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The Forum > General Discussion > Where to for Zali Steggal?

Where to for Zali Steggal?

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Assuming that the coalition picks up 77 seats in the lower house, Zali Steggal after all the fanfare is now facing the prospect of 3 years on the back bench far from home earning a fraction of what she is earning presently with a government that doesn't need her vote and that is at best ambivalent to her presence.

Tony Abbott on the other hand will now be due taxpayer funded office and car in the Warringah electorate on a pension of nearly $500k p.a. on top of whatever he can earn (which given his qualifications could be considerable) plus the ability to lobby far more effectively for Warringah than Zali can, and can merrily white ant her while she is warming the backbench by claiming any benefits that accrue to the electorate.

And at the end of the 3 years for which she has nothing to show, she will be faced with another election in a pro liberal seat where TA is no longer an opponent, but a vocal supporter of the new challenger.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 20 May 2019 10:44:44 AM
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Wow, Shadow a 12% swing against Abbott, please explain, yesterdays man no longer wanted by the very liberal minded people of Warringah. I never agreed with, for the last time, The Mad Monks politics, but I will commend Tony Abbott for his civic pride, and the efforts he has put in for his local community.

Surprisingly Independents often build a relationship with the locals that party people never achieve. Andrew Wilkie in Tassie, increased his personal vote by 6%. Then there was the blow in, high profile, relative of Chock's, Warren Mundine whose parachute completely failed to open in the seat of Gilmore NSW.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 9:55:03 AM
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Three years in parliament, only because the gullible fools who voted for her can't get rid of her before that - then back to oblivion.
Abbott lost, she didn't win.

See also Phelps and the Greek woman in Chisolm, who also think that being female is something special.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 10:38:42 AM
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Hi Paul,

Yes, you never know what millions of dollars and thousands of Labor Party 'volunteers' can do. But Shadow Minister makes some very valid points which you seem to ignore.

But in spite of all that Get-Up money, Steggall is suggesting that she will back the government on most issues except on their position on greenhouse effect/climate change/climate CRISIS! of one degree temperature rise every 160 years, and one-inch sea-level rise every ten years. Or will the Greens now pivot away to focus the attention of small children on pollution ? About time. There's a rich - and genuine - vein to tap.

I wonder if Abbott will challenge for the seat next time around ? Will Get-Up fork out another few million to keep him at bay ? Watch this space.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 10:46:12 AM
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Getup have obviously too much negative gearing savings to splash around. Imagine the community projects they could start & actually give real people real jobs !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 11:25:13 AM
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Morrison should appoint Abbott as a gw alarmist Ambassador to the UN instead of Bishop. Now would not that put the icing on then cake.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 11:29:04 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

What a miserable post.

The lady has won the seat with a groud swell of public support and joins other independents who sit in the house of reps. Wilke increased his vote by 4.4% and Indi was handed over to a fresh independent in Heln Haines. However none of your post was directed at them was it. You are just butt hurt that your man Abbott got shown the door.

Dear Loudmouth,

Getup spent one twentieth of what Clive did. One wonders what deal Scomo did with him but one thing is for certain his support will not have come for free. Yet you feel more aggrieved about Getup. Why?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 12:55:09 PM
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Steele,

Marx would say, always seek out the class basis for political activity. I would have thought that Manly & environs were ripe for Greens assault, on that class basis: affluent, well-educated, with that superior born-to-rule attitude, and probably very virtuous about the environment, they have the bumper stickers to prove it.

But you put your finger on an interesting phenomenon: that sections of formerly-Liberal supporters have concerns about the environment - that the Greens are getting increased support, not necessarily from Labor voters but from Liberal voters.

I wonder if Antony Green is doing an analysis along those lines right now, and surmising that from now on, the greens will get their votes from Liberal voters (certainly not from Nationals voters) and, of course, from the children coming through school and uni - while disaffected Labor voters are moving towards fruit-cake parties like One Nation.

I think that's quite appalling really: I would much rather see the Labor Party representing and working for actual working people rather than trying to catch the educated upper- and middle-class vote.

I really do think that Marx would be fascinated by the way things are turning out.

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 1:22:55 PM
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Indi got another Indy, (Sorry, just had to say it!!).
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 1:25:58 PM
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Dear Loudmouth,

You wrote;

"I would much rather see the Labor Party representing and working for actual working people rather than trying to catch the educated upper- and middle-class vote."

So trying to bring back penalty rates for some of our most lowly paid workers or the $1000 every two years to go to pensioner dental health was not enough for you?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 1:53:39 PM
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Dear Loudmouth,

Further you wrote;

“I really do think that Marx would be fascinated by the way things are turning out.”

A single wealthy industrial/mining fatcat outspent a grass roots organisation (made up of thousands of ordinary Australians) by a factor of 20, much of it stripped from the pockets of his former workers, to warp a democratic election and you are asking what Marx would thought?

Oh gee whizz, I wonder.

You still haven't given a perspective on Clive.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 2:04:11 PM
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Hi Steele,

I didn't mean to suggest that Marx would have supported a venture capitalist like Palmer. But he would be fascinated by the development of a well-educated, well-paid class of virtuous people who purport to be on the Left. He might have been surprised at the abandonment of the working class by parties purportedly on the left, as well as the evolution of its rather non-revolutionary nature.

Some academic, I hope, is busy writing about the changes in class politics since Marx's time. Not that they would get it past any university's research ethics committee.

In 'defence' of Palmer, he did spread his sixty million of free money around a couple of hundred electorates, not like the rather paranoid-psychotic multi-million focus of Get-Up! on individuals like Abbott. And Dutton too - how did that go ?

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 2:12:04 PM
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SR,

While I'm sad to see Abbott go, there is a lot more that I am chuffed about.

1 Labor got creamed as did their luvies
2 Labor, the unions and Getup burnt their way through roughly $50m to no effect,
3 Getup got so involved that they are almost certain to get limited by donation laws
4 Oakeshott got drop kicked
5 Kerryn Phelps got drop kicked
5 Palmer who gave us the retard Lambie got zilch
6 Zali is now in an invidious position where if she breaks her promise and votes for labor it will be used against her in 3 years, and if she votes for the coalition, no one cares. That she's torched her career to make no difference far from her home and children is a bonus.
7 QSL labor is now looking to get creamed next year.

P.S. If you think Getup is a grass roots organisation you are delusional.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 2:28:59 PM
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She won her spurs, taking Abbott down, she is in truth a Liberal
And will one day become one
Before that she has a platform to sell her and her Liberal voters climate change story
IF I was a Liberal her victory would make me feel warm and content this morning
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 2:31:13 PM
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In future elections, we'll probably see more of GetUp and of like tactics, which will, inevitably, provoke violence.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 3:07:54 PM
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Zali might as well continue working for getup as her vote will count for nothing in the Parliament.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 3:10:49 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

You squeezed your bile ducts and gave us this; "Palmer who gave us the retard Lambie got zilch"

Firstly Jackie Lambie might not fit your toff notions about who should sit in our parliament but I for one am glad she is back. Don't agree with a lot of her policies but she is one of the few people in that place who calls it like it is. For you to call her a retard speaks directly to your petty and miserable nature which you should really attend to.

Dear Loudmouth,

Why is voting for a party striving to retrieve penalty rates for some of Australia's most lowly paid workers abandoning the working class? If anything Labour attempted to return to some of its core values and yet you are trying to paint the effort as false. Not buying it I'm afraid.

Secondly if you think Palmer got zilch out of this then you are deluded as well as petty. What he would have stitched up with ScoMo will perhaps never come out in the wash but there is no doubt he is headed for some very favourable treatment.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 3:45:25 PM
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The bitter uninformed far right known here as the usual suspects need to know the very right was defeated too
And that this is not the last election
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 4:32:30 PM
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Voting in an independent into the lower house is daft, as the people of Wentworth will find over the next three years. The skier will be a one term wonder.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 4:42:00 PM
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SR,

I think the reason you are getting your panties in a bunch is because you have no counter to what I have said.

Lambie is trailer trash with the IQ of a squirrel. She needed someone to read the budget papers to her because she had no clue.

I suppose that it is fitting that you are represented by a member of home erectus.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 5:45:50 PM
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SR

WRT Palmer, maybe the russians were involved with Palmer Like you claimed they were with Trump.

Palmer got preferences from the liberals in return for his preferences, just like the greens got preferences from Labor.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 5:51:18 PM
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I hope she enjoys her 3 years in solitary.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 5:52:04 PM
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Shadow Minister,
3 years, yeah well, the other one had 7 months to prove her uselessness !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 7:46:21 PM
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The much vaunted Liberal tax cuts are proving to be a lie. Now the Liberals are admitting they cannot deliver tax cuts in July as promised. what else wont they deliver?

The messiah from the shire, is proving to be the liar from the shire!
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 8:06:07 PM
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Damn posted to wrong thread.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Why on earth did you bring up Trump and the Russians? This is far more obvious than that. These are the projects of Palmer's Waratah Coal which were hinging on the result.

http://www.waratahcoal.com/alpha-north-coal-project/

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-26/clive-palmer-seeks-approval-for-monster-mine-near-adani/9698680

Chuck in a large coal powered power station too near the site.

https://www.waratahcoal.com/clive-palmers-waratah-coal-announces-new-coal-fired-power-station-for-queensland/

For you to be flippant about there being any motive for Clive to spend $80 million on getting the Libs in either shows deep ignorance or just spreading bulldust around with gay abandon.

Part of the reason our company tax regime is on the high side is the fact that so many companies pay little or zero tax. This doesn't happen to anywhere near the same extent in other countries.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 11:01:36 PM
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This doesn't happen to anywhere near the same extent in other countries.
SteeleRedux,
Very similar scenario to the Public Service.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 8:27:10 AM
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Do we really need to continue to give our former
PMs all the perks that they continue to get in
their retirement? Who else in the corporate world
get entitlements like the ones our politicians
continue to do long after they've left office?

Surely this needs to be stopped?
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 11:20:45 AM
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Tony's generous pension is nothing compared with the tens of millions he saved by stopping the illegal boat trade. Certainly Rudd and Gillard had no legacy except debt for this nation to 'earn' there pensions.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 2:22:19 PM
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runner,

Each of the PMs that you mentioned did have
their achievements. All you have to do is
Google them. It is time we stopped being so
critical of each other. We live in the best
country in the world.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 3:35:00 PM
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Foxy,

" We live in the best
country in the world."

and where no one is in poverty.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 4:31:46 PM
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OLO's may wish to sign this petition,

http://www.change.org/p/zali-steggall-wind-farms-for-warringah?signed=true

Seems like a good idea.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 4:39:41 PM
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Is Mise,

The virtuous people of Warringah will probably use GetUP! to campaign for a wind farm across Blacktown. And maybe half a square mile of housing there to be bulldozed for a no-CO2 solar array. They would oppose any CO2 ever hovering over Warringah: Clean Air for Warringah ! Now !

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 5:00:09 PM
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SR,

I'm sorry if I don't buy into your BS conspiracy theories. If you see the stock market you will see that just about every business in the country had a vested interest in returning a sensible government, e.g. Twiggy Forest is worth 100s of $ms more now. If CP's motivation was to boost the libs he could have spent his $50m far far more effectively.

I think you're just trying to find excuses for why Labor got thrashed.

As for that BS about company taxes, do you really swallow labor's line all the time?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 5:27:24 PM
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One thing is for shore Paul.

We will be getting a lot less blackouts than we would under Shortens crazy wind power plan.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 5:34:32 PM
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and a lot less flat electric cars by the wayside.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 6:46:41 PM
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I see that queensland labor is accelerating Adani's approval.

I guess that someone has got the message
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 7:09:55 PM
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" We live in the best country in the world."

We almost didn't !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 11:22:37 PM
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Adani- Another issue about the scourge of foreign money. Yes the people want jobs but do they want the jobs to be provided by a foreign Indian company that will probably preference their own national ethnicity. I can understand that people that want to be able to put food on their tables may not be concerned with "strings attached". Naively many preach that this is not an invasion- we'll see.

I'm surprised that we can't find a home grown developer for the mine- it often seems to come down to the money being used as an excuse for "porous borders".
Posted by Canem Malum, Thursday, 23 May 2019 5:57:26 AM
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Another issue about the scourge of foreign money.
Canem Malum,
To be more precise, isn't it more a matter of some Australians' greed being the scourge that is coveting foreign money ?
I agree with you why don't our industrialists take the initiative ? Is it too much red tape, Green interference or simply a case of no soon enough profit ?
Australia is now at the doorstep of where it can become a model Nation for a sustainability based economy if the greed factor can be curbed. There is a chance of harnessing common sense & become more self-sufficient.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 23 May 2019 7:01:41 AM
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Perhaps there needs to be greater restrictions about foreign investment in Australia. It comes down to border control.

With a focus on "ethical investment" there may be a disincentive for western companies perhaps to invest in coal. BP for example appears to be placing a greater emphasis on solar power in recent years. Or perhaps an Indian Coal Company may be more successful in exporting to India if that is its final market. In either case we may be getting a bad deal. I suspect that certain countries are better not to engage with on a business level for the interest of Australia. Our natural resources are our future- gold in the vault- mining law seemingly based on precedent of 150 years seems to give resource companies disproportionate rights over our Australian inheritance. A discussion of a mining tax in past years which seemed to attempt to address this view.

We shouldn't throw our cultural inheritance away or allow it to be taken from us.

Individual said-
Australia.. at the doorstep of where it can become a model Nation for a sustainability based economy if the greed factor can be curbed. ..a chance of harnessing common sense &..more self-sufficient.

Answer-
I don't see greed as much of an issue as traitorous acts to our own culture- which can be based on greed. This perhaps is the difference between money earned and money acquired. Money earned involves some mental creativity where as money acquired is basically stealing. A "sustainability based economy"- I assume you mean an economy in which Australia is more self sufficient- rather than an economy that runs on sustainable resources (this is a little complex as previous threads suggest).

The concept of "harnessing common sense & becoming more self-sufficient" is appealing. Everyone needs to "balance their budget" nations need to maintain "balance of trade". We need to focus more on high value added tertiary goods rather than low value added primary goods in our international transactions. Calling them low value goods can be problematic though as it may convince us to sell them at deflated world prices.
Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 25 May 2019 6:42:14 AM
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Adani will not only provide 1000s of jobs but will provide $bns in royalty taxes to the state government, and in PAYE, GST, and company tax.

Is is ethical to take away the services that this would provide from the electorate?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 26 May 2019 4:43:15 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

You wrote;

"Adani will not only provide 1000s of jobs but will provide $bns in royalty taxes to the state government, and in PAYE, GST, and company tax."

God strewth mate you post some tripe.

Come on, Adani not only has a 5 year waiver on royalties once production properly starts they will be holding their hand our for public subsidies for a long time before a drop of tax falls our way. Twiggy bloody Forrester did not pay a single cent of taxes for the first 9 years of operation this is despite his personal wealth topping 14 billion dollars.

"The Federal Government has attacked Fortescue Metals Group (FMG) chairman Andrew Forrest over the revelation his business has never paid company tax."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-09/fortescue-mining-company-tax/3655270
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 27 May 2019 8:49:31 PM
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SR,

This is from someone that supports the ultimate Labor vanity project in the car industry that at the end was subsidising 100% of workers wages to still make a loss.

A 5 yr royalty tax break on the small production when a mine is starting up is not a subsidy the government is still getting revenue from PAYE, GST, etc.

Forrest is still paying $bns in royalties, GST, Paye etc. That the $bns he has spent on infrastructure can be written off against company tax is standard tax policy world wide.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 3:34:08 AM
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Shadow, forever the apologists for the multinational tax avoiders. Are you on their payroll or something?
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 9:11:37 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

Paye tax? It wasn't paid by Twiggy mate, rather his company collected it from the workers employed there and paid it to the tax department. It is the worker's tax contribution not his.

The royalty bill is 7.5% to the state government so less than $500,000 PA.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 12:25:32 AM
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SR,

I don't know where you dig up your BS.

Fortescue paid $545m in royalties in 2017 (perhaps you just left out 000) and "income" tax of $847m.

https://www.fmgl.com.au/docs/default-source/default-document-library/fy2017-annual-report.pdf

The royalty tax system is aimed at 10% of the mine head value of a product.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 8:24:46 AM
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Anyway, to get back to topic, Zali Steggall and her passion for the environment: in support of her cause, an on-line petition to build wind towers in Wahroonga has gathered more than twenty thousand signatures.

Next, a petition for solar arrays to replace all that unnecessary parkland in Wahroonga ? We have to act before it is too late to save the environment and reduce global warming ? [Can I still use that term ? ] How to otherwise prevent runaway sea-level rise at Manly and drastic temperature rise across Wahroonga ?

We're in a crisis ! Act now ! Renewable energy for Wahroonga !

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 9:24:29 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

You write;

"Fortescue paid $545m in royalties in 2017 (perhaps you just left out 000) and "income" tax of $847m."

Come on mate, the 2018 report is easy enough to find. In it you will see the royalty fee of $416 million dollars. But that isn't the whole story is it. To get the true figure we need to take off what it has cost both governments in terms of subsidies, foregone taxes, cost to the environment etc. The absolute return to government coffers is less than $500,000.
http://www.fmgl.com.au/docs/default-source/annual-reporting-suite/fy18-annual-report.pdf
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 30 May 2019 2:01:20 PM
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SR,

From the FY 2018 report you supplied

"Government royalty US$ millions - 416"

"Total taxes paid A$ 1.2bn"

"We are proud of our achievements and our
ongoing contribution to Western Australia
and the country’s economic strength. Since
Fortescue began, we have paid corporate
taxes of more than A$3 billion, royalties
to the State of more than A$4.5 billion
and have invested over US$22 billion in
Australia’s economy. "
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 31 May 2019 9:38:39 AM
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The absolute return to government coffers is less than $500,000.

That's still substantially more than what we get in value from our Public Servants though !
Posted by individual, Saturday, 1 June 2019 6:00:53 AM
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Steele, Shadow has difficulty understanding the financial statement the check-out chick gives him at the supermarket, how do expect him to understand that one you put up?
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 2 June 2019 9:37:25 PM
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