TRTL said:
"As for the argument that there are already illegal firearms out there, of course there are.

But where are the examples of these firearms being used against innocent people hmm?

Did the brisbane rapist use a gun? No.
Did the man who raped that old lady have a gun? No."

So TRTL you seem to be saying that illegal guns are not the problem you are interested in. Would it be fair to say you care about 'proliferation' of guns to ordinary people, but not illegal guns owned by criminals?

I think the issue is more black and white than you make it out to be. I'm simply against people being shot, criminal or otherwise.

I care about the proliferation of guns in general - and I reject the notion that there are more out there since the laws came into place.

Whilst I can concede that the numbers of guns trafficked amongst the criminal set haven't decreased significantly, I don't believe they've increasing either.

And logically, when the innocent people start getting more guns, then the criminals are going to decide it's necessary to use guns against them. And I dare say the criminals will be better at it.

You state: "Self-defense cases are relatively few in number, but are sufficient to disprove the blanket opinion that 'No Australian needs a gun for self-defense'. It seems a more provable claim is that:

'A person who claims that no Australian needs a gun for self defense is not telling the truth."

That is fair enough.

Would it also be fair to say that as the number of firearms in the community increases, so too do the number of gun-related deaths?

TurnRightThenLeft wrote 'when the innocent people start getting more guns, then the criminals are going to decide it's necessary to use guns against them. And I dare say the criminals will be better at it.'

Not too sure about that. Do criminals practise at the range every weekend? I and my fellow club members do so and there are quite a few dead-eye shots amongst us.

Maybe we should have a criminal-club competition.

Jps1488
Good Idea.
Turnrightleft
I read all the above posts and I note you were the first to take a personal swipe at the paleif poster by saying= If you are insecure you feel you need to have a gun to defend yourself etc.
Then you seem to have got all offended when the writer replied on a personal note[ as was directed to pale.
Seems fair to me .
Now if you are scared of Guns or your dislike Guns and dont want one in your house to protect your family that IS your right.
Same as If I or pale or anybody else DOES want one to protect THEIR family that ought to be THEIR right.
PS Has it ever occured to you that rapist in Brisbane might not be so keen IF he THOUGHT some of his protential victims MIGHT be armed?
AND What about our country??
You dont in all honesty think we have enough soldiers to protect Australia
Do You?
So what are you suggesting happens when we are attacked one day?
Not one of our young men or women will KNOW how to defend themselves OR Australia.
How clever is that?

Just had a quick opportunity to drop in and see how things had progressed.

Stone the bloody crows!

ChrisPer, do some of these posts come from your lot?
I scrach me head in wonder!

To Turn Right Then Left.
Let's you and me sit back and watch all the heroes rush out and blast the (enemy?) to pieces shall we?
Then we'll grab a couple of cheapies left over from the buyback scheme, (must still be a couple out there somewhere), clean out the dregs, and collect all the medals.
Whatdaya say?

Hey JSP1488. It's me again. You still shootin from the hip or what?