The worlds most respected, and best known, naturalists Sir David Attenborough has warned the moment of crisis on climate change has come. Sir David has called on China to lead the world in reducing carbon emissions, believing other countries would follow China's lead. He noted the destruction caused by the Australian bushfires, going on to criticise Canberra's support for coal mines.

The question is; Do we listen to Sir David Attenborough, or do we go alone with the likes of Morrison and Joyce with their support of Big Coal and "Nothing to see here, its business as usual", rubbish? The choice is ours.

Do we listen to Sir David Attenborough
Paul1405,
I have agreed with that long before he started bringing it up. The real question is, will the do-gooders & bureaucrats & the common bogans take note ?
How can we ever expect such discipline from people who think a national Service is too much of a sacrifice ?
What these morons need to start realising is that the world they're living in now is not one that is as forgiving as the one a hundred or even just 50 years ago. In both a social & environmental sense.
The industrial revolution brought better conditions for billions of people & billions of Dollars for some people. That in turn made it rather easy to go through life & it also made far too easy to forget that too much of a good thing is very, very bad !
First things first, reduce birth rates, reduce baby bonuses particularly in the industrialised Nations to 3 children per family. Encourage voluntary sterilisation for people who have no access to any other birth control AND, reward them for the decision ! Way more economically viable than perpetual foreign aid that does nothing anyway except let a few enjoy a great lifestyle.
The Planet will thank us for it but Climate Change won't take any notice because it has to run it's full circles whether we like it or not. All we really need to do is cut back pollution. Stop frivolous events & habits. Stop frivolous industries !
Stop being selfish ! And, last but not least stop being so stupid ! Accept that Govt. can't function if you're against everything they try to do to please all ! Stop sabotaging your own society !

Paul1405,

It's definitely time to shelve the arguments over climate change science.

The argument now is all about the politics of AGW and the need to get everyone outside of China, US, EU, Russia, Japan and India to start demanding that these big emitters start reducing their greenhouse gas emissions, especially to prevent Australia from being the number one victim of global warming.

Surely we can all stand behind our new climate change warrior Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison as he throws down the gauntlet to the big emitters saying 'We won't be victims of AGW!' Unless of course you think he just doesn't care if Australia burns.

Hopefully someone will blow in Attenborough's ear about Australia's droughts and policies on reducing fuel loads. Surely he can't be all that naive as to think it was CO2 that did it.

Joe

Loudmouth,

The burning of fossil fuels is the only probable cause of global warming that Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison can take action against.

Surely you don't expect him to stop sun spots from occurring and volcanoes from erupting or for him to alter the Milankovitch cycles? Goodness gracious are you really serious about trying to get him to do these things!

No, I didn't think so. So let's just get him to work on the fossil fuel thingy. He should be able to do that. Unless of course you think he just doesn't care if Australia burns as a consequence of being the world's number one victim of AGW. Is that what you're thinking?

If ever your lot get some real evidence to blame CO2 for anything let us know Mr O. Meanwhile stick your "probable" garbage where it wont do us any harm.

Did you know, it has started raining. There is an obvious reason for that, not one of your probable bits of rubbish.

The little cyclone that skirted the WA coast last week has sorted the Indian Ocean Dipole, & allowed some moisture through to Oz, & thus the monsoon to become active.

Gold coast theme parks & the highway are flooded as the monsoon tries to catch up to normal. Hell we got 80mm last night well inland.

So come on with your probable, or even possible, the usual words for warmists, & try to explain how CO2 first caused the IOD to give us this drought, then suddenly turned on the rain.

It will be interesting to watch your imagination at work, or will you wait for some other dill to try to blame it on CO2.

Meanwhile will someone please be kind & put that doddering old goat Attenborough out of his miserable stupidity, & into a nursing home, before he hurts himself.

Hasbeen,

That's it mate, keep focusing on the science argument. Keeps you busy and happy and most importantly out of our way. We have bigger fish to fry and no time anymore to talk about the nonsense stuff you keep bringing up.

But if you do want to ever do something constructive why not start by getting Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison to request the big greenhouse gas emitters to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. Unless of course you just don't care if Australia burns as a consequence of being the world's number one victim of AGW.

Richard Attenborough makes great nature movies.
Outside of that?

Dan

Well, we certainly do not want to listen to Attenborough, a 93 year old codger who, after a lifetime of giving us wonderful TV programs, should know when to bow out before he throws away the dignity and respect he earned during his career.

That the Left, with generally no respect at all for the aged, uses the old fella's ramblings for ideological reasons is hypocritical, but typical of the breed.

Morrison has earned a lot of respect by saying that he will continue doing what is best for Australia, and not what is suggested by people and organisations outside of Australia. What Morrison says and does is actually important to Australians of all persuasions. What an old foreigner thinks is not

Well there you are folks. Mr O, "That's it mate, keep focusing on the science argument. Keeps you busy and happy and most importantly out of our way. We have bigger fish to fry and no time anymore to talk about the nonsense stuff you keep bringing up".

Mr O has finally admitted that like the rest of his arty farty mates & his green brothers, science has nothing to do with his actions or agenda. It is all part of the lefty ratbag plan for a socialist/communist take over of the planet, via the UN. Of course none of them would understand the science, which is why they refuse to debate it, & display their ignorance.

I wonder how much they are paying Attenborough.

well I suppose attention has to be diverted from BOM who advised the Government their would be no decent rainfall until April. And they want to pretend what temperatures will be in 2030! What a joke.

Poor old Sir David who has been pushing the evolutionary lies for decades. The belief in this foolish unscientific theory always leads to dumb conclusions.

Any more dumb headlines in smh today?

"Morrison has earned a lot of respect by saying that he will continue doing what is best for Australia," according to ttbn.

Especially that huge majority of billionaire coal mine owning Australians. Now its payback time for Clive Palmer.

Hassy, we are not privy to the "science" of your 85 year old neighbour like you are. That old codger who told you climate change was all baloney.
I would listen to one Sir David Attenborough before I would take one bit of notice of a 100 Hasbeen's, and their old coder mates from down the road.

Paul1405,

Hasbeen probably wouldn't trust anyone like Attenborough unless they were from Qld and reeked of Bundaberg Rum.

China's CO2 emissions 2005 - 6,263 mt
China's CO2 emissions 2018 - 11,371 mt

China is building or has approved the construction of more coal plants this year than the entire Australian electricity production. In addition they are constructing over 300 coal plants in other countries as part of their Belt and Road imperialist charade.

Explain to me again how they will 'lead the world'!!

(Meanwhile Trump's USA is leading the world in actual reductions in emissions.)

Attenborough is a TV personality. He used to venture forth into the wilds with nothing more than his backpack and safari gear...oh and a camera man, sound man, makeup artist, transport coordinator, producer, agent, etc.
But now he's just a voice-over man. Why would we give his whining any more weight that that of any other 'personality'. What's next - seeking advice on future robotics from Anthony (C3PO)Daniels?

The mentality of the Lefties is a far greater "Moment of Crisis" !

mhaze,

Don't worry our new climate change warrior Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison is already preparing to bring China to heel for its role in making Australia the world's number one victim of anthropogenic global warming.

By the time Soot gets through with all of the big greenhouse gas emitters they will be eating coal out of his hand.

Tell China to get on board? Yeah, let's see how that pans out. When reality sinks in that Global warming is just a scapegoat with no actual solutions, then maybe after that some real actions well be taken. Things like managing our own enviornment instead of waiting for China to get onboard. There's nothing you can do to stop the highest polluters out there, because those polluters aren't in your country.

The sooner the global warming globalists realize this, the sooner they can forget their globalist agendas and actually do something for the enviornment like water management plans, waste management plans, energy management that works. You know everything that actually matters without a global treaty on climate change (which won't ever happen).

Meanwhile, there are flood warnings for parts of NSW.

Issy, are you reinforcing the extremes of weather caused by climate change. Frequent mega storms are a probability because of CC, don't expect to see bushfires during one of these mega storm events.

Do you lads believe climate change will cause nothing more than bushfires? Got news for you buddy, extremes of weather are not confined to drought, floods and winds are just as likely, get used to it, its the new norm.

Paul1405,
So, what do you suggest would be a way to stave off all those dire predictions ?
Please don't say Govt should do "something" !

Announcing new prophet Paul

'Do you lads believe climate change will cause nothing more than bushfires? Got news for you buddy, extremes of weather are not confined to drought, floods and winds are just as likely, get used to it, its the new norm.'

Hopefully predicting the future will bring a halt to him rewriting history.

Again Paul, if you want to be taken seriously you have to keep up with the facts.

Even NASA have published figures showing all forms of extreme weather have diminished over the last 15 years.

You need to read something other than green propaganda to get some knowledge, of the facts of life, & gain some credibility.

Hell I even told you in an earlier post that the theory is that it will reduce the temperature difference between the tropics & the poles & thus the potential for extreme weather.

About the only evidence that the globe is warming is the fact that extreme weather is diminishing.

"Extreem weather is part of climite change."

So that means it's ok to not plan for extreem weather because you're putting your plans in other nations to get their act together? Climite change is a scapegoat! Blame China, blame cooperations, blame politicians, blame your neighbor's oil leaking car and another neighbor who always has their lights on.

When instead you should make plans for disaster that you can act on. Take a lesson from tornado alley in the US. they have tornado shelters, plans for what to do when extreem weather hits, and then make sure everyone is contacted and ok after it's over.

Don't blame climate change and wait for other nations to fix your disasters. Be better then that. Learn from the brush fire so that next time it won't be as bad. Act on reducing the fire fuel, or at least keeping the fuel a safe distance away from homes, buildings, and roads. Learn from the flood areas and plan accordingly. It isn't climite change if it happens more then once. At that point it's negligence to the issue, not climite change invoked extreem weather.

Hassy, it would be nice if you put up a reference for your claims once in a while. Unless of course that crusty old bloke down the road you rely on to debunk climate change science is coincidentally also named Nasa.

NASA reveals 2019 is the second warmest year after 2016 since records begun in 1880.

A reference for Hassy,

http://climate.nasa.gov/news/2945/nasa-noaa-analyses-reveal-2019-second-warmest-year-on-record/

The last time I saw an Attenborough 'lecture' on the end of the world, he was propping himself up against a tame rhino, lamenting his sure knowledge that the species would soon be 'gone'.

It might seem trite and heartless to say 'who cares'; but who cares.

Most people never see animals in the wild, whether they are rhinos, elephants or koalas. They see them in the safety of zoos: zoos like Monarto and Western Plains where natural conditions are replicated, and where animals are bred.

Very few people these days want to plough around in the bush, where the first thing they are likely to be confronted by is and Eastern brown or Tiger snake. The Australian bush is just not a safe and friendly place to be; and not just because of regular, normal bushfires and floods, lack of water and facilities that bring about the deaths, in remote areas, of foreign tourists and stupid locals.

Animals have been dying out, becoming extinct, since the dinosaurs went. Millions of dollars have been spent to ensure that as many birds and animals as possible are available for viewing safely in captivity, and more of them are being released into the wild.

Sure, it's awful to see burnt native animals. But they were getting burnt by the same bushfires as they are now for a very long time before we arrived here. Get over it. And, get over David Attenborough, even if he can't get over himself.

ttbn,

Don't worry. Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison is back on the job. All will be well. He cannot get rid of sun spots, stop volcanoes erupting or alter Milankovitch cycles but he can get the big emitters of greenhouse gases to reduce their emissions to levels that will stop making Australia the number one victim of global warming.

Praise be Soot! The hopes of millions are riding with your every action. In fact, your political career now depends on you getting the big emitters to reduce their emissions. We know you can do it Soot. We don't call you a climate change warrior for nothing.

We you don't want to do it then you might as well pack your family back off to Hawaii.

Mr O, Mr O, Mr O, ye of little faith! The anointed one can do anything, volcanoes, sun spots, grow hair on a billiard ball, your wish is his command. Did you not hear the howls of protest from Beijing this morning, because St Scott the patron saint of CC, cancelled his regular Saturday night order from the 'Golden Dragon' restaurant and take-away to demonstrate how serious he is about CC and the Chinese, Big Clive applauded his decisive action, why not you. Today the Chinese economy is in ruins!

Is that all you two can do, to trivialise and divert from these extremely serious issues ? How dare you !

Any chance of grappling with the real issues ? Too much for you ?

Joe

Replying to my mention that by the theory global warming is supposed to reduce extremes of weather, & extremes are reducing he comes back with,

"NASA reveals 2019 is the second warmest year after 2016 since records begun in 1880"

What the hell does the temperature have to do with extreme weather events, nothing except the global warming theory tells us that the hotter it is, the less extreme weather.

Typical warmist. The couple of other fools will never answer a point or question as they dam well know that in any scientific discussion they have not a single fact to hang an argument on, hence fools like Mr O talking such rubbish.

Isn't it just a little to idiotic to think Climate Change is something new ? What industries did the Dinosaurs have that caused them to become extinct ?
Australia's supposed to have been green & lush so what industries did the Aborigines have ?
What is new is the phenomenon of indoctrinated pseudo intellectuals who, after making very extensive use of the facilities & commodities manufactured by industrialists to satisfy consumers, many, many of them pseudo intellectuals, are denouncing the efforts of those who keep them alive.
You know the end is nigh when 66 year olds carry on like pre-school kids.

Hi Hasbeen,

I was watching the wonderful "Vera" last night and noticed these young kids surfing - off the coast of Newcastle in NE England, maybe around Whitley Bay. I thought how wonderful it was that the water there hasn't been heated up yet to make it unpleasant to surf here. Maybe surfies should migrate from here to there, once they discover the secret :)

The historian Fernand Braudel remarked casually in his magisterial trilogy that when Europeans discovered tobacco, farmers in England quickly started to plant and harvest it. Can tobacco be grown in England since then ?

The Venerable Bede (a.k.a. the Venereal Bard) wrote (around 850 AD) of wine being produced at monasteries, i.e. grapes being grown, in England's north - and even in Scotland's south. Thank goodness it isn't so hot now that that can be done.

Archaeologists digging up a Middle-Ages cemetery in Greenland had to stop because the ground was still deep in permafrost, a foot or so down.

Perhaps it's only legend but the Vikings were supposed to have grown crops and grapes in eastern Canada. Can grapes grow in eastern Canada these days ? God, I hope not, how could Trudeau cope ?

Grapes used to be grown in Germany's Black Forest at elevations of 780 m, but the highest these days is around Boden at 560 m (Lamb, 1959). On that rough basis, it used to be two degrees C hotter in the Middle Ages.

Joe

Joe, gave you a fair chance to come up with the evidence that it was MY MATES who were responsible for the bushfires, as you claimed, or are you just another one of the many deniers who MAKE UP LIES!

The whole denial thing with climate change is becoming a sick joke, so we lampoon you, the vast majority of Australian's are now demanding real action on climate change.

the vast majority of Australian's are now demanding real action on climate change.
Paul1405,
And, that action is ? What ?

Paul1405,

There is hope.

Our great champion of turning back the clock on climate change - you guessed it, it's Soot - will now have to put pressure on the big greenhouse gas emitters to reduce their emissions in order to save his political career.

He could do something like threaten to deport all the Chinese colonists from Sydney and Melbourne or refuse to sell coal to China or turn down his invitation from Xi Jinping to attend a State dinner in his honour at the Forbidden City.

There are lots of things Soot can do. Just got to get his mind off taking a holiday to the Caribbean at the first sign of the next bushfire catastrophe.

Individual,

I think Paul might mean the reduction of fuel loads in national parks and the drastic overhaul of environmental laws and policies. If so, although I'm not sure about the 'vast' majority, but I'm with him.

Joe

"NASA reveals 2019 is the second warmest year after 2016 since records begun in 1880."

These declarations are made regularly but are more propaganda than science - so of coarse the alarmists will lap it up.

These claims never take into account the margins of error (MoE). Back in 2014 when they made the same claim about that year they were finally forced to admit that they were only 38% sure that it was accurate due to the MoE. Even using their highly dubious MoE of 0.1c, they cannot say with any certainty that 2019 was the second highest.

Still, those who claim to follow the science but actually follow the propaganda will fall for it all over again.

just saw a 60 minutes episode featuring small islands in the Solomons. Some Australian Scientist claims that a tiny sand island & a number of houses have disappeared in the past ten years due to rising sea levels.
Then, the scientist (Aust) explained that the sea level s have risen there by 15 cm. If a 15 cm rise over ten or so years results in houses built on sandbanks then they would not have lasted any more than ten years three hundred years ago. Then, our smart scientist (Aust) says that the next cyclone will was away more houses. Then, the reporter (Aust also) stated that that some islands have sunk or are sinking ?? Surprise, surprise ??
I have seen houses built below the high tide mark on Australian Islands & guess what ? They're inundated to at King tides when the winds are blowing.
Houses or rather shacks are deliberately put up for 2nd class residents below the high tide mark so that some insipid bureaucrats can extract more funding for their consultant mates & ensure that the bleating can continue !
It's just such a criminal rort & scientists condone it because they get funding for it !

Paul,

There have been hundreds of "moments of crisis" since the first climate change meeting in 1990 whenever it is too hot, too cold, too wet or too dry.

At what point do they stop crying wolf.

Shadow Minister,

Don't worry Soot "Beam up me Scotty' Morrison is looking into as part of his new role as a born-again climate change warrior. He'll be putting pressure on the big emitters of greenhouse gases to reduce their emissions with the aim of preventing Australia being the number one victim of global warming. His political career depends on it!

BTW, have you fixed Hasbeen's NBN connection yet?

The 'moment of crisis' Sir David Attenborough
- Did he run out of toilet paper or something?

Paul, "it would be nice if you put up a reference for your claims once in a while. Unless of course that crusty old bloke down the road you rely on to debunk climate change science"

No Paul, it is you claiming some crusty old bloke called Attenborough as an authority.

I just received a video of rubbish disposal in India where truck after truck simply dumps rubbish into a river !
I imagine some of it will swirl around the seven seas for years & breaks down to eventually enter the food chain.
Would Greta please jump up & tell those Indians "How dare you " ?
I'm sure with an audience of a billion people she'd get some listeners.
How many children is she planning for herself ? Isn't it time the focus of Climate change should change to pollution because pollution is the direct result of overpopulation !

I truly hope that little smart arse, know nothing, sick and twisted kid, NEVER reproduces.
The sooner she gets institutionalised, the better for ALL OF US!
Now as for Sir David, what's is face, I care no more for what he says or ever has said than I do for anyone who dares to profit at the expense of others.
He is just another sad puppet like that useless Swedish maggot, and the sooner he gets put away as well, the better.
Now for some current and real information, actually worth hearing/seeing, I submit the following, hot off the internet;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMF9aMI-9ek

The alarmists worst nightmares are now coming in thick and fast.
If they can't see that this whole thing is a con, then it means they don't want to see it.
That's OK, there refuting the truth, won't change the truth.
It's a shame that, once more we won't be able to rub their faces in it, as it becomes more and obvious, that CC is a con.

simple fact that as soon as you deny your Creator and accept a hopelessly flawed fantasy such as evolution then perverting science becomes easy. The dumb something from nothing faith theory opened the door to the dumber 'we can change the climate theory/scam'. Sir David might win applause by true deniers and make heaps of money pushing his lies but could not possibly impress anyone interested in truth and true science.

Hans Hass was ahead of ol' Sir Dave by a good 30 years and, he recognised the "real" danger !
Over-population !

Individual,

No, not at all:

http://ourworldindata.org/search?q=population

The world is about to reach 'peak child'. Perhaps within our lifetimes (yours and mine), most of the world will reach zero population growth BUT population will still grow for a bit longer, due to people living longer - i.e. reductions in mortality.

On current trends, which are fairly well predicted, world population will reach a maximum by about 2090-2100, and decline very slowly thereafter. The world will get older, but healthier.

If Africa is able to develop economically more quickly, all this will happen sooner.

Joe

Loudmouth2,
I'm somewhat buoyed by that, perhaps the good old Dr. Prof. Hass's letter did make the rounds after all !

Individual,

On average, women these days get about twice as many years' education as forty-odd years ago - that's what cuts down the fertility rate. Medical improvements have cut infant mortality around the world and that also - strange as it may sound - cuts down on the fertility rate.

And so on: the articles on that web-site cover pretty much any population issue you may have interest in.

Joe

women these days get about twice as many years' education as forty-odd years ago
Loudmouth2,
There's a lot of educating still to be done on whole cultures world-wide not just a handful of Western-privileged who had early access to such enlightenment ! This takes time which we're critically short of at this stage of affairs. Just think of the countless indoctrinated men who, both educated & uneducated & heavily blinded by backward cultures, have power over their women ! I'm talking about 2020 here not two hundred years ago.

Indy, sorry, but what's your point?

what's your point?
Loudmouth2,
The point is that millions more women need to get on board to give the Planet a chance to recover ! Read 'Letter to the women of the world' by Hans Hass.

Indy, I'm not quite following.
If you are suggesting men should somehow not have more power than women, you would be challenging nature.
So as I can't see any discernible point, I must have missed the lead up to this comment or point you are trying to make.
Why are women supposed to get on board with what?

The 93 year old can say anything he wants to; he will be long dead before his silliness is proved wrong. The old goat will never suffer the embarassment he deserves.

Individual,

A pension system does wonders for the reduction in the birth-rate - parents know they won't have to have children, or at least so many, to support them when they are too old to work.

Improvements in health systems does something similar - it cuts down the number of children people think they may need to survive beyond working age.

More education for women means that they have more skills, more employment opportunities, more choices, and don't have to get married off young - they can postpone marriage, having children - and have fewer children as well.

From those charts and graphs, you can see how much things have changed for women (the crucial factor in population growth, after all) since, say, 1950, and how much they can reasonably be expected to change in the next fifty years.

And you may notice that none of these change-factors need any sort of compulsion or penalising of anybody. Take note.

Joe

Anyone else out there who doesn't get it ?

Indy, sorry, but seriously, I'm not trying to be awkward, I am not getting your point.
I can only ask, if you could clarify for me, because I am wanting to understand the topic in question.
Thanks.

ALTRAV,
Here is an explanation !

https://divermag.com/letter-to-the-women-of-the-world-by-hans-hass/

Attenborough unfortunately links death of Polar bears with climate Change, instead of the facts. The bears were not starving as he claimed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rkv-ItznBE&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2VF-k1xa3CG7XTkLShTx3QmSKGrpXopGSlCN4V22sJEEboQVAPrC_RvmY

From NASA report on Antarctica: "A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.

The research challenges the conclusions of other studies, including the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) 2013 report, which says that Antarctica is overall losing land ice.

According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008."
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses

Indy, thanks for that.
I'm glad I asked, and now having read it I find I have been of the same mind for many years.
I have written on OLO before about the stats of having one, two or three, children, and the effects each has/will have on future generations.
I remember saying that at one child per couple we would see a reduction in population world wide immediately.
With two children there would be little to show for it and any decline in population would take far too long and I doubt would be of any real effect in real terms.
Having three children would only feed the overpopulation problem and keep it going at an exponential rate.
So given that one child is the short term or quickest solution, it would seem the obvious solution, to curb the overpopulation problem.
Unfortunately, good luck trying to sell the idea to third world countries and it's people.
Let's face it, Europeans are not the problem, in fact they are reproducing less and less with each generation.
Unlike other countries, who by virtue of religion or beliefs are reproducing at an alarming rate.
We in the western culture are hypocrites for facilitating the third world.
Nature dictates that if the people are starving to death, children and adults, we should not interfere.
I know this sounds callous to all you jelly brains, but if you stop thinking subjectively and instead think objectively, you too will reason that if a country cannot feed itself, it has too many people, and if left to their own devices and resources, they would die back to a number which can be sustained by their own means.
So we are doing them a dis-service by sending aid or money, it is of no use and an absolutely ridiculous act of futility.

good luck trying to sell the idea to third world countries and it's people.
ALTRAV,
I'm glad you read it because I have put this link up a dozen or more times without any feedback. Some OLO'ers post purely for one-upmanship rather than a genuine interest in finding solutions to problems.
Your sentence above IS the real challenge for Mankind's survival. I believe that misplaced compassion is exaggerating suffering & misery through overpopulation. First of all, foreign aid must not be in money, full stop ! Money gets misappropriated via "Administration Costs" & only very little goes towards actual aid. The recent donations to Bushfire here actually attracted some publicity to that effect.
Foreign & domestic aid has to be via commodities, materials, tools & food manufactured & produced by Australians for people on the ground to use. Not for shonky bureaucrats to syphon off. It will not only cost less but will also boost local industry, employment & social cohesiveness. Countries which presently receive foreign aid will benefit more as people would be busy working instead of lounging around & breeding. This is a matter for the UN to prevent backdoor money streaming in from China for example. I think the reason things are out of hand in that regard is because the UN is saturated with corrupt people who need to be brought before an international Court. This could be achieved with an International force comprising of personnel from EVERY Nation !

Indy, even though you are right, it will never happen, because slime and scum somehow head straight for either power or money or both.
The UN is the ultimate example.
On the subject of aid to third world or troubled countries, I have been frustrated that they have not "got off their own arses" to help themselves.
What I see is a lot of people, both male and females, seemingly "doing" very little in the course of their average day.
I am reminded of the man and the fish, it went something like 'give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and he will never go hungry again'.
In the past, whenever this topic arose, I have said, don't send money, send teachers, tools and so on so they can learn to plant and grow their own food.
Now I have since found that the corruption is rife in these poorer countries, and when aid is sent in the form of goods, they are immediately appropriated by the criminals and leaders of the country so as to line their own pockets and nothing changes for the locals.
So it is, unfortunately, that if the people don't unite to rid themselves of these scum and slime, they will never rise from the situation they are in today.
Like many solutions, this one is just as hard.
Firstly the people have to identify the scum-bags, at whatever level.
Secondly they must be brave enough, and I think they can be especially when the survival and prosperity of themselves and their families are at stake, brave enough to attack and kill these scum-bags, thereby doing several important functions.
Firstly ridding themselves of the scum-bags and any further threats, secondly it will send a message to the next lot of hopeful scum-bags, that if you dare come near us we will kill you.
This may not deter them, but the people have to remain strong and resolute and committed to this cause, because eventually after much blood has been shed, it will be all worthwhile.

Dear Josephus,

And this is from a more up to date study from the same organisation, NASA;

“A new NASA-led study has determined that an increase in snowfall accumulation over Antarctica during the 20th century mitigated sea level rise by 0.4 inches. However, Antarctica’s additional ice mass gained from snowfall makes up for just about a third of its current ice loss.”

http://climate.nasa.gov/news/2836/antarcticas-contribution-to-sea-level-rise-was-mitigated-by-snowfall/

SR, I think you may be a little late if you are still trying to sell the idea that mankind is responsible for GW or CC.
Whatever is happening to the planet is beyond our control.
We can only stand by and watch it happen.
All this stuff, info, data from NASA or anywhere else for that matter, is only for the sake of record, we can say we were on earth when some major world event happened, that's all.
We can affect localised areas of the planet, but we definitely CANNOT affect the WHOLE planet.
No-one can, we are just not that good.
As I said before, if GOD created heaven and earth, then only he or his deputy might be able to do something, otherwise this is what it is.
I suggest, if people are not happy with what is going on they are welcome to get off at any time.
Personally I prefer to see the ride through to my end of days, it won't make any difference to anything anyway, the planet will still revolve around the sun.
The sun will still rise in the East and set in the West, it will still rain, sometimes stormy, it will still snow, over time it will get hot and then cold, in other words, life WILL go on, long after we are gone.
So whether the oceans have risen .4 of an inch today, it's highly likely they will reduce by .4 of an inch at some other time, and then possibly even more at a time further along in the future.
But one thing is constant and it always has been and always will be; the planet is not in any danger from the human race.
It has a much greater chance of being affected by the sun, or a huge meteorite the size of our planet.
Now there is something you should be concerned about, not CO2 or GW or CC.
They are all natural events and elements that make up this world, end of!

Arctic sea Ice growing.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/12/10/arctic-sea-ice-is-growing-faster-than-before-but-theres-a-catch/#4727dbef1ef4

Josephus, you know what?
Enough.
One minute we are heading for a disaster, then all of a sudden, NO WAIT, it's OK.
Then someone else says something, then OH, er we got that wrong but this is right, then some time later, OH er well I'm not sure but the data we have indicated that this would happen.
And it DIDN'T!
Again and again, personally I'm sick of these scum-bags and their incessant scamming.
It's no different, only on a grand scale than these bastards who target old people, well anyone for that matter, and fleece them of millions of dollars, leaving them destitute and penniless, where before they were comfortable in retirement not being a burden on society and living the lifestyle they were accustomed to.
Anyway this forms part of my hatred for liars, scammers, thieves and just filth in general.

On the subject of aid to third world or troubled countries,
ALTRAV,
I wonder if there was a way to stop our Govt from sending foreign aid money ? How much are they sending to our own natural/bureaucratic policy disaster victims ?
How could such an anti Money Foreign Aid policy be challenged & changed here ? Would it be a good weapon for an opposition party ?
All I want to see is average Australians earning a decent living instead of sending literally billions out of this country for nothing in return but hordes of faux refugees !
Spending the aid money on manufacturing aid goods here would be a total win, win all around.
How would the Leftists feel about such a policy ? Paul1405, SteeleRedux et al please offer your views on foreign aid.

Dear Josephus,

Go read you bloody article mate. It is the rate of growth after a summer minimum which is increasing.

It goes on to say;

"Temperatures in the Arctic have warmed much faster than temperatures in tropical locations. The doubled rate of warming has led to increasingly smaller sea ice extents during Arctic summer months and an overall reduction in sea ice."

How on earth do you think this helps your case?

"Temperatures in the Arctic have warmed
SteeleRedux,
Only a couple of days ago I was watching a "Deadly Pole to Pole" episode where Steve Backshall
described more ice covering the Arctic Sea than usual which made it very difficult for Beluga Whales !

"Authorities in the Kazakhstan capital of Nur-Sultan have declared a state of emergency after a week-long winter storm continues to pummel the city with strong winds and heavy snow.
Deputy Minister of Interior of Kazakhstan, Yuri Ilyin, declared the emergency over the weekend.
Since January 23, a total of 645 people have required rescuing from the snowstorms and accompanying drifts".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmnS9ZfEjpI&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3ZcI6lICrWN1kD1ke7khJuJGvfvg21-bEZRHYaUQxNX2jsubaNKuQvWzE

All the snow has gone from Global warming, this must be white foam put there by Climate deniers. Ha

I think that the major seasons will be more extreme from now on !

Dear individual,

Here is the summary for this December.

“Arctic sea ice extent for November 2019 ended up at second lowest in the 41-year satellite record. Regionally, extent remains well below average in the Chukchi Sea, Hudson Bay, and Davis Strait.

At the end of November and through the first week of December, daily extent was tracking third lowest in the satellite record, behind 2006 and 2016. Average ice extent for the month, however, finished second lowest in the passive microwave satellite record at 9.33 million square kilometers (3.60 million square miles). This was 670,000 square kilometers (259,000 square miles) above the 2016 record low for the month and 1.37 million square kilometers (529,000 square miles) below the 1981 to 2010 average. Regionally, extent remains well below average in the Chukchi Sea, as well as in Hudson Bay and Davis Strait. Extent is also below average in the Barents Sea, but not as pronounced as has been observed in recent years. Ice now extends to the shore along most of the Russian Arctic and along the coast of the Beaufort Sea. Extent is near average in the East Greenland Sea.”

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2019/12/

The Pole to Pole series was shot in 2013-14.

Here is a spreadsheet of monthly totals since 1979.

ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/NOAA/G02135/seaice_analysis/Sea_Ice_Index_Monthly_Data_by_Year_G02135_v3.0.xlsx

Here is an interactive graph of the Sea Ice Extent where you can compare year to year statistics. Click on 2013 and 2014.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/

As you can see those two year's figures for ice extent were below the long term average rather than over it.

Now as Steve Backshall says wind plays a big factor in how free that particular opening from ice. This is amply illustrated by the fact he had to walk his kayak back to shore after initially paddling out. Also as this was a mouth to a river the water flows would have had an impact.

Finally Somerset Island is not in the Arctic Sea as there is no such thing. It isn't regarded as being in the Arctic Ocean either but rather the Canadian Archipelago.

Dear Josephus,

Did you really just pick the second coldest capital city in the world to make your point to try and rubbish global warming?

That my friend is the very definition of idiocy.

“Nur-Sultan (Astana) is the second-coldest national capital in the world after Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia, a position formerly held by Canada's capital, Ottawa, until Nur-Sultan (Astana) attained capital city status in 1997. Nur-Sultan (Astana) has an extreme continental climate with warm summers (featuring occasional brief rain showers) and long, very cold, dry winters. Summer temperatures occasionally reach +35 °C (95 °F) while -30 to -35 °C (-22 to -31 °F) is not unusual between mid-December and early March. Typically, the city's river is frozen over between the second week of November and the beginning of April. Nur-Sultan (Astana) has a well-deserved reputation among Kazakhs for its frequent high winds, the effects of which are felt particularly strongly on the fast-developing but relatively exposed Left Bank area of the city.
Wikipedia

This is worth repeating;

“Summer temperatures occasionally reach +35 °C (95 °F) while -30 to -35 °C (-22 to -31 °F) is not unusual between mid-December and early March.”

So what were the temperatures since the 24th? Well during the worst of the snow it got down to -15C. After the snow had passed there was a low of -30C which as stated is not unusual.
http://www.timeanddate.com/weather/kazakstan/astana/historic

So mate, what on earth is your point?

I find all these facts and references interesting, if I thought there was a gainful reason to discuss or reference them.
I thought all the hoo-haa was about GW and CC.
We have concluded, long ago that there is a likelihood of this being the case, due to, again , having concluded that the planet lives by cycles.
The heating/cooling cycles are just one example.
No all this info and facts and historical references to weather and climate, are in fact irrelevant.
At best they may be of interest for those who are climate spotters, as in the cases of aircraft and train spotters.
But it has no relevance to the GW CC debate.
What is relevant is the accusation that we humans have in some way aggrieved the earth because of our lifestyle and social and business demands.
This has also been refuted many times on the basis that humanity and it's lifestyle have proven to be insignificant when compared to something the size of the earth.
We really must focus on the truth behind all this hoo-haa, and basically the reality is that we are not guilty of any wrong doing and we do not/must not change our way of life or lifestyle, purely because some crazed, greedy, selfish, evil con-men have set us on another path of panic and dependency on the execution and success of their plans, in which we are merely puppets and pawns.
Well I for one am not a puppet or a pawn, I am intelligent and aware enough to be outside all this, looking in, and it's quite entertaining, to say the least.
As all the times before, this will pass and those of us with a little more smarts will, as usual, look back and say, it happened again, and we came off the biggest losers as we count our losses.

it happened again, and we came off the biggest losers as we count our losses.
ALTRAV,
Well summed up !

Just saw on TV that one of Australia's prime contributions to air/noise pollution is in full swing at Bathurst again !
isn't there another, less polluting way to amuse suburbians ?