Does the Liberal Party have a future?

The Liberal Party of today is not the party that I
remember my parents, family, friends, and relatives
voted for and supported decades ago.

Today, the Liberal Party needs a Coalition to stay
in power. It is even soliciting support from One
Nation and the cross-benchers.

What has happened that the Party cannot survive in
its own right?

In its hey day the Party was supported by many
ethnic communities. Support today seems to be
dwindling.

Does anybody have the answers as to what's happening
and what the solutions are in solving the problems
of this once great political entity?

Much of what I said before the election remains true in my view Foxy'
As Liberalism wrestles with its various factions Labor will face a reality
The world is moving right, and Labor will continue to take the ground Liberals vacate
Every day it seems, at least sitting days, another bomb goes of in that party
Women are now front and center, and it is a problem they must fix
Still think a split is a possibility if not soon after the next election
Will watch with interest and hope but not bank on it, to see some Liberals with thoughts about what is needed

certainly doing much better under Morrison than Turnbull, Bishop, Banks and Pynne. They still lack the courage of convictions when wasting over a billion a year on the marxist abc broadcasters. Also need to rip up the fraudulent Paris agreement and start putting Aussies ahead of deceitful UN agenda's. Hopefully they will never cave to quotas and become as incompetent as the left leaning Labour party or are always in bed with Australia's biggest extremist (the Greens). Certainly Kristina Keneally looks hopelessly out of her depths in her portfolia. Seems like a very bad idea to have incompetent women filling quotas. Dutton is doing a good job along with Josh and Mattias.

Dear Belly and runner,

I used to think of the Liberal Party as a
"broad church" but is it really following the
general global trend towards the far right?

I'm not sure about the purpose of the Liberal
Party anymore, and what it stand for.

If the "broad church" Liberals go along with
this tilt to a conservative tilt - they will
find themselves in a very narrow Liberal
Party indeed - one that looks more like
One Nation with slightly more professional
marketing.

Is that really what they want to be?

What I found rather disturbing was that in
October last year the Australian Senate narrowly
voted down a motion condemning "anti-white
racism", despite government senators voting FOR
the controversial statement echoing alt-right
rhetoric.

The Senate voted 31 to 28 to reject a motion put
by Pauline Hanson which acknowledged the -

"deplorable rise of anti-white racism
and attacks on Western Civilisation," and Ït's
OK to be white."

(TBC)

HI Foxy

If the "broad church" Liberals go along with
this tilt to a conservative tilt - they will
find themselves in a very narrow Liberal
Party indeed - one that looks more like
One Nation with slightly more professional
marketing.

Certainly that is what I want although the truth is that Labour has drifted much to the left as shown by its policies at the last election. Once they were a partry that allowed conscience votes but now have become more totalitarian (yes I am serious). Again I consider the Greens far more extremist than One Nation or Fraser Anning. Labour is looking more and more like the Democrats in America who do nothing but play race politics and try to silence anyone who disagrees with them. The left certainly have the majority of media on their side. Thank God for skynews.

The one thing for sure is that it is difficult to predict people's voting intentions. One could say that people are voting more conservative but then you look at the way they voted for the Andrews Government. Few were able to predict Morrison's victory. I hope the Liberals toss out the regressives and become more conservative.

Pauline Hanson's motion received 23 votes
from the ruling Liberal-National Coalition.
The motion was opposed by Opposition
Labor and the Greens parties and several cross
bench senators.

It's unclear whether the Coalition was reviving race
politics or was it afraid of losing votes on its
conservative flank to One Nation.

Scott Morrison described as "regrettable" his
senators backing Pauline Hanson 28 to 31 while
the Coalition's leader in the Senate - Mathias
Cormann apologised and blamed it all as an -
"administrative error."

runner,

I fully understand your concerns. You're not
alone in the way you feel.

What has happened that the Party cannot survive in
its own right?
Foxy,
Due to past Labor policies the Demograpic of this Nation has changed so drastically that no one party encompasses the varied needs hence the need for a Coalition.

Individual,

Years ago - when my family supported the Liberal
Party they had policies that attracted the support.
So what has happened to change that?

Some exciting news.

Three months on from exiting federal politics
former Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has revealed
her next career move - and we're told that it's
another first.

She will be the next Chancellor of the Australian
National University in Canberra it has been
announced and she's the first woman to hold that
job - continuing her list of firsts.

I'm over the moon!

Well done - and well deserved!

The Liberal Party will always have a future because it is anti-socialist and it represents greed and selfishness, which appeals to the majority of Australians. The thing that will change about it is that its member will become increasingly Chinese.

You've got that drift all wrong Foxy. It is Labor who have moved far left, & under Turnbull the libs had drifted, or been pushed into the area of old Labor. Thankfully the Nationals have held them from total error, & they are slightly back towards the real world now.

Even so, real conservatives can only vote Liberal while holding their nose, or the smell of lefty rubbish may overwhelm them.

Can we ever get back to a country where the majority can support themselves, without government handouts at every turn. I doubt it, as someone said, democracy can not survive long term. Too soon too many people realise they can simply vote for a living, rather than work for one.

Yes there does appear to be a swing to the right in North America & some of Europe. Having just had the worst lefty President ever in the US, & the worst lefty PM ever currently in Canada will tend to cause that.

Whether it will last long enough to save western democracy, & whether it will penetrate enough here are doubtful questions. I'm just glad most of my life was in better times.

It will be interesting to see the reaction to the lefty clown the French are suffering under at present.

My first thought is that extreme ends of the political system have
swapped ends.
The right especially hard right are now hard left and use the name
antifad. They even dress in "Black Shirts" ala Mussolini's Black shirts.
They are in fact the Fascists. eg Deutscher Socialist Arbight Parti. ie NAZIs.
Those that were towards the left previously and who used to rabbit on
about civil rights etc have now moved into the middle of the right wing.
I think many who were disillusioned will return to the Liberal Party.
It just needs Scomo to listen more and jump on people who are trying
to shut up people just because they say thing "they" do not like.

The Greens, well that joke has worn thin especially if these latest
scientific findings that Global Warming is a natural cycle and CO2
is not a problem gets confirmed.

My view will confront yet it is my honestly well thought out view The recent election saw Labor offer very strong Social policies
Voters rejected them, but too many rejected Bill Shorten yes and rejected us and the greens
Liberals however won the worst election for them to win
Always the party of self entitlement, they have forgotten [as seen in jobs for the boys and girls] voters remember
The water and grass scandals, will further damage them
Labor, understanding only from the government benches will they achieve anything, will see they must follow the voters not the very left
As we near our next GFC would rather be in Labors shoes than Liberals

Jesus Foxy, they just won yet another unwinnable election. Yet here you are talking about their demise.

Sure their policies aren't what they were back in the day, but then no parties policies are such. Times change. Parties keep up. You ought to try as well.

Its always amused me that the supporters of the losing party, immediately after the election, start telling the winners that they really have to implement the losing policies if they want to remain in power. Its like the losing AFL team instructing the winners how to kick straight.

I didn't vote Lib this time, but I know that they won because the electorate trusted their leadership to hold a safe course while they worried that the Labs were heading down a dangerous path.

"the Liberal Party needs a Coalition to stay
in power."

Conservative parties have had coalitions to form government every election since 1922.

1922
1922. A hundred years ago. And Foxy thinks its a sign of weakness.

Honestly Foxy, if you're not 101% sure of your 'facts' please don't mention them. It demeans your arguments and I'm so weary of having to point out the errors.

They've formed government with like-minded parties for a century and I suspect they'll continue to do so. If I were you I'd be much more concerned about the Labs. Albo needs to find a way to drag the party back to the centre, but will outrage the left of his party by doing so. And they are very much of the 'Crash through or crash' mentality.

We consistently hear on the news the problems of
the Liberal Party. We heard all the disunity,
the in-fighting, the plots, the scheming, to get
rid of a leader prior to the election, the number
of resignations, of people leaving in disgust.
Dirty politics all round.

We hard about -

The need to attract more younger
voters, and women, the need to give more variety to
pre-selection candidates, female assault complaints,
money laundering at the Casino in Melbourne, and
political donations from Chinese members of the
communist party, and others, dual citizenship accusations,
corruption, water issues, sex scandals, and lately of -
allowing extremists, political career bigots like
the Right-Wing Raheem Kassam to come to Australia.

The list goes on.

Is politics a football game or should it be a united
entity - implementing the best policies in the
interests of the nation?

Most people want to know that their government is getting
on with the job of governing and running the nation.
They don't want to see more internal and external problems.

Can Scott Morrison deliver us from the recent scourges
the country has experienced?

The Liberal Party has been elected for a variety of complex
reasons. However it is now up to them to show the voters
will they be able to deliver good governance for all
Australians as promised.

I believe in generational change in the Liberal
Party. It is time for the young people of
talent and ability, of whom there are many, to
be given their go in the Liberal Party.

And also for women.

The Liberal Party can't continue to keep losing
really good and talented people like Julie Bishop
and others.

I remember a journalist asking Peter Costello's wife
Tanya, " Mrs Costello, cam I ask you what you think of
your husband's decision?" When Peter Costello resigned.

She replied:

" CJ Dennis, the well known and well-loved Australian
poet wrote in a series of poems entitled the Songs of
the Sentimental Bloke the following lines, and I think
that's where I am and where Peter is:

Yeh live, yeh love, yeh learn, an'when yeh come
To square the ledger in some thortful hour,
The everlastin'answer to the sun
Must allus be, 'Where's sense in gettin'sour?'

Livin' an' lovin - so life mooches on."

That's where the Liberal Party also is currently.

Foxy,

For all the issues with the coalition, the fact that the coalition won yet again indicates how bad the labor opposition must be!!

The problems labor have is the corruption in QLD labor, the subservience of all labor governments to the corrupt and lawless unions, the tax and spend policies that pillage retirement savings, the wildly illogical climate change policies that will ruin the economy, etc.

SM,

Labor is not in government and what I would like
to see from you is not finger-pointing at Labor
but an actual discussion on the future of the
Liberal Party, its potential growth, and how it can
stay in power and develop Australia's standing on
the global stage.

Your thoughts please?

Unlikely Foxy, the LNP runs on lies fear and half truths
It constantly avoids its own faults as its followers here do to
Time will prove they need to reconsider who they are and what do they want to achieve

Foxy,

Considering your finger pointing at the LNP I'll take your last post with a pinch of salt.

Belly,

Considering the outrageous fear mongering and pure BS coming from Labor, I will also take your post with a pinch of salt.

The LNP / Nat coalition has been around since 1923, and has always been a broad church, the party has changed with the times and the global politics as the working class has become more affluent and in turn more concerned with maintaining their new wealth than progressive issues. The party will continue to evolve as the world and the issues change.

The labor party on the other hand seem to abandoned it working class base, and have to have taken up the mantle of the new left, absorbing without question the identity politics and radical CC agendas. (pretty much like the democratic party in the US)

The last election was labor's to win, but instead of settling down and moving the needle slightly to the left they forged ahead with a tax and spend agenda that gave Scomo ammunition to defeat them.

As long a labor keeps on thinking that its agenda is the right one and they only need to sell it better the LNP has a long and bright future in government.

Well, am I the first to notice that Foxy has really exposed where she
lives politically ?

Foxy said;
and lately of -
allowing extremists, political career bigots like
the Right-Wing Raheem Kassam to come to Australia.

Foxy is in fact a Lefty censor of other peoples opinions and speech.
Foxy does in fact belong to the far left.
Have you bought your Black Shirt yet ?
I guess you might be too old to turn out for for the next
demo against someone who says something you do not like.
They do have a habit of picking on oldies.
I have never heard of this latest non-person that must be gagged.
Now I really want to hear what he has to say.
If the Lefties don't like it, then maybe there is some value in it.

So apparently we want the Libs to become, or remain (?), a broad church while being a "united entity". Anyone else see a problem with that reasoning?

The fact that the Liberals seem to be always arguing internally is I
think a good thing. Take the matter of nuclear power.
There is a real crisis in electricity generation coming over the horizon.
A few people are realising that while in a country the size of Australia
may well be able to have a reliable 100% wind and solar system the real
problem is that we cannot afford it. I know, I know, wind and solar is
cheaper and it is UNTIL you have to chase the wind around Australia
with a very high capacity grid.
The fact that politicians are arguing about this is a VERY good thing !

And standby for another really aggravated argument.
Two groups of scientists have confirmed what Abbot & Marohasy reported
in 2017 that global warming is a natural event cycle.
These new studies from Finland and Japan have gone further and state
that they believe it is caused by sunspots and cosmic rays on cloud formation.
The other result is that CO2 has almost no significance.

Now this all very new info and it will have to be confirmed and repeated by others.
But watch it hit the fan when it does surface.
Imagine the argument in the Liberal Party on that !
There won't be an argument in the Labour Party, the Greens won't allow it.

'Two groups of scientists have confirmed what Abbot & Marohasy reported
in 2017 that global warming is a natural event cycle.
These new studies from Finland and Japan have gone further and state
that they believe it is caused by sunspots and cosmic rays on cloud formation.
The other result is that CO2 has almost no significance.'

you are acting as if facts really matter in the debate Bazz. Surely by now the mulitudes of facts have exposed the lying fraudulent gw scam. It makes no difference to regressives. They simply move on to their next group of lies. Look at the whole Russian collusion conspiracy that the lying Liberal media banged on about for years. No apology, no acknowledgement of lies and yet nothing to see. Facts do not matter in marxist ideology. Simple as that and as soon as conservatives stop playing idiotic games with the UN the better.

"Now this all very new info "

Bazz,

Actually, the hypothesis isn't new. It was proposed at least 2 decades ago by Svensmark and has been studied ever since. This information you refer to is additional data in favour of the hypothesis.

The idea has been completely rejected by the IPCC (big surprise eh!) but my impression is that more and more scientists are coming around to the idea and consider it at least part of the solution toward explaining changes in global temperatures in both directions.

While on the issue, 90 Italian scientists have sent a petition to their government urging it to adopt a more realistic policy toward climate change and pollution. Part of the petition reads..."the anthropogenic origin of global warming IS AN UNPROVEN HYPOTHESIS, deduced only from some climate models, that is complex computer programs, called General Circulation Models . On the contrary, the scientific literature has increasingly highlighted the existence of a natural climatic variability that the models are not able to reproduce."

Craig Kelly is all over the issue (the above is his translation). I wonder if he's part of that 'broad church' some want?

http://abruptearthchanges.com/2019/07/07/90-leading-italian-scientists-sign-petition-anthropogenic-origin-of-global-warming-is-an-unproven-hypothesis-catastrophic-predictions-not-realistic/

Runner & Mhaze,
yes I agree the argument will be difficult to press.
I was not aware that it is a quite old theory.
The part I found interesting was about the digging it out of the noise
of proxy temperature measurements by using techniques used in radio astronomy.
A friend of mine who at CSIRO was involved in inventing wifi use of
that technique would have been thrilled about that if he had not died last year.
I think that the whole idea will be hard to deny at the IPCC level
when it get taken seriously. The application of well proven
mathematical techniques will peel off a lot of the opposition.
All this of course will need further confirmation & repeating.

The real problem will be that so much money and academic and political
prestige has been invested into the current mindset that the Pope's
condemnation of Galileo will seem like a polite tea party discussion.

So what has happened to change that?
Foxy,
As I said changed Demographic.

Labor has gone from helping the working class to totally exploiting it !

Shadow Minister,

The Electorate did not warm to Mr Shorten. Particularly
in Queensland. They saw him as a southern trade unionist
with a green agenda. None of this appealed to regional
Queenslanders who were keen to get the extractive
industries moving to generate blue collar jobs.

Labor's campaign was all about policies. Labor was unable
to counter the effect of the Libs negative campaign. The
Libs attacked the proposals to curb negative gearing
and franking credit rebates - but Labor did not have
a popular leader to sell the policies. It was very much
about - don't trust Bill Shorten.

We'll probably never again see an Opposition go to the
polls with a detailed policy manifesto.

Now back to the topic...

I'll ask you again to discuss what the future is of the
Liberal Party. I have pointed out some of the problems
including their past leadership turmoil. Labor lost the
election and it is the Coalition who are currently in power.
The question is - what do they need to do to reform and
stay in government and more to the point what should they
do with the power that they have been given?

We know that they do have problems (their staff exodus
shows that). Problems do exist.

The stage is yours.

Foxy about two weeks into the campaign it became clear Bill was lead in our saddlebags
Election day, watching workers in their high vis gear snarl and walk past me showed we had about ten percent of our own, disliking him'
No horse wins a race with that much lead in its saddlebags
Poor understanding of policy,poor ability to sell himself by Bill beat us
As long as conservatives think otherwise it is ok by me

Dear Belly,

I still think we live in the best country in the
world - with the best governments anywhere.
No matter who's in power and how much we may
criticise them - our system works. It's done
well by us over the decades.

Of course that's not to say it can't be improved
even further.

where the majority can support themselves, without government handouts at every turn.
Hasbeen,
Agree, but to function like that requires a Govt that provides the foundation for incentive instead of persecuting it ! The Morrison Govt appears to be working towards that but it's one thing to start a race & another to finish it !
I maintain that THE ONLY way is the reintroduction of a National Service scheme. I see no other scheme that could instil the discipline & mentality for people to be reasonable citizens. Drug dependency is definitely not part of it !

Australia is about to become the Unlucky Country, heading down the road of a failed banana republic. There is nothing about Australia that I would say is sustainable, especially population which is double what it should be and its environment which is now being devastated by climate change and overuse.

And therein lies the raison d'etat of those in denial about global warming and its consequential climate change because they need to establish the idea of an eternally sustainable planet to shore up their delusions that we can have endless economic growth and development without any consequences.

Foxy Mr Opinion love what we have, but know we can do better only [in my view] Labor gets reform right [and fair]
I hope and believe a future reforming Labor in power will get it right
So right that after it serves three terms the then Liberals, may actually look at returning to the ground it once owned, away from its march to the right

Bazz wrote: "The real problem will be that so much money and academic and political prestige has been invested into the current mindset..."

Max Planck once opined "Science advances one funeral at a time."

Reputations, careers and wealth have been built around the whole CO2 story and the high priests of the movement will not easily surrender their positions. Entire organisations as well as government departments and political careers are reliant on the continued acceptance of the CO2 hypothesis.

It will take new eyes and willingness to consider new ideas to slowly breakdown the edifice that AGW has become. But as more and more scientists look at alternate thinking and begin to pursue new/old ideas like that of the Svensmark theory, things will slowly change. Then we'll suddenly see some media come to realise that there's a story there and the flood-gates will open. If you look back at how the 'Plate Tectonics' theory was originally fiercely reject by 'the consensus' but eventually broke through, you'll get some idea how this will evolve around AGW. But there are a lot more people invested in AGW so it'll take a lot more effort and time for the theory to be overturned. Things like the Italian petition (see above) are steps in the right direction and may encourage others to step forward, one hopes.

There's plenty of data and support out therefore for the Svensmark theory but this has always been my favourite summary of it...
http://calderup.wordpress.com/category/3b-the-svensmark-hypothesis/

Dear Belly,

The only form of political system that has a chance of saving humankind from its own destruction is a socialist one. It is the only one that can control human progress equitably. Unbridled capitalism with its increasing global consumerism and unsustainable use of the planet's resources will bring humankind to extinction.

Unbridled capitalism with its increasing global consumerism and unsustainable use of the planet's resources will bring humankind to extinction.
I agree with that but not the first part re socialism. In my work I found the socialists (Labor voting public servants) to be the far more greedy !

Dear individual,

You didn't by any chance make a living as a comic book writer did you?

I wonder, was Mr O indoctrinated to radicalism at university, or was he already a radical ratbag before he got there.

Come on Mr O, stop monkeying around, give us your full communist blast.

Mr Opinion well a truth both sides of the house in fact had Socialist policy in part until about Howards win
Health education housing welfare infrastructure, the list is long
Capitalism with a heart is my view of what we can achieve
Scandals however like the recent banking royal commission, and the almost hidden crimes of scomos refugees [members] may along with the coming GFC drive a socialist return

It's funny how the media and Labor still claim that the Liberals are 'conservative'. While there may be some actual conservatives within its ranks, the party is not conservative in the social or cultural sense. Most of its members could be described as neoliberals economically and left-liberals socially/culturally.

Paul Collits has an interesting piece on the state of Australian conservatism here: http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2019/07/the-accelerating-rise-of-nationalist-conservatism/

He writes:

"Australian conservatism, as represented in the Parliament, is notoriously philosophy-free, pragmatic and generally focused on the shenanigans of party politics and its personalities. The dominant intellectual strain among the think tanks here has been that same libertarianism which seems now to be on the nose among the emerging US nationalist conservatives. The Institute of Public Affairs and the Centre for Independent Studies seem still to have as their main focus in the era of Folau the grasping, regulatory State, when the State is far from the only enemy, even the main enemy, of personal freedom. In any event, the libertarian strain of the Australian right has as its main game “the right to have views” in the public square, and not, as the social conservative base would have it, the importance of defending “the right views” in the public square. Ironically, most libertarians would probably agree with the progressive critics of the Christian right’s “outdated” views, while at the same time defending the latter’s right to have those views.

Nor has there been a genuine accommodation of these philosophical strands within the Liberal Party, other than in the interests of that party’s tedious pragmatism born of the endless yearning for ministerial leather that is embedded in the party’s DNA. Moreover, reflecting Daniel McCarthy’s comments noted above, many, perhaps most, of the now dominant leftist faction in the Liberal Party would find the views of Australian conservatives far more abhorrent than the views of the progressive Left on the core concerns of our times."

My view is that the Liberal Party is worthless and exists largely as a vehicle to maintain power. For actual conservatives, the Liberals are, at best, a profound disappointment and, at worst, perfidious.

Just to change the direction somewhat.

Peter Dutton has granted a visa to British right-wing
provocateur to visit Australia to speak at the
Conservative Political Action Conference being held
in Sydney next week. Labor has described him as an
extremist and a "career bigot" who spreads hate speech.

Peter Dutton argued that Australia was a country that
embraced free speech and as long as debate was civil it
was important to have a variety of views.

However, visas were denied to David Icke, Holocaust
denier and British conspiracy theorist, former footballer
and sports broadcaster, author of 20 books and also to
Gavin McInnes - far-right campaigner and founder of the
Proud Boys (he cut his ties with them in 2018). His visa
was denied on "character grounds".

Mr Kassam is set to appear along side his former boss
Nigel Farage and former PM Tony Abbott at the
Conservative Political Action Conference.

Australians do have a right to free speech but due to
Kassam's previous reprehensible comments -
one of which was suggesting Scotland's PM Nicola Sturgeon
should have her legs taped shut so she can't
reproduce - and his extreme views, should we be at all
concerned that his views are being made mainstream by
some members of the Liberal Party?

Why ban some and allow other extremists?

What I find so perplexing is those who literally live off the proceeds of Capitalism condemn Capitalism & pronounce Socialism, which squanders most proceeds, as the answer to our social woes ! Are people really that stupid ?

Foxy yes and in doing that shouts Dutton at least is a conservative our new poster [at least to me] is welcomed
But until voters engage and start to understand the LNP are here to stay
I know my lurch to the right of center offends some
But as I believe only Labor can bring change I know Labor must change too
Those on the left tell me constantly voters left us because Labor is too far right
Tell me then who are these refugees voting for? ten percent greens yes true
The rest however must be voting LNP or more likely do not exist

Individual,

Yes. Obviously. But I'm enjoying this thread, with Mr Apprentice-Opinionated coming outwith his juvenile [Hey, been there, done that, so I can't crow] Utopian dreams. And no, whoever asked what had Mr. O. learnt from uni - don't blame him, he hasn't got there yet.

Correct me if I got it wrong, but I thought the Libs won the election. And that Labor lost it, and may well lose the next one too. It's a bit rich talking about Coalition problems when Labor and the Greens haven't yet sorted out how they lost. The first step to success is to admit realities. The Labor Party abandoned its working-cass base, chasing the Green vote: simple as that. Can Albanese control his impulses (and his front bench) and bring Labor back towards the centre ?

As it happens, I voted for my local Labor candidate: very nice woman, very dedicated. And No. 1 for Lucy Gichuhi for the Senate. That didn't work out so well.

Joe

Dear Belly,

I think that most people's opinions will vary
depending on the issues involved. We tend
to be progressive on some issues and
conservative on others. It more complex then
just labels. And therefore political parties
also have to take notice and listen to the
voters. Something that I think Labor did not fully
do during the last election - where many fears were
not fully and properly explained.

I'll also repeat what I wrote to Shadow Minister
earlier.

The Electorate did not warm to Mr Shorten. Particularly
in Queensland. They saw him as a southern unionist with a
green agenda. None of this appealed to regional
Queenslanders who were keen to get the extractive industries
moving to generate blue collar jobs.

Labor's campaign was all about policies. Labor was unable to
counter the effect of the Liberal's negative fear campaign.
The Liberals attacked the proposals to curb negative
gearing and franking credit rebates but Labor did not have
a popular leader to sell the policies. It was very much about -
don't trust Bill Shorten.

We'll probably never again see an Opposition go to the polls with
a detailed policy manifesto.

Yes. nobody is denying that the Libs won the election.
However, what needs to be examined is will they be able to
stay in power and what should they do to ensure that, and how
should they use their power now? Obviously problems exist
as we've seen from the leadership turmoils, and the exodus
of many capable and talented people. Labor would have
learned their lesson. Will the Liberals have learned theirs?

Liberal's negative fear campaign.
Foxy,
Why is telling facts a fear campaign ? Facts such as Labor can't manage is not pushing fear, it's a well known fact ! The Coalition is not much better but better they are & that's what matters to people.

Dear individual,

Talking about your Coalition govt, wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall at the AUSMIN Summit?

To me it looks like the US is calling in its chips and wanting ScuMo to make a choice about whether he stands with the US or China in what could be a major military confrontation looming between the two as tensions escalate over their struggle to control the global economy.

Do you think ScuMo will give the nod for the US to deploy missiles in Australia or do you think he will let them know that Australia has a Chinese future?

There is no reason why the average person would care about about 'the Liberal party and its future', particularly as about 40% of them wouldn't even bother to vote if they weren't forced to. Young people are markedly disinterested in politics. You might as well ponder the future of any political party. However, we know that this question is being asked by a Lefist - so far left that she imagines that the Liberal party is controlled by the sinister Right. Nothing could be further from the truth, of course, given the leadership of Turnbull and now Morrison, and the party branches, particularly in the Eastern states; West of the Blue Mountains, you wouldn't know that there are any branches. In SA, the Liberals are so wet, that Pauline Hanson has decided that it is well worth her while to register One Nation in the state ready for the next state election.

The Liberal party is just another collection of self-serving politicians, little different from the other bunch: their only 'pride' lying in the gradually disappearing, slightly less than Labor, screwing of the population via the climate fraud, increases in energy prices, loss of jobs, globalisation and 'free' trade. On mass immigration, kowtowing to the UN, and freedom of speech, there is no difference. The accidental Prime Minister's only interest in free speech is it 'doesn't create a single job'.

What is needed is not one-sided bigotry like this thread represents; we need to start looking hard at all the parties and politicians stuffing up our country, before we end up with a leader like the PM' friend, President Xi

Foxy and others valuing truth so here it comes ,my work in the federal election was not as intense as in the states one
I got ripped off, money owed was not then paid, near a pension check [person not party]
I got it, with help, but would have as it was wrong
I never TRULY let on my doubts about Bill, many would have heard me even seen in print, my view he was not the brilliant man I knew
Polling day, very very sick, I manned my booth and then it started
Young mid twenties tradies wife reached for my HTV husband said you do and you walk home
That booth was in an underprivileged area
two in ten took my HTV in a booth we never won ever we went backwards
Tourists, voting absentee,took not quite half of my HTV
clearly Labor, even if in the end it was closer, needed Albo, but we elected him 6 years before, and the PARTY MACHINE betrayed us

Isn't it the nsw Liberal party trying to legislate the murder of the unborn babies up to birth. They must have some very sick thinking members.

To me what made the last election singular was
the impact of a quarter of voters preferring minor
parties as their first preference.

Scott Morrison has a gift for over-simplification,
just as one example - he framed the complex franking
credits issue into the "retirement tax" scare.

He is undoubtedly a Liberal Hero - having won an
"unwinnable" election. However the party now has
to tell us what is their agenda beyond the "tax plan."
Because issues around climate and energy remain.
And these are difficult ones internally for the
Coalition.

US Secretary of State is currently visiting Australia.
And China, North Korea, and Iran appear to be on the
agenda.

The Australian newspaper reminds us that Scott Morrison
has in the past vowed that Australia will not stand by
"passively"as China and the US slug it out in a global
power contest, and that he will act in Australia's
security and economic interests if the super power
relationship continues to deteriorate.

Mr Morrison has stated that he would call on both
countries to act in the global interest and not just
their own, urging them to de-escalate tensions as
other countries seek to re-balance their own interests in
the face of a new world order.

Our Prime Minister has stated while making a deliberate show
of support for the US position - suggesting it had a big issue
with China - yet asking for a balanced approach to
resolving any disputes, saying nations have an obligation to
exercise power responsibly.

We shall have to wait and see what the PM will tell Mike
Pompeo. Hopefully it shall continue to be - that
Australia considers requests from its allies on their merits
and most importantly whether they are in the interests of
Australia and its national security.

Dear Foxy,

ScuMo is the most cunning Australian politician I have ever seen and he is only concerned about one thing: getting re-elected which he devotes his constant energy to achieving.

He didn't win the 'unwinnable' election, he bought it by (1) offering Labor voters $1,000 each of taxpayers money to switch to LNP and (2) from preference votes from Clive Palmer whom I think was undoubtedly bankrolled by someone for the purpose of retrieving LNP votes that were obviously headed to Labor. Who bankrolled Clive Palmer? is a question we will have to leave to the historians to answer.

Mitigating anthropogenic global warming and its consequential climate change are not part of his agenda because like Tony Abbott he believes that God gave mankind dominion over everything. A couple of religious nutjobs as could ever be found!

runner,

Yes, they are, and they are hiding behind an independent to do it, trying to hide the fact that a Liberal government is doing Green Labor's dirty work for them. Closer and closer to China-style One Party government.

The usual lies and myths that abortion is about about women's reproductive rights and health care. But it is just about killing unborn babies

I suppose you think that Euthanasia and
the Right to Die legislation is about killing
and getting rid of the elderly.

That same sex marriage was not about equality.

That all Australians are equal and that Indigenous
people should not have a guaranteed say in laws and
policies that are made about their affairs.

We get it.

Dear Foxy,

I don't think ScuMo can keep playing the US off against China any longer, pretending he is some sort of international mediator when in fact he is just a big yobbo from the Shire.

I think the US has played along with his antics but they are now letting him know that they want a commitment from him. So he now has to put up his hand for one side or the other. I don't think the US will take kindly to it if he does not give them the nod to put missiles into Australia as a countermeasure to China's annexation of the South China Sea.

Dear Mr Opinion,

I think it would be a big mistake to under estimate
our Prime Minister. I think he is a very clever man.

Dear Foxy,

You think he's clever; I think he's cunning. Let's see who he decides to back in what looks like being a belligerent confrontation between the US and China in the struggle to dominate the global economy.

Folks he is smart and some voters believe him
So he will not be easy to remove, unless, we are indeed entering a recession
Or if Albo is not the man I think I know he is
Nevertheless hope to see the next election
RIP the victims of two mass murders in America today

Dear Belly,

With Mike Pompeo in Sydney currently - we need to
ask - will Australia be asked to join a US led
Coalition aimed at protecting shipping in the
Persian Gulf?

The Middle East is just one area of concern.

The other is the growing dominance of China in the
Pacific region.

Dear Foxy,

I think it is obvious that Australia will be asked to participate in opposing Iran. Problem is Iran is a client state of China and ScuMo doesn't want to upset China.

And of course the US will want to deploy missiles in Australia as a countermeasure to China's annexation of the South China Sea as well as any further military expansion by China into the South Pacific. (It's just like the start of the Japan-US Pacific War all over again.) This is a bigger problem for ScuMo because it's a direct slap in the face to Beijing.

The dilemma for ScuMo is that he has to make a decision: China or the US? There's no more opportunity to play one off against the other and I think he's in a lose-lose situation.

I think [and it concerns me] both sides will support our Navy getting involved in the safe passage fleet
Not sure it is the wrong thing to do, in fact Iran is a ratbag nation that must b stopped
But worried that war is eventually going to start because of such actions

Dear Belly,

Who do you mean by 'both sides will support our Navy getting involved'? Do you mean both the US and China? I don't think so! What we are watching might turn out to be the makings of World War 3. WW1 was a conflict over empire building; WW2 was due to the handling of Germany by the victors of WW1; and WW3 will most likely be all about the struggle between the US and China over control of the world economy.

What do you think ScuMo will do?

Dear Belly and Mr Opinion,

I have no idea what our PM is going to do.

If I had to guess, I'd say he's going to support
the decision of the US and we shall get involved
in Iran if the US asks us to.

But we'll have to wait and see.

I'd like to Thank everyone who contributed to
this discussion. It seems that it is running
out of steam.

I look forward to our next discussion.

Enjoy your day.

Mr Opinion Foxy to clarify it is my view Labor and the government will support the proposed call it blockade
But both will do it as part of the English contribution
Because they do not want to get China offside
Too that the bitter [maybe with some justification]
Iran leadership must be stopped
I am not convinced Trump canceled that deal for any sound reason
Iran however has by its actions gone too far

What do you think ScuMo will do?
Mr Opinion,
What would YOU do ?
I would support joining forces to keep the oil flowing & those against it can get their oil/products somewhere else at their cost !

You are all ignoring the most powerful actor in this game.
The Insurance companies.
They will decide if ships use the Strait.
If they say NO ! Then we all starve.
All except the US. They have enough of their own, they do not use ME oil.
These are the rules of the game.

Foxy,

Shorten wasn't popular largely because of his dodgy past, but he was still more popular than Tony Abbott who thrashed labor in 2013.

The problem for labor in QSL was largely that having won the state election the labor government went hard left and in doing so alienated most of the people living outside central Brisbane. Bob Brown's caravan of Melbourne inner city greenies went down like lead balloon and probably sealed the deal for the LNP. Notably that in WA where supposedly there was strong support for state labor, federal labor made no progress either.

In my opinion, Labor's downfall was relying on feedback from labor faithful and assuming that the rest of the country would come in line.

Not near as much dodgy past as some think
Believing Conservative propaganda is fooling some
Bit shocked at his so called sexual assault or whatever it was
He lost contact with workers over that poor agreement, [no union should ever forget the exist for the worker not the boss]
Yes he was not trusted by enough to swing the election

While the Labor party are foolish enough to elect sharp operators like Shorten, & totally out of his depth fools like Albanese as their leaders, I'd say the Libs have more future than they currently deserve.

I think the current swing is towards more and more
Independents and this trend will continue. People
are getting sick and tired of slogans, toeing the
party line, finger-pointing,
and most of all, excuses which include -
inaction on climate change, Newstart, Energy, and
last but not least - corruption. Crown Casino comes
to mind and needs investigation.

Did anyone watch Q&A last night?

I've not seen so many aggressive questions
from the audience addressed to both the
Liberal and Labor MPs. People appeared angry and
frustrated. The only person who did well was
Zali Steggall - the Independent.

While ever people like Hasbeen are willing to bad mouth the Labor party and Albo based only on his biases we will progress toward government
Albo wears nothing of the taint Bill did and he is the right man at the right time
51 Billion wiped off the stock exchange today, if this continues?
Nothing is forever even John Howard fell

Dear Belly,

Have a look at what Scott Morrison put in place as
perks for former PMs - and tell me you think they're fair:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/30/tony-abbott-gets-100000-raise-on-backbenchers-salary-now-he's-a-retired-pm

Close to $300,000 dollar pension a year for life, plus
an office, postage and publishing paid for, plus travel
expenses for himself, wife, and a staff member - 30 return
trips a year, and the list goes on.

No wonder people go into politics. Look at the incentives.

Sorry.

Here's the link again:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/30/tony-abbott-gets-100000-raise-on-backbenchers-salary-now-hes-a-retired-pm

And he'll probably get a high paying job from one of his
cronies as well.

Who said Life wasn't meant to be easy?

They were talking to the rest of us poor plebs.

Tony Abbott is no longer in the parliament.

The Labor Party lost the election and still doesn't know why.

An article in today's extreme-right-wing rag, The Australian, lists the Labor seats which they won only with massive (80 %) Greens preferences.

Albanese is in the Left faction of the Labor Party, which depends on Greens preferences. Is there any chance that Albanese and the Labour Party will move back the centre ? Gosh, perhaps not.

So it's the unopposed hunting ground for the Libs.

So who's in trouble, again ?

Joe

'Did anyone watch Q&A last night?'

have not watched the marxist propaganda Foxy since being able to get sky free to air. So refreshing to listen to people who can think past the socialist dogma. And to think they don't need a billion dollars a year to push their agenda. Also their is still a lightness (with a couple of exceptions) with the sky broadcasters still thrilled about Morrisons win and the absolute fools the democrats have made of themselves in America by conjuring up conspiracies on Trump and Russian collusion. Quite entertaining. You should broaden your horizon. They even throw in a few token lefties who they must pay a lot to have their foolishness exposed.

runner,

Sorry but I really can't stomach Sky news.
The day that they allow for a variety of opposing views
is the day that may peak my interest. At present their
reporting leaves a lot to be desired. It's a shame that
you don't watch the various viewpoints on Q&A where the
audience asks the questions. Where its not staged - and
especially as we saw last night - where the pollies are
forced to give answers from their voters.

Tony Abbott may no longer be in Parliament but
he's certainly raking in the benefits - thanks
to his mate Morrison.

Unopposed hunting ground for the LIbs?

Like One Nation, and the Chinese billionaires?
Like money laundering at Crown?

Nice.

'It's a shame that
you don't watch the various viewpoints on Q&A where the
audience asks the questions.'

sorry Foxy years and years of the same old dribble. Read again how they planted another socialist crying poor last night. Same old alarmist propaganda for over a decade of the gw scam. As predictable as the sun coming up in the morning.

The title of this thread is "THE LIBERAL PARTY AND IT'S FUTURE?", with the implication (I assumed) that the Liberal Party is in some sort of turmoil, or at some existential terminus. Gosh, really ?

Of course, its MPs may be up to their elbows in 'donations' from organisations like crown Casino, I couldn't possibly comment, but i don't think the Libs are in much trouble. It's their banquet for the next three years.

Joe

Ah, there's banquets and there's "banquets."

Each to their own.

And the Libs are in trouble if they don't deliver.

Judging from news reports - there's many disgruntled voice
out there already.

Need to keep up.

Even though I've literally forced myself to watch Q&A, I simply have to switch Channel after about 10 minutes.
The selected audience along with selected anti Conservative panels ganging up on a lone Coalition member is just too sickening to bear !
An utter & total misrepresentation of normal, wealth producing Australia by hangers-on perpetually biting the hands that feed them !

Individual,

I wish that you'd watched the entire episode of
Q&A - because it did pick up and was very
challenging to all sides of politics. One lady
in particular (in her sixties) made some very valid
points about Newstart concerning her own experiences.

Anyway, I recently read an article by Peter van Onselen
who wrote about the Liberal Party and its future
direction.

He wrote that attaining power seemed to be a priority for
the Liberal Party, retaining it came a close second and
knowing what to do with it was another matter.

Van Onselen talked about the fact that patronage of
power has become the primary goal for many players from
BOTH major parties. The trappings of office, the cars,
the travel, the extra staff and of course the salaries
matter as much, if not more so, than do the opportunities
for reform.

He stated that the pursuit of reform becomes something
functionaries who feel strongly about retaining power are
cautious about because "doing stuff"as one minister put
it to van Onselen - entails risk.

Van Onselen summed up by stating that it would be great
if younger MPs wee to start to push for more reform of
and discussion about political ideas rather than using
the current pitch of a return to the "steady hand" of
the Howard era.

But the risk for the Liberal Party renewal as van Onselen
sees it is that younger generation is nor more idea-
focused than the older frontbenchers - many of whom the
younger MPs worked for as their political staff.

I have to admit that when Scott Morrison won the recent
election - I was rather optimistic. Hoping that we shall
see some changes. Of course it's only early days yet
and we do have to wait and see. He is a very clever
man - and just may surprise us yet.

One can only live and hope. I remain optimistic.

Individual in your attitude I see why I will forever stand against true conservatives
This government while in the hands of true conservatives is named ,quite wrongly, Liberal
Once both side knew in part to run a country that values fairness some things have to remain in public hands
Socialism in action, even under your mob
I hope my gut feeling the the coming GFC will hurt so many it brings about a surge away from conservatism is to come true
If not, if profit rules over people, we will be a country manufacturing poor people so some can be rich

Belly,
I give up with you on this one because no matter how many times I tell you that I'm not a Liberal, you refer to me as one.. Here it is for all to read I'm a Conservative & I vote for the LNP & other Conservatives simply to keep the non-sensical Academic bureaucrats in the ALP away from the steering wheel for Australia. Why ? Because I care about this Nation & I have lived through what Labor has done. The only policy they got right was Superannuation but it shall never replace the old age Pension until the working class can afford to live on Super only! I think that Super should be voluntary ! The way things are now, those who pi$$ed their wages up against the wall get more support from this Govt than those who saved & practised resrtraint. No good telling us to do this'n that towards retirement when Govts change the goal posts at the last minute ! Govt MUST give people the opportunity if they expect them to pull their weight. Asking them to pull the weight of the whole of the Public service & the permanently by choice unemployed is just too much !
Just take a $ 1000 & buy fuel, pay rego, food & rent & tell me how much of it is Tax ?

Indy will you be happy in a world that has no health care unless you can pay
No public transport no subsidised education, power, no hospitals for those who can not pay
How about no pensions
Are you unconcerned at LNP ministers getting jobs on massive wages in the industries they once represented
Happy with massive pensions for them hunger for some of us
TAX well reformed well used is the only way to run a country

Foxy,

That you find sky news one sided yet the ABC balanced shows that your sense of values are far to the left. Does it not trouble you that the Q&A panels and audiences are always stacked with left whingers with perhaps a token conservative?

I readily admit that sky news bias is conservative, but no more than the bias of the ABC to the left. The main difference is that the ABC is paid with my taxes and fails miserably to maintain its mandate to eschew bias.

That the main political powers primarily struggle for power is an oxymoron, as a political party in opposition is largely irrelevant. That "doing stuff" is risky is also an oxymoron with the kicker that the risk is for the electorate not the pollies. However, risk can be mitigated by making change incrementally through evolution rather than revolution. Labor history of grand new policies have almost always come with a huge baggage of unintended consequences.

Labor's last offering of a tax and spend budget was actually harking back to the policies of the 70s which have been roundly rejected years ago.

Shadow Minister,

Again with the labelling. So tedious.
So predictable.

I don't find Q&A stacked at all. It gives the
percentages at the beginning of each show and
the number of conservatives in the audience
always outnumbers the progressives.

Commercial media organisations produce news and
current affairs to a very different criteria than
those laid down by the ABC's Charter.
Privately owned media are subject to commercial
imperatives that aren't present in the ABC.
Commercial organisations are not as committed
to public interest journalism - it is not their
sole purpose - their commercial interests come
first.

For me 12 cents a day is good value - given the quality
of the ABC's output overall and I think its a good
deal for the Australian taxpayer.

I'm not going to allow any private media proprietor,
to tell me otherwise.

Foxy Sky is an illness within the medea world
It more than anything is a propaganda factory for the rich and infamous [LNP, REPUBLICAN PARTY]
Still it is watched by the elderly, the uninformed intent on remaining uninformed
And a small group of bigots who need their hate recharged
QxA however is an attempt at telling the truth and set a high standard
Its crime, giving a platform for ordinary people to be heard, an unwanted thing on Fox Sky [unless they have been briefed and will say what is told to them]

Dear Belly,

Thanks for that.

Totally agree.

Belly,

All your venom aimed at sky news is pretty much the way conservatives feel about the ABC which on the taxpayer's dollar churns out left whinge propaganda by stacking programs such as Q&A with left whingers, focusing on stories that boost labor / greens and ignoring stories that put labor /greens in a poor light.

Foxy,

I have yet to see a Q&A program with equal or more conservatives than left whingers, and nearly all that I have seen are have only one token conservative or none at all.

As for the 12c/day BS, that is assuming that every person from new born babies to rest home retirees is paying this. Looking at working adults that actually pay net tax then the figure is closer to 50c/day, which is paid by people that generally don't watch the program.

SM,

You can object all you like - however most Australians
approve of our National Broadcaster and believe in
fully supporting it.

Did you by any chance go and hear Nigel Farage, and the
other "personalities" speak at the Conservative Conference in
Sydney? "Nice" array of speakers - you'd have to
agree - Mr Abbott must have been in his element. Mark
Latham next to Rowan Dean?

SM,

I forgot to add the following:

http://tai.org.au/content/abc-still-australia-s-most-trusted-news-source

Foxy,

These are the same left whinge pollsters that assured us of a Labor victory?

The reality is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and a true poll is where consumers of news are prepared to place their hard earned cash. In this regard Newscorp is a hands down winner.

That journalists can both have integrity and be biased is common knowledge, as is that the journalists at the ABC are almost exclusively left leaning.

SM,

We shall have to agree to disagree on this one.

Arguing about it is pointless when we are so far apart
in our views.

Enjoy your day.

Foxy,

I recently seen you quoting a sky news employee Peter Van Onslen to support your views, is he a right wing shill? Is Graham Richardson? is Troy Bramson? was Kristina Kenneally? While sky has a conservative bias, there is no doubt that it makes an effort to represent a wide range of opinions.

You will struggle to find the same effort at balance at the ABC.

The other difference is that I pay to watch Sky, I also pay for you to watch the ABC.

You have every right to your opinion, I will stick to my facts.

SM,

I have no wish to argue with you.

Each to their own.

Enjoy your day.

Once again, Thanks to all the contributors of this
discussion.

I look forward to our next one.