The fire that destroyed a large part of Notre Dame Cathedral has caused an outpouring of generosity that has seen millions of dollars pledged towards its restoration.

Bill Shorten apparently sees a contribution as a vote-getter, but should Australia kick in?

Australia as a nation should not. But I'm sure many Australians will as individuals, and rightly so.

Do you mean should Australian aid finally go to something useful? Sure, why not.

Of course not! And Morrison said it's not going to happen. It's a shame that the fire occurred, but it's up to the French, with whom we have no particular ties, to sort it out.

Of course we should.

Notre Dame does not just belong to Paris. It
belongs to the world.

We have always helped people in times of need.
Australians have always rallied around those
who needed help. Australians now need to
show solidarity once again with the people of
France.

An Australian fund could be established to
support the restoration and this would as our
former Prime Minster Malcolm Turnbull suggests
enable individual Australians and foundations
to make a contribution if they wished.

The Australian Government could also make
a contribution if it wanted to.

I had always assumed that Notre Dame was owned by
the Vatican. But I've since learned that in 1905
a French law was passed stating that the Cathedral
was the property of the French state. Therefore
the responsibility for the maintenance and upkeep
of the building falls under the responsibility of
the French Monistry of Culture.

They certainly could use all the financial help
they can. Hopefully, the Vatican will still come
and help by any means they see fit.

I shall be contributing to whatever fund is set up.

Foxy,

It does indeed belong to the French Government and if it was not insured adequately against fire, then that is their misfortune; whilst I'm not against helping the uninsured where they cannot afford the cost this hardly applies to France.

France has a population of 65,428,142 (2019), so a couple of bucks per person ought to go a long way towards a rebuild.
This time they could use fireproof materials, like metal roof frames and build the spire out of aluminium and use aluminium cladding on the roof,

Had they used the better materials available in the 1920s, when it was last rebuilt, this disaster could have been avoided and the insurance would have been less.

It's a French Government building so that Government is solely responsible for it.

"We have always helped people in times of need".

What needy people? This is a building that we are talking about. The absurd idea of Australia chipping in was first raised by the equally absurd, failed Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull; not a great advocate for people. With all the 'needy people' in the world, it is quite disgusting to suggest that Australian taxpayer's money should be used for a foreign building. While individuals can do as they please with their own money, it would be pure grandstanding and in very poor taste when there are actually needy people they could help out. Look-at-me grandstanding at its worst.

One way to look at it is that Notre Dame is a historical symbol of western and Christian culture in a country that is perhaps being influenced by the large scale immigration of other cultures and Australia is a western nation of traditionally Christian culture.

It would be a sign of solidarity perhaps to offer some support.

But we can't help everyone.

Why make it about politics
OH yes that's right, this government headed for defeat makes everything about politics, highlighting truth is not a requirement
Yes donate, not billions maybe not millions but this world needs a little inclusiveness
This is a worthwhile start

In Sun Tzu's Art Of War it says "let a rabbit in the door and you'll never get him out". Beware of the "inclusiveness rabbit". Many do-gooders don't understand perhaps their level of subversiveness.

Imagine what all this money could do for Law & Order or Health or generally stimulating the economy ?
$750 million for a symbol of people control & superstition ? Notre Dame is a beautiful piece of architecture & it is extremely saddening that they could be so careless. Stabilise the left-overs but rebuilding ? Even if they could do it perfectly, everyone would know that it is no longer the 800 year old structure so, no historical value anymore.
Use the money for rebuilding society instead of a church !

Canem Malum,
I agree, and you can see how the split of opinion over this – some quite pronounced – more or less aligns with political views. Surreptitiously, this is a deeper issue than a mere ‘church.’ I, as a Westerner, would feel far more connection with the Australian government reaching out to help over this than probably 99% of the nonsense our tremendous amounts of aid money goes to

Correction.
It was Notre Dame de Reims that was rebuilt in the 1920s, not Notre Dame de Paris.

There's always the demolition option.

The hypocrisy of people who shun the past, call themselves 'progressive' and hate Christianity, old things and old people, is amazing on this subject.

To Ahenobarbus- Thanks for your comments.

Those that don't earn money the hard way find it easy to spend perhaps. I can understand those that have paid their taxes for their lives measure their money in terms of their suffering- and so they don't give it out easily.

We have only our own life experiences to go on.
I have found that on my journey through life
it is the spirit of the human being that can
fill me with more joy than anything in the world.

Perhaps it is a cultural thing - but I have seen
that those who have the least worldly goods are the
ones who generously are willing to
share what they have with others.

I hope that this will never change in this beautiful
sun-burnt land of ours.

Just preserve the ruins & leave it at that ! Build a small model by all means but don't re-build !
Sentimentality shouldn't cost that much.

Do you feel the same way about the ANZAC Memorials,
and our War Museums?

"Do you feel the same way about the ANZAC Memorials,
and our War Museums?"

Well, I don't, but then they don't have wooden roof trusses, I hope!

If they catch fire I wouldn't expect the French to help with their rebuilding either.

Is Mise,

You are of course entitled to your views.

However, many would disagree with you.

Australia has very strong relations with France.
Australia's legacy of Australian involvement
on French soil in the 1st and 2nd World Wars
plays an important role in the bilateral relationship.
Over 45,000 Australians lost their lives on French
soil in the two conflicts.

Each year many Australians travel to the Western
Front to commemorate the thousands of Australians
who were killed and injured there.

And that's not all. There's so much more - dialogue
and practical cooperation between France and
Australia has been strengthening on many fronts in
recent years.

Foxy,

Still, no reason to contribute taxpayers' money when a French Government building burns down.

There's plenty that needs doing in Australia.

Is Mise,

That's up to the individual Australians and their
families to decide. The current government has
made it's position quite clear. Although things
may well change after the election in May.

If Europe and especially France continue with their mad immigration policies they will be wasting their money. It will be burn't down again.

Runner,

So ........ immigration caused this terrible fire ?

I thought that immigration was bad enough, causing traffic congestion, unemployment, increased crime, environmental degradation and rising house prices, but this is a new one :)

Joe

'So ........ immigration caused this terrible fire ? '

well Joe with this fire the cause is yet to be determined. For the churches that are burned every 2 weeks in Europe yes you can see its directly related to immigration. You can choose to remain ignorance if you choose.

just a little info for those wanting to know

https://theblacksphere.net/2019/04/funny-how-churches-suddenly-burning-in-france-and-elsewhere-in-europe/

personally buildings mean little to me but one needs to be blind and ignorant to Islam not to realise how offensive churches and particularly crosses are to many muslims.

particularly crosses
runner,
Christ wasn't actually on a cross as such so far as I am now aware. Not that the horrible suffering was any less but I was recently told that he was on a stake.
R.I.P.

runner,
We don’t know if there was foul play involved with this fire. However, you’re right to be suspicious based on recent church desecrations. I will say there were a lot of ‘laugh reacts’ on Facebook over Notre Dame coming from, well, names you would associate with immigrants – to put it tactfully. There was unmistakable glee coming from certain segments of the populace and it fits with the wider problems Western Europe is having with their new arrivals. Things won’t be getting easier there anytime soon.

' Not that the horrible suffering was any less but I was recently told that he was on a stake.'

sounds like you have been with the Jw's Individual. They have numerous heresies. They often make a big fuss about the cross being a pagan symbol. In places in the bible we are told Jesus died on a tree. Its the symbolism ( again which I care little about) that upsets the muslims and causes them to destroy churches around the world.

If the Christian church lived by it's claimed principles it would never build these great edifice in the first place. They are an ego trip by the senior church leaders, & should be condemned as a waste of money.

The money wasted on these monstrosities could do a lot of good, rather than pandering to the few.

Hasbeen,

Think of it as jobs.

Comment3-

I still think managing the rise of globalism is far more achievable than stopping it

Answer3- At least you seem to support the idea that slowing the rise of globalism is desirable. In that at least we agree. But I'm sure you wouldn't agree- even though I believe it follows- that Nationalism being the opposite of Globalism is "the embodiment of the policy of slowing the rise of globalism". So I would say that even Belly seems to be adopting Nationalist views despite his claimed identification. Being Nationalist is a broad concept- most countries in the past were Nationalistic. I believe that with the founding of the UN certain correlating factors and the rise of certain organisational influences led to the concept of Nationalism being denigrated

Posted by Belly, Saturday, 20 April 2019 3:51:27 PM

Comment1-

CM never doubt many you brand socialist think just as I do
We however are not socialists

Answer1-

I didn't actually call you a Socialist at least in this case. I said you were a Social Liberalist otherwise known as a Social Libertarian. If your policies are Social Libertarian you are a Social Libertarian what ever you claim to identify with. Multiculturalism is a Social Liberalist policy if you support it you are supporting Social Liberalism. Socialists and Communists use Social Liberalist policies as shock tactics as Trotsky advocates in his permanent revolution. So Social Libertarian's and Liberal concepts generally seem to be the tools used by Communists to direct their "Useful Idiots". Marcuse and others of the Frankfurt school are interesting case study's of the link between Communism and Social Libertarianism. The movement that led to links between Gay society and the Workers movement saw the strengthening of the Liberalist nature and the power of the movement. Some would say this was good for workers others would argue it detracted from the core aim of the workers. The arguments that I've heard seem to talk about the class warfare of Marx hence the links with Communism. Of a slight tangent the "class warfare" argument is similar to the "they came for the gays but I wasn't gay" Jewish/ solidarity argument.

However your accusation is probably valid as I believe it is somewhat irrelevant whether a person is a Communist or just a tool of the Communists.

Comment2-

The lurch to the right, powered by refugee/migration has seen the once average now branded extreme.

Answer2-

Not sure what you are saying here.
But I think this has been covered elsewhere.

If the Christian church lived by it's claimed principles it would never build these great edifice in the first place.
Hasbeen,
My sentiments also !

Yes. We have overlooked the indulgences of the church hierarchies - building great edifices and amassing wealth - in times when most people lived miserable lives in abject poverty; when churches had a lot of authority that they misused, by and large. Things are better in the 21st. Century, but the huge sums required to refurbish Notre Dame could be better used for other purposes.

Besides, given France's Godless indulgence of Muslims within its borders, the thing will probably be totally destroyed by the end of the century.

Geoffrey Luck, in Quadrant Online 21/4, smells a rat in the smoke of Notre Dame. He thinks that people don't need to be addicted to conspiracies to be surprised at the speed with which authorities declared the fire to be “an accident”; “involuntary destruction by fire” ( there's a new one!).

A month ago, arson was committed on the church of Saint-Sulpice (several hundred million Euros of damage”. “At the same time”, a mediaeval abbey north of Paris was vandalised. It contained the tombs of kings, and that of Charles Martel, who “ended the Muslim invasion of Europe …. a Tours in 732”.

The church 'Notre-Dame-des-Efants in Nimes was looted and desecrated with human excrement. There is a link there with another Christian defeat of Muslims.

Nine French churches were damaged in 11 days. Luck writes that there appears to have been a “coordinated attack across France that WAS NOT MENTIONED in the mainstream media or by the politicians responsible for the mass immigration lf Muslims.

875 French churches were vandalised last year.

In addition to the above,

"Update:

Sri Lanka police say more than 50 people killed in blast at a church in Katuwapitiya, north of Colombo"

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/at-least-20-people-killed-and-160-injured-after-serial-blasts-hit-sri-lanka/ar-BBW8Urf?&ocid=spartanntp

A vigil and flower laying are being planned for Martin Place in Sydney and police have asked people to not let the myriad of wreaths spill over onto the roadways nor down the steps of the Underground (Railway for those not familiar with the area).

and a link to Quadrant,
http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2019/04/the-desecration-of-frances-christian-symbols-and-heritage/

the speed with which authorities declared the fire to be “an accident”;
ttbn,
That was the first thought that came to my mind ! All we need to do is wait for a politician with decent-sized gonads to tell what really happened.

With that Billion Dollars it'd cost to rebuild France could repatriate a huge slice of their problem !

On the news last night - yellow jackets have increased the intensity of their demonstrations, now objecting to the money that will be spent on an old religious building when the French people are struggling with the cost of living under the autocratic Napoleon Macron.

If you rely only on the MSM, you would be unaware that the riots in Paris have not stopped: they happen every weekend. The MSM has lost interest - that's all.

It's interesting when you think about it.

Pretty well at the centre of ALL 'man-made' troubles on this Planet is...

ISLAM!

'Pretty well at the centre of ALL 'man-made' troubles on this Planet is...

ISLAM!

sorry can't agree O sung wu

the trouble is the god denying Marxist whose dogmas include all cultures are equal (except for wicked Judea Christian), killing millions of unborn is a right, sex with anyone and anything (unless Catholic Priest) is ok, all men are equal (except white males), all women are superior to men (except conservative women).

Don't get me wrong Islam is the cause of much much evil but I doubt as much as secularism.

IMHO regardless of who owns the building and its cultural impact the
cathedral is a Catholic church. The Catholic church organisation has great resources and should pay for the restoration of the cathedral.

Neither Australian nor French taxpayers should foot any of the bill except voluntarily.

The French will almost certainly reconstruct Notre Dame,
Which seems appropriate given its centrality to both
civic and religious life and its rich and
controversial history. The rest of us will decide its
historical meaning and its ongoing value to us today.

Hi there RUNNER ol' Mate...

Of course, you're right! I think to abandon many of the Christian principles - The Western World is going backward, at a fast rate of knots. As you may recall, I'm an atheist. But many of the rules, lessons, and principles contained in the New Testament, of the King James Bible are spot on!

Not only that, much of our jurisprudence (criminal) is based principally on the New Testament as well as the Ten Commandments, which are in the Old Testament (I think). The 'rules' or guidelines I like best, are those that have been articulated by Jesus himself (again, I think)? Like 'turning the other cheek' if assaulted?

All these rules are ethical, and an excellent standard by which to live, and if we did so, most coppers would be out of work. Secularism would be OK too if we 'only' had one world religion, without the different components arguing among each other. Somehow, I don't think we'll ever see it, in our lifetimes?

david f,

That's a new one, the tenant paying for the landlord's property to be restored.

Dear Is Mise,

A tenant does have some responsibility even though it's the landlord's property. If I rent an apartment and punch holes in the walls it is not the responsibility of the landlord to fix those holes for me. It is my responsibility to pay for the damage to the landlord's property if the damage is incurred by other than normal usage. I suspect that the cathedral became the property of the French government so the Catholic church would not have to pay for the upkeep. A tenant should pay rent for the use of the landlord's property. I doubt that the Catholic church pays the French government any rent.

As sad as it is to see such a beautiful building & of such incredible age to be reduced to ruins,
it should be left a ruin.
Spend the available funding on bettering deserving peoples' lives ! I'm certain that God would prefer that !

david f,

Are you suggesting that the Catholic Church set fire to the place?

Dear Is Mise,

The cause of the fire has been attributed to a faulty electrical connection, and I see no reason to doubt it. If the Catholic church were devoid of resources it would be proper for government funds to be used to restore the building. However, the Catholic church has many financial resources, and decisions on restoration should be left up to that institution. If individuals want to contribute to the restoration they should be allowed to.

If individuals want to contribute to the restoration they should be allowed to.
david f,
Agree and, they should not be able to write these donations off their taxable income.

david f,

I fail to see why the tenant should pay for the landlord's building, especially when the landlord has been neglecting his responsibilities for years and allowing the building to fall into a state of disrepair and indeed, danger.
http://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-04-16/how-did-paris-notre-dame-fall-into-such-disrepair

11 Churches in Paris were set ablaze over 9 days, I read somewhere.
Then you have all the bombings in Sri Lanka, and it looks like someone wants to start a holy war.

Why bother rebuilding, you've gone and let all the Muslims in;
Let them rebuild them when they turn them into Mosques.

I told you all a few years back the country was a write-off;
Write-off means write-off.

Y'all better start taking a good look around because all western democracies are headed down the same path.

- That includes OURS -

You can thank the PC crowd and liberalism...

Oh and don't forget the stupid UN agendas with their Open Borders Migrant Compact, and other anti-sovereign agendas.
Anyone might start thinking these wars were just the smaller plan;
The bigger plan was sending waves of migrants to destroy everyone else's countries.

Armchair Critic,
One could be forgiven to think the UN was Muslim !