NSW has lost near one thousand homes, in this latest fire storm-filled summer.
We lost others, some deliberately started, at the start of Summer, in fact it started when winter did.
Homes, over a dozen, when up after a woman did just that, then left it to burn
Dry drought, even the charge the greens did it had some impact.
Tree huggers, mostly housewives, do try to stop winter burns, gee they need locking up
Over 100 fires burning, at one time, NSW [ not only] has been in it and suffering.
BUT our biggest, still out of control, even with a cooler few days, fire? figher fighters on the worse day! started a massive back burm, drip torch in hand, that today has claimed over half of the half-million Hectares it has burned so far.
And still burning.
Leave the climate change tree huggers hero,s out of it.
Why would anyone, on such a day mid such a danger *deliberately, start a fire*?
Once, years ago, on a deliberately started [by fire bug] fire, a local deputy fire Captain, did a drip line burn.
Behind my crew! leaving us uniformed till near too late, and caught between the main fire and? the drip line one!
I question again, why light any fire on such a day, is fight fire with fire some times insane?

is fight fire with fire some times insane?
Belly,
In the driest time of year it is absolute insanity but hey, that's the people with the say in goings-on !
I fail to comprehend the mentality of those opposing cold burns while there is still plenty of moisture in the environment.

Belly,

I would have thought that, if there is the threat of a drought (say, a second season which looks like being dry), then parks staff get moving on cool-burning or back-burning of national parks in cool weather; and throughout the year, remove as much undergrowth, dead trees, lantana, broom, and other weeds, as possible, especially all that near the roadways, to keep the fuel load as low as possible.

Of course, these would be huge and difficult jobs, there are plenty of national parks and many (if not most) with areas very difficult to get to. That's why they've been designated national parks. So of course, the number of staff who are actually working in the field should be massively increased, to do this work, year-round. Perhaps all of the bureaucrats could do a token stint, say a week, out in the field.

Perhap even they can become heroes.

Cheers,

Joe

Both posters, thanks, yes first know this, last winter was too dry to do any burning.
The one before not much better.
Some times it is just too wet to burn.
And no workers propaganda, just the truth, like my once Roads Authority, NSW Forests, and Parks are less than half the size they had been
More than half, the once very best, firefighters cold burn teams are gone.
Complex issue.
But in the middle of last winter, a woman set fire to her rubbish heap and went into town.
Her fire took near two weeks to put out, and 13 homes.
Dry.
We know, constantly informed, some 100 fires have been started by firebugs, kids given a talking to, nothing else.
Now in the middle of that week, the one that saw records broken one day, then again the next
RFS personnel, after planning! started a back burn, it jumped the Bells line of road,
It is now our state's single biggest fire, maybe ever.
No joy in saying, less in knowing it is truth, I worked in 5 brigades, never worked in one that did not contain? a firebug!
At the end of our summer [mid to end of Autum] yet again.
We will have an inquiry, AGAIN its results will not be put in place.
But two outcomes you can back on, make it four.
1 controlled winter burns, to be done at every chance.
2 monitor back burns.
3 no walk away without pain for any firebug [maybe murderer]
4 True professionalism in fire management, not a local well mmeaning Captain overdoing it with a drip torch

Belly,

What I'm trying tease out is how to keep national parks as safe as possible to avoid bushfires as much as possible, by clearing out weeds and excessive undergrowth and dead branches, etc. and as much as possible along roadways. And yes, when it's possible, cool-burn, back-burn, etc.

So a two-pronged tactic, of cool-burning when it's possible and clearing work, all year round, when it's not, especially along roadways.

Individual's insistence on the value of some sort of National service could make much sense here for clearing teams.

Joe

First of all we need to clear all trees back far enough from roads, that they can't be burnt off & fall across the road, trapping people trying to drive away from fires.

Then we could make the unemployed useful by having them put in at least one week a month clearing national parks.

Then we could return half the national parks to national producing Forrest, making them useful, & having much better management than they are likely to get as national parks.

A National Service would be the right thing now for readiness for the next season. They could do cold burns before the next dry.

Loudmouth I share your view, all of it.
Hasbeen mostly yours too, more later.
Indy, come halfway with me.
Reintroduce pork-barreling.
Mostly but not near all, used in Queensland, during an emergency it employed farmers battling flood of fire or just low prices.
It kept the local economy moving.
Reform unemployment benefits give true pay for working for the dole, National service with a basic plan to get such things done.
Next much harder but much needed, stop the do not burn ever mob with firm new laws demanding, property owners highlighting parks and forests must burn in colder weather.
We some times, think more in terms of costs than the cost of not doing it.
Put an end to uniformed activists harming our bush by demanding it be left until the next firestorm kills it again.
Hasbeen have seen mid forest homes constructed to be in the middle of the bush.
Road in and out narrow twisting, bush-covered, in truth? oven waiting to bake those living in them.
Surely we can make laws like Victoria did post black friday?. and see they are policed.

Thanks to those who contributed, thread never made it but will after the coming inquiry.
More than likely it is my fault, not the subjects
Frankly unsure my lack of popularity is worth me sticking around
Will take a spell
Yes, we all do it, post threads that are not a subject most want to talk about.
Too my writing is again under attack
I Know it is not up to standard.
Know, however, I have never stopped trying to improve it, and never will
Too, sad but true, as I time and again, find I am writing three letters in advance of the one I want too? [dyslexia] I know I can never ever be as sharp as some demand.
Read my first posts! with help from some here, I have improved.
YES! My views! on just about every subject, are not the REQUIRED ONES! have met GY know he is a great bloke, too he holds very very different views than me.
Mate, please consider your reasons for the OUTSTANDING action you took in starting this great place.
You surely NEVER wanted it to shrink to its current numbers? to welcome a bitter old man culture and harass those dreadful people like me?
My regards all, I may pop back in a week or so, much thought needed
Openly put this thought
MODERATION is needed to enforce the rules of the site, not dump anyone but remind everyone, it is not a place some are free to endlessly insult
That moderator should be independent and not an existing poster
my true regards

are free to endlessly insult
Belly,
It's what you are doing !

Hi Belly,

I hope you haven't contracted the new disease :) - that to disagree is to hate; that to disagree is to insult; that disagreement therefore should be banned.

Leave that authoritarian stuff to the woke. You and I are far above that, maybe we're just too old for it :)

Happy New Year, mate,

Joe

Loudmouth2,
Your last post is one of sillier ones, hope you improve next year. The only hate due to disagreement comes from the indoctrinated, not from the thinkers !

Individual,

Well, that's what I meant, if you read it more carefully :)

Joe

Loudmouth2,
Well, ok I"m lost on that one, there's something I don't get. I'll leave it at that.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Publications_Archive/CIB/cib0203/03Cib08

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Publications_Archive/CIB/cib0203/03Cib08

Brilliant article, nearly twenty years old.

Thanks, Individual.

Come to think of it, how exactly does an increase of say 2-5 or so degrees in temperature increase the risk & ferocity of fires ? For a flame to ignite it requires a much higher temperature than a few degrees I'd have thought ?
Climate change has apparently increased by 2 or so degrees so, is that really the cause of all the fires ? In my view it's the amount of fuel that is accumulating due the fire bans much too early in every season is cause #1. The insanity of building under & next to trees is a close second. My neighbours & I did a burn not long after the rains had finished & now there's no dry undergrowth & a couple of fires have swept through without any problems. Further down the road they're in panic mode because of the super dry undergrowth being threatened by nearby fires.
The phenomenon of bush fires is a natural one, the amount of damage is caused by environmental 'experts".

'Bullying culture' blamed as volunteer firefighter numbers drop across Australia

Just saw this Headline, looks like the the pressure is on for vying of Hero status.

Bushfire damage could be reduced dramatically if people don't build among the trees & let the Bush burn freely every year.

NAME and SHAME. A South Coast NSW servo in the bushfire area has been caught selling 24 packs of water for $48. Seen photo on 'Facebook', put the price up 300% to cash in. DISGUSTING! They didn't give the name.

DISGUSTING!
Paul1405,
Yes, disgusting in the extreme. See if you can dig up the name & ethnicity of the operator !
These people need to be dealt with by the ATO & ACCC.

Just read a headline about residents of Cobargo giving the PM a hard time during his visit there & blamed him for not doing anything for them.
Ok, I googled Cobargo & I can see houses literally under trees. Shouldn't these people complain to their Council instead of the PM ?
I know how terrible it feels when you lose property but why on Earth keep trees so close to your home ? Go to those Environmentalists who dreamed up the regulations that you can't remove a tree from your property & ask them for compensation instead of getting stuck into the PM ?
Or, if people didn't remove trees they could have removed, ask them why they didn't ?
Will they think about the next floods & the next heat waves & act accordingly ? Me thinks not, easier to blame the bloke they expect to make sound decisions whilst having to rely on the advise of academic 'experts'.
I bet they wouldn't be against a crew from a National Service now helping them out !

The reports of people abusing the Prime Minister for their own shortcomings is typical of the psyche of Bush dwellers.
Why abuse the PM, he didn't plant the trees right up against your homes, you did ! Did you cut trees away from your homes before the fire season ?
As horrible as it is to lose everything does not warrant the behaviour. Why not abuse the leader of the opposition, weren't they in power when you built your homes among the gumtrees ?

Individual,

On the other hand, a high proportion of those who have built their homes surrounded by trees, with one road in, etc., have probably been Greens, so it's not all bad news.

If I were an insurance company, I would be sending in fire assessors BEFORE approving any policy; and build the proximity of vegetation, use of window-shields, roof-sprinklers, access, etc. into the cost of those policies.

As it is, we all are going to have to pay more for home insurance to pay for this latest catastrophe.

Joe

Joe, a gloating idiot of a fool you are! People are without homes tonight, because of bushfires. Families with children have nowhere to go, all their worldly possessions destroyed. Family mementos gone forever, kids Christmas presents destroyed. Then a smug arse old fool like you, who is most likely safe and well in your snug little hovel somewhere in South Australia, comes onto this forum with an anonymous bit of crap to throw at unfortunate people who have lost everything, and are hurting so badly.

How about you man up, get your arse down to a relief station, identify yourself first, then give the unfortunate folks there a blast of your brotherly love. Tell them they are probably Green votes and as you say; "So folks it's not all bad news, you're probably been Greens!". What a Sh!t!

A good friend in Canberra, his brother and his family on the South Coast have lost everything. I have not heard a word from my own brother in three days, he lives a little south of Nowra.

For the sake of preventing future disasters like this I hope they learn from this horrific situation.
By they I mean Councils & constituents alike & all the environmentalists among them.
Leave the Bush for the wildlife & ensure there are corridors for it during the next fire season !
The people need to ensure they have fire breaks around their properties in future.
With an extreme amount of luck, some thinking & Federal/State assistance they'll recover asap.
Now is also the time to consider establishing a National Service to do preventative cool burns so there won't be any need in future to fly in firies !
Labor or Coalition, whoever will be in Govt should not miss this opportunity ! Get behind Australians !

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2020/01/02/michael-pascoe-murdoch-climate/
Paul your post brought me back, I toop[have been reading posts]I am confronted by Loudmouths effort
Once put him right up there
You will see less of me, much less INDIVIDUAL please know, my remarks above never ever included you or Loudmouth
The drip torch is a tool firefighters use to start back burns, heroes all, BUT just yesterday one was charged [one of dozens] with starting six fires
The link will inflame most know that doubt many will read it
But no! bleeding houses are not greenies, not built under trees townships main streets have been burnt out!
In my area the tree changers scream every time a cold burn is done, they ARE CONSERVATIVE VOTERS!
And first-grade twits
The Royal Commission to come MUST see we do better
I warned months ago this was to take place it is far from over let's be honest this is a great tragic event,
regards

Hi Paul,

Thanks to your considered response to my criticism of people building timber houses surrounded by trees, at the end of long windy roads with no room to turn around, and how insurance companies may be re-adjusting their scale of fees, for all of us.

There must be periodic reduction in fuel loads, not necessarily by burning but by - if possible - removal. As well, 'mosaic clearing' - clearing of country where it is possible to do so, and fire-breaks around less accessible country, perhaps cool-burns there ? But how to break up huge national parks into manageable - and unmanageable - portions, with fire-breaks in-between ? I'm all for minimising the use of fire in such clean-ups, and it may be unavoidable in cool months in inaccessible terrain. If forests can be cleared in other ways, go for it.

And of course, allow people to remove dangerous trees from their fence-lines: what idiot dreams up these pseudo-conservation schemes ?

But on the other hand, if people want to live surrounded by trees, with huge windows so that they can see nature at work, unless they take sensible steps to protect their properties, what is everybody else supposed to do ? Presumably to pay higher insurance premiums is one.

Yes, it's bloody tragic what is happening. I have great affection for that country west and south of Sydney, from Mudgee down to Bateman's Bay. My gr-grandfather was the first white kid born in Bargo, I sent many happy hours in the Royal National Park with my nudist grand-parents, and tramped through the scrub down the Nepean around Penrith. My gr3-grandfather had a bay named after him by Macquarie on what is now Burragorang.

We've been through long droughts many times before, the rains will come again, but surely there is enough experience of them to alert NP authorities these days, when it's time to get cracking on fuel reduction ?

Joe

Joe, I responded to your piss poor comment to Individual with the contempt it deserved;

"On the other hand, a high proportion of those who have built their homes surrounded by trees, with one road in, etc., HAVE PROBABLY BEEN GREENS, SO IT'S NOT ALL BAD NEWS." (My capitals)
Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 3 January 2020 1:01:56 PM

Even Indy had the good sense to steer clear of your obnoxious crap.

"Yes, it's bloody tragic what is happening. I have great affection for that country west and south of Sydney"

Without a retraction! No you bloody don't, you have a smerky satisfaction to think some of those who lost everything were Greens, and its GOOD NEWS to you to hear they suffered such a grievous loss.

I told you what to do, have you done it?
Suck that one in sunshine! A retraction would be nice.

50 dead over a thousand homes lost but it is ok to, they built under trees
They may have been green voters so it's all ok
Even if homes 10 klm from fire front burnt down as ash flew ahead farmers without incomes beekeepers with the hundreds of bee hives its ok greens got what they deserved
Paul thank you not see much of me funny stuff happens here when I start a post
BEST KNOW THIS a casual glimpse from outside the site could do great damage.
Years ag a post posted something infamous [like this subject in a few threads] the site lost a major sponsor
We are part way in to a horrible long summer, death is no matter for insulting comments
Hasbeen has a thread naming climate change believes useful idiots, proud to be one of them proud to be proud and sad at the over two million hectares burnt out so far
Sadly aware that may double, even triple, before this is over

How many think that this summer's environmental crisis will be repeated next summer?

I do. I think we have passed through a climate change tipping point and that this is the new norm.

ScuMo and his horde of AGW denialists are telling everyone things will be alright when it rains.

What rain! Ask them three simple questions: When will it rain? Where will it rain? How much will it rain? You don't have to be too smart to work out that they can't answer the questions.

Thanks Paul,

I hope that the Greens learn something from all this disaster. Well, all of us really.

Cheers,

Joe

Paul, a once well respected and in all honest bright poster Loudmouth has lost the plot!
ignore me that is ok BUT KNOW A DAY WILL COME that holds some here to account for their words you shame your self LOUDMOUTH
RIP the dead, best wishes to the homeless and hope for rain as near 140 fires burn tonight.
The OLO I first came to would not let such words be posted hate the greens? the dead?
Mr O be aware you will continue to be insulted because your views are unwanted here

"I hope that the Greens learn something from all this disaster. Well, all of us really."

Soft soap crap Joe, Greens learn a lesson, all of us learn a lesson. A pathetic try at deflection.

Forgetting the number one culprits, the hard right politicians in power Federally and in NSW SA and Tasmania its the Coalition. In Victoria, Queensland and WA its Labor. The Greens could learn a thousands lessons, if they needed to, what would that achieve.

Those holding the reigns of power, are the ones best served by lesson learning. The fact is this disaster was not unforeseen, but the powers that be, dropped the ball, and dropped it badly. What blind sided the conservatives was their pathological belief that climate change is a non event, and should not be taken seriously.

This present disaster was never going to be totally mitigated, it was always going to be an horrendous event. What should have been done by government was they all should have heeded the warnings, and been proactive months ago if not years ago. Now they are left back peddling and reacting. Morrison is like a mad duck, looking calm and serene on top, while going hell for leather below the surface trying not to cop any of the blame. The Primers are doing the same. Nothing to see here, so they tell us!,

Joe, for what its worth, wake up, you and others like you should learn a lesson about those who run government for us the people.

Dear Belly, you said:

'Mr O be aware you will continue to be insulted because your views are unwanted here.'

Belly, you have probably noticed that I can give as good as I take. And the other side doesn't like hearing the truth about themselves which makes my task even easier.

The AGW denialists like Hasbeen, individual, Loudmouth, mhaze, Bazz and the other usual suspects who fit the 'I'm as dumb as a ScuMo' category are now on the back foot as this current environmental crisis across Australia is giving us the message that our country is the most prone to the impact of AGW even though our national level of greenhouse gas emissions is very low compared to most of the industrialised countries in the world.

Paul/Mr O I weep
To see words like those right from thread to thread blaming the greens [no mates of mine] wrongly.
Minimising the deaths, insulting them
Overlooking the tragic loss of homes
Tell me what kind of place is this? the dead voted green!
They built under trees so it is ok?
At the start of this hell on earth fire year, check it out, I OFTEN warned, this was to be our worst fire year ever
It is NOT NEAR over, look and hope, towards the possible first Cyclone forming, beg it bring an east coast low.
Yes both can hold their own but you should not have to
This useful idiot will back science before old age takes my interlect away.
And this dreadful toll, across our country, has FOREVER tilting people back to demanding climate action, no going back
May the dead rest in peace may their loved ones find strength

Belly,
don't waste your time with it, it's got no clue what it is talking about !

Dear Belly,

In retrospect, I think most people would concur that this 2019/20 Season of the Great Environmental Crisis has been a long time in the making. Caused by political inactivity to prepare Australia against the impact of AGW produced by the main culprits of fossil fuel burning, being China, the US, the EU, and India, who make up about 60% of greenhouse gas emissions, which are the root cause of Australia's climate change and drier, hotter conditions that have given rise to these firestorms.

STOP PRESS! STOP PRESS!
Has anybody seen the ad just released by ScuMo showing him as some kind of Winston Churchill leading the armed forces into the field as well as stressing how much he has contributed (without mentioning the fact that he had to give up his ScuMo's Aloha Hawaii holiday package in order to put in an appearance back home.)

OMG! What is wrong with this guy? He seems to jump from one political mistake to another. Trying to save his own political scalp I assume. Sorry pal, I'm too smart for you; you can't pull the wool over my eyes. I can see right through you.

Mr.
O yes and yes to all your post.
But not here, it remains my view too much is said here that is not needed and in fact makes a mockery out of the rules we are told to obey
Because?
Surely slanted views in a certain direction are not unwanted
Your reflection mirrors my view
In Australia at least man-made climate change is getting enough support to ensure action is taken
BUT this subject while driving that acceptance of M M C C need never have spoke so badly about the victims of such very real horror.

Belly,

I think this environmental crisis has shifted the public consensus and most Australians I think will now be beating their drums for governmental action on arresting AGW in order to stop the climate change that has resulted in the hotter drier continent that wants to constantly burst into flames.

I think ScuMo and his mates better acknowledge the burning of fossil fuels as the cause of global warming and its consequential climate change if it wants any chance of getting back in after the next election.

I think it's time to dust off my old Bob Dylan LP and play 'The Times They Are a-Changin'.

The forward motion has started on both the environment and GW as a result of this hell summer.
PM has said a Royal Commission is likely
Hope the first result is firefighters do near one hundred percent of their work in winter controlled burning.
And, in my area at least parks restart a once-great winter burn plan.
Right now? in the hands of the wrong people they have closed fire trail after fire trail, even removing pipes under them, so using them is not possible.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/nsw-bushfires-southern-highlands-town-wingello-damaged-australia-news/df6dc886-599e-4652-a324-96540cb6f4aa
Greens? doubt it, my dad inherited a home there, his extended family lived there
Middle-class retreat type place one of the tens in very real trouble
Too wet to burn one winter, too dry the next, fact
GREENS control very little in the bush not, you can bank on it, controlled
cold burning

Never easy, I like the place I like GY, no true, know he has far different politics than me, but know he started this place as a forum to talk
Now true, GY told me when we met, he and others are confronted by the way we talk to each other in the forum.
Mr Opinoion named names, I will in this last post.
See I am FORCED TO LEAVE words seen here saying the greens brought about these fires? for griefs sake! I suspect I dislike the greens more than *any poster here*
*USEFUL IDIOTS HASBEEN? GY does not believe in climate change [man made or not]* but is it ok to let moderation sleep?
Those who died lived in the bush so are greens? is that ok?
READ my welcome back month, see ise mise ttbn, m haze the dreadful ALTRAVES WORDS DIRECTED AT ME,
MODERATION simple word is unseen in OLO Forum these days best wishes SHADOW MINISTER INDIVIDUAL, PAUL, STREELREDUX, LOUDMOUTH, AND? FOXY and the tens of other refugees from a once-great site
Mr Opinion you too will be missed, on facebook, should anyone know a site with a moderator my profile is Allan Bell Coolongolook, it would be good to hear from some Kactus will now return a mate he hates me for reminding him one nation will never rule this country he will fit in well here

Stupid people are causing massive pollution which must play a part in the climate to change.
Yes, it has a severe negative impact on climate but now the climate is making people even more stupid. Those with their eyes on Australia must be laughing their heads off & rubbing their hands at the mentality of so many and, supposedly educated people here !
The sad part is that no-one can avoid being impacted by CC & stupidity.