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The Forum > General Discussion > Can Australia ever be self-reliant for national defence?

Can Australia ever be self-reliant for national defence?

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Communicat,

You've hit the nail on the head, foreign aid is the answer, especially to those close enough to pose a threat.

Take Indonesia, we give them aid for ,say, food and this saves them spending on that commodity so the have more money to update their air force (or whatever).

This makes us much safer. Bravo.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 31 July 2007 8:37:42 AM
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Ise, I also consider myself an amateur historian on matters of Australian military historian and I would like you to provide some evidence of your assertion. Shortages of modern military equipment for the AIF are well documented. Our naval force structure was designed to fulfill a particular niche in the Royal Navies battle plans. Our army was split between two conflicting groups with little regard for practicalities. We allowed ourselves to be seduced by the Empire Air Training Scheme which took our best and brightest and scattered them throughout the RAF, making them impossible to retrieve as cohesive units.

Lets look at technology. The AIF went into battle in north Africa substantially short of trucks, bren gun carriers, machine guns and anti tank guns etc. Those they did have were stripped from home service units leaving them without much at all. The lack of transport aircraft in New Guinea exacerbated the crisis of supply on the Kokoda track.

As an amateur historian I am surprised that anyone could claim Australia was prepared without providing any evidence.

As for your comments on foreign aid, I totally agree. The wishful thinkers out there assume that the world is filled with soft lefties like them who only want world peace and puppies. They don’t understand that some people out there hate us and giving them money isn’t going to change that. Especially regimes who already sell their people short in order to attain military strength.

Foreign aid should be a hand up to countries that have shown an intention to improve the lives of their citizens, not a hand out which just makes things worse. Handouts to many nations in our region are more likely to be returned as bullets
Posted by Paul.L, Tuesday, 31 July 2007 11:29:35 AM
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Nothing about history, especially the complexity of WWII should ever be expressed as "beyond a shadow of a doubt."

Some other events which were also relevant in avoiding a Japanese invasion of Oz - probably more so than anything done in Australia, include:

The Battle of Britain - Had Britain failed to win that 'touch and go' conflict, the loss of all British and Commonwealth possessions in the Pacific would have been a forgone conclusion, and indeed it is likely the US would have stayed out of any ensuing conflict had the British not shown some pluck.

Battle of Midway - This naval battle, whilst not remotely in our region was a very significant battle fought by the Americans, and was important from Australia's point of view primarily because it made the following victory possible.

Battle of the Coral Sea - This battle, also fought almost entirely by the US (though there were relatively small Australian naval/air forces involved) was directly crucial because it prevented Japan from gaining control of the seas off QLD and allowed the maintenance of supplies to Australian land forces in New Guinea.

War in China - The strain and drain of the long (1937 - 1945) and very very bloody war in China, probably more than anything else, left Japan, particularly its army, without the forces to fulfill all the adventures which it's naval leaders dreamt of (including the invasion and occupation of Australia).

Australia was a small player in a very big 'game' and quite naturally was dependant on other, 'bigger players,' particularly the US. We never had any other choice and there is no shame in that. In that sense it is a nonsense to point to our preparation as what saved us.

(continued)
Posted by Kalin1, Tuesday, 31 July 2007 12:45:20 PM
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That so many in Australia deny the important role that the US and Britain played in in protecting Australia in WWII seems shameful to me. A great many Americans were killed in the battle of the Coral sea which in military terms was a very risky engagement and was done largely to prevent the isolation of Australia. Britains own efforts at protecting Australia and others from the Japanese, while futile, cost many British lives and should also not be forgotten or belittled - they had their hands full after all!

Whilst the US and Britain had their own reasons to want to prevent Japanese control of this region, the price they paid and the benefits Australia received for those sacrifices should not be treated lightly by Australians today. Australia exists today in no small part, by the blood of these other nations. Claiming we did it all ourselves is an ungrateful slight to their sacrifice.

I'm very proud to be Australian, but it shames me when Australians are too proud to give our friends due credit.
Posted by Kalin1, Tuesday, 31 July 2007 12:46:42 PM
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totally agree on all counts
Posted by Paul.L, Tuesday, 31 July 2007 1:05:46 PM
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Paul.I.

The evidence is all there, in the Military Museums etc and in the handbook: GUN, Machine, Maxim, (Ger) Convd. Mk IV'

That is the evidence for un-prepardness.
Go back and read my sarcasm laden post again.

Only a country in desperation would need to take neglected war trophies from 20+ years before,and convert them to our ammunition.
I have not only seen examples of these but in the 1960s did a lot of firing of one.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 31 July 2007 5:27:01 PM
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