Just brought my rainfall chart up to date. It is certainly a bit dry. Our average rainfall is 935mm in this district, but to date we have had only 390mm. The rest of December should bring about 50mm more, so we may make it to 440mm, so still under 50% of average.

Greenies are screaming Global Warming, & at a quick glance that sounds fair. But hang on a minute, try some rainfall records going back a bit.

In 1994 our driest before this year we had 453mm, just 13mm more, & in 1902 the next driest we had 459mm,just 19mm more. 1926 was 501mm, & 1915 it was 540mm. Talk about scattered rainfall.

To confuse matters for meteorologists & greenies, 2017, yes just a couple of years back we had the highest flood in living memory. Why the hell can't this weather give us what we deserve, nice consistent weather, rather than this chaos no one understands, much as they may claim differently.

'Why the hell can't this weather give us what we deserve, nice consistent weather, rather than this chaos no one understands, much as they may claim differently.'

With what we deserve? Dangerous place to go Hasbeen. Greta and her fans argue that the weather is giving us what deserve kinda like Izzy said. So is it Father God, mother earth or just chance? The science is far from settled. I know whom I believe.

Brisbane just had a huge rainstorm, 100mm in an hour, with more to come. When we get rain, we don't store it.

While Australia's population has increased since 1990 by a staggering 40%, its increase in stored water has been a piddling 3%. We don't have a water problem. We have a water management problem, which means we have politician problem.

Hasbeen I am far from a greeny, and dry? your rainfall while you talk of your district would be heaven here
30 mm in last 60 days
They got more even double that in some places near me
You and anti climate changers tell us who differ this is a drought
And it is, it follows the bad one in 1994, and another in between
Mid north coast NSW firefighters are returning water to dams that went dry during fire fighting
This is bad and they say no normal rain until February!

Yes ttbn, some small areas in Brisbane got 100mm. We got exactly 2mm.

Yes ttbn they built a new dam down this way, but did not do the research of the ground in the area. I haven't bothered following the catastrophe, it's too depressing seeing just how incompetent a government can be, but they can't make the water suitable for potable water due to something in the soil in the catchment, & there is very little agriculture below the dam to use that water.

I guess at some time they will spend a fortune pumping the water to cool a power house.

Belly sometimes you are so insular. We got the same 30mm in July August & September, 92 days I believe, & a great 7mm in November.

Meanwhile please read & absorb my post. Then explain how you get recent climate change from the second lowest rainfall being in 1902. They hadn't even invented SUVs then, & we mined stuff all coal.

Hasbeen I read your posts, all of them, sometimes in threads I will not post in, because of a lack of civility
Yes you can produce such numbers
And yes they are true
But if I post about each record broken, the forecast next week may bring the hottest day in our countrys history?
If we record the truth, each new record breaks one usually only two or three years old?
Sorry you too are suffering this drought, sorry government of both colors have not had the brains to START A CENTURY LONG pump treated sewage inland turn storm water inland , stop letting sons of unwed parents who are not even farmers trading in our water we are in trouble

Considering the origins of the Sahara Desert will keep climate change panic-merchants controlled: Or should, one would think.
However, with climate change fanatics, encouraging panic is the crude tool of choice!

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science/sahara-millions-years-older-thought-180952735/

And snow in the Sahara, December 2016. Pictures.

http://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/sahara-snow/index.html

Dan.

Belly,

Hottest day ever in Australia (from Dr Google):

"2 January 1960

"The highest maximum temperature was recorded as 50.7 °C (123.3 °F) at Oodnadatta on 2 January 1960, which is the highest official temperature recorded in Australia."

50.7 degrees Celsius. Can we beat that, do you reckon ?

Joe

Hasbeen,

It's a bit like that where I live. The media raves about all the rain we got, when I didn't get enough to wet my glasses; which brings us back to incompetent reporting. We have only the media's word to go on.

However, I'm sticking to the idea that there is no water shortage, just political incompetence and management shortage. How many years do we need to experience what happens in Australia - lots of rain when we can't use it all, and very little when we need it - before the useless bastards we vote for work out what to do.

PS,

The useless bastards will probably never do anything. Even Morrison has now decided that current conditions - no different from conditions prevailing for a couple of centuries - might be caused by climate change! He is unlikely to have fallen for the climate catastrophists' lies, so it must be that he feels that there are more votes in bullshite than there are in common sense, making hay while the sun shines, and storing water when it is available.

Here is what I think is an excellent summary of the situation in Australia as far as appallingly bad politicians go:

"We live in an era of not just cynicism about the political class but, for many, of genuine hatred – of politicians who insist on solving problems we don’t have, who interfere in our lives, who tax us to the max only to squander our money on idiot schemes, who speak in talking points and gobbledegook, who talk about and, alas, act upon, issues that concern no one, who sell off our assets to foreign powers, who are tethered to ideologies when what we need is “club sensible” policies, and, above all , who don’t do what they say they will." (Paul Collits, Quadrant Online, 12/12/19).

The problem is practically.

Yes some areas of Brisbane got 4 inches of rain in a little over an hour last night. That means every acre received over 100,000 gallons of water in about an hour. An hour later of course it was gone out to sea.

If anyone has any idea of how that water could have been captured, & pumped inland in the hour it was available, please tell us here. I can't see any way, without bulldozing thousands of houses, & making a big chunk of Brisbane a large dam.

We could of course build dozens of dams on all the rivers that run out of the southern boarder ranges. That would capture a huge amount of water. Great idea, if you can get it past the greenies. Of course a lot of peoples farms, some of our most productive, are going to have to go under water to do that.

We get plenty of water inland, but like that rain in Brisbane, we can't retain it. To my mind the answer is lots & lots of dams, both large & small. We need to capture as much as possible as it runs by.

Yes there is a lot we should do about water security, & it all starts with the point we have always had droughts, & the global warming theory is another red herring interfering with taking suitable action, rather than waste money on windmills.

Loudmouth I quoted the media this day and as I look at two radar sites three times a day they all,, told us the hottest day ever is likely to be this week
Because of very hot inland being pushed towards us
Hasbeen yep true you however understand if your chain of dams [always supported the idea] existed, SOME storm water would be saved
As is true for SOME river water highlighting times of flood
Had many jobs as a young bloke, once controlled eleven pumps working 24 hour days every day,removing water from a power house water tunnel under construction
A long time ago? that power station has gone after servings its time
But I pumped it back in to the sea
If that first dam was just 500 meters away?
We can do better we must do better or give our inland to Israelis and let them show us how it is done

There was a time in NSW when three men could deliver thousands of gallons of water to drought-affected towns.

How?

By train,(Driver, Fireman and Guard) but the Government, in its wisdom, scrapped/sold off the rail water tankers and they are no more except for a few heritage rail survivors.
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/heritageapp/HeritageItemImage.aspx?ID=4807007#ad-image-1

All is not lost however as private enterprise is stepping into the breach.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-08/water-train-saves-mine-and-jobs-in-lithgow/11392468

I wonder why we are not hearing more about this?
Grain rail trucks should be well suited to carrying water fit for human consumption.

We will hear about it ise mise by summer's end
You brought back memories grand mum lived on 11 acres in Bargo, we kids went there on holidays
Uncles[she had 13 kids] showed us a trick they did as kids, giving cheek to train drivers who chucked coal at them [good firewood and they knew why kids did it
Even cocka doodle doo on the horn as they got near
miss steam trains miss the water refill tank

I wonder if the fools blaming Morrison for the weather are thanking him now for the 75mm in 30 minutes on the Gold Coast. Obviously no logic at all to the dumbed down people who think the pm can control the weather.

The science is settled but I see little sense in the same inane arguments about it. We are all going to suffer to one extent or another before the situation is resolved, and only fools now doubt.

The structure of the economy has to change such that we are better able to adapt.

In that regard, australia is not a free market economy. It is a contrivance. If indeed there are 750,000 people unemployed (not including the under employed) and only 250,000 jobs, then that in effect is by design.

Aust has a huge gdp and only 25million people to look after.

To that pool of 500,000++ we must add those who will lose their jobs on account of the closure of polluting industries.

thus, logically speaking, there are a few crucial conversations that we need to have:

1. What new industries and jobs can we bring on line to provide living wages for all these people.

2. If there is no significant inflow of foreign capital, then if some people are to get more, then other people must get less.

For me, wages cannot keep going up but rather expenses must be reduced such that everyone has more left over from what they already get paid which is to say we must get more bang for a buck.

One way to effect that is to hybridise the economy. Some parts nationalised, some parts socialised and other parts purely free market.

Regard and primacy must be given once again to micro-economics and the smallest unit must be protected and enshrined and a mathematical equilibrium be built on top of it.

Universal legal .. all lawyers as mere functionaries and not an end unto themselves are to be put on legal aid. Universal Medical, tooth cleaners, vets, the lot onto medicare.

What we need from the media in part, is not the same old tired faces with no new ideas who do little other than tinker around the edges and shuffle the deck chairs around a bit but clear thinking people with big new ideas for both revolutionary and evolutionary change.

And it's going to get a lot drier when Australia's politicians, bureaucrats and business leaders start selling off more of the country's water resources to Chinese interests.

Did you know that China uses 1600 kg of Australian water to grow 1 kg of Chinese cotton. That cotton is sent to China where it is converted to clothing which is then sold in Australia for an enormous profit.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Australian society will handle things when it becomes really dry and we have a water crisis. Should make for a fascinating study.

rEPRUSu,with over 120 peer reviewed scientific papers published in the last 2 years proving that CO2 is a very minor bit player in global temperature I think your claim that the science is settled is somewhat premature. As with all; claims to authority like yours, you show no understanding of the true effect of CO2.

If we just stopped wasting money on windmills & solar panels, & the subsidies they attract to appease fools like you, the country & it's people would be a lot better off.

It would help if we could get rid of the useful idiots helping push the scam.

Good news from here. Not as good as Brisbanes 4 inches or the Gold coasts 5 inches today, a little thunder storm spun up beside us, & dropped 40mm here before passing. This is by far the best we have had since February. Unfortunately our good luck did not spread far. Most of the district got less than 10mm, but it will have put some back in empty water tanks

Greta Thunberg Time's Person Of The Year at 16 years old. What an achievement!

Just about every teenager around the world is now waiting for the day when they can vote so that they can help get rid of the climate witches out of politics. And I'll be alive to see it happen.

The electorate will soon be doing to the ScuMos and the Barnaby Joyces of the world what the Warringah voters did to Tony Abbott at the last election.

Greta Thunberg crossed the ocean by yacht, I'm surprised that she didn't walk.

We shouldn't be too harsh on Barnaby Joyce. He is to Hasbeen, mhaze, individual, Loudmouth and Bazz what Greta Thunberg is to people around the world who want the save the environment. They look upon him as a god.

Thumberg does actually have a use.

The quickest way to find a dill is to see if they admire the little twit.

Hasbeen,

I reckon it's people like you who would have stood in line to set fire to Joan of Arc.

The introduction of Greta Thunberg onto the scene is something that you and all the other climate witches of the world definitely did not see happening.

In some ways she is like the coming of Christ: the start of a universal moment to change the world. The days of people like you climate witches are numbered. She's the signal that you've lost the battle to destroy the environment with your endless burning of fossil fuels.

Hasbeen good morning now do not get angry just think for a while, you often, call people who believe in man made climate change unpleasant things
I know even our host is a not believer in man made climate change
I often do the following, read my words before posting, often asking myself is that right
And I often regret something I posted
Do you do that
SMH this day, yesterday too,moving in from the west and central Australia, is a heat wave, 40 plus in Perth the last two days
That story says we may very well, even likely, see the temperature reach low 50s and'
Hottest Day on record
Why are we weekly monthly annually being told new records for heat cold storms are being made in the last ten years
Heard about the Queensland storms? three inches in an hour
My lawn, the toughest grass I could find, is dead, not just dead it would burn in a fire, my self grown forest is inches deep in dry dead leaves it may burn, fairdinkum you may read about my home burning down, forest is not close but dead dry grass is, it is indeed old mate dry

Dear Belly,

I think the coming of Greta Thunberg and the social movement rising in her wake will be one of the great turning points in human history. It is all about saving the environment from the climate witches so that you and many others can grow their gardens and people in Sydney can have fresh water to drink and people across Australia will not lose their homes in fireballs.

Only problem is I think it is all too late. Even if we completely stopped using fossil fuels today the temperatures would still keep rising. Some have predicted it would keep rising until 2080 before levelling out. In other words, stopping AGW now will not get rid of the environmental crisis we have on our hands until a very long time. It is a problem for little Greta Thunberg's grandchildrens' generation. And I would hate to be part of it.

At least by then there won't be any more climate witches in the world.

Greta Thunberg?

"We live in an age where Greta Thunberg can be named person of the year for doing nothing more than allowing herself to be the face of protest, bringing teenage hyperventilation to what should be a rational and scientific debate". (Chris Kenny, The Australian).

Very polite and subdued comments about a spoilt brat, with 16 years of life experience.

ttbn,

There's no further need for scientific debate on AGW and its consequential climate change. The verdict is in and AGW is real and we are now witnessing the fury of unpredictable climate change.

Greta Thunberg is here to stay and the social movement following in her wake will change the world as we know it and get rid of all of the climate witches like you, Chris Kenny, ScuMo, etc. ............. And good riddance to the lot of you!

MrO you will not convince some
Greta best serves those her age, the future, as you can see here the past best serves nothing much
Protesters sitting on roads do as much harm as good
EG greens road trip before the election, went down like a lead balloon
Nevertheless it is dry and records are being broken

Dear Belly,

It's interesting to see how ScuMo and his bunch are now recognising climate change as real because it is politically correct to do so but they refuse to go as far as recognising it is caused by anthropogenic global warming. They truly are the climate witches of the 21st century.

O,

I said was going to ignore you, but given your penchant for making a fool of yourself you are too good a target to give up.

All your claimed degrees don't seemed to have helped you find your way around a dictionary. A witch, usually a female, is one who practises black magic or sorcery.

So, if witches abound here, they are people who preach C02/AGW hysteria and scare mongering. (There is no science, merely consensus). You are talking about yourself when you talk about witches. And, don't you just love talking about yourself! Keep it up. You are the best example of how silly the voodoo surrounding man-made climate change/warming is.

"In some ways she is like the coming of Christ..." but she hasn't walked on the water yet.

The yacht trip was typical, she didn't travel by jet, thus "saving" the planet by her refusal to use fossil fuel to get where she was going but her father and another bloke jetted to the US to help crew the yacht; where was the big saving in fossil fuel?

Still, the Days of Sail may return.
http://theconversation.com/greta-thunberg-made-it-to-new-york-emissions-free-but-the-ocean-doesnt-yet-hold-the-key-to-low-carbon-travel-122518

Every little bit helps, maybe I should get rid of the open fire for next winter and leave the fallen timber to burn in the next season's bushfires

ALTRAV,

It's as good to see you back as it was good to see the disappearance of a certain other person. Given our last election, Donald Trump, and now the demolition of the Red Wall in Britain, things are looking up. I never thought that I would see the headline "Tories have now become 'the party of the working class'", but there it was this morning.

The pendulum is swinging back. The best advocates for the return of centre right politics are the loud mouth Lefties, who live on an entirely different plane from the rest of us. The more they talk, the worse they look

The reason for damage to the environment (in a broad sense) is too many people. Mainly in the highest populated countries of the world.

Those that are coming from a high base and have a higher than replacement rate are especially concerning, are irresponsible, and represent an existential threat to humanity. Those that discredit the danger and promote policies increasing this danger are also an existential threat to humanity. Locke Liberalism believes in freedom over responsibility- given our current situation- this is an existential threat to humanity.

There are those that promote improving technology as a means of beating the environmental damage so that we can continue as profligates- this is irresponsible.

Open borders rewards the irresponsible at the expense of the responsible- providing a pressure valve to bad management and bad behavior. Reversing what in the past was seen- perhaps- as natural justice.

'Given our last election, Donald Trump, and now the demolition of the Red Wall in Britain, things are looking up. '

that child Trudeau (blackface) is the odd one out. Still I suppose him and Greta and be friends.

CM,

Old ground - we've been over this before. Europe, including Russia, Japan and South Korea all now have birth rates which are st or below replacement rates: their populations are not rising. Russia's is actually falling fairly quickly. Latin America's birth rate is approaching the magic number of 2.1.

China's birth rate is also falling: the annual number of births is not rising, and mortality will equal births in about fifteen or twenty years. India's birth rate is falling towards 2.1, but its population will keep rising because people will be living longer (i.e. not dying off as quickly).

Which leaves Africa. Birth rates are still high there, but coming down as women gain more education, postpone pregnancies and marriage. And as health services improve there, people are having fewer children, since there is less need to have someone to care for older people. Once those societies are able to offer pensions, the birthv rats should tumble as people don't need to rely on many children to support them in their old age.

Try this site:

http://ourworldindata.org/search?q=population

Joe

Mr O MATE, please think about answering the poster who insults you
We need a cleaner better mannered site
Yes Greta is having an impact her generation is the future not the grizzled old fellas here who refuse to let truth breath

I note we have some here trying to reintroduce again Climate hysteria into this thread. They have no idea how we deal with drought in this thread. They have no practical engineering solutions on how to water our dry areas, they only have arts or social degrees and not engineering degrees to actually put forward practical solutions on how to water Australia. We need builders, not destroyers of public confidence in our future. We can build gas pipe lines from South Australia to Newcastle, surely we can build pumping stations on Northern Eastern rivers to pump overland to the inland rivers. A friend of mine in Western Sydney was responsible for water management projects in Israel, now retired. They can do it, but we need similar projects here. Subterranean water disbursement through micro drippers in cropping areas below the cultivation depth.

ttbn,

I created the term 'climate witch' to identify AGW denialists as those who seek to do harm to people by creating circumstances that produce harmful climates.

A witch can be male or female, being someone who practises sorcery aimed at causing misfortune to the community. In the case of climate witch it is one who is causing droughts and floods etc through climate change wrought by AGW. Which is you and people like you.

No, O. You just don't understand. You never will.

ttbn,

I offer you and any other climate witch the opportunity to demonstrate that they do not fit my definition of a climate witch.

Mr O is ignorant of how to deal with drought. He is just like a blow fly that needs Mortein!. He is clueless of how to engage in debate with any positive suggestions. Just ignore his trolling and deal with the subject of water and how best to store it and use it during drought. He will keep buzzing around as an annoyance. But let us stick to the subject, which is NOT Climate, but water.

Josephus,

There is no more debating. Everyone is now aware that you climate change witches have been trying to mislead them with false promises of endlessly burning fossil fuels without any adverse effects to the climate. If I had my way I would put you all up for crimes against humanity. The damage you have caused is irreparable.

Mr. O desperately in need of therapy.

ttbn,

Your days are numbered. The followers of little Greta Thunberg are gathering in every corner of the world and will be bringing all of you climate witches to heel. Soon you'll be ancient history and the world will be a better place for it.

What is it that you can't understand Mr O.

The driest year in this district, since records were first kept, was Wait for it,....1902. This is similar to much of the country.

This drought AINT climate change, but a repeat of history.

You need to grow up, & start talking sense, if you want to be part of the discussion. Other wise do prattle on & be ignored.

Josephus prayers thoughts and wishes
There! forget climate change, the man in the air will fix everything
Hope he gets time to open your mind
Hasbeen hold that straw
You worked hard to find it while ignoring the MASS OF RECENTLY broken records
Time is on my side maybe this week, read the weather predictions, our hottest ever day is coming
Our worst ever bushfire summer is half way in to our longest maybe hottest summer ever
But summers end, mid to late Autumn, we will see it has been horrific

Hasbeen,

Spoken like a true climate witch!

No more useless debating and illogical claims. We have people like you to blame for our environmental crisis.

Belly, you are better than that, we are not discussing Climate, the subject is water storage, and better usage.

Australia has always had droughts, floods and fires; some droughts have lasting years, we need to save and manage water to cope with extreme drought conditions. Put forward answers and wind mills generators are not the answer. My brother has several water pump wind driven and solar pumps to deep springs. They cope with drought conditions not stop drought as some ignorants suppose.

What has changed since Thunderbox dropped out of the news? Nothing at all. Did the nutters who put up a mentally disabled child as a travelling circus really think that anything would change? Yes, they probably did, poor deluded fools. Just like the halfwits in London, squealing that Boris Johnson is not their Prime Minister just because they hate democracy. The lunatics get madder all the time, ensuring that sane people will become more resolute.

Reporting on some nutter who compared Thunderbox with Hitler (old Adolf will never be forgotten), news.com decided that the poor silly child was now so out of the loop that readers had to be reminded that she was " a world-renowned environmental activist". Proof that the media is finished with the little ratbag, and that the 24 hour news cycle has phased her out of the public domain.

And yet the effects of bad population management are still being felt in the environment and elsewhere 40 years after China recognised the problem...

We need to maintain quarantine and a policy of encirclement until the effects have dissipated. Hopefully it will serve as a warning for those that would hold the world as hostage to their will.

There are Locke Liberals and profligates that try hand waving to distract us from the environmental damage caused by human activity. India 40 years ago had half it's population and it will soon surpass China 40 years ago being the higher population on Earth. If they think that they can create a large population- then claim that their people are suffering victims- it's no surprise. If you put your army in danger then they will fight better. By not managing their population India and China before has created desperation to rise above the crush through education or any means and their populations desperate to leave the crush of their own homelands impose their problems and their culture on other countries. This creates a culture where humans are cheap and unvalued as are the products of humans such as intellect. This creates an oversupply (and an economy of scale) of education and labour which reduces the price relative to other countries. But this is probably all to plan as it is a way that their culture can dominate the world. And the leaders feel comfortably insulated from the mess- and find their wealth increasing.

Leaders in other countries see the devalued human capital as a way of gaining advantage and wealth over their local markets- state by state- business by business- ignoring the longer term effects to their countries and their cultures- and the devaluation of humanity. We should work together with like minded countries to encircle bad population management for everyone's benefit. We shouldn't allow product dumping and predatory pricing from high population countries to damage countries that respect humanity. This is the same as the destruction of the US consumer electronics companies by the Japanese 'Keiretsu' in the 80's but on a larger scale. This predatory pricing resulted in anti-predatory laws in the US- we need similar measures to prevent predatory behavior today- but sadly there seems to be much less impetus due to the nature of the affected parties. A good argument for nationalising the legal profession- perhaps.

Everyone is struggling for a better life- some work hard to make it better- others try to use pity and predatory tactics to take from those who work- we need to reward effort- not mismanagement- as this is a bottomless pit.

We shouldn't pity the poor Indians- we shouldn't allow their predatory strategy to undermine our values and our heritage.

There is some value in cheap consumer goods but this is often offset by loss of jobs, damage to culture, devaluation of the currency. There comes a point where the cheap consumer goods are too expensive.

Perhaps we need to be thinking about less consumption and more durable goods.

Buy Australian Made

No pain, no gain has lost it's appeal long ago. Nowadays, pain is something others should experience according to and, in favour of the Millennials & Y Gen's mentality !
Bureaucrat public servants shine in that mentality !

CM,

So ...... Indians are deliberately making and selling us goods at low prices, in unsafe workplaces, and committing themselves to poverty and high child mortality for generations to come, in order to destroy our economy ? Bastards !

And Prime Minister Modi is in total control of everybody's sex lives and birth decisions in India - he issues a secret monthly set of instructions about when and how often people can have sex, in order to keep up the high birth rate, so that India can out-populate China. Everybody obeys him without question, even Congress supporters. Evil, conniving bastards !

And don't get me started on the Chinese ! And Sudanese ! And Polynesians !

Perhaps you're onto something, we should distrust and suspect any strangers, anybody other than those our own tiny group. But I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

For those who may seek relief in some common-sense rather than paranoia, try this, on world population:

http://ourworldindata.org/search?q=population

Joe

Hey climate witches,

I assume that was your lot who hung up an effigy in Rome of little Greta Thunberg hanging from a noose back in October.

What else have you got planned?

Joe- Loudmouth's link

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/projected-population-by-country

still seems to support the point that India's population will be 1.65 Billion by 2056 currently on 1.37 Billion which is a 20% increase. According to the link that Loudmouth has kindly provided... in 1981 India had 700 Million People. Little wonder many Indian's are looking for greener pastures in Australia, the US, and Great Britain.

We in the west shouldn't have to live in a crunch for which we are not responsible.

People can be modeled like any other commodity. The more people the less they are valued- supply and demand. Why should a valued people submit to being devalued.

Parahrasing "No one will participate in a system in which they don't benefit"- Joseph Stiglitz- Nobel Prize for Economics.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/globalization-new-discontents-by-joseph-e--stiglitz-2016-08

Dear Hasbeen,

It seems you Queenslanders might be a bit slow off the mark. Here in the town near me storm-water harvesting was pushed forward as part of the response to a climate change future.

As a result we have the storm water from one suburb going into huge under ground tanks installed under two sporting ovals the water from which even supplies the local AFL ground. This required putting a diversion section in part of a 100 years old

Storm water capture from another suburb is harvested to supply the botanical gardens which no longer needs drinking water to flourish.

Of course there will always be people who have little regard for what the future will bring and say we have always have had droughts in this country.

More fool you.

SteeleRedux,

What do you think of India's River Link Project? Long term failure or long term success? Why?

Should ScuMo be selling more water from the MD River Basin to Chinese controlled cotton plantations in order to promote his jobs-and-growth economic policy which really only seems to benefit cashed-up Chinese migrants who use the benefits to buy up more and more businesses and properties under a Chinese umbrella for Beijing interests?

What we are experiencing is weather. The low rainfall is due to the strongly positive IOD, specifically an area of anomalously cool ocean below Indonesia. The IOD is weaking, but still strong enough to reduce Australia's rainfall. It is well accepted that ocean temperatures influence rainfall.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/TRMM_3B43M/AMSRE_SSTAn_M

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/TRMM_3B43M/AMSRE_SSTAn_M

Could it be possible to use geoengineering to make ocean surface temperatures warmer and increase rainfall, or at least make it more reliable? I'd imagine that such an idea would make the greenies apoplectic, even angrier than they would be were a nuclear power plant to be built in Nimbin. The climate gods are already greatly angered by the great capitalist folly, so imagine how much angrier they would become should we attempt to mitigate our punishment with such blasphemy.

Fester,

Is the weather just water in a particular form?

(Or in case of droughts, drying climates, etc., a lack of water in a particular form?)

Think about it ..................

The water temperatures off the South East coast of Australia are cooler than normal which has led to less rainfall on the South coast of Australia. This is the condition for widespread fires in the area. The idea of heating the oceans might be impossible, but it would give more evaporation. Eden's average water temperature for December is 19.9C at the moment it is 19.3, that is 0.6 below average for December.

Jervis Bay NSW Based on our historical data the warmest sea in this day in Jervis Bay was 22°C but today is 20C. Note today it is a whole 2.0C below the warmest December reading.

Misopinionated,

And a squirrel is a nut on its way to the ground, as the philosopher Rapoport noted. It makes you seriously wonder too - which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Perhaps there is also weather which is down but not much which is up, and a lot which is neither. We desperately need a lot more down weather.

Joe

Hi Mr O,

The dry weather is certainly due to anomalously cool surface water as Josephus affirms. If those waters could be warmed there might be more rain. What's more, the effect would bring a result quickly. What impact will a whole bunch of solar panels and windmills have on Australia's temperatures and rainfall?

Cheers

To Joe- Loudmouth- through the chair- I'm unsure which Rapoport you are referring to

Maybe-

Author(s) David C. Rapoport
Date 2002
Publisher Department of Political Science University of California at Los Angeles

Or- Anatol Rapoport- Also a Mathematician

Anyway- The less people, the less water used, the less demand for products that require large amounts of water (like steel production), the more water remaining.

It appears that our water resources may be going the same way as our petroleum resources perhaps sold by big multinationals at world prices so the Australian community doesn't benefit

Dear Canem Malum,

The world is overpopulated and our numbers are growing exponentially. So much for laissez faire economics and free trade with their empty promises to arrest population figures. It hasn't worked. We passed the passed the sustainable population level of 5,6 billion in 1986 and we are now just short of 8 billion and it continues to grow exponentially.

Fester liked your posts knew about that cold water
Know too if it heats up before our summer ends we may well get drought breaking rain
What however if it is cold because of climate change
Many have put the view man could manipulate the oceans and we may too one day let's hope so, without damage
NSW fire, for to NSW fires near me, click on the current hell fire , look at [by clicking more information] its size
Homes lost water contaminated by ash, how many dead animals, insects?
By mid to end of Autumn we will look back on a holocaust fire year, dreadful toll of people homes and forests hope your water warms up even cyclones are welcome if it brings rain

Misopinionated,

"The world is overpopulated and our numbers are growing exponentially. "

No, it isn't, and no they aren't. Just take the time to analyse this site:

http://ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth

World population growth is slowing down. One of the key indicators, number of births, is flattening, and by 2050 or so, i.e. in another generation, will decline. That decline will flow through to 20-40 year-olds, and then into the over-40 year-olds.

What will keep the population up is the decline in mortality, deaths, i.e. the postponement of deaths from a life expectancy of, say, 60 to 70, and then from 70 to 80, then amongst the over-80s. After that limit is more or less reached, total world population will start to decline, with fewer births and natural limits on old-age.

Perhaps you have evidence otherwise ? Or is it just one of those tings you've picked up during your TAFE course ?

Joe

Loudmouth it is me the full stop man good morning, please understand my view has not changed
I remain convinced we have gone past the number of humans on this planet that is sustainable
Too that fixing that number, either reducing it or enforcing your view it is not growing, leads to a more sustainable world
It is a bit dry, right now I would not recommend another few families live in this small, country like village only 40 klm from the sea
We are on recycle septic and tank water
Our gardens are dead our tanks near empty
A recently rented home [last week] is waiting for the power to be switched on, because power men are flat our repairing bushfire damage
Sorry about the full stops maybe you can help? please recommend a good grammar that has a good spell check [WARNING spell checks have nervous breakdowns when working for me!

Hi Bely,

Presumably you have evidence for your 'beliefs', in spite of countervailing evidence ?

Do you have evidence that population growth is accelerating, or even staying about the same rate, or is that just part of your 'beliefs' ?

Do you have evidence that we have passed some sort of sustainable growth point, or is that just one of your 'beliefs' ?

I suppose we all have 'beliefs' in spite of evidence that goes contrary to them. But there is a word for clinging to 'beliefs' in spite of evidence. However, I recall a LNP politician saying that it's not illegal to be ....... of that frame of mind, so rest assured.

Joe

Joe Loudmouth- In support of Mr Opinion.

If you look at your post many countries have been following a curve that looks fairly exponential.

Yes you could argue that the reasons for the curve have changed.

Like chairing a stockholders meeting and claiming the low profit is due to capital investment!

However to me this indicates that the target birth rate needs to be revised lower.

This admittedly will have significant strain at the family level. However it is a principle of justice that we take responsibility for our actions.

The alternative is to transfer this strain and responsibility to someone else.

I don't believe that is just

Loudmouth forgive my inability to think as you do
For that I am sorry
At the start of the industrial revolution human population started to grow
WW1 for the west at least, provided jobs other than farming for the very rich, and it continued to grow
Yes I have research to prove my point
Spent an hour looking up predictions about Trump in 2020, from the experts, 50/50 half said he will win, the other just as firmly said no he will not
Right now the fact is who can tell what research is true what is false?
Sticking with my view but tell me.
Gee put in a full stop! good grief.
do you think we look after every human right now.
And do you think we could do better.
What if [this full stop stuff is fun!] we had less or more?
Still looking for a good grammar tool with spell check
[Some think it should be a good thrashing with a willow stick.

"Marathon UN climate talks have ended with a slim compromise that sparked widespread disappointment, after major polluters, including Australia, resisted calls for ramping up efforts to keep global warming at bay and negotiators postponed debate about rules for international carbon markets for another year." (News.com on the latest unnecessary climate gab fest in Madrid.

Greta Thunderbox and the sobbing school girls have certainly made a huge difference - not.

The disconnected elites endorsed a "general call for greater efforts to tackle climate change and several measures to help poor countries respond and adapt to its impacts".

That means nothing but rip more money off the West and give it to shithole countries to squander it on - who knows what?

The nutters actually blamed Australia - linking us with Brazil, if you please - of "undermining efforts to reduce emissions". As if Australia doesn't have anything better to do than 'undermine' something that is not really happening.

Speak to China and India, nutters! Even they are undermining nothing; merely doing their duty, improving the lives of their people.

As always, an "urgent need" for magic tricks was declared.

More costly, polluting crapola to come in Glasgow next November.

An eruption of a single Volana affect the bands around the world, few doubt this
Atmospherics conditions change in such events
No one seems to doubt that either
Why then has centuries of carbon emissions not done the same
Truth is they have.

The plant life on our planet needs around 180 parts per million to survive, give or take. If it doesn't survive, neither do we.

So the current 408 parts per million is around 200-220 parts per million more than the current level of vegetation can absorb. So the task is to reduce that 220 parts per million down towards 180 parts per million.

I don't know what they're teaching kids these days - i.e. the handful doing Science - but I get the impression that they think that CO2 - not just CO2 but C, carbon itself - is some sort of poison. But the food we eat, vegetable and animal, has very high proportions of vital carbon compounds in it, sugars, fats, fibre, etc., and without it we would die of starvation very quickly. Carbon in its many forms is vital for our survival.

I wonder if it's possible to get that through to the little children ?

Joe

Loudmouth,
Green house plants are being pumped with 400 parts / 1,000,000 CO2 to promote growth. Plants can absorb high levels of CO2 in longer sunlit days.

I don't give a s..t about how many parts per whatsit. Let's leave it to nature to do what it has done for thousands of years; it is a lot bigger than we are. And if we have to make adjustments to it, so be it.

Hi Belly,

The drought and fires are a terrible devastation. If the predictions that they will get worse are accurate, and I have many doubts about this, then it is all the more pressing to try and mitigate the effects. I just can't see solar panels and windmills doing all that much. In contrast, putting a bit of fertilizer in the ocean is inexpensive, possibly beneficial, and extremely unlikely to result in a Chernobyl.

As an aside, I have been injecting a psoriasis plaque on my knee daily with b12/folic acid for two and a bit weeks with a good result. I am about to try mixing the vitamins with some DMSO to try as a topical treatment. I will keep you posted of my progress.

Cheers

Climate change inerrancy, the new God.
Let's not question children used as child soldiers for their cause.
Who are they that simply lack morals in their blind pursuit of a lost cause, and hatred against the unbelievers.

I prefer Christianity. But then I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo....what am I doing here?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XFkzRNyygfk

Dan the climate man.

From the LAND.com
THE STRONG Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD) positive event that has been such a strong driver in the current catastrophic drought across large tracts of agricultural Australia is finally showing signs of breaking down.
The Bureau of Meteorology (BOM) reported this week that while the positive IOD event was continuing it has weakened significantly since its peak of +2.1 degrees Celsius in mid-October, which was one of the highest readings on record.
At present it is at 0.9 degrees, still well above the IOD positive threshold, however it is less than half what it was.
IOD events generally break down by December due to the monsoon season in the northern Indian Ocean but this event has been particularly strong and taken longer to decay.
With the El Nino climate driver in the Pacific Ocean currently in a neutral phase it will mean some time towards the start of the year there is no major climate driver pushing dry conditions across the country, although this does not necessarily mean drought-breaking rain.
Along with the lack of rain in Australia, the recent flooding in the Horn of Africa is also typical of an IOD positive event.

The story Finally IOD relief on its way first appeared on Farm Online.

We have to be very careful about trying to heat part of an ocean, or fertilising it either. Even if we achieve our objective, & increase our rainfall, cool our atmosphere, or any other objective, what may our result have somewhere else?

If our benefit reduces the monsoon in India, or Africa we are in trouble. Even if our actions had no effect elsewhere, anyone suffering less than ideal weather are going to assume it was our meddling that caused their problem.

Playing with fire would be almost as bad as building windmills thinking it would reduce bush fires.

Hasbeen- Going back to your original post- my understanding is that Global Warming is characterized by more unpredictable weather and more extreme events even if the average data (temperature, rainfall, etc) doesn't change much. That doesn't necessarily mean the Greenies are correct. Correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation. (Also Global Warming isn't necessarily the same as environmental damage.)

If the weather is becoming more unpredictable it's bound to damage the profitability and increase the risks of farming. We'd need to analyse the numbers to see if this is true.

I remember you talking about your property and it's operations so you seem to have a vast practical knowledge in this area

Josephus,

The last report I heard a couple of months ago was for a 60-70% chance of an El Nino event this Xmas. Up 5-10% on the indication several months earlier than that one. Not a major EN but still an EN event, which will mean continuing drought and most probably more extreme fires and water shortages.

Looks like you are doing your own calculations based on information you are gleaning from BOM, etc. Are you a meteorologist?

Fester 40 plus years and tried so much but just now have a newly released spray on and rub in that works.
Saw that reference to us believers having a religion based on well, a usual throwaway insult from the other side, not our view
Now us believers [your words not mine] we have been conned its a hoax, tell me by who.
Tell me for what reason?.
If true then surely you will agree a huge group has [for not yet known reasons] been used to confuse lie, write Fake news Fake views about Fake climate change and I am one of its victims.
OK so far?.
Then we agree some hugely powerful group exists driving miss information to achieve?[leave that until we find out!?
The question as we agree that group exists can we ask is it driving and deceiving me? or you?

Something we haven't discussed is the psychological dimension of AGW / climate change denial.

We should keep in mind that for the denialist the idea that AGW might be a myth or fallacy or deception provides them with comfort and relief from the anxiety of facing the enormity of environmental destruction being wrought by AGW.

They don't want their world to change so they try to shut it out by denying the cause of climate change and environmental destruction. They attempt to exonerate themselves from blame by positing causes beyond human control.

An interesting topic and one that should have been raised long before now.

What is being done now to get ready for the next floods ? How many storage lagoons etc are being constructed ? Or, will all the water again be allowed to run off the car parks etc. & as per usual disperse un-filtered into the ocean ?
Will farmers be allowed to store more flood water or will the insipid academic experts again prevent forward planning as per usual ?
Water must be given the chance to absorb into the ground instead of running off the parched, hard ground. Now is the time for the Army to dig absorption trenches wherever possible !
Dig channels to direct excess water to Acquifer areas. It's time to act instead of more theory fests !

individual,

What water? Where's the water? Do you mean the water ScuMo and his mates are selling off to China?

Mr Opinion,
READ what people write !

Individual- Letting the flood water run off when there's a shortage of potable water seems a bit silly. I guess everyone is waiting for someone else to act.

Political Philosopher Patrick Deneen says this is the consequence and irony of Locke Liberalism- a government designed to create the sophisticated state of freedom found in nature- before the rise of the cultures that have enslaved humanity by the patriarchal rulers- ironically needs more and more government to function- and yet still manage to fail to provide the services that existed in the "patriarchal cultural slavery".

In times past when people saw problems they fixed them.

Organise a work detail give them shovels and send them out to do the job- perhaps take some of the mouthy feminists with you... see if their action is as good as their talk...

Digging a few trenches in the hot sun does wonders for impressing and enlightening one to reality

Organise a work detail give them shovels and send them out to do the job- perhaps take some of the mouthy feminists with you... see if their action is as good as their talk...

Canem Malum,
precisely, that's what I had in mind for part in a National Service. Exercising body AND mind instead of mindless education !

Individual- From memory I agreed with you on National Service. And still do.

see Greta caught out lying on a train recently. Oh well its consistant with having to lie to continue the man made gw narrative. Photo's depicting false narrative's are common for the left.

Canem Malum, the theory is actually that global warming will increase the temperature at the polls most. Weather particularly extreme weather is generated by natural forces trying to balance global temperatures.

Reduced difference between tropical & polar temperatures will reduce the potential for extreme weather to be generated to try to equalise these temperatures.

Thus global warming will diminish, not increase the severity of storms. About the only evidence that global warming is happening is the definite fact that severe storms have diminished over recent decades.

This of course has nothing to do with CO2, which can not effect our climate to any real extent, but continual warming from the little ice age.

Do hold your hat, the current trend in sun spots indicate we are about to experience the next very cold period in earths climate, & possibly the start of a real ice age. If so, god help us with idiots or rent seekers leading so many institutions.

Individual how about we expand on water
How in the Crimson hell did this country let [not farmers buy invest and sell water?.
WHY
We have often talked about water and your recent post was not wrong, we do need to build dams, it will rain, indeed it will flood
My state ONCE had a government water resources thing, it built dams on farms, it conserved water
Why not start out a 100-year plan [maybe to be followed by another same length of time] to save water
Use wind and solar [even if stored by battery] to pump water running out to sea inland
Hot here about 34, been in and out of the garden, dry? yes dead? yes most of it, but my recycled sewage is working!
Keeping parts of it alive.
Expand it a thousand times?

It's a bit hot, too. The forecast for Adelaide for today was a max of 40 degrees, but it's already 44 degrees (at 4.00 pm) here under-cover.

Could be quite a week.

Joe

Make sure you stay cool Joe. I always keep a 2L bottle of water in the freezer for hot days.

Hi Belly,

Sounds like you have got Enstilar. Good that it is helping you.

Re Global warming. My concern is that it is an issue grabbed by the far left and used as a political instrument to attack capitalism. Any potential mitigation seems to be put through an ideological sieve. So we have the big promotion of solar panels and wind farms, which I think will do nothing other than cause economic harm. Meanwhile, nuclear power and geoengineering, which may have merit, don't get a look in. Why?

Remember also, it is 0.8 +/- 0.4 degrees Celsius atmospheric warming and 0.3 degrees Celsius of ocean warming over one and a half centuries. The dire predictions are based on computer simulations which I believe to be extremely unreliable. Also, other factors that may influence the weather, such as ocean pollution, get scant attention. Any extreme weather event just gets put down to "Climate Change", as if no further explanation were necessary, hence my belief that it is taking on a religious dimension. Apologies if I caused any offence.

Cheers

Fester,

Richard Branson and Bill Gates are spending billions on research and development in geoengineering solutions to remove carbon from the atmosphere, which they intend to sell to world governments at enormous costs.

Branson's and Gates' empires have pinned their stars to a globally warmed world in which they hope to reep trillions of dollars for making things right again. And we the taxpayers will be footing the bill for something that should never have been allowed to happen. In fact Gates is actively involved in a global education campaign to make people aware of AGW and its effects to imbue the idea amongst people around the world that we must fix the problem if we hope to survive.

So in a way one could say that the captains of capitalism are encouraging AGW to promote their own financial interests.

Fester folk find it hard to believe but I hate the very left.
See they, like communism, murdered Socialism.
Well, the inability to get people to achieve much under that system helped.
I fail to see a truely saleable left.
Corbyn was and is such a person and his defeat was known a month before the election.
So? I push and pull my party,s [it too moves in the same direction] towards a center.
We will get there no other path to government exists.
Now yes some true left have leached on to man-made climate change, but the truth remains, it is real.
The true left could hold meetings in phone boxes, not many phone boxes left but not many true left either.
Fake News Fake fear generating has handed the Fake very right too many governments, the biggest conspiracy is that not anything else
The confusion generated by the above is harming us all capitalism is the only system, but we can give it a heart and retain it

The Left-
Lord forgive them for they don't know what they do !

I just heard some more talk on ABC radio that they're again looking for scape goats about the Murray River fiasco.
Could someone in the know please inform us where most of the water from the Murray system goes ?

Look at the flows- my understanding is most of the water is taken out in VIC and NSW leaving the SA heads to require dredging.

Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 6:42:46 AM- Statement 1-

"...I hate the very left.
See they, like communism, murdered Socialism.
Well, the inability to get people to achieve much under that system helped.

Answer 1 by Canem Malum-

The thing is Belly- if it looks like a rose, smells like a rose, feels like a rose- it's probably a rose- same with communism. But you have to do a lot of reading to understand what communism is.

Like an elephant in the dark- if you feel it's leg it feels cylindrical- if you feel it's ear it feels flat- if you feel it's fail it feels like a rope- each piece gives you a little bit of data to try to build up a full picture. This is the same with communism and other ideologies- most ideologies are constructed by philosophies and there are often subtle differences between viewpoints that can end up being critical to understanding.

Over time with painful tedious effort you start to build up a partial picture or model. Once you have a basic model it becomes easier to quickly sum up political situations- sometimes a concept comes along that shakes up your model- but mostly with thought and time you are able to incorporate the new concepts into your model framework.

Once you understand the model concept you start to understand that others can have very different maps of the world- sometimes by talking with them you can start to see that their world has a certain amount of internal consistency- but often you'll find that it is not reconcilable with your own- so now you have two models- inconsistent with each other. At some point you need to make a decision in the real world one way or the other- of course if you are a responsible person you can not cede your judgement to someone else. There is always the possibility you will be wrong in your model- but you need to trust your own judgement.

There are those that will tell you that your lack of expertise or understanding is reason for not relying on your own judgement- yes your judgement may be falible- everyones is even experts- but you still need to take responsibility for your own decisions.

The links below documents one woman's journey through her process of discovery...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Pill

Basically an understanding of politics requires an understanding of the "players" the "philosophy" and "chronology". Everything is related to everything else- sometimes there is an inverse relationship sometimes a proportional one- but it's even more complicated than this- but we can leave it there for now.

My understanding is Socialism was founded by Communists. Maybe you will come to a different conclusion.

Statement 2 by Belly-

Fake News Fake fear generating has handed the Fake very right too many governments, the biggest conspiracy is that not anything else

Answer 2 by Canem Malum-

Fake News- well this is a term that appears to have been invented by "the so called left" to stop people reading about the opposing view. Do you really think news from "the left is all pure and white as snow".

Politics is a dirty game- in the end it's all about power on all sides- all about information warfare about perception, distortion, etc. History has shown it is possible to trick and trap large parts of the population with logical devices. You want to create a perception of white while presenting the opposition as black- red herring- it's all about power. In politics one is forced to negotiate with allies but who are the right allies- ultimately one might assume that the population are the most valid- but it's complicated.

Edward Bernays (Sigmund Freud's cousin) wrote the book on Propaganda and was one of the most powerful people of the twentieth century. The communists also had a very well refined propaganda machine. All communication is linked to the speakers biases so in a sense all communication has an element of "Fake News". This is all part of the eternal information war that has extended throughout history. You can't read everything so you need to create some "credibility filters" to manage the flow- just take care that you are not using a filter that has it's own bias. It's much less dangerous to read bias news than to accept a filter that has bias- if you use a biased filter everything you read will be biased.

So the challenge is to balance "information and dis-information" so that you can make decisions that are in the best enlightened interest of yourself. In order for "democracy" for example (representive self governance) to work requires an informed population. One way to help yourself filter the dis-information is by relying on credible sources of information- such as national statistics bodies- news agencies with a reputation for good standards- but what happens if the information well is poisoned- you need to find new wells. In history at times underground news sources have been the only sources of reality. One way to ensure that the well is safe is by reading their standards of publication- and perhaps a sample of articles for bias. You should periodically go outside your comfort zone to test your model. Some ideas sound right but there are traps.

Some wells are more toxic than others. Some power is more valid than others- but it's complicated.

The best lies contain some truth

If someone tells me not to read something- that's the first thing I'll do.

CM well your waterfall of words was interesting but says more about you than me
True left is and for some time has been the enemy of the Australian Labor Party.
Include the greens
They small in numbers, have influence beyond their worth
Everdence? my constant call for a reformed senate, three year terms twice the number of votes to win a seat half the number of Senators
Plan? return the chook pen to whoever wins government or remove it.
Corbyn, a true left idiot, my words 6 weeks ago a year ago, and my joy at his defeat, moving to the voters not away from them is the only path to election victories
NOW the words terms used by CM are pure products of FoxSky untrue Fake deliberately so, to hide the truth and confuse some, the very right, not an invisible left, is the real threat worldwide
Having remastered Gobbles style misinformation they can not be trusted

Oh well.

There are and, will al-ways be...
Those who look, but will not see...

And those CM will be the rusted on.

Fortunately in the US & the UK, but much more slowly in Oz, some are starting to see through the rust, & realise they have been reduced to useful idiots by those they trusted for so long.

Hopefully more will see that the last people whose welfare the academic left, & chardonnay socialists are interested in are the street sweepers & the garbage collectors of our world.

Thanks Hasbeen.

Hasbeen CM, yes indeed but I do not blame you two, hard to see or hear when you are welded on to the fake factory news
A TRUTH, here and maybe in five years England [there will no longer be a great Britain] the emerging new revitalised left [only just] of center will be in office.
America in those five years will be both looking at by then,at well known Trump crimes ,and trying to rebuild international trust, not an easy job.
We too in the post Trump era, will see unmasking of the Fox lie factory, maybe even by itself as it soon will distance itself from Trump
That not in existant left? will be even smaller as the reality only parties that bring the center toothem can win elections

Belly you expose your hatreds not based in facts. You are an emotional thinker nor a factual one.

Hatred? Josephus, you overvalue your own opinion.
I could, time and again, question your stability after reading some posts from you.
I do not hate, do not need to insult you.
Read everything you post, even in threads, I do not post in.
Hate, you have my true honest sympathy
The other two posters may think as they wish, in a debate, first understand no law exists saying you are always right
The other person always wrong

Thanks for the thread Hasbeen.

So if we get less than 17mm in the next 12 days, this will be our driest year since 1894 when records started in the district.

However for a full calendar year we have;

1994, ........453mm.
1902, ........459mm.
1926, ........501mm.
1960, ........509mm..
1915, ........548mm.

Only a fool with no math could find any trend in that lot.

I wont bore you with the highest rainfall figures, more than to say our wettest year was 1893, with 1726mm against our average of 935mm, & they show no more trend than our minimums.

How many lies do the warmists have to be caught out in, before the useful idiots start to smell as rat?

Only a fool with no math could find any trend in that lot.
Hasbeen,
I can't see a trend in those figures (see, I'm no fool hehe !).
However, I can see a trend in the increase of water-wasting when I look at run-off management or rather the lack of it.
Rainwater simply doesn't get the chance anymore to soak into the ground & beyond hence the increasing dryness of the environment wherever humans occupy & manipulate the ground.
Run-off is ever increasing in volume at the static volume of rainfall.
Reduced moisture-laden ground invariably leads to increased environmental temperature.
But, rather than take logical action, the theorising "experts" bleat GW because Govts mainly run by other "experts", fail to provide funding for practical solutions & literally throw money at the theorising "experts" and so, no practical solution is ever achieved. This is a real visible & negative trend !

Hasbeen your use if the term warmist defines you, think about it.
YOU introduced the thread and the statistics
Fact is this very week all-time records have been broken, including this country's hottest day for this month ever
Then all-time record was broken again the next day.
It will be broken again tomorrow!
This fire summer has started in the second month of winter and will go, at least, until the last days of Autumn!
Have no doubt, it will be our worst on record ever.
So this warmist applauds your use of statistics my thanks

Fact is this very week all-time records have been broken,
Belly,
Fact is also that we have record land clearing, record sealing of absorbing ground, record use of air conditioning, record consumerism which in turn results in record pollution i.ie. record emission, we have record air travel, record road transport, record communication equipment made from petroleum etc etc. Records all around us hence the record replies from mother Earth !
From my observations, it's the very loud GW bleaters who are in fact the main culprits !

Best wishes individual, and thanks for highlighting the statistics.
They nothing else are the evidence for man-made global warming, you even highlighted that in your post
2 DEAD FIREMEN, a firestorm from hell, sure is a bit dry

http://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/the-monster-a-short-history-of-australia-s-biggest-forest-fire-20191218-p53l4y.html
if nothing else click the link
See the time this fire has been burning
The area it has covered
Then confront this, this summer has already been five months old, it will be another four months at least
Long before it ends lives lost will be well into double figures
Homes lost are already records
But WILL more than double before it is over

Belly,
Climate change is only one of the cogs in the gears of our Planet !
GW is natural BUT, mankind's abuse of the environment has an undeniable negative impact !
Can we stop it ? NO ! Can we do something to curb it ? Perhaps but we can most definitely curb the # 1 problem, Pollution ! That is, if we really want to.
The # 1 cause is of course, overpopulation !
The next # 1 cause is greed & power & the next # 1 cause is human stupidity ! I read all the time that Australia could be a leader in doing "something" about CC & the counter argument is that whatever Australia does won't make any difference. So, how would people feel about Australia focussing on combating the rise of stupidity & become a world leader in that first ?
Once inroads are made there, we could then lead the way in tackling all the other problems !
Who knows, we might even find a way to stop ruining the environment !

Belly do yourself a favor & check out the JoNova blog today. For once learn the truth about the con job the Bureau are pulling by discarding early records.

They have a problem. News papers from the late 18 hundreds printed the news of the day, including temperatures. The so called record breaking temperatures are a total lie, they only work if you ignore everything from before 1900.

I challenge you to go & read the truth, & then tell us what you really believe after seeing factual reports from the early years. You prove you don't want to know if you don't see these facts.

Hasbeen in the factory that invented fake news, you are a standout
It was put together so folk like you would not ever know truth from fiction, it worked on you
BLEEDING WARMISTS how did we manipulate temperatures, all-time records? tell me how
We too got the worst fires in our history to burn, using the driest time in our history to help do it
bleeding warmists! we refuse to see the not true unfacts about other hottest driest coldest myths
And stand by all-time records! bleeding warmists!

Belly,

Your last post shews that Has been has got you.

ise mise while I often notice miss-spelling I can not remember ever complaining about it
Pot calling the kettle black stuff
But shews? try shows, never thought I would get that chance mate
NO it proves old age has got to my mate hasbeen,not a thing else
regards

I reckon ScuMo is really P---ED OFF about having to leave Hawaii and return to Australia to seem he cares about the effects the bushfires are having. At least he will be happy to know that the fires have absolutely nothing to do with climate change.

Belly old mate you don't seam to understand fake news is a new phenomenon invented by the Democrats, & now copied by the rest of the left, particularly the UN.

The papers sited as evidence of pre 1900 temperatures were still simply news papers, not propaganda sheets of the left as today.

You failure to accept my challenge to actually read some of the history of Australian temperatures proves you are only interested in propaganda, & you know you could not handle the truth of those early paper reports.

Belly,

I have to agree with Hasbeen, there are plenty of reports - in newspapers, journals, diaries, etc. - of daily temperatures back as far as the invention of thermometers.

But more recently, it seems, different types of thermometers have been introduced, which means that all the 'old' measurements have had to be 'adjusted', usually downwards. So why can't the BoM maintain both forms of temperature measurements, so that contemporary (or is it 'contemporaneous' ?) comparisons can be made with earlier measurements ?

Just saying.

Joe

Hey Hasbeen, where's your mate ScuMo? Where the bloody 'ell are ya ScuMo?

Where the bloody 'ell are ya ScuMo?
Mr Opinion,
And, where're you fighting fires presently & doing your volunteer bit ?

Individual,

You shouldn't criticise virtuous wanchors, they are so obviously with the firefighters in spirit.

Joe

individual,

I won't lift a finger to help a country that has a Chinese future.

People like you are the ones who have created this environmental crisis and let the Chinese pour in so you and the other usual suspects are the ones who should be out there protecting what you helped create. Why don't you tell the Chinese to go and fight the fires? After all, it's their country now.

love the wat some ignore brand new all-time records, even tell us they are not true.
Then has been lumbering me with being a victim of fake news?

It's no surprise how virtuous wanchors always have cop-outs.

Now our Chinese fellow-citizens is why he won't lift a finger to support our firemen. The 2 % of Australians. 2 %.

Is it possible to be virtuous and a racist at the same time ? Seems so. Wanchors are so versatile.

Joe

I see the challenge is too hot for you Belly so you ducked it.

I guess the ego wouldn't be able to handle having proved to you that your gods are simply clay models.

Loudmouth,

Are you honestly trying to tell us Chinese make up 2% of the population? What planet do you come from?

Get yourself over to Sydney mister and have a look at what you and your kind have created. 2%! Give us a break!

what you and your kind have created.
Mr opinion,
And, the fruits of which you et al fully exploit & enjoy !

As we are all in the same boat here, we can take comfort that it has the compulsory two anchors !

individual,

I take no enjoyment in living in a country with a Chinese future and a devastated environment, both of which have been created by people like you.

created by people like you.
Mr opinion,
I thought it has become pretty clear over time that I'm not a Labor voter !

Belly,

"ise mise while I often notice miss-spelling I can not remember ever complaining about it
Pot calling the kettle black stuff
But shews? try shows, never thought I would get that chance mate
NO it proves old age has got to my mate hasbeen,not a thing else
regards"

Finally I've caught a live one!!

Been baiting the hook with "shews" (and variations) for ages and not one bite.

"Shew' as an alternative to "show' is perfectly acceptable English, a bit out of date, but still in there, was used for years (and possibly still is by the State Mapping Authority on its maps.

"shew

Where all is right at heart, little things, as well as great, may shew that it is so.
From Cambridge English Corpus

This shews that the coherent-structure vorticity drops in x a t a slower rate than the time-mean vorticity, as to be expected.
From Cambridge English Corpus

These examples are from the Cambridge English Corpus and from sources on the web. ...

I have myself shewn that this is a mistaken view.
From Cambridge English Corpus

The water and the track together will shew him the way to the tarn, which is the source of the stream.
From Cambridge English Corpus

My father said none but thieves and persons who were ashamed to shew their faces wore them.
From Cambridge English Corpus

A slight acquaintance with numbers will shew the immensity of the first power in comparison of the second.
From the Hansard archive

That shews, if you add the normal increase to the decrement during the last year, a reduction of something like 10,000.
From the Hansard archive

I am aware of a recent survey which shews that many road users do not yet recognise the new road signs, though the situation is on the whole improving gradually.
From the Hansard archive"

Just goes to shew ! !

often notice miss-spelling
is Mise,
Is she related to Aaron Spelling ?

Hasbeen my thanks, hot here, well not outside, southerly arrived but the house still hot
Slept from midnight to 4 AM.
So have read all my papers [sadly some are still yesterdays
No bias just truth, National party head, nice bloke, unfit for the job
He will not have it all that long, did a bad job as acting PM, told us animal dung and dry vegetation started the fires!
Fact is we have been informed over 100 are products of firebugs, bet ten percent are back burns that NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE
Learned it was hotter way back, we used see thermometers!
Electrics tell lies or is it the truth?
FAKE NEWS SURE DOES CONFUSE US DOSNT IT?

Hi Belly,

No need to worry any longer - SuperScuMo has just flown in.

Do you think it would be cynical to suggest that he kept his holiday to Hawaii a secret from the public in order to hide the fact that he's not really interested in what happens with the bushfires because he doesn't believe in AGW and its consequential climate change which is now definitely being held to be the root cause of our current environmental crisis characterised by neverending drought and massive bushfires?

Mr Opinion,
When were you fighting the fires ?

individual,

What don't you understand when I say 'I won't lift a finger to help a country that has a Chinese future'?

'I won't lift a finger to help a country that has a Chinese future'?
Mr Opinion,
So, your quip at our PM re his holiday was for what reason ?

individual,

ScuMo got caught out for trying to avoid being around to respond to concerns about AGW and climate change being the root causes of this current environmental crisis. Don't you think that deserves criticism?

I don't like the idea of being a part of a future Chinese Australia that has been created by people like you, Hasbeen, Loudmouth, and the other usual suspects. But what has that got to do with my criticism of ScuMo's stance on AGW and climate change?

Come on Indy, you can't expect someone with an Arts degree to go out & get dirty fighting bush fires.

No way! That's for prime ministers, Ex prim ministers & dirty people who actually do work.

Our arts grads are educated to sit around & talk about things, not to get dirty.

Hasbeen,

But you don't - or can't - or won't - understand that they are our rightful rulers, the philosopher-kings. They know so much and it's only stupid people like us who are preventing them - in our futile worship of 'democracy - from taking proper charge.

Joe

Loudmouth,

I like the way that you define the Arts grad as someone you yourself are not, which tells us that you are not an Arts grad.

Hasbeen,

The way you constantly criticise Arts grads as useless and unknowledgeable tells us that you think there is no use in having historians, archaeologists, sociologists, anthropologists, and philosophers. I assume you are aware all of these come from the Arts. Is that what you are telling us?

OK know you lot I am no supporter of the man who has been seen in public with the Beer going it one end and out the other
Yes Macas, what can I say, been doing that to the whole country post-election.
But he got only a little wrong.
Should have told us he was on leave
And WARNED he had left a Potato in charge
Tony Abbott was fighting fires before he became PM'
Surely he, king potato head that he is, is known as a man's man at least, give him credit that is due
FAKE NEWS! have to admit it is brilliant, manufactured first by Adolfs little boy Gobbels
Imported into America by our own Rupert the rat, it is now owned by the Republican right.
And hides the truth so well even they forget what is true
Fake news fake weather fake concerns just maybe in 2020 our best hope is fixing it so someone, anyone, knows the truth, rain? only if the bleeding warmists let it

Come on Belly, you can't talk about fake news while you still wont look at truthful reporting from long before Goebbels was even a gleam in his fathers eye.

historians, archaeologists, sociologists, anthropologists, and philosophers.
Mr Opinion,
Most of these only make a name of themselves AFTER some village yokel has found something.
Also, look at some of the damage they caused throughout history by getting it wrong, Sociologists & philosophers in particular !
To answer your question, no there's no real value attributable to them. And, considering the cost to us taxpayers, only an extreme few of them are of any use to society !
Scientists, yeah but your lot ? NO !

Misopinionated,

I didn't single out Arts graduates like myself, nor do I think graduates generally are not entitled to their due. But they're no more entitled to rule than anybody else. Your command of the English language is somewhat lacking. So are the mighty leaps in your logic.

As it happens, you're partly right: I'm also a graduate in Education, which is not Arts; in Business, which is not Arts; in Accounting, which is not Arts; in other fields, which are not Arts. So yes, I'm a graduate in fields which are not Arts. According to your weird logic, therefore I'm not an Arts graduate. Therefore 'I don't like Arts graduates' ?

How did you go in this year's Year 12 results ? Or you aren't quite there yet ? Good luck next year !

Joe

Anyhow, the next big rains are just around the corner, have the relevant authorities prepared for harvesting as much water as possible ? Or, will we be debating the same subject again in twelve months ?

Loudmouth,

Enough of this farce of yours. Here you are telling us your degrees are in business, accounting and education and in other areas you say are not from Arts but in another post earlier this year you told us you had two Arts degrees both in economics and geography and other degrees in political science. What will you come up with next, degrees in architecture, oceanography, etc. Where do you get off with this BS

individual just said:

'Anyhow, the next big rains are just around the corner'.

When will they occur? where will they occur? how much rain will happen?

Or is this just more BS?

Mr Opinion,
You're obviously too young to know that there's such a thing as seasons, just wait a little !

individual just said:

'Mr Opinion, You're obviously too young to know that there's such a thing as seasons, just wait a little!'

This is getting crazier everyday!

I'm starting to think Hasbeen, individual and Loudmouth all have something in common: dementia.

Is Mise- 'shews' that he is a man of rare patience- Kudos. I put it down to a typing error- w being next to e on the keyboard. Which is different from writing phonetically. Anyway I'm sure that if I couldn't pick on Belly's spelling I'd be picking on his funny hair.

And Individual I'm not talking to you anymore- that joke was terrible- the first anchor was ok.

With left and right- Socialist Alternative will label Greenies as far left- it's somewhat relative- I try to talk in terms of more absolute rather than relative terms. I've found some of your views your views a little left but not excessively so. There is the "Overton Window".

I can relate to Mr Opinion's prespective- as many would expect

Mr O is now trying to tell us he can think. Now that is funny.

Again, I heard an ABC journalist try to pry out condemnation re the PM's holiday & that Australia should become the World leader in fighting Climate Change.
However, the person being interviewed was too smart for the ABC & did not let herself get sucked into a debate.
What no journalist & CC warrior does, is to put forward suggestions as to what could be done !
All they constantly say is 'stop coal mining'. Ok, stop mining coal, then what ? Overpollute the Planet by the manufacturing of petroleum based Green Energy ?
I never hear anyone say 'Let's curb our excesses, I'll lead the way' ! Same goes for the water situation. My guess is that no water storage is built in readiness for the next rain & most will run off into the rivert & pollute the sea.
Why are so many so stupid ?

Hasbeen just said:

'Mr O is now trying to tell us he can think.'

And this is from a man who tried to fool me into thinking he has a Bachelor of Science in Engineering from the University of Sydney.

Little did he know that I am an alumnus of Sydney and to the best of my knowledge Sydney never awarded a BSc (Eng).

alumnus
Mr opinion,
Use of fanciful words to describe something very basic is a clear indicator of lacking just about all ingredients required to make up intelligence.

CM,

Is Mise- 'shews' that he is a man of rare patience- Kudos. I put it down to a typing error- w being next to e on the keyboard. Which is different from writing phonetically. Anyway I'm sure that if I couldn't pick on Belly's spelling I'd be picking on his funny hair"

Belly didn't make a spelling error, he clearly delineated the difference between 'show' and 'shew'.

'Shew' is a more logical a spelling;
"He was a shower" can have two meanings.. he showed things or he was a shower (as in rain) of whatever.
He was a shewer has but one meaning.. he shewed.

English has lots of funnies.

Ise Mise warmist fool that I am just wanted to let you know and maybe get some help.
Put grama helper in, it leads me to the wrong territory nearly as much as my cars onboard thing does
Spell check ok, but working under protest, seems my input has it showing signs of a mental breakdown'
RAIN! HERE! strewth is good [try that one spell checker]
Misty started last night still misting, 2 mm so far but swear the grass is singing, have a great Christmas, you and every single poster
Will try to put myself down more often next year promise

individual just said:

'Mr opinion, Use of fanciful words to describe something very basic is a clear indicator of lacking just about all ingredients required to make up intelligence.'

Does anyone out there know how to translate Dimwit into English?

Does anyone out there know how to translate Dimwit into English?
Mr Opinion,
Mr Opinion !

After hearing so much about the catastrophic fires in Balmoral, I looked up the town on Google Earth.
A lot of houses are literally within bushland so, it was literally inevitable that so much loss has occurred.
Very sad indeed !

individual,

And what also made it inevitable was the inaction on AGW and climate change by ScuMo and his mates.

PS We all know you are conversant in Dimwit. It was the others I was asking to translate what you said from Dimwit into English.

alumnus
Mr Opinion,
You were a pupil, nothing else !

Yippee, another quick 40mm, & it is still raining, so not the driest year.

Still a bloody awful year, but not a record.

Hope you got some more down your way Belly.

Hasbeen,

I'm in suburban Brisbane at the moment and it really came down with thunder and lightning, then tapered off into good few hour of steady rain.

Hasbeen three AM it poured down, the house full of sleeping bodies I snuck out and just listened to it on the tin roof
Stopped now radar shows some got it more, even near yours.
Still dry maybe still a record, but brought the rain gauge in it had 8 mm!
May get more, 8mm, 200 m2 roof, eight 44 gallon drums of water in the main tank!
Have a great day everyone.

And what also made it inevitable was the inaction on AGW and climate change by ScuMo and his mates.
Mr Opinion,
Very interesting, what do you think they should do to stop future fires ?

That was my lot, 8mm in 30 minutes not a drop more
Radar showed it was only about 30ks wide but loved it.
Individual, start with mandatory prison, man woman or child who starts a fire
Fund more full-time firemen and women
Start the desale plants right now, pump water inland ditto
NEWCASTLE, right now a plan is on display to use four existing open-cut mines, after mining ends, to pump water in to and store.
In part funded by recreational use of the lakes they become.
Use sewage and stormwater, floods too, to make the inland live.
Climate change or not invest for our country's sake in water
Or give the inland to the Israelis and let them show us how it is done.

Hope that works Belly, it may not be suitable.

Up here most water in old open cut mines is too chemically contaminated for use for potable or irrigation applications.

We have a flooded Gold mine that was so badly contaminated that the only uses for the water was to frolic in it, harbour crocodiles, have flocks of birds & fish are happily chirping away.
But it's too contaminated according to some "experts".
And, that's just the tailing Dam.

Gold mines as I understand use cyanide to leach the gold from the rock. So yes not potable.

Gentlemen all true even made man Lake for an existing power station in the Hunter is TOXIC
The mines I spoke of see,s one ready to be filled, and stretches over 100 KLM
Now part of that plan was and remains, filtering the water before use, surely as it leaves the dam.
That will remain toxic forever.
Just natural minerals are enough to say that
Let's not build mental dams around our thoughts for a better country.
We can overcome the concerns raised forget the costs find out the costs of doing nothing.

I understand that ScuMo and his mates want the world to believe that the burning of fossil fuels has negligible impact on global warming.

Can anyone verify that?

http://www.9news.com.au/national/warragamba-dam-falls-lowest-level-in-15-years-sydney-news/7b584505-be63-43f7-a873-f6ba51096da0
Not a record.
But getting close to the one that is, and that record? set in 2004 mid yet another drought.
Will the record be broken? well, last time when it was the dam flooded, 100 percent full.
It would be nice, will be nice when however it remains unknown.
And how long between this Drought, and the next, will that yet to arrive one break existing records?

Can anyone verify if NSW Emergency Services Minister Mr David Elliott is going on holidays to Europe just days ahead of expected catastrophic fire conditions arising again in NSW?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/27/mural-mocking-scott-morrison-for-hawaii-holiday-during-bushfires-painted-over

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/25/barnaby-joyce-sick-government-being-in-my-life-taxes-climate-change

Barnaby Joyce says we need to respect God or we will get taxed or something like that.

Sorry I previously said...

"With left and right- Socialist Alternative will label Greenies as far left- it's somewhat relative"

I meant to say...

With left and right- Socialist Alternative will label Greenies as "far right"- it's somewhat relative