"The self-defense is now the law. Salvini: "Beautiful day for the Italians"
The Senate definitively approves the design on legitimate defense. The League celebrates: "Finally it is really legitimate". The Anm on the barricades: "Less guarantees for all"

Andrea Indini -Thu, 03/28/2019 - 15:47

From today the legitimate defense will always be presumed. With 201 votes in favor, 38 against and six abstentions ( video ) the Senate has, in fact, approved the reform that, modifying the paragraph two of the article 52 of the penal code, widens the meshes in order to use "a legitimately held weapon or other suitable means " for the defense of " one's own or others 'safety " or of one's own or others' property" .
http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politica/legittima-difesa-ora-legge-salvini-bellissimo-giorno-1670364.html
(a 'Translate this page' translation).

In Australia, the advice is to comply with home invaders demands.

In Australia, the advice is to comply with home invaders demands
is Mise,
perhaps we should organise an invasion of Parliament Hose ? Could be the fastest way to restore order in the country !

In defence of Australian English, I decry the 'defenSe’ spelling.

In Australian law, self-defence is a 'legal defence’ if someone kills or maims another person who is threatening them.

Obviously, this has to be determined by the courts after the fact. Sans eyewitnesses, you cannot expect that your claim that someone broke into your house or raised fears for your safety, so you took him out with your 20 gauge flintlock that you usually use for hares and rabbits, to be automatically accepted. You might do, of course, and that's why you can expect to face an enquiry.

Govts could start changing the system by making Legal Aid available to victims also !

Is Mise,
Thank you for raising this matter. I have given this matter some thought of recent times. I now question my ability to give any measure of protection to myself and others, and my property, in the event of say a home invasion, using a weapon such as a cricket bat. My age weakening means I would need a firearm. Perhaps it was a wrong move on my part to give away my firearms when I decided to give up hunting. I was even thinking of just letting my gun licence expire.

I may be wrong but home invasions appear to be increasing and one can readily see the advantages for the criminal, as their actions are out of public view and far less likely to be witnessed.

Dear HenryL,

I'm not sure where you live but in Victoria the statistics are showing a pretty steady decline.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/state/vic/2018/06/14/victorian-crime-statistics-home-invasions/

One of the reasons that initially drove an increase was better prevention measures against hot wiring cars. This meant it became worth the risk for some to break in and attempt to steal the keys. This normally meant the owner was at home. In Victoria there does not need to have been any interaction between the owner and the thief for it to be called an aggravated burglary.

"The offence of burglary is aggravated if the person has with him or her a firearm, imitation firearm, offensive weapon, explosive or imitation explosive. Aggravated burglary also occurs if, at the time of entering the building, someone else was present and the offender knew, or was reckless as to the fact."
http://www.sentencingcouncil.vic.gov.au/publications/sentencing-snapshots/211-aggravated-burglary-higher-courts-victoria

From the same link you will see that in 2012-13 of the 127 cases about a third of those convicted of this offence were given non-custodial sentences, but by 2016-17 only one of the 92 cases resulted in no jail time.

So rather than Is Mise's vision of a bunch of people advanced in years fearfully sitting behind their front doors waiting to blow away the neighbour's blind drunk teenager who got his houses mixed up, I'm happy for the police and courts to be allowed to do their job.

I think people should be thinking about the likelihood of most people ever being assaulted or robbed; pretty low, I would have thought. Sensible behaviour and good locks are the best means of self-defence. I had and used firearms from the time I was 15 until about 20 years ago. In that time, I never had reason to use guns for anything but game and targets. In the past 20 years, disarmed, I have still not needed even a stick to defend myself physically. Some people seem to live in an imaginary world where everyone else is out to get them.

I'm unaware of what the various Statutes are in each State when it comes to self-defence? But I understand, whatever the circumstances are, if you use force against another person, to protect your property; other people on your property; or yourself; and that individual dies, you will be required to appear before the Coroner's Court.

There, to be examined by the Coroner, or counsel assisting the Coroner, as to what precisely happened, to cause that death, and whether there are any material facts that exist, that might show excessive force was employed?

Australia's type of jurisprudence, like Great Britain's, always places the protection of human life, at the very top of the tree. Accordingly, irrespective of the circumstances, a Coronial Inquiry will dig around, quite profoundly indeed, to ensure there was no other option available, other than to resort to the use of deadly force, in the circumstances.

There goes Steele again, the very amateur psychologist, delving into peoples' brains and airing his views on what people think.

I posted this item to highlight the fact that the Australian Governments don't care two hoots about peoples' welfare in comparison to some other countries.
Forget about firearms, Australians are not allowed to possess anything for the purpose of self-defence, not even a cricket bat.

Hi. there IS MISE...

Sadly my friend you're completely correct, as the law stands!

SR,
Perhaps you should take any stats from the Victorian government with a big grain of salt given their track record on truthful statements. Last I heard they were still denying that there were African youth gangs at large, yet all of Melbourne knew better and the media recorded them. Then there was a female police commissioner that was caught out telling porkies about crime stats.

So I will go with my gut feeling that crimes like home invasions are increasing and citizens need to strongly consider some sort of home protection. For me a large caliber, high velocity rifle would put the odds in my favour against a machette

"Forget about firearms, Australians are not allowed to possess anything for the purpose of self-defence, not even a cricket bat."

If you got caught with a cricket bat and said it was for the purpose of self defense, you'd probably get charged for it being a weapon.

This is unrelated but in the same category 'But not in Australia...'
Australia: Abusers Not Welcome
http://youtu.be/Z8ahx-I1Ieo

Skip to 17:42 for the segment mentioned above.

We need to find a way to make stupidity an indictable offence after all, it is stupidity that gives people a poor mentality & makes them do the wrong thing & hurt others !
TV & Media don't do anything to improve the situation either by disregarding the important issues & feasting on the frivolous !

Dear HenryL,

Yup that's the spirit, never let a fact get in the way of a 'gut feeling' no doubt driven by sensationalising media.

Dear Is Mise,

Yeh right. Mate we all know this is about your gun fetish and that the Italian laws are all about profits for the gun industry. Through heavy lobbying they got gun laws stripped which immediately saw a 15% jump in gun permits in the first year. Now in order to achieve further penetration into people's homes they have pushed for eased laws around their use in the case of trespass.

So now if a couple of teenagers break into a blokes orchard to grab some apples they can legitimately be blown away even if they are not armed nor have engaged the owner in any fashion. All the owner has to prove is that he 'perceived' them as a threat.

Well I know the thought of gun manufacturers increasing profits must excite the hell out of you it doesn't do a thing for me.

There is an increase of knife related murders everywhere, yet I still see them for sale in Supermarkets.

Steele,

Are you through reading "Psychology or Beginners" yet?

Issy, SR is still trying to get his head around the fact that anyone would dare question his opinions, because of his 'superiority' over us mere mortals.
The thing that no-one seems to grasp is that if someone is not bent on doing harm or stealing from another, then there is no reason to harm the intruder.
If the intruder is harmed then the law will decide the outcome, otherwise Henry L has the blessing of all us older, and fed up, folks.
The fools who are quick to blame guns on every gun related story, never consider ALL the facts.
If the baddies went around sporting guns the police would jump on them so fast.
We are forever seeing news of someone being stopped and searched and amongst the drugs and the cash, they also found a gun or guns.
So it is not true that if we start hiding guns under the bed that the baddies will start appearing with guns, to 'level the playing field'.
We had the exact same incident happen here in Perth a few years ago.
Two scumbags broke into an old couples home, so the old man grabbed his shotgun and retreated into the master bedroom to protect his sick bedridden wife.
Upon approaching the bedroom door he warned them he had a gun and kept telling them to leave.
It all ended very well, in that he removed another piece of sh!t from society, making it a little safer for all, and managed to protect himself and his wife, which is the ultimate goal.
The idiot/stupid cops then charged him with, who cares, only to find the public really got up the cops and they had to be brought back into reality.
The charges were dropped.
So the moral of the story is, I hope when SR gets old, someone attacks him and whether he would reach for a gun if he knew that just by producing it would send the scum scurrying.
SR's attitude is not one of a do-gooder, just one of a righteous know-it-all.

Hi there INDIVIDUAL...

Indeed, you are so right; edged weapons are being carried by many of our youth as a form of protection and to intimidate others. London in the UK is facing an enormous increase in knife crimes, including many murders, malicious woundings, and holdups. All commissioned at the point of a knife. There's no doubt, we here in Australia will soon be facing the same threat, with the availability of edged weapons of all varieties and types readily available on the open market!

There an old saying among coppers - '...you take a gun to a knife fight...'?

Steele,

"Well I know the thought of gun manufacturers increasing profits must excite the hell out of you it doesn't do a thing for me."

It doesn't excite me either, I guess that you, like me, don't have any shares.
I'm glad though that the industry is looking up, the Italians make some fine firearms.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/guns-rifles.asp/l_en/partenza_0/idl_2/rifles/rifles.html
http://www.ubertireplicas.com/
http://www.pietta.us/products/index.html

Sorry for the typo in a previous post, should have been "Psychology for Beginners", hope you weren't confused.