Hey Belly and ALTRAV,

Let me pose a hypothetical question:

'How much do you think is a steaming pile of turd is worth?'

And the answer:

'Whatever someone else is willing to pay for it'.

The concept I'm trying to allude to is that is doesn't matter if you think something ain't worth nothing.
It's what everyone else thinks it's worth that really matters.

"I've always had the belief that if someone is gaining, then someone must be losing."

Well someone somewhere probably is.
For example money could be moved from other less performing markets than cryptocurrency.

In general though, like shares everyone on board gets the win.
If a company makes good decisions they are revalued and their market cap increases.
The win comes from the revaluation, not necessarily other peoples losses.
And at the end of the day, a bull market is a bull market.
Like anything, it's about managing risk v's reward.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2018/01/04/did-this-1988-economist-magazine-predict-a-bitcoin-explosion-in-2018/
http://www.libertynation.com/on-the-cusp-of-the-one-world-currency/

AC, glad you brought this up.
I have this kind of discussion every now and then.
The one about what something is worth.
And I vehemently disagree with your analogy.
There-in rests one of the biggest fallacies in the world of relative values today.
Let ME pose a non-hypothetical question. ie;actual and current practices
Case:1. I buy something direct from the manufacturer, I pay $X for it.
Case:2. I buy same thing from the distributor, I pay $Y, more than $X.
Case:3. I buy same thing from the retailer, I pay $Z, more than $Y.
Each time the price increases because each entity MUST make a profit.
Another 'real', and non-hypothetical case.
Case:1. I buy a car from the auction, I pay $X for it.
Case:2. I buy the same car privately and pay $Y for it.
Case:3. I buy the same car from a dealer and pay $Z for it.
Again the price increases each time and is therefore different for the same article.
So the question presents, which is the right price for the item?
The correct answer is, the cheapest one.
I do not agree, in fact I reject the ridiculous idea or concept of, 'whatever someone is willing to pay for it'.
Rubbish!
Everything has a value, so that statement holds no cred because there are too many factors affecting the sale of an item.
The biggest one is the public's attitude that they have to 'steal' everything, and will only pay retail if forced to.
So you see every day prices are changing, but the item and therefore the value of same does not change.
So it is that things have a value.
What some slack jaw yokel is prepared to pay for it is an intangible and subjective view and attitude allowed to permeate through the ages and society.
So if people would stop saying, 'it's worth what someone will pay for it', and start saying 'it's worth what it is worth, and just because someone wants to steal it, does not suddenly make that item worth any less than it's worth'.

AC how did you work out I think any differently?
We are talking about investing when a storm comes to financial markets
Yes the super rich will, if they wish to, make a killing, out of others loss
But the subject is about safe harbors for current investors

Altrav the day of your thinking is coming with the penetration of internet marketing, however it is not here yet.

1f someone in Gympie or Jandowae wanted to buy a water saving device, first he had to know they existed, then he had to know just what they were. Then of course to buy it from us, he had to know we existed, what we made & where to find us.

The time he saved by walking into his local hardware store, & asking to see what products existed to do his job, was worth the extra cost of the retailers margin.

The retailer deserved his margin for first doing the research, then buying the product, absorbing the cost of holding the stock, & then making the knowledge & product available to everyone interested.

Retailers are still good value, out in the sticks. Firstly you can see the product & evaluate it. Secondly it is much easier to deal with a physical retailer, than with some EBay or internet identity if a problem arises with the product.

Thus things can often be worth more to me, when they are in my locality, rather than in Hong Kong or Melbourne.

This once silly youth bought the Socialism thing hook line and sinker
Look at it wreckage in any place it ever existed
Start with Venezuela
Reward for effort has to be part of any workable economy
Slothfulness was the number one product of socialism
Yes some pure filth exists in an economy
But the one we have,apart from constant trimming and improvement is for the present the best we can get
Dictatorship would change it nothing else

Hassy, I get your drift.
We are on two different paths.
No matter what the circumstances surrounding the intangible aspects of an item or product, it has a value, ie; it's worth.
This can only change slowly over time due to such factors as age, the introduction of a new model rendering the old one obsolete, and so on.
An item does not change 'value' or 'worth' due to the foibles and averace or greed of individuals.
If that were the case, someone selling the same item day after day were to sell each item for, 'what someone was prepared to pay for it', is lunacy and in fact too ridiculous to even contemplate, under any circumstance.
No we have allowed ourselves to be pushed around by those with money so that we are forced to negotiate a price on which to sell the item, on their terms.
So to clarify, everything has a value or worth, which is in no way related to the price it was sold for.
So, something is definitely NOT worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
It is worth what it is worth and if the buyer doesn't like it he can get stuffed and move on to find another fool like himself who is prepared to sell himself and his business to the lowest bidder.