The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Break The Darwin Harbour Lease, Among Other Things.

Break The Darwin Harbour Lease, Among Other Things.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 11
  7. 12
  8. 13
  9. All
Liberal Senator, Concetta Fierravanti-Wells, thinks that the security threat from China, and the bellicose threats from the CCP, is reason enough to break the Port of Darwin 99 year lease, and overhaul the foreign 'investment' framework as a whole.

Good call?
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 11:46:54 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It should never have been allowed in the first place.

The question I have been always asking is how long before China invades Australia?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 2:54:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The $506 million the Northern Territory Government
was paid for a 99 year lease of the Darwin Port by
Chinese Company Landbridge is long gone, but Australia's
feelings of unease remain.

The 2015 deal with Landbridge shocked the country and led
to the most asked question in the curious series history
about why the Northern Territory decided to lease the
port to a foreign company and how they got away with it.

What can be done about it now is a good question, more than
3 years after the deal was signed and saw one of Australia's
most strategic assets leased away for a one-time payment.

Is asking - what can be done to reverse the lease now - a
case of too little too late?

Not sure if security reasons make the lease null and void.
And whether the NT will need to return the money?

Something that needs to be debated in Parliament - and all
available options presented.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 3:26:46 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
//Good call?//

Yes, and while we're at it we should get Newcastle Harbour back off them as well. It was and remains a bloody stupid decision to lease it in the first place.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 4:13:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As the Chinese business woman was heard to say in Sydney: "Aren't the Australians dumb!"

Yes lady they sure are.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 4:57:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
yep break the lease and get out of Paris. The Pollies involved in both these deals should be sacked.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 5:12:49 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I agree with all posters. I find it amazing that State governments, and a Territory in the Darwin case, have the power to do such things. Toni raises a less known case, and then there is the Victorian government's involvement in China's Belt and Road plan, which has seen small island countries become deeply indebted to China.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 5:23:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
bring it on

Shi Yinhong, an adviser to China’s cabinet and a professor of international relations at Renmin University in Beijing, said ties between the two nations were more likely to deteriorate than improve, given Australia’s foreign policy alignment with the U.S.

“If the Australian government’s rhetoric is still loud and it sticks to its current demands, China may take more severe countermeasures,” he said. “If the Australian government -- mindful of its economic interests and opposition from the business community -- steps back, China would not need to take such steps.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-19/china-mulls-targeting-australian-wine-dairy-on-coronavirus-spat

I have been arguing this for years, stop relying on authoritarian nation like China.

when I tried to get one of my aggressive pieces published at a university ten years ago, I was told it was not yet ready for such material. It did not want to be seen attacking China, even on a university site that probably few would read.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 5:28:50 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yes, why on earth was this allowed ? And Newcastle too, and the port area of Adelaide. How come port leasing aren't federal responsibilities ?

Unpardonable.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 6:07:26 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
My solution: start cancelling permanent residency visas to Chinese and give them 8 weeks to get out of the country.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 6:27:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
i would love to see surveys about what Chinese-Australians think of China.

I don't know many, but most i have don't like communism.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 6:50:27 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Misopinionated,

Why do you lurch so often to a racist assertion in relation to anything to do with China and Chinese ? You can't differentiate between the totalitarian Chinese government and the Chinese people ? Do you really imagine that all Chinese people, from all over the world, are unquestioning servants of their rulers ?

Of course, it spares having to actually think.

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 6:58:39 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
LOUDmouth,

And they can take you with them. So start packing. And don't forget to send us a postcard.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 7:48:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I have always been in favour of Australia being an independent nonaligned country. There is no way that I support, not just foreign ownership of strategic assets, but I also oppose private ownership of such assets as well. Why any port facilities would be in the hands of foreign or private ownership is beyond me.

There are many Whitlam haters on here, but one thing they should agree with that Gough proposed back in the seventies was to "buy back the farm". I agreed then, and I still agree now.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 21 May 2020 7:02:43 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul1405,

Why do you think they got rid of Whitlam? Was he being anti-colonial in a post-colonial world?

Don't you think it was a set-up by international powers with vested colonial-based economic interests in Australia rather than some personal attack by a gin-soaked Governor General supporting conservative politicians.

Is Andrew Forrest doing anything differently in kicking Greg Hunt off the podium and putting his Chinese Communist Party mate up in his place to tell us how angry Xi is about our government not toeing the line?

PS Can be use CCP for Chinese Communist Party because I think we will have to write this out a lot from now on? Does the pro-China camp viz LOUDmouth etc have any objections?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 21 May 2020 8:08:28 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Whitlam? It's 45 years since he wrecked Australia. A lot has changed since then!
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 21 May 2020 9:47:47 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Misopinionated,

I used to be a Maoist, but dropped all that idiocy during the eighties, and certainly after the Tien An Men Massacres. I'm now pro-Chinese people :)

If anything, I'm pro-Taiwan: historically, Taiwan was more or less outside of the Chinese orbit, except for the invasions and attempted invasions by the Mongols in the Yuan dynasty, and by the Manchus in the Ching dynasty - i.e. by non-Han Chinese (i.e. over about half of the last millenium). In fact, I could be wrong but I think the Manchus didn't even occupy the whole island until the mid-nineteenth century, (the French also tried to invade it in the late nineteenth century), sixty years before the 1911 Revolution which overthrew their foreign rule. Taiwan had been conquered by the Japanese a few years before (1895), and would not be occupied by the Chinese until 1945.

So Taiwan was only ever under effective rule from the mainland (i.e. the Manchus, Mongol-related groups from Manchuria) for barely fifty years, and by Han Chinese from the mainland for only about four years.

No ? Think of it this way: imagine, given the British rule over India for 250 years, that after Independence, India had taken on the mantle of British imperialism and declared that all countries in the region which had been ruled by Britain were now to be ruled by its inheritor, India.

So, no, I don't support the forcible amalgamation of Taiwan into China. I don't support the oppression of Uighurs and Tibetans and other groups (Kazakhs, etc.) by the totalitarians. I don't support any of the aspects of the Belt and Road strategy which go beyond WTO rules. I wholeheartedly support the people of Hong Kong to control their own affairs.

And most certainly, I support the right of Chinese people to migrate to Australia like anybody else. There aren't any 'lesser people', Misop, except the odd bird-brained individual such as yourself, and perhaps Ttbn. Hmmm, I wonder if such people can be shipped back to wherever their unfortunate ancestors came from ?

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 21 May 2020 11:31:17 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
LOUDmouth (PS you don't mind me calling you LOUDmouth do you?)

What doesn't seem to have dawned on you (and you are not alone) is the CCP is sending migrants to Australia as colonists not as future Australian citizens.

I saw some stats on TV some months ago that showed that Chinese migrants are much less likely to apply for citizenship than other migrants viz Indian, Filipino. Not that many Chinese with permanent residency actually apply; apparently only a small proportion of them do.

This makes me believe that they prize Chinese (PRC) citizenship above Australian citizenship and that they view being Chinese as being more important to them than being Australian.

So all we have been doing is filling up the country with Chinese who will be more inclined towards the CCP than to Australia and when the call comes to unite under a common Chinese banner they will fall in line behind Xi and his successors.

You and people like you have all be led down the garden path. Didn't your mate Andrew Forrest make that clear a few weeks ago.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 21 May 2020 12:26:20 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Misop,

So ....... Chinese migrants apply for Australian citizenship proportionately less than people from other countries. Doesn't this suggest to you - please take this slowly, take as long as you need - that, if your data are correct, Chinese migrants are in no great hurry to cement their relationship with Australia ?

If I was Xi Jinping, and if I wanted Chinese people to flood Australia, I would be urging/forcing/pressuring them to become Australians ASAP. I suspect that the Chinese government is aware that it has only a couple of decades to put everything it wants in place, and hasn't got time to muck about and slowly, slowly 'colonising' Australia as you claim. My god, sometimes racists really are morons.

Of course, to get back to topic, the federal government should find ways (even if the horse has more or less bolted) of trying to get back control of Australian harbours from Chinese agencies, in Darwin, Newcastle and Adelaide, and wherever else they have succeeded. And the same goes for control by any other foreign power: the US, Russia, Britain, whatever. And not just of ports and harbours, but of land, water, etc.
Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 21 May 2020 1:06:24 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
LOUDmouth,

I think you can see the truth in what I have described (NB They were not my stats).

I just got some scuttlebutt from Philippines that China has been maintaining a closed community of its Wuhan virus infected citizens from Mainland PRC in Philippines. It has been raided by local police and all materials confiscated and the authorities are trying to arrange transport of the illegal Chinese residents back to PRC.

In case you as a pro-China lobbyist did not grasp what I just said it means that China has been sending its Wuhan virus infected cases off shore.

Yes LOUDmouth, that's YOUR China we're talking about.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 21 May 2020 1:36:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Whitlam? It's 45 years since he wrecked Australia. A lot has changed since then!
ttbn,
It'll easily be another 45 years before this Nation no longer cops the effects from his & Grasby's policies !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 21 May 2020 1:54:42 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Do we have the names of the moron traitors involved in that Darwin Harbour deal ?
Posted by individual, Thursday, 21 May 2020 1:56:33 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
individual,

it was the Chief Minister at the time, Adam Giles.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 21 May 2020 2:01:20 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr Opinion,
I thought the NT was part of our so-called Democracy ? There must have been others who backed him ! He alone could not have gotten that through all on his own !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 21 May 2020 7:03:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
individual,

From what I saw at the time it was all Giles' baby.

I think Giles did it purposively to give Anglo-Australia a taste of its own medicine. I won't say any more than that.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 21 May 2020 7:12:04 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I hope he's shacking in his boots for what he did. Stupidity, incompetence & vindictiveness all in one ? I wonder if he's left the NT by now !
Posted by individual, Friday, 22 May 2020 8:31:35 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I've been reading "Stars and Stripes," and have learned
some interesting facts.

The military buildup in Australia's Northern Territory
which includes a record number of US marines rotating there
every summer will continue as a response to growing
Chinese capabilities - according to a former Australian defense
official.

It seems that to support US Air Force and Marine activities
Australia and the US will invest $2 billion on air-craft
maintenance, support facilities, fuel storage, and upgrades
to accommodations, training areas and ranges. The Australian
Defence Force said in a statement last year. The figure
quoted will be 2,500 marines in Darwin.

The deployment of such a large marine contingent is an
important milestone.

President Obama announced plans to rotate 2,500 marine
Air-Ground Task Force to Darwin back in 2011.
But it took 8 years for the force to reach that level.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 22 May 2020 11:51:15 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Even Obama was horrified by the stupid selling off of Darwin harbour when we were inviting US troops to the Territory. That reaction from a Leftist US President and the lack of action by Canberra just shows what a bunch of useless mutts our politicians are.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 22 May 2020 12:25:38 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The Federal Government says it postponed this year's
deployment of US Marines to Darwin because of
restrictions designed to slow the spread of COVID-19.

About 2,500 US troops were scheduled to arrive in the
NT in the next few weeks. The Defence Minister said
a possible later deployment would be discussed.

The NT Chief Minister said the Marines would be welcomed
back after the crisis.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 22 May 2020 1:15:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Foxy,

When Obama found out about the leasing of Darwin Harbour to a Chinese state affiliated company he berated Turnbull for not giving America the heads up on what was going down prior to the lease being granted.

I saw it on TV when Obama was here and Turnbull looked at him with a stunned mullet look on his face. It's a wonder Turnbull didn't say to Obama "A deal's a deal!"

Thank God America is still willing to protect Australia from a Chinese invasion as a benefit of still being friends with the greatest democracy the world has ever seen.

Does any one know the story behind the Pacific War of 1941-45. China is going along the same path as Japan was in the events leading up to that war.

But as the Chinese business woman in Sydney was overheard saying: "Aren't the Australians dumb!" Yes lady, they sure are!
Posted by Mr Opinion, Friday, 22 May 2020 1:34:58 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr opinion,

i think naive is a better word. i dont think it was dumb for the democracies to hope that China could become something better.

Clearly now, howeve, the CCP is another disgusting authoritarian regime.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Friday, 22 May 2020 2:15:09 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr. Opinion,

If it wasn't for American, we would be Chinese already.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 22 May 2020 2:16:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ttbn,

I think you mean Japanese. It was America that turned back the Japanese occupation forces at Coral Sea and Guadalcanal.

America was allied to the British Empire of which Australia was a part.

In think China is acting very similarly to the way Japan did 80 years ago. I think China will be a lot harder to deal with than Japan was.

Who do you think Andrew Forrest will be barracking for?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Friday, 22 May 2020 2:34:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr O,

Australia has for so long lived in a region - and to
a certain extent - a whole world shaped by our
government's powerful allies. Britain and America.
We're not used to dealing with powerful states that
are not our allies. Now we find ourselves dealing with
a country like China.

In the past business and national security did not really
intersect. Now they do.

This creates a need for new habits, for dialogue among
stake holders with very different perspectives.

Australia must calmly hold its ground with China.
At the same time the government needs to listen to
advice on how to proceed with negotiations. And find
solutions that will be acceptable to both parties without
compromising out national security. Not an easy task
for any one - especially for people with little or no
experience with different regimes and cultures.
Not a job for the soft-hearted.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 22 May 2020 4:02:33 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Foxy,

They will only be able to hold off China for so long.

The history of civilization is primarily a history of imperialism whether it be city-states, nation-states, ethnic-states.

I just hope America wins the war that will eventually come. Only the naïve will believe that China wants to share the world with peoples who are not Chinese. The history of Chinese shows it as a closed order that only ever took from others and never gave. It's what one would call a deep structure that drives the Chinese civilization.

But if you and others want to believe everything will be hunky-dory then I suggest you all join hands and start singing Kumbaya together as the new Romans let the lions into the arena.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Friday, 22 May 2020 4:28:30 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr O,

All empires have crumbled eventually as history
has shown. China's turn will come. It's already
not what it once was. Modernisation is taking hold.
Whether it can do it politically we shall have to
wait and see. The old guard will eventually die out.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 22 May 2020 4:38:29 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Foxy,

I disagree with you. The winds of war are upon us.

Who can forget the footage of Neville Chamberlain on the steps of a plane waving a letter from der Fuhrer and telling people that there will be peace in their time.

I suppose we could get Andrew Forrest to stand on the steps of his private jet and exclaim likewise with text on his iPhone: A Message From Xi.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Friday, 22 May 2020 4:53:00 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
In 1949, at the birth of the PRC, the Chinese people were told that the CCP would rule for a short while then "wither away". Seventy one years later, and the CCP is stronger and viler than ever. People who think that China will ever be just another nation like the rest have their heads firmly in the sand. Xi Jinping, like Mao Zedong, is a Red Emperor in the mold of emperors of two thousand years ago, when Confucianism was ousted in favour of Legalism. We haven't seen anything yet. China invented hegemony, and their intention is to cut Australia and South East Asia off from the country they regard as the current hegemon in Asia, the United States. As far as I know, the US vice President has been the only person to recognise this and say it publicly. But, everyone is too busy looking for faults in the President to listen.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 22 May 2020 5:37:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I don't care how evil you make China out to be.
America's track record is disgusting and we should not serve their system or interests either.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 22 May 2020 5:46:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
AC,

What is so disgusting about America - as compared to China, in particular, the Chinese Communist Party? Do you see the democratic US, leader of the free world on a par with totalitarian China, which since the birth of the CCP has killed millions of its own people simply because thy dissented from the Communist line?
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 22 May 2020 6:03:01 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ttbn

AC has never been able to get over his conspiracy theories and has demonstrated TDS for a long time. He went on to steroids when Trump moved the Israel embassy to Jerusalem after previous Presidents promised but were to gutless to do so. He would be much happier to have Obama or some other anti Israel President.
Posted by runner, Friday, 22 May 2020 6:28:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
AC is part of the pro-China clique like LOUDmouth.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Friday, 22 May 2020 6:44:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr O,

Predicting the future is risky at the best of times.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 22 May 2020 6:58:42 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
runner,

I don't see why he believes anyone is "making out" China to be anything, when everything about the CCP is on public view and initiated by them. He has reasons for what he says, I suppose. Maybe he will share them with us. I have asked him if he is Chinese himself, but he didn't respond.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 22 May 2020 7:16:49 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hey ttbn,
I think the actions of the US are morally reprehensible, that's why, and you lot have got your blinkers on.
I mean they tried to stage a coup in Venezeula a couple of weeks ago and the left could've gone apeshit over that, but they said little you know why?

Because democrats also profit from these wars.
The media could've gone nuts over it, but the only time they don't stoke division between the left and right and go all TDS is when its in support of US foreign policy.
The whole thing is as fake as a piece of Maccas cheese.

Do you not think the US and Israel aided Islamic State to try to remove Assad?
Do you not think they gave them the chemical weapons to use and blamed it on Assad? They did.
Do you think they aren't stealing Syrian oil and aiding the rebels of Idlib, - the remnants of Islamic State i.e. their proxy army? They are.

They've been conducting collective punishment on the people of Venezuela, Syria, Yemen etc. - starving these nations out, stopping medical supplies.
Tens of thousands dead.
And you so called Christians champion this runner?
If so your Christianity is as fake as Macca's cheese too.
Shameful.

This is the country that murdered 500,000 babies for WMD's that never existed.
Do you support that too?
I think not.

I wont support any dirty filthy underhanded crap from any nation.
US, China or even our own.
Capiche?

US foreign policy don't change no matter what President.
The US is a rogue nation that uses theft, murder, biowarfare, terrorism and collective punishment to achieve its goals.
It survives off the lifeblood of other nations.
It even used the coronavirus pandemic to further it's own war agenda.
- Never let a good crisis go to waste -

- And saying so doesn't mean I support China.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 22 May 2020 11:03:33 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Oh, on the issue of Darwin Port:
I think we probably should consider taking it back and annulling the agreement.
You can't have rights to our ports and play trade wars at the same time.
Contract voided.
Too bad so sad.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 22 May 2020 11:07:00 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Don't worry we have ScumO's glove puppet Simon Birmingham ready to give some third rate Chinese flunky a real talking to. The only problem is the third rate Chinese flunky wont pick up the phone!

The latest communique from Commander ScumO' to General Donald on progress of the China War;

To the Commander in Chief from Commander ScumO';

The Chinese have captured all of our sea and air ports, roads, towns and cities. Taken control of 100% of our land mass, advanced as far south as Macquarie Island. They have defeated our army, navy and air force, taken the entire population prisoner. Myself and Lieutenant Glove Puppet only remain, at command HQ in the centre of the Simpson Desert. The two of us will launch a counter offensive any day soon, and drive the red devils out of AUSTRALIA! VICTORY IS AT HAND! Got to go now the guards are bring our bowl of rice for dinner. Only if we had a telephone and we could call the red devils and explain their situation, I'm sure the Chinese would understand the perilous situation they are in
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 23 May 2020 5:51:56 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Foxy,

You say "Predicting the future is risky at the best of times."

But we have to take a punt at what lies around the corner. The ancients had the Delphic Pythia and people came from all over the known world to ask her about the future.

We want to control our future and we are all guilty of trying to predict what is going to happen in our world. It's in our nature. Even something as simple as gambling is an offshoot of our predilection with inventing the future.

When it comes to things like world events we can use the accumulated knowledge of our researches in all the Arts things like history, sociology, philosophy, archaeology, anthropology, etc., to guide us in our predictions. But of course there can be more than one outcome and we will get lots of disagreement on what all of our knowledge is actually telling us.

My assessment is that China is heading down a similar path to the one Japan took and that this will lead to a major war over territories in the SW Pacific. I think China will overrun SE Asia, Australia, and Oceania, incorporating them into a restored Chinese empire, this time controlled by the CCP.

I would like to hear your prediction. What do you think might happen?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Saturday, 23 May 2020 10:07:41 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr. Opinion,

Foxy will have to get guidance from the ABC before she can say anything. She is just an empty vessel waiting to be filled with rubbish.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 23 May 2020 10:26:18 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
AC,

It was ALLEGED by someone named Chavez that America was involved. Investigations reveal that to be total bullshite. Even the US-hating ABC didn't mention any involvement.

As for the rest of your rant, it seems that you are a Commo as well as a Chinaman and AntiSemite.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 23 May 2020 10:39:59 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ttbn,

What is your prediction about the future re China?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Saturday, 23 May 2020 10:42:58 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
What is your prediction about the future re China?
Mr Opinion,
My guess is that Trump & Putin have the sense to prevent China from becoming a malignant World dictatorship !
Posted by individual, Saturday, 23 May 2020 10:56:43 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr. Opinion,

Similar to yours, because I've done a lot of reading on China, and know what it wants. We can stop it, but I have absolutely no faith that we have a government capable of doing so.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 23 May 2020 11:20:53 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yes there is no doubt that they will annex us when they think they can get away with it.
One little small problem with that for them is the $950 billion US and $650 billion UK foreign investment that just those two countries have down here.
Can anyone remember in Nov 2007 when Chinalco tried to buy Rio Tinto outright back then what the FIRB did?
Posted by mmadpat, Saturday, 23 May 2020 6:31:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The Australian people no longer trust the two main stream parties- there is an alternative to open borders.

It requires a bit of thought before voting- and some of the backgrounds are a little colourful- at least the lefty media presents them as colourful.
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 24 May 2020 8:45:28 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Canem Malum,

Just keep doing what the CCP wants us to do: bringing in millions of Chinese migrants to build up the strength of Chinese communities in Australia who will elect Gladys Liu types to Parliament.

As Xi will tell you: "A change in population is as good as an Hawaiian holiday when Australia is on fire."

Either that or we sit around waiting for the invasion.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 24 May 2020 9:31:32 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
CM,

You are right when you say "The Australian people no longer trust the two main stream parties- there is an alternative to open borders". At least, you are right are referring to people capable of thinking for themselves. But, how many people in Australia think at all, these days?

Australians are scaredy cats. They meekly accept compulsory trips to the polling booths, but keep putting the same galahs back in to lord it over them. I believe that the only way to change things is to put blank ballot papers into the box at the door as you pass through. Even the galahs would get the message that we want, and deserve, better. If we don't start think, we will continue to get the proverbial 'governments that we deserve'.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 24 May 2020 10:20:06 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ttbn- With respect I don't think that blank papers influence pollies at all. Maybe you know something that I don't. But voting for Pauline for example would motivate them- the movement of votes to closed border candidates could make the difference between obtaining office or not.

The two major parties are using the fear of splitting the vote to keep it's power base. For example the Democratic Labour Party split from the Labor Party in 1955 and took part of the Labor vote with it. The fear is that if Australian voters started voting for Pauline Hansen for example then most of the votes would be taken from the Liberal Party and so this could effectively reduce their vote and still wouldn't get Hansen's party past the threshold.

The thing is the Australian people need to do something to change the major parties open borders policies.

** The Australian people need to take a risk to protect their future otherwise it is looking pretty bleak. **

One of the biggest problems with the mainstream parties is their funding base is dependent on those that want open borders.

If another funding base were to be found that is supportive of closed borders then this could change. A getup type appeal could work- but getup and paypal are global universalists (usually SJW's are far left). Of course it's always possible to donate directly to the candidates through their bank accounts if they advertise the account details. The banks are still behaving moderately non-partisan so "Sleeping Giant" type attacks are less likely to obtain traction. Good to hear that one of the San Francisco based Sleeping Giant's founder's found himself out of work- possibly because of conflict of interest concerns.

Whilst the funding base pays for propaganda to influence the people- if the people use their own judgement then the funding advantage has less power. In the final analysis the vote is the critical element
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 24 May 2020 1:21:02 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I just saw on the news that Mike Pompeo said the US might give Australia the flick because Victoria has signed up to China's Belt and Road Initiative.

Pompeo is saying that it presents a risk to America's international security system and would lead to the exclusion of Australia from its inner circle of trusted allies.

Well Mike, isn't it obvious that is exactly what China wants to see happen.

What you don't seem to understand Mike is that Australians want jobs and growth from China more than they want America's protection against a Chinese invasion and Australia's politicians, bureaucrats and businesses have been selling off the country to China for the past several decades. Just have a look at what Andrew Forrest did a few weeks ago.

So go on Mike, do it! See if we care.

PS: LOUDmouth and the pro-China camp sends you a big Aussie "Ni Hao Mate!"
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 25 May 2020 8:59:04 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
CM,

We won't know until enough people put in blank papers. We do know that most people are not interested in voting for Pauline Hanson. We do know that One Nation does not have the money to stand candidates in many electorates. We do know that voters are not interested in conservatism, as the AC's humiliating result at the last election showed.

New politicians. New parties. Neither will make a damn of difference. Only new thinking by the electorate can change anything, and that thinking has to include showing the current time-servers that they are not wanted in their current form.

If people don't have the sense, or the courage to show their displeasure by putting in blank ballot papers, perhaps with the message, 'None of these. We deserve better', then they deserve what they have now and what they will continue to have.

I did this for the lower house at the last election, voting in the Senate only. I will be doing the same thing at the next election. I do not deserve the rubbish we have in Canberra.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 25 May 2020 9:39:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Last I heard, Pompeo was sucking up to us; but I can't say that I would blame the US for abandoning us to China, given what that moron in Victoria is up to.

Our political system can only be described as ratshite if the federal government cannot prevent states from selling off property and infrastructure to our enemies, or doing deals with them.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 25 May 2020 9:46:15 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ttbn,

State and federal governments have both been selling us off to China for the past 30 years. It's as if it has been a competition to see who can sell off the most the fastest.

And it looks like Victoria is going to take out the gold medal.

Or as Xi is probably telling the CCP right at this moment: "Today Hong Kong, tomorrow Australia!"
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 25 May 2020 9:54:30 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I have a friend working with a conservative candidate not from One Nation (not that One Nation is bad) for a while and they did what they considered very well at the last election. This was surprising given that their funding was much lower than other candidates. With a bit of initiative you can get things done for low costs. The major parties have better polling tactics than the minor parties. Often the major parties have four people at each polling station even during pre-polling. Many more people are voting during pre-polling these days about 50% if you can get your people out there during pre-polling it makes a lot of difference because there's also less polling stations. Of course you have to sell your policies to the voters to get them to make a commitment.

And you need to pick your electorate carefully that value what you're selling.

You need to have a good team that is able to make a time commitment during elections and especially the pre-polling.

Even The Green's always have a person at the station's permanently- you have to admire their organization if not their policies. They have very motivated members.

The major parties often run a tea and lunch service. There are many other tactics if you've got eyes in your head.

There is some risk for conservative candidates my friend was threatened a few times. Most people however are very polite. Every time a conservative speaker comes to Australia or there is a conservative rally there are riots by Antifa et al. These tactics have been used by the Communists for about one hundred years. Candidates for One Nation often elderly for example have had a visit by Antifa to their house- and been intimidated from standing. Younger people are afraid for their careers- and Communists accuse the other side of wedge politics- but these sorts of tactics were used in the creation of other Communist nations.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 25 May 2020 10:39:30 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Polling is all about the numbers- the number of booths you can cover during pre-polling (2 or 3 stations) and election day (up to 30 stations on election day). It was harder to get people for pre-polling than on polling day. The AEC website has a lot of information about polling days and times.

Letter-boxing of course is a good way of course to let people know about your product. There are rules on political material and sometime they need to be vetted by the AEC before being released- so it's a good idea to prepare in advance.

There are some leadership issues with the Conservative Movement. Often even in the supposedly stable major parties there is a lot of jockeying for position. The major parties can pull in an extremely impressive amount of resources when they believe it's important. Not sure if it makes much difference but it's very intimidating.

The material above is well known to the major parties- there are many other tactics- most of it is common sense for smart people that are able to do their own research.

Many people seem to go into politics without considering the business model in enough detail- that's probably why they fail- but they probably know more than those that don't even try. I've got a lot of respect for the people that man the polling stations.

I believe that the majority of the Australian people are not represented well by the political system- this seems to be born out by surveys- much of this is due to lack of cooperation. As they say in The Godfather movie "power cannot be given- it can only be taken"- the major parties know this- so they take it.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 25 May 2020 10:40:06 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
CM.

It's up to people who want to be politicians to do everything they can to get noticed - not us.

Mr. Opinion,

Have a look at "Reaping the whirlwind" in Catallaxy Files today. The video is a real tragi-comedy about what happens when countries get 'help' from China.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 25 May 2020 11:43:25 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ttbn- Again with the greatest respect. I'm sure everyone is in a position to help in polling. But I don't see it as a matter of us and them- it's all us- if we want something done we need to make it happen.

That in some ways is the difference between Traditionalism and Locke Liberalism is the civic responsibility- ironically in Locke Liberalism- that promotes the equally free individuals found in the time of the cave man- government in Locke forms is big expensive and global.

Global government suffers from the issue of a "tyranny of the masses".

I know the candidates get most of the credit- but sometimes you need to stand in the shadow pushing someone else forward- for every one person out front there's twenty standing behind. In some ways it's a good thing that they can't do everything themselves.

Politicians get most of the benefit but it takes a long time and a lot of work before a candidate can become a politician- they deserve it- especially if they are an independent.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 25 May 2020 12:57:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Sorry I meant to say. I'm sure not everyone is in a position to help in polling.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 25 May 2020 12:59:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
CM,

I assisted the Australian Conservatives both financially and by disseminating information. I was among the first party members. They got about 3 votes. I'm afraid Australians are too politically naive and apathetic. I don't expect them to take any notice of what I suggest. They will continue to vote LNP/Labor/Green, and they will never stop grizzling. I just hope that I'm not around when Australia is another Tibet or Mongolia or Hong Kong.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 25 May 2020 1:50:14 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ttbn,

How much longer do you intend to be around?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 25 May 2020 1:52:40 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
'I just hope that I'm not around when Australia is another Tibet or Mongolia or Hong Kong.'

One small part of me ttbn would love to see the Chinese ruling Australia when the extinction rebellion facist throw their tantrums.
Posted by runner, Monday, 25 May 2020 1:55:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
runner,

Stick around for another 10 years and your wish will probably come true.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 25 May 2020 2:39:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ttbn- I'm ashamed of our fellow people that this happened to you. Kudos for participating. I wouldn't be investing large amounts of money in any business model even a political one without a very good chance of an equal benefit and success. More important to give your time.

Everyone wants money but not everyone has the capability to deliver on goals. My friend runs things on very little funding- slow and steady. Some businesses try the quick route- for example startups- it can work.

AirBNB- “overnight success” took a lot of effort, expertise, and 2 years.

My friend did much better than 3 votes. I think I voted for AC in the last election they were a good team- a lot of volunteers turned up wearing T-Shirts on polling day. I'm not sure why it failed- there has to be a reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Conservatives

AC website- got over 4% in two electorates- impressive. I think it's ambitious to expect to get elected short term- if you can get 8% you will be snapped up by the Liberal Party perhaps with a good policy negotiating position. I think 8% may be enough to start changing the landscape.

It's a long game- that's what the communists and socialists do- you've need a business model that can keep them in the game and slowly influence the public till you become part of the landscape and they change their minds. The sad thing is the old parties are changing so much they are out of touch with the electorate. Many have seen signs that the Australian people are losing faith with the major parties- but don't seem to trust new parties much- the question is how does a new movement tap this disillusioned group.

Some electorates have been more impacted by changes in society than others. The messages need to be clear- often even the major parties have unclear messaging- they don't need clarity- they have tenure.

All politics is local
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 25 May 2020 3:09:58 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The Clive Palmer campaign was interesting- lot of funding without mutual understanding with the electorate. A variation of the Liberal Party Free Economics with a MAGA hat.

I’d be doing more market research before committing valuable resources. Focussing the campaign on low hanging fruit and building the movement. I’m not sure going for the By-Election was the best strategy- from memory Batman is a bell weather electorate. They may swing between the major parties but not much else. The campaign needs to proceed based on evidence based tactics. It's hard for career politicians in a new movement because the dynamics demand steadiness- but they need a job.

As Sun Tzu says you need to win at home then go to battle.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 25 May 2020 3:12:56 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 11
  7. 12
  8. 13
  9. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy