The Forum > General Discussion > Labors task ahead
Labors task ahead
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Posted by Belly, Friday, 24 May 2019 8:12:35 AM
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The ALP appeals to a narrow group of wealthy, young, self-obsessed individuals who believe that saving the planet will preserve their solar lifestyle; who save whales and fruit flies while demanding the right to kill their own babies.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 24 May 2019 9:27:09 AM
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And, Morrison's job will be so much easier now after the departure of people who really should have joined the modern Labor party - Julie Bishop, Christopher Pyne, Craig Laundy, George Brandis, Malcolm Turnbull and Julia Banks.
The Labor party has been hijacked by the very same sorts of people as those thankfully gone from the Liberal party; but there are too many of them to get rid of. There is no point in people of the old Labor school pontificating on a party that no longer exists. The Labor party that was a alternative government is as dead as Bob Hawke. Posted by ttbn, Friday, 24 May 2019 9:39:23 AM
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Dear Belly,
I wrote on another thread that the opinion polls consistently predicted Bill Shorten would win. Political analysts were sure of it. It was supposed to be the Labor Party's "unlosable" election. The polls are now facing increasing scrutiny having shown the Coalition tracking Labor in every poll for the past 3 years. Scott Morrison has done an extra-ordinary thing winning the "unwinnable" election. However it would be a huge mistake for the Coalition to assume that they will win the next one. Both parties now need to not take anything for granted. And learn the lessons from this election. To do otherwise could result in similar outcomes. We have to wait and see what each party does from now on. Surprises may lie ahead. But making predictions of any kind is risky - is a lesson that we should learn from the results of this election. I am sure that Labor will have much to discuss and plan to ensure their future. As will Scott Morrison. To lighten things up - you all may enjoy the following link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAMnSxCmgYY Posted by Foxy, Friday, 24 May 2019 12:02:41 PM
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Let me be clear, it is my unshakable view only Labor can, or even wants to deliver the reforms needed
Too like the Hawke Keating years, our track record is great Too sections of my party, wilfully, demand thinking other than they do is betrayal That is every bit as bad in Liberalism. Both sides have extremes, both sides are hampered by those types, not helped Boat people, tell me the Malaysian solution was not brilliant Abbott said he wished he had looked at it better Do we agree voters, in numbers big enough to count, want no more boats? Then can we not see that solution, within twelve months, would have stopped those boats forever Ok so we took more refugees, not forever, but until no more boats came Our near north, Asia,had a reason to think it was good for them Stopping the boats meant stopping refugees in their countries too The world WILL adopt a solution like this, not far in to the future Labor should explore it again Now if we want to stop economic refugees, we will need to improve things for them, in their country Cutting aid only makes for more refugees CONTROL how aid is spent, no more 60 million dollars for Cambodia to settle two people. Posted by Belly, Friday, 24 May 2019 12:11:42 PM
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Foxy,
Given that the coalition just escaped death, I highly doubt that SM is going to take the electorate for granted. However, given SM's popularity, his promise of tax cuts and a surplus, and the prospect of a now stable and united caucus, if SM plays his card right and delivers what he has promised Albo might well be in opposition for 6 years. Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 24 May 2019 12:47:11 PM
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Albanese is yesterday's man, tomorrow and for the foreseeable future.
Labor will start to have a chance after they get rid of him. Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 24 May 2019 12:59:03 PM
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SM,
The opinion polls consistently predicted Bill Shorten would win last Saturday. Political analysts were sure of it. So predicting Scott Morrison's or Labor's future is risky. We now have the challenges of what lies ahead. And it is exciting. But what the outcomes will be - we'll have to wait and see. Although I have to admit I feel very positive about the future of this country. Posted by Foxy, Friday, 24 May 2019 1:30:55 PM
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Here are a few whacky ideas that the Labor party needs to DROP if it is ever to get back on track:
Implementation of “anti-bullying” programs like the Safe Schools program. Ensuring that all children can transition genders freely at school. Genderless identification documents such as passports and birth certificates. Including LGBT content into all sex education classes to make “sex education inclusive of all sexualities and gender identities. Access to assisted reproductive technology (ART) to all “regardless of relationship status, sex, gender, identity or sexual orientation and similar provisions for inter-country adoption agreements. Removing exemptions to discrimination law that currently allow religious schools to teach traditional sexual ethics. Not to mention their absurd, costly RET and meaningless CO2 reduction, and …. too many other things to mention Posted by ttbn, Friday, 24 May 2019 2:50:51 PM
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Foxy I can understand SM and co not wanting to see Labor will return stronger than ever
Quite frankly it is my view ttbn is so far both right and lost, nothing he says is worth reading However my new Labor, it will need to be that at times, must rethink some policy We gain nothing by pandering to the few while chasing the many away Albo, voted for him in the election that replaced Rudd Never quite forgave Bill for his TWO knife jobs Always will think Rudd should have been given a chance, brilliant man that he is Albo then, now and forever, is the right stuff, he knows how to unite I will be his hardest critic if he turns us left In our favor is mounting calls for real action on climate change,too the coming financial crisis That crisis could arrive in hours days or months but it is coming Posted by Belly, Friday, 24 May 2019 3:29:04 PM
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Dear Belly,
What Labor needs to do is learn from the mistakes made in Queensland. Queenslanders are not all deeply conservative rusted on LNP voters. If they were they would not have elected Labor governments for 25 out of 30 years. Nor would they have elected two female premiers - Anna Bligh and Annastacia Palaszczuk. The problem for Labor was not that Queenslanders don't like voting Labor. It was that Labor misunderstood the variances and nuances of the Queensland electorate. It's the only state where the majority of the population lives outside the capital city. Regionalism matters in Queensland the way it does not elsewhere. As regions reliant on export industries they have been highly susceptable to cycles of boom and bust. Many are still suffering high unemployment and depressed housing prices following a slow down in mining and the end of the construction boom in and around Gladstone. Frequent national disasters have compounded their difficulties. As a result Queensland governments have had to be highly responsive to the interests and fears of the diverse Queensland communities. The National focus of federal politics however - was less given to understanding the differences between these regions (Cairns, Clermont, Caboolture, Charleville). This hurt both Labor and the Coalition as shown by the rise of first preferences to minor parties like - One Nation and the United Australia Party. Labor suffered more due to its policy rich campaign platform focused mainly on metropolitan first home buyers and environmentalists. This did not signal to Australians particularly in Queensland that their concerns were being heard. Posted by Foxy, Friday, 24 May 2019 4:02:37 PM
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Rafe Champion gives pause for thought about any exhilaration after the election results, claiming that the difference between the parties is "razor thin", and the result was really down to "incredible good fortune and a major bungle by Labor".
Pissing on Morrison's parade, perhaps, but he points out the fact that progressive left politics still reigns in the education system where it will do the "most long-term damage". (Catallaxy Files, 24/5/19). Posted by ttbn, Friday, 24 May 2019 7:23:11 PM
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Foxy and other interested let me be clear, I do not think voters rejected Labor because of the following
Climate change tax reform or most of our social policies They did reject these things, too many not explained tax reforms, a deep dislike some, from all sides, held for Shorten And our foolish failing to commit on that coal mine You will see the usual suspects constantly pin their personal biases on the whiteboard and tell us that is why voters rejected Labor Not true but a comfort blanket for them Scomo, [no joy here for me] has outperformed us He played on the anti Shorten stuff brilliantly Right now we do not know how well he will govern but we know he now has the power to silence his front and back bench Labor, on Monday, by electing ALBO says we are not dead, we have awoken, and are ready to grow Posted by Belly, Saturday, 25 May 2019 8:06:37 AM
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Belly,
"Labor, on Monday, by electing ALBO says we are not dead,..." We just won't lie down !! Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 25 May 2019 8:35:09 AM
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Belly,
So Shorten, a Right-winger (unless the position of 'opportunist' is still available) pursued a sort of Let-wing agenda. Albanese, a Aleft-winger and friend of Jeremy Corbyn, can choose to pursue either a more centrist agenda, or push an even more Left-wing agenda. We could be in for six years of ScoMo. Maybe nine years, given that Labor doesn't have a learning gene. You and I may never see another federal Labor government, Belly. Joe Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 25 May 2019 10:45:34 AM
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That all depends on what both ScoMo and Albo
do. Too early to predict anything yet. But if both men continue with much of the same tactics - we're in for more of the same mess. Which would be so disappointing. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 25 May 2019 11:40:28 AM
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Come on Belly, do you really believe Albo is not yesterday's man with last century's politics. He is a throwback to the far left pinko of the distant past.
Yes he'll probably please the inner city mob, but they will only give him second preferences, the academics & the ABC listeners, but he will take you even further away from the new well off blue collar workers who deserted you this time, & those aspiring to join this new middle class. The current EU election in the UK & Europe will be interesting. I wonder if their polls are any better than ours? If the new Brexit party win in the UK as polls suggest, & similar movements do well in the rest of Europe, Labor would be well advised to sniff the air, & perhaps chose a leader more suited to the times. I think the average worker is getting a bit sick of working with one bludger & a public servant on his back, & is looking for some relief. The welfare state has gone too far, & workers want some relief, not more redistribution as offered by Shorten & Albo. If that means that the carping pensioner [& other welfare recipients] who always want more, has to take a cut along with many others, well so be it. The bitching of many makes me rather ashamed to be a pensioner myself. You & I might have to tighten our belts a bit old mate, to give our kids a better go. Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 25 May 2019 12:26:36 PM
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While interested in every reply Loudmouth yours asks the most important questions
Corbyn I dislike the bloke intensely, he may destroy or split the British Labour party [ see spell it differently over there] Far too leftist, even in a country that both the party and SOME of it supporters are far left of us Our right [my home] has become the problem often not the solution Formed in the 1950,s to commbate a strong but quite mad, left, it won us power It was the then head of NSW right and the AWU [Charlie Oliver] [Shortens union] that gave backing to Whitlams demanded changes We became a party that can be elected You will know today, largely, we are on once Liberal grounds/policies BUT the right stopped action on Obied, it took the parties engine NSW Labor and trashed it IT powered by a Senator,now the family pup of Packer, held Shortens hand when he knifed Rudd BUT it too saw how wrong it was becoming, IT elected a left wing leader in NSW he, no one else [Luke Folly] rebuilt the party He did it with far from left policy and actions ALBO has drifted from his youthful left, still is left but a friendly left His backing by the right [me] is because my party knows in the end, a week ago, the much needed opportunity to finally bury the pain, even hate,distrust, those knifeings bought about, even within the party We are not a raging mad left of reality mob, unfortunately some here, who too saw their wants and wishes die last week may have a case to answer for the very right results Posted by Belly, Saturday, 25 May 2019 1:37:10 PM
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ALBO, even in his darkest hours
[We, well not me, but the right stole the leadership from him, he was very clearly elected to lead us post Rudd] The party machine, only the right can be called that, overruled its membership [thanks for nothing you idiots] Albo held,as he always has politics in the pub meetings all over the place I could talk of other things but not from Bob Hawke have we had a leader you could just have a beer with and talk football He is confronted by a man not unlike himself, easy to get along with and like Both however are confronted most by? their own parties] Give the man air, give him three months then tell me he is too left too old or just maybe as I think he is the Goldilocks, just right [My views and support for Bill Shorten remain true, but I can see looking back, my thinking he could revive the brilliant man I knew was and still are, wrong, he however powered our rebuild, we must never again elect based on factions Posted by Belly, Saturday, 25 May 2019 1:48:41 PM
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Dear Belly,
You would be more familiar with the people and workings of the Labor Party than anybody else here on the forum. Most of us know very little about Anthony Albanese - except that he did win the popular vote when he ran opposite Bill Shorten for the party's leadership. The factions chose Shorten. I've read Albo's background. His qualifications and experience should stand him in good stead to lead. His credentials speak for themselves. The man has the education, and from what I've read on his job portfolio - also the job experience required for what lies ahead. Whether this will amount to his being successful, we can only hope that he will possess the characteristics required to make for a successful career. Such as initiative, leadership, drive, negotiating ability, willingness to take risks, and persuasiveness. You know the man better than the rest of us. However, I fully trust your judgement. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 25 May 2019 2:28:44 PM
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I thank you Foxy, let me be honest, I often doubted Bill, and hid that fact here
The filthy rag I name solidarity demands that, too often I will question Albo during the next three years But it will not be often,I trust him He has no easy job, his branches need attention,every faction wants its own way But voters want different things, he must remind them constantly Labor, unlike Palmer paid no booth workers,we do that well I am confident Albo will win many over, even on Monday as he takes over he is a blokey bloke Posted by Belly, Saturday, 25 May 2019 4:24:32 PM
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Trotsky's try to wag the dog and the Labor party and the bureaucracy is too full of them for "Albo" to control. It will take a catastrophe to remove them- hopefully the electorate is smart enough to realize it- and act on it.
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 26 May 2019 12:59:45 AM
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Some times CM a few words like that question only you, are you at all informed about today's politics?
This will hurt, but must be said, in the next three years not only Australia's Labor Party, but center and left parties around the world MUST address the rise of extreme right And [both sides have done it often] thieve some of their policy I think the Malaysian solution was brilliant Too that it or some thing like it, will be adopted all over the world Further world overpopulation is here now So if we intend [and voters demand we do] to keep our borders nearly closed, we must first increase foreign aid And find other ways to return financial refugees IT HURTS people I respect like Paul and Foxy will not like it But unless the coming financial crisis leads to recession Socialism will not sell So Labor, [as it has before] must abandon some of its once very reason to exist policies Follow the voters not march away from them To rap up feeding the few while ignoring the many is not good politics Posted by Belly, Sunday, 26 May 2019 6:33:46 AM
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Bellys Rose smelling Labor.
Labor Party are a bunch of criminals unfit to govern: Followed closely by the LNP. Plibersek didn't run for leader due to a little problem with her husbands credibility. He did a three year stint in the slammer for drug smuggling. So what's her "real story" one would wonder, (by implication)? Graham Richardson was also a drug smuggler, but that fact didn't quite make it to the surface! It didn't stop his helecopter ride to the top positions in the public service though. More evidence of systemic corruption, Australian style. Obviously the bunch of criminals support each other behind the scenes. Dan Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 26 May 2019 6:44:37 AM
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Re-edited post from above!
Bellys Rose smelling Labor. Labor Party are a bunch of criminals unfit to govern: Followed closely by the LNP. Plibersek didn't run for leader due to a little problem with her husbands credibility. He did a three year stint in the slammer for drug smuggling. So what's her "real story" one would wonder, (by implication)? It didn't stop his helecopter ride to the top positions in the public service though. More evidence of systemic corruption, Australian style. Graham Richardson was also a drug smuggler, but that fact didn't quite make it to the surface! Obviously the bunch of criminals support each other behind the scenes. Dan Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 26 May 2019 6:48:17 AM
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Hi Dan,
Don't be shy: why don't you tell us what you really think :) The truth may be a defence in defamation cases, but please be careful: just say 'person A' and 'person B' unless you've just won X -Lotto. Joe Posted by Loudmouth, Sunday, 26 May 2019 9:11:54 AM
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Posted by Belly, Sunday, 26 May 2019 6:33:46 AM
Comment1- Some times CM a few words like that question only you, are you at all informed about today's politics? This will hurt, but must be said, in the next three years not only Australia's Labor Party, but center and left parties around the world MUST address the rise of extreme right. And [both sides have done it often] thieve some of their policy Answer1- As Clarke's Law says- "a sufficiently advanced technology will be seen as magic!". If you are a white male of British heritage you don't need to be informed- if you have a brain- you live todays politics. The "extreme left" Communists have hijacked democracy, the departments, the HR departments of companies, the educational institutions with the help of the "do gooders" that believe in so called "Social Justice". Now the community is under siege by the extreme left. The next step is for the extreme left to infiltrate the police, the army, and the courts- this is already underway. Then western civilization is dead. I suppose once a people is disarmed and disenfranchised- tyranny is the inevitable result. Hitler would be impressed at how effectively the extreme left have executed their policies- but they have been around for longer than Hitler so they have had more time to refine their strategies. Sometimes as Belly has I believe correctly implied- it's necessary to hurt peoples feelings (and sometimes even their bodies or property) in order to get to the truth or the goal- this is reflected in the statement "Free Speech not Political Correctness". Comment2- I think the Malaysian solution was brilliant Too that it or some thing like it, will be adopted all over the world Further world overpopulation is here now Answer2- A solution is only good if it solves the problem. In many cases one tries to find a solution before understanding the problem. I guess Julia Gillard solved the problem that she understood- she didn't address the cause of the problem- population mismanagement Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 26 May 2019 9:32:09 AM
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When you see the price of water and other utilities increasing- the price of land increasing- this is influenced by increasing population- demand pressure. There is often conflict between micro and macro economics- the people in "macro" jobs are less impacted by "micro" influences. I suspect the extreme left favours Ricardo's Comparitive Advantage of Nations - not because they support efficiency but because they support globalism/ Trotskyist Communism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ricardo#Comparative_advantage Comment3- So if we intend [and voters demand we do] to keep our borders nearly closed, we must first increase foreign aid Answer3- No- we must highlight the point that the UN principles that cover refugees and human are fallacious and unsustainable and refuse to comply with them for our survival. Unless the underlying issue of security (in Maslow's pyramid) is addressed then there will be a constant flow of refugees- but sovereign rights restrict international action. It's a complex issue but the extreme left try to blame the western patriarchy for the issues so they can obtain power- politics is mostly about power- who's got it- and who wants it. The question is- is power becoming more concentrated? I believe the answer is yes- this implies that we are going in the wrong direction- like pin the tail on the donkey- we are blind and confused without principles to give us bearings on the ocean. Comment4- And find other ways to return financial refugees. Answer4- Sometimes in management it's important to act rather than to find the best solution. Analysis Paralysis. Comment5- IT HURTS people I respect like Paul and Foxy will not like it. Answer5- I've addressed this above. Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 26 May 2019 9:33:38 AM
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Comment6-
But unless the coming financial crisis leads to recession Socialism will not sell So Labor, [as it has before] must abandon some of its once very reason to exist policies Follow the voters not march away from them To rap up feeding the few while ignoring the many is not good politics Answer6- The Labor movement have forgotten the Labour perhaps in the goal of world labour solidarity (as Belly has alluded to). World solidarity is a principle in common with Trotskyist Communism. It seems to the based on the idea that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" rather than "Bellum omnium contra omnes". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellum_omnium_contra_omnes I believe that it's more important to "focus on stability and to nurture our traditional alliances to create safety in Australia" rather than rely on "pure economic means to create stability and safety". I believe that the economic approach is doomed to failure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ricardo#Comparative_advantage Hopefully "the many" can learn to see it too as it's depressing to see the few "Extreme Left Trotskyist Communists" manipulating the many for their own advantage. There are 1. Those that want the power 2. Those that are convinced by the propaganda of those that want the power 3. Those that aren't convinced by those that want the power but can't fight it 4. Those that don't care enough to believe in any principles. We need to help those in group 2 to question more- give those in group 3 weapons of argument- give principles to those in group 4. The thing we should fear is fear itself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_inauguration_of_Franklin_D._Roosevelt Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 26 May 2019 9:34:34 AM
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Wars and Laws are not "fair"- What is fair?- subjective existentialism and anthropological relativism- we must forge our world using fire- there will be blood and pain and horror- caused by all sides- it will haunt us. War is won by deception- Sun Tzu. Our culture and the legacy of our ancestors must survive- even if it is by blood. Our choice is blood or blood
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 26 May 2019 9:49:55 AM
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Just as election results can be surprising, so too can sections of the Uniting Church it seems. It will be a surprise to leftist “Christians’ - who misinterpret the Bible to suit modern fads - that there still exists in the most left of lefty Churches, a conservative cohort still not happy with the decision to allow the celebration of same sex marriage within the Uniting Church.
Multiple conservative movements are gaining force, with some of them threatening to take over church property and finances, setting up as options to the mother church. A rift on SSM has already seen members leaving the church to escape the bullying and ostracising of congregants who take the scriptures seriously. Some churches have remove the Uniting Church name from their signs, with one congregation in SA considering returning to its Presbyterian roots. As the confident Leftists found from the rejection of Labor last weekend, they are not going to get their own way all the time - in politics or in the wider community. Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 26 May 2019 1:00:08 PM
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http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trumpism-is-taking-over-the-world-and-the-left-is-to-blame-20190525-p51r44.html
Some will not like seeing this, from me But you better think on it, it is true Bob Brown's green left safari was a disaster, for Labor The stalling of Adani, knowing full well we intended to pass it, another stupid act Begging the government to bring the offshore detainees here? against the wishes of over half this country's voters Now IF we keep aid out of the hands of despots? See it makes it way, every cent, to those who need it? Voters will not call for it to be stopped Waiting for Labor to turn the clock back, become purely socialist? Sees nine votes lost for every one gained Do the maths, follow the voters not lost dreams Posted by Belly, Sunday, 26 May 2019 3:29:44 PM
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Diver Dan just re read every post, usually give yours a miss
Mate, ruok? in the tin shed that is? Would be totally convinced I was not if that post was mine, PS still one nation supporter? not near as bright as you think you are bloke Posted by Belly, Sunday, 26 May 2019 3:33:31 PM
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NSW Labor, once the engine of Labor, has its own troubles it faces a election [this time contested] of it leader and the result will take about a month
Labor,federally and in my state, looked likely to win, but tread on its own feet That only highlights the fact change must come Scomo, if you agree Labor lost based on it overload of policies, too has to show something changed or is about to, in his government Posted by Belly, Monday, 27 May 2019 7:39:07 AM
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Belly,
You did give your preference to the Greens. Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 27 May 2019 1:05:20 PM
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is mise did you give yours to the Liberals?
Can you show me another way either of us should have voted and know it was effective? It remains my view the greens are far too far away from voters That they have policies , some good, but most that can never ever see them elected Is Mise it is my view, as a center unity [Labor right] voter we the ALP, must move back a few steps, we too got in front of the voters not behind following them And firmly, believe the next three years will see a Labor government Senate quite friendly to Scomo, but it will force a double Dissolution, just what Scomo may want Posted by Belly, Monday, 27 May 2019 4:12:32 PM
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This article and a vast majority of comments on it;
- Are total bs - I mean really I could fart and it would be better than some of the clueless opinions here. This was all a plot to take out Wikileaks. Only one thing new happened since the original alleged hacking occurred in 2010 to which Eric Holder under Obama decided not to prosecute, and that is - the Russian Collusion investigation. Why don't you find out about the backstory about whistleblowers and the CIA's program to build a backdoor into the secure dropbox program for anonymous MSM newspaper whistleblowers; - Remember a big story about whistleblower protections? - So that they could get have all whistleblower info routed through them first. And Wikileaks, probably through compromised staff members or agents who infiltrated Wikileaks started using the same secure dropbox. Then look up the backstory about Manning. Look at his part, where and who he trained with. Then ask yourself how an 'analyst' was able to access all that info he did. Look up the original facts surrounding the hacking. Manning was trying to trick Assange into helping him break a password and hack into SIPRnet. All the info he gave out was to earn Assange's trust, and to trick him into helping him hack into SIPRnet, but Assange didn't take the bait. Otherwise Obama administration would've prosecuted him. This is about what Assange knows about Russian Collusion and Seth Rich. And you people are idiots, you can't spot a stich up when its right in front of you. And what of all the war-crimes Assange exposed? Not one person prosecuted. They hijacked the narrative. Assange isn't the criminal, they are. Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 27 May 2019 5:10:10 PM
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I appear to have stuffed this one right up.
Sorry Belly - Wrong thread... - But since I'm here - "we too got in front of the voters not behind following them" The coin finally drops, he finally gets it... Good work Belly. I remember a month or so back when you were talking all this stuff about the 'centre'; You were talking about 'bringing the centre to you'. (And I was thinking 'That's madness') It doesn't work that way and I'm glad you're finally starting to see it. No matter where the pace of progress is, you can't force change. You can't expect the voters to come to you. You've got to go to them. You have to produce a message and policies that resonate with them, if you want their votes. Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 27 May 2019 9:12:20 PM
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AC mate, knew you got the wrong thread no worries this thread is not mine it is ours
Now you overlook a fact I was in campaign mode and did not then understand, the voters are not Now Ise Mise, bloke TRUTH in the end the only thing that matters My seat is the private property of the National party, ex farmers retire here and we have not held the seat for near two decades Greens run, but do not have enough members to man the booths A handful of small parties, some independents in it only for the money So yes Nats last, Labor on top greens? second Nats, ALWAYS going to win on primary votes, So preference not used, but just in case? never going to be your mob PS Labor went backwards by about two point five percent here Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 6:33:54 AM
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From Paul Kelly:
"Any prospect the Labor Party will seriously review the source of its election defeat is remote. The reason is simple — there is no will or incentive for a ruthlessly honest review and, given Scott Morrison’s narrow win, Labor assumes, no doubt correctly, it will be competitive at the next election. Labor is the party with a history of competitive losses. Being competitive is the substitute for winning. Each defeat holds out the enticing hope of victory next time — and the next time and the next time. It keeps extolling the Whitlam and Hawke legacies in hollow gestures designed to conceal that it is the anti-Hawke party in terms of governance and the anti-Whitlam party in terms of internal reform. Meanwhile, Labor has lost seven of the last nine federal elections — and of the two it won, one was a doomed minority government. Labor has passed a new threshold — the party is beyond reform. And nobody gets angry. Nobody stands up and says “enough is enough”. The party is trapped — tied to a rank-and-file hopelessly to the Left of the Australian public, hostage to a trade union movement locked into counter-productive political activism and entangled in a fatal embrace with the Greens, who steal its votes whenever Labor tries to be responsibly centrist. So the party and its legion of progressive media supporters get ready to champion the next ALP leader and the next ALP era with the same determination to be blind to the arc of history. Too much is at stake for real change — too many interests, too many ideological faiths, too much risk to Labor’s competitive position in 2022. Labor is suffocated by its constant self-congratulation. Aware it has good prospects of winning next time, Labor will opt for a fresh leader, new cosmetics and dressed-up adjustments at the margins. It is a familiar story." Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 2:53:17 PM
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Shadow Minister can you find someone worth hearing to quote
See SMH Morrison may be a truly great PM, true in fact he will not be easy to remove Thankfully he has not got it right with climate change, it is his weakness Right now facebook is full of posts about saving us from Adani, our branches are often left of the party. Save the hairy bottomed sea gull stuff ALBO has as his first task to find a way to fix that Your mob too have such air wasters,sitting watching Sky while suping on Quecumber sangas, calling for beheading of any one left of one nation Like the effort you put in but two out of ten mate,quoting such is just lazy real people have said things you could use Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 3:50:46 PM
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-29/anthony-albanese-must-win-labor-base-government-from-coalition/11157474
Well they have the task and problems right at least, think it is worth reading From inside the tent I definitely think, our problem IS wanting to be nice and cute to what was once our base A truth More ex Labor voters than current Liberals, want the boats stopped Too do not want offshore detainees brought here Do not believe me? then you are part of the problem not the solution Many, far too many, want policy that sheds votes, no matter what it brings, Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 6:18:56 AM
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Belly,
Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it, and when all you can do is shoot the messenger you come across as an ignorant blowhard. The labor party swung to the left in this last election and is trying to revert to the politics and policies of the 1970s and paid for it with a humiliating loss in an election that they should have won in a canter. Instead of serious introspection and analysis all we are seeing from Labor is excuses and platitudes. Paul Kelly has held senior positions in both Fairfax and Newscorp and provides highly respected commentary that criticises both sides of politics, and I challenge you to find fault with anything he says. Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 7:50:18 AM
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Shadow Minister you have the art of the insult down to pat
You will not see my opinion of you, based only on your out of control ego, here, why bother? Labor did, yes did, much of what you say We lost the election Scomo, too an expert in the art of insult lies and fear, flogged us We have work to do And do it we will Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 12:10:33 PM
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"And do it we will"
That'll be a change. Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 12:54:00 PM
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is mise are you ever happy?
Do you smile from time to time I think your self belief is not shared by your friends Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 4:34:23 PM
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Dear Belly,
I'm trying to think of the appropriate word to describe him. It's something like - "The ten pound ..." No, it's "The whinging ..." No, something more appropriate " S### stirrer?" Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 6:08:57 PM
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Dear Belly,
Unless the word is precise, it won't be understood. He'll try to shew us what the correct term should be. He's an expert on language you see. English, of course. Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 6:12:50 PM
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"We have work to do
And do it we will" Albo stated that " All of our policies need to be looked at …. but not our values". It stands to reason that if all of a party's policies require revision, then its value system is in need of major overhaul. Labor's values embrace class warfare, big government, porous borders, identity politics and social engineering. As it shares these values with the Greens, it may be tempting to change its name to the 'New Greens', or get into bed with the Greens. Posted by Raycom, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 10:49:41 PM
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Raycom in all truth you need to think just a bit
I challenge YOU goggle Sir Robert Menzies his policies Yes Labor was always at war with him, but know it was a far different world and a far different Labor then We now sit closer to his policy that the Liberal party YES we have work to do, just as the Liberal party has, its right of reality faction still exists It shedding some who are now very much right of reality My thoughts are true, Labor has work to do, not a knock down and rebuild but a renovation for sure This morning another boat is reported as arriving It came, you can bet the rent on it, because at the time it started out, Labor looked to be winning the election Continued Posted by Belly, Thursday, 30 May 2019 6:27:52 AM
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Put one thousand Australians in a paddock, ask them what they want to do about boat people
You will hear over 500 , many more, will say stop them from coming Voters, not governments, demand we be cruel but stop the boats They too, say do not bring offshore detainees here Cruel, but true Labor, in my view, must broadcast the very same message Morrison did, to say once and for all , you will not enter this country if you try to come ever WHY? well trying to be kind, to please the far less than 50 percent who want to open the door is? electoral death for my party We, too MUST stop being used by our own refugees,the Australian Greens, we travel different roads and should never ever even think of swapping preferences again, they represent at best ten percent of the population but are despised by far more than that Posted by Belly, Thursday, 30 May 2019 6:37:44 AM
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Belly,
"We, too MUST stop being used by our own refugees,the Australian Greens, we travel different roads and should never ever even think of swapping preferences again, they represent at best ten percent of the population but are despised by far more than that" Then why did you give them your preferences in the just past election? Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 30 May 2019 10:52:18 AM
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Come on Belly. What utter garbage about Menzies & his policies.
I remember a number of widow pensioners in our street. I used to run errands for them to the convenience store, half a mile down the rough dirt road in Menzies day. No way they could afford a car, & the rough road was dangerous for them. Many of them used to go to the market garden across the road from us, looking for reject cabbages, cauliflowers, carrots & the like to buy cheap, before the farmer fed them to his horses. My pony lived in his paddock in exchange for me getting a couple of his horses ready for him each morning before school. He was a good farmer, but a lousy horseman. Saturdays he would give me a bag of vegetables to take to the various widows, many of whom lived on boiled cabbage & not much else. Yes Menzies was not too bad a PM, but it was not all kindness & light when it came to supporting the old. Todays pensioners would be horrified if they had to try to survive on a 1950s pension. I reckon Menzies would also be horrified at the cost of health care, & welfare today. It was only Queensland that had free hospitals in his day, & for a long time after. I think you are wearing those rose coloured glasses again mate. Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 30 May 2019 11:11:58 AM
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ise mise writing slowly, try to keep up, tell you what get one of the grandkids in to tell you what it is about
Voted to exclude the sitting member, knew Labor would not win Would have used any party to not vote conservative Got the young bloke? how is he going? Now who runs third in about eight horse race, matters Labor was always going to run second, a poor second this time, greens on ten percent third Kid still there, give the old fellas rocker a push mate is miserable old mate if you too did not take in to consideration how and why you voted for one of the very right parties you have my sympathy Young fella! not too fast the old bloke is getting on a bit Posted by Belly, Thursday, 30 May 2019 12:07:06 PM
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By now some of us [me at least] will have seen Shortens good by and Albos hello
Impressed me, thought Bill may leave, his test is not to be another Tony Abbott, and think he will do well Albo copped heaps from no other but my often quoted SMH Anyone know if Rupert bought that paper? Still liked what I saw and may start looking for another news paper, it looks like it has got some of Skys after dark presenters on board Posted by Belly, Thursday, 30 May 2019 4:55:43 PM
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'Albo copped heaps from no other but my often quoted SMH
Anyone know if Rupert bought that paper?' hope so, might have some chance of reporting the truth unlike the Marxist mob. Posted by runner, Thursday, 30 May 2019 4:57:46 PM
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runner almost all the world understands Rupert and truth are words that are never seen together
It interests me, watching such as you put the ball and chain on your own feet, by defending Rupert and that man Trump Both need folk like you [who they have zero regard for] to get the power they use to undermine you and me Posted by Belly, Friday, 31 May 2019 7:20:53 AM
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Belly,
It is bollocks such as "almost all the world understands Rupert and truth are words that are never seen together" which condemns labour to the opposition benches by confusing what they want to hear with the truth. Newscorp and Sky are the only sources of conservative news, while on left there is Fairfax, the guardian, The ABC, and a host of disingenuous blogs. Rupert's papers are the most widely read because the news articles are factually correct, and the opinion pieces resonate with the man in the street. Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 31 May 2019 2:06:20 PM
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Sorry but you are deluded old mate
For almost all of human history the rich and powerful have tried to rule us all Rupert is master in that roll His infamous English acts with News of the World are well known I tend to doubt your defense of him would stand if, as he has done in the past, with Whitlam and British Labour he swung behind Albo He may well do so in three years, or his sons if he is dead' Sky/Fox/ News Corp, are at best comic book media Posted by Belly, Friday, 31 May 2019 3:28:18 PM
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Dear Belly,
Rupert Murdoch's influence in Australia is vast. News Corp. has tentacles everywhere, from metropolitan newspapers, magazines and news distribution channels to regional and rural newspapers to community and suburban newspapers as well as television. Newspapers such as The Australian, The Daily Telegraph, Herald Sun, The Courier Mail, The Advertiser, The Mercury, Northern Territory News, are just some we can list, as well as their Sunday versions. Foxtel, Sky News, and so on. As for the claim of being factual? Fact Checks done on many of their articles do not support that claim. Posted by Foxy, Friday, 31 May 2019 3:51:31 PM
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At this stage I support Murdoch more than the ABC. At least Murdoch isn't taking public money. If the ABC was merely an information source it might be acceptable to fund it- but even then it can choose the information. Defund the ABC- let it survive on its own merits. I don't think it will survive long...
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 31 May 2019 5:07:19 PM
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Dear CM,
You mistakenly write; "At this stage I support Murdoch more than the ABC. At least Murdoch isn't taking public money." The public of course pays albeit indirectly. Advertisers pay for ads which goes on the cost of goods that they sell us. But the Murdoch press has allowed a single individual to buy an election result to benefit his coal mining interests. Are you really saying you support this commodification of our democracy? Shame on you if that is the case. Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 31 May 2019 5:19:39 PM
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Belly,
""We, too MUST stop being used by our own refugees,the Australian Greens," I see, you were used. Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 31 May 2019 5:35:49 PM
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SteelRedux said-
The public of course pays albeit indirectly. Advertisers pay for ads which goes on the cost of goods that they sell us. Answer- Well Murdoch TV station MyMoney was apparently denied advertisers through lobbying by the International Red Trotsky Communist Group- The Sleeping Giants. Conservative voters buy consumer goods too. I guess there is a section of the community that is trying to promote Red Trotskyist Communist/ New Left Principles/ Identity Politics that appears to include people such as the gay CEO of Apple- Tim Cook. Well good on The Sleeping Giants for their success- I don't think it is right or healthy but they used the tools at their disposal to meet the goal- the public need to choose whether in the case of Apple "gay power" is to their advantage- if it is they should support Apple and the goals of Tim Cook if not then they shouldn't. It could go like this "Support Gay Power Buy Apple". It is harder to inform the public when organizations such as The Sleeping Giants and the ABC attempt to present the alternative view as racist- but there you go. As Actor Jeffrey Wright on Wednesday appeared to warn that when the political left in America “get the power” back from Republicans, “everybody else” should “f*ing duck.” Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 1 June 2019 6:42:28 AM
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I have noted even in the better news papers, a kick the ALP while they are down, type of willingness to print untruths
Well that too is a challenge for Labor, too the insistence, from some from within the ALP, to try to continue the anti Coal/Adani stuff No easy task Albo, but confronting such is a thing you must do Too as NSW enters a month long campaign to pick its new leader,factionalism, is being seen We have a choice between Jodi MacKay and a bloke from the right we do not know much about If we do not meet the voters in the place they inhabit we will see our party failing in every election My view is we will change direction and Albo is the one to do it Posted by Belly, Saturday, 1 June 2019 7:45:49 AM
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Unwilling to accept the truth, Labor and its apologists have put the result down to the alleged stupidity of Coalition voters. In so doing they demonstrated not only their contempt for fellow Australians, they also showed where those suffering from the greater delusions reside — fortunately, at least for the near future, not on the government benches.
Of the 42 elections since Federation, Labor has won only 14. And yet they still haven't got the message. In hard times, Australians have sometimes switched to Labor, only to regret it a short time after. Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 1 June 2019 9:30:03 AM
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While the Labor tragics thrash about, looking for excuses as to why they failed miserably despite being so much better than the Coalition in their eyes, and 'deserving' to be elected by 'dumb' voters who don't know what's good for them, here's a comment from probably the last person in Australia who would support right of centre politics: Tim Southphommasane, ex-AHRC race relations commissioner and general whinger about 'racist' Australians.
"Morrison may have called his victory a miracle, but it was a victory achieved through discipline - through grit". No matter what you think of Morrison as a person, he won the election for the Coalition. He proved that he is a leader, something we haven't had for a long time. Conversely, Labor had Shorten, a self-server, seen by voters as sleazy and untrustworthy. Now they have poor old Albo. Like it or not, we seem to be in for presidential- style elections from now on. In the one just gone, the Ministers (dills, most of them) were thankfully kept out by the boss. The Coalition now has a proven leader; Labor does not Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 1 June 2019 10:08:28 AM
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Goodness me - I must live in a totally
different world to some of the posters here. "The Sleeping Giants" - a communist group? Really? I've never heard of them - until now. I did some research. It seems that they've got a twitter account and a Facebook account and they are a media outlet that specialises in advising companies not to advertise on the sites of extremist (for want of a better word) - right wing groups - like "Breitbart News." Apparently "The Sleeping Giants" came into being after the election of Donald Trump. They are about disspelling "fake news." What they have to do with us in this country - I'm not sure. Also references to "Red Trotskyist Communists" (sic) - is a bit of a concern. It Smacks of the mentality of the 1950s and the fear campaigns that existed then- and were used for political advantage. Also references to "Labor trash" is equally concerning. One keeps on hoping that "truisms" like these will no longer be passively accepted. "truisms" that long ago ceased to be true. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 1 June 2019 11:00:10 AM
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Foxy, yes it is nasty, for me to claim a poster is at best, uninformed
More than likely, another problem exists here, and to highlight that posters very very strong words AGAINST THIS GOVERNMENT? My mistake, see I tried to not respond, thought, quite wrongly it seems, we here at least paid respect to the truth To to what should be called trolling, clearly I got that wrong My posts MUST appear strange, after my pro Labor posts, my protection of Bill But every one thought we would win, I [deeply troubled but not telling] waited for Bill to return to the man I knew Communists? my enemy for life is communism, equally American Trump style Capitalism Blind uncaring Capitalism It is my honest view such as ttbn get away with insults we may not use And that claims Labor is in any way communist are wrong/deliberately so and yes insane Posted by Belly, Saturday, 1 June 2019 11:53:39 AM
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Dear Belly,
We need to actively challenge the damaging childish myths that some posters, (and people like Pauline Hanson, her supporters, and their ilk), try to use to their political advantage. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 1 June 2019 12:10:16 PM
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We do indeed Foxy, my determination to see Labor reform, become the government is based on a need for a better caring Government
The very right are in fact like users of yo yo,s and hula hoops,looking for the next big thing You see them everyday,water bottle in hand phone in the other walking around begging to be seen Trump and the right of reality are the latest new thing Hatred of whole faiths or nationalities come from there too Trump, any observer, any who cares to read what other than Rupert's rags has to say,will surely question is he insane Foxy the fight continues but! never ever thought in my lifetime a group would exist that thinks Hitler was other than a dreadful person Posted by Belly, Saturday, 1 June 2019 4:05:18 PM
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Dear Belly,
We can't change people but we can change how we interact with them. I think we do live in the best of times and I have no doubt that there will be many positive changes for us all. This last election has been a wake-up call. Positive times lie ahead. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 1 June 2019 4:24:14 PM
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cont'd ...
I may be dreadfully wrong but I don't believe that Trump will win the next election. Then of course I didn't think he'd win either. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 1 June 2019 4:26:01 PM
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This is interesting in reference to Foxy's comment on the 1950's-
Also references to "Red Trotskyist Communists" (sic) - is a bit of a concern. It Smacks of the mentality of the 1950s and the fear campaigns that existed then- and were used for political advantage. Link- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrokhin_Archive From the Mitrokhin Archives it appears that the Anti-Red campaigns of the 50's perhaps weren't just about fear- perhaps it's also true in the current era- a Communist by another name is a Communist- as is a rose- but I leave it to the reader to exercise their judgement- that is the hope of the world that people will see the truth. Given Foxy's previous comments (by her husband on her behalf from memory) about her experiences with the Communists in Lithuania you would think that she would have more respect for 50's mentality. The truth is often illusive- there are paradoxes, subtleties, red herrings, dead ends, multiple truths- like Michelangelo's ceiling it can be agony and ecstasy. Seek and you will find... "Liz Coleman" says that there is no good or evil but different types of good- it's an interesting point- even though I might not completely agree. Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 1 June 2019 9:50:47 PM
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The Labor party has lost its way- it is no longer about the workers. I can understand that many semi-retirees on this forum may not be aware of the erosion of the workplace- especially for young people- under the Labor party's watch. Some perhaps are doing better- such as those in the building industry- at least for the time being- under the current arrangements. The loss of union power within the Labor party since Simon Crean and the seeming infiltration of the unions by Socialists is instructive. It seems that with the loss of union membership and financial support the union core has imploded like a black hole leaving a shell and hiding a core of political Marxist Trotskyist Socialists- similar to The Greens and their Watermelon's.
The Labor Party and the unions themselves still claim a grassroots base with Australian Workers but an analysis of their actions or lack of action leads me to different conclusions. Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 1 June 2019 10:18:33 PM
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This is great news for the conservatives,
I look forward to another decade of conservative government. As long as Left whingers continue to blame Rupert, big business, and anyone other than themselves, labor and the greens will continue playing to their ever shrinking base. Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 2 June 2019 5:02:55 AM
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Shadow Minister said-
This is great news for the conservatives, I look forward to another decade of conservative government. As long as Left whingers continue to blame Rupert, big business, and anyone other than themselves, labor and the greens will continue playing to their ever shrinking base. Answer- Yes it is. Hopefully Traditional Conservative groups can remind Australia and the western world of some of the values of the 50's of Foxy's youth that she seems to deride so much. This involves an attempt to move and perhaps "widen" the "Overton Window" of public discourse without falling into the abyss of Nihilism. Socialist forces appear to have successfully managed public discourse (and the Overton Window). Virtue Signalling, Political Correctness, the dominance of media, Hollywood, workplace HR by socialist groups and principles seem to have conspired to dominate public discourse. In certain cases we have seen a split between "the Media and Entertainment Industry" and "The Public"- notable cases appear to have been the "surprise" election of US President Donald Trump and the election of Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison. The Media and Entertainment Industry has often been also promoted as reflecting the grassroots values of the community- but they have been shown at least in certain cases to be astro-turf. Perhaps as the M&E Industry is disrupted by online sources the expertise is being hollowed out in similar ways to the Labor/ Greens Party's and the Union's and left with a core of Socialist Ideologues (if you were a Capitalist Ideologue you wouldn't hang around with declining wages and opportunities)- this seems to be an international trend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism Though we need to be on guard against hostile black grey and white propaganda from the communists. It's easy to underestimate the power of propaganda- I need to finish Edward Bernays book on Propaganda one day- also Plato's Rhetoric- though pretty boring- is probably also instructive on the art of propaganda- another book half finished. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_propaganda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato-rhetoric Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 2 June 2019 8:12:14 AM
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The ABC and SBS are also big propaganda threats to Traditional White Australian culture in their insidious Communist influences.
The question is what do Trotskyist Communists believe in? Are these principles pervasive in our culture and what motivates them and why? Seek and you'll find... http://www.biblehub.com/matthew/7-7.htm Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 2 June 2019 8:12:56 AM
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Traditional White Australian culture is under threat- we are fighting for our survival- there will be setbacks- there will be betrayal by those within our ranks- it doesn't seem like we will survive- but we must have the courage in the face of horror- this is our heritage.
Hopefully we will honour our ancestors. Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 2 June 2019 8:20:29 AM
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Dear CM,
Really? Name a single policy that Labour took to the election which was Trotsky in nature. And what is this crap? "Traditional White Australian culture is under threat- we are fighting for our survival- there will be setbacks- there will be betrayal by those within our ranks- it doesn't seem like we will survive- but we must have the courage in the face of horror- this is our heritage. Hopefully we will honour our ancestors." This could have been straight out of the NZ shooter's manifesto. Are you really another deluded knock-kneed snowflake who is contemplating using automatic weapons on a bunch of unarmed civilians because of some imagined terror twisting your mental state? Really pathetic young fella. Posted by SteeleRedux, Sunday, 2 June 2019 8:57:33 AM
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I was browsing the web and found this interesting gem- "the dead cat defense"- apparently its an Australian invention.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9906445/This-cap-on-bankers-bonuses-is-like-a-dead-cat-pure-distraction.html Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 2 June 2019 9:08:04 AM
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The key point, says my Australian friend, is that everyone will shout “Jeez, mate, there’s a dead cat on the table!”
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 2 June 2019 9:10:34 AM
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To SteeleRedux via the chair- Do you think your criticism of Donald Trump is going to lead to your assassination of the US President?
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 2 June 2019 9:49:12 AM
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CM,
Like many inanities attributed to Australians by foreigners, the dead cat one would be another that is news to us. Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 2 June 2019 10:21:05 AM
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Dear CM,
You asked; "Do you think your criticism of Donald Trump is going to lead to your assassination of the US President?" Well firstly I would have had to claim he was an existential threat, along the lines of "it doesn't seem like we will survive". I haven't, but you have used those words. What you have written marks you as a deluded nutter. Why shouldn't you be on a watch list? Do you own or have easy access to firearms? Posted by SteeleRedux, Sunday, 2 June 2019 11:08:01 AM
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CM with respect, not sure you are aware but in defending the Mad ego Donald Trump, you tell me you are a victim
See he uses folk like you, he could not careless about you, but uses you to hide the fact he is, and always was,a fraud Every day that passes is one day closer to his down fall,you may brand it fake news but again victims are often blind Posted by Belly, Sunday, 2 June 2019 1:01:04 PM
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http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace/unions-opt-out-of-backing-nsw-alp-leadership-candidate-20190602-p51tpx.html
Again thread that seems to have had its time But the link, while giving ammo to my opponents is starkly highlighting Labors job ahead Unions gave birth to Labor, even the then future great man Whilam, had to front the NSW right union boss Charly Oliver [AWU] to get permission to lead Looking back? dark days for both my party and union control of it We have every right to think those days are over But we rank and file get to vote for our leaders, IF it is a contested ballot In the Shorten V Albo one,six years ago, we elected Albo, The party machine? overruled us The NSW leadership is contested, we are being flooded with reasons to vote for each of two Albo, the ALP must know, the child of the union movement has grown up, left home long ago, it needs no control by other than the voters it must win back Posted by Belly, Monday, 3 June 2019 7:23:35 AM
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Belly said -
Albo, the ALP must know, the child of the union movement has grown up, left home long ago, it needs no control by other than the voters it must win back Answer- It's the party that votes for the pre-selection not the voters. I once thought too that the unions had too much power within the movement. But at least the people in the industries felt that they had some connection with the party. Now the party has moved too far to the Socialist side. Those within the party will die for their beliefs rather than submit- perhaps this will be the death of the Labor Party. The pre-selection need to be replaced and in order for this to occur the members need to be replaced. Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 3 June 2019 6:43:11 PM
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The Liberal Party has the same problem with its
pre-selection. The party makes the choices, not its members. I know, we've been stuck with the same old coot for decades. What about Pauline Hanson's candidates? Doesn't she choose who runs? She's the party! Posted by Foxy, Monday, 3 June 2019 7:09:39 PM
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Canem you are in part right but Foxy is very much so too
See in threads like this my effort is to highlight Labor and its needs, I could, in post after post, warn the Liberals share most of my highlighted concerns Labor? it is a very real truth, depending on your age you may or not know about the faceless men It was in the 1950,s and 60,s a truth used against us constantly See we did do as those faceless, [a play on the fact few knew them,] men from the union movement Whitlam bought change,but not the end of faceless men/Caucus, they exist still Not as powerful but exist I cannot defend my party's candidate selection process It produces office managers,bottom lickers, and a few real gems, but never ever a grass roots worker I long for that type of honesty here from a conservative My sure and certain knowing my views are shared by many in my party, that our humiliating defeats, in state and federal, are the fuel for another great reform storm in my party, makes me happy A purely union controlled ALP can never rule this country, just as one that ignores unions does not deserve to rule Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 7:56:40 AM
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That we are the party of reform, and action on climate change
But must understand the implications of being seen as green left
Coal,we have coal, others want to buy it
We need the jobs [without bending laws to protect the environment]
If we do not sell it others will.
How is letting others supply it stopping carbon build up?
While they are buying it is insane for us not to sell it
I believe in the science, but too in the maths, bleating about being climate change fighters while burning the billions of dollars we can make is plain dumb