibly taken from his mother to work at the Mount Margaret mission in the north-eastern Goldfields region.

His duties included chopping and carting wood to missionaries in their houses, marshalling livestock and cleaning soiled toilet pans.

“All of this was barefoot and in squalid conditions,” Harrington-Smith said.

“It’s hard to imagine that we endured all this suffering. It is unfair and appalling, and they have to be found guilty of the facts and pay us back the stolen wages which are owed.”

WA Aboriginal affairs minister, Ben Wyatt, had this to say;

“The government will look to achieve a mediated outcome of any claims made in respect to the stolen wages issues, with an acknowledgement of the impact that HISTORICAL GOVERNMENT POLICIES related to income control have had on Aboriginal people and their families over many years.”

No response to this from any of the forums 'Usual Suspects' who are content to wallow in their racism, and not address the particular issue at hand.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 October 2020 8:13:47 PM
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Paul,

So you have independent sources of evidence for your claims about this bloke's claims ? Gosh, made to work at four years old, what bastards.

Or you are asking us to believe assertions without question ?

That bridge that you are wanting to sell - do you have the papers for it ? What was the price again, that sounded pretty good ?

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 29 October 2020 9:15:46 PM
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Hi Joe,

I'm not trying to sell anything, I found it interesting that the Western Australian government, like the Queensland government before it, was not contesting the facts. The facts being there was recognisable systemic wage abuse of Aboriginal people in WA between 1936 and the 1970's brought about by two acts of parliament. The Forum mob of 'Usual Suspects', who whenever anything is raised about past injustice towards Aboriginal people take the attitude of "nothing to see here", well according to the WA and Queensland governments, there is plenty to see here! As reasonable governments I am of the opinion they would have first ascertained the overall facts of the matter before admitting liability. This case shows that those of you who continually take the "nothing to see here" attitude are wrong.

As for the example of Ron Harrington-Smith, the particular facts if on the balance of probability favour Ron, then compensation is due to Ron, and possibly 10,000 others.

I went to your website, looking for facts concerning those particular act of parliament. and your partisan comment about A. O. Neville being the "bad guy" in the movie 'Rabbit Proof Fence' was unjustified. To me Neville was simply portrayed for what he was. Why did you feel it necessary to place such a sarcastic comment on your site?
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 30 October 2020 8:19:25 AM
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Come off it, Paul, you know very well that governments, particularly Labor governments, would want to sweep all of this Aboriginal history stuff under the nearest carpet, no matter whether there is any truth in it or not. Fund it and piss it off.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 30 October 2020 10:06:09 AM
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EVIDENCE of that claim Joe, EVIDENCE! Is it simply based on the say so of the red necks? Interesting what one see through ones mind's eye, when one chooses to see thing their way.

The red necked racists would want to piss the darkie off and give him nothing. We have a few of them on the Forum.

How about saying something about O. A Neville "the bad guy".
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 30 October 2020 10:32:53 AM
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Not sure how that is all that relevant, Paul. But here goes:

Neville was, for around thirty years, from about 1914 to 1944, one of two full-time employees in the Native Welfare/Indigenous Affairs Department in all of the million square miles of Western Australia, and often was the only full-time employee, travelling from one end of that huge state to the other by cart and ship. He may have been able to employ a part-time clerical assistant in Perth from about the early thirties to help with the accounts.

Neville helped to set up the Coolbaroo Club in Perth, for Aboriginal people who were working in the city around 1948. When Neville died in about 1950, a thousand Aboriginal people attended his funeral.

What else do you want me to say ?

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 30 October 2020 10:42:26 AM
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A.O. Neville, a man of his times. When I watched 'Rabbit Proof Fence' for the first time, with the portrayal of Neville in the movie, that's how the character came across to me. But if you feel others seen him as a "bad guy" maybe that's a bias on your part.

BTW the Queensland Labor government spent three years in negotiating the settlement of claim with Aboriginal people. Three years seems a long time if Labor is as you claim; " (looking) particularly Labor governments, would want to sweep all of this Aboriginal history stuff under the nearest carpet, no matter whether there is any truth in it or not. Fund it and piss it off."
Surely carpet sweeping can been done in a lot less time than three years.

I seriously asked about those WA acts of parliament. Did any Aboriginal Protector or any person with government authority ever refer to those laws to justify the treatment of Aboriginal people? I assume they did.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 30 October 2020 4:06:14 PM
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Paul,

It may need some explanation as to why, when those three little girls got back to Jigalong from Moore River (I think, by following the Meekatharra Road and getting lifts most of the way, often with Rabbit Department workers), why Neville didn't simply wait at the Jigalong end, and take those kids straight back to Moore River, if he was such a bastard.

How come he didn't use the police at all, anywhere along the thousand miles from one place to the other ? Pretty obviously, those kids would have been heading back to Jigalong ? And do you really think that local newspapers wouldn't have contacted, say, The Westralian, to send out correspondents to track the girls ? Surely it would ha ve been a big story ? So how come no references on 'Trove' ?

As it happened, they WERE back at Moore River when they turned eighteen.

I think he had far more on his plate than that single issue.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 30 October 2020 4:31:20 PM
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Surely carpet sweeping can been done in a lot less time than three years.
Paul1405,
It's coming up with the money that takes the time. Around our area some huge farms have been handed back to the indigenous for many millions to the Taxpayers of Qld.
I haven't heard of any of the receiving communities going off welfare & living off the farms as the previous farmers did !
Posted by individual, Friday, 30 October 2020 4:56:23 PM
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Paul,

I wonder if it's just coincidental that, in the same year, 1932 (and in about the same months, September/October) as those three girls are supposed to have fled from Moore River, there was a War against emus in the same region:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War

AND one of Arthur Upfield's first 'Boney' novels was also set in that region, centring on Burracoppin (yes, there is such a place), and focussing on the Rabbit (i.e. Emu) Fence. You can date Upfield's 'Boney' novels fairly well, and lo and behold, the one relating to Burracoppin and the Rabbit fence ('Mr Jelley's Business') starts off in about September 1932.

Busy times !

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Monday, 2 November 2020 10:27:45 AM
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Hi Paul,

A school in NSW is changing the names of its Houses to Aboriginal names.

I don't know about other schools but when I went to Penrith State/Primary School, more than 65 years ago, the Houses all had Aboriginal names - Nardoo, Wandoo, Mulga and Wilga. I think I was in Mulga, the red one anyway.

Plus ca change ....

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 13 November 2020 6:54:27 PM
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Yes, my granddaughter's school has the same thing. Sounds better than the red, blue, green etc.

I knew you were a red from an early age. I'm sorry to hear the Mulga house did poorly in all things at your school, it improved the year after you left.

BTW, what were you doing out in the mulga anyway?
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 14 November 2020 7:01:22 AM
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