When I was a kid, old people would talk about 'wicked waste’: the misuse of money, resources, time etc. - anything that didn't need to happen. There was a whiff of 'sin’ or 'evil’ about waste for people who had survived the Great Depression.

The wasteful indulgence of the United Nations (using other people's money) would have had the oldies spinning in their graves.

Over 23,000 people, including UN staff, specialised agencies, intergovernmental organisations, and non-governmental parasites had to be transported, housed and fed, at the latest climate gabfest in Katowice, Poland, with the intent of handing over $US100 billion per year to Third World basket cases.

On top of those were the official delegates from various countries. While Australia sent 30 delegates at OUR EXPENSE, take a look at the number of delegates sent by basket case countries, also at OUR EXPENSE and that of other countries handing out money to the UN.

Guinea 406 delegates.
Congo. 237 delegates.
Ivory Coast 208 delegates
Sudan 172
Senegal 171
Benin 139
Chad 60
Fiji 57

Those who sent fewer than Australia for a 12 day holiday, but whose tabs were also picked up by 'rich’ countries ripped off by the UN: Tonga, Vanuatu, Tuvulu, Timor. PNG, Nauru sent 26, 23, 21, 21, 19 and 14 respectively. Still too many for their size.

Africans were also getting almost $200 per day in cash for 'subsistence’.

It was estimated 55,000 tonnes of CO2 was emitted via this conference. That doesn't include the emissions from private jet aircraft. Not bad for people who think that the rest of us have to cut back on emissions. (Source: Catallaxy Files; Quadrant Online; Sydney Morning Herald).

Hi there TTBN...Gee you speak a whole lot of common sense my friend, I'm very sorry I ever doubted you in the past!

went for a swim this morning. sure wish this heat hiding in the ocean would show up. thanks ttbn the whole gw religion can't see their own hypocrisy.

o sung wu,

Nice of of you to say so, although I'm just reporting facts.

runner,

It's just reached the promised forecast of 41 degrees here in Adelaide. Nothing unusual here, of course, and totally beyond the control of man. No swimming for me; just watching the Indians making fools of us in the Third Test.

Hi (again & finally) TTBN...I reckon TTBN you're the great hope of 'genuine conservatism' on OLO & The Forum. And besides you reporting the facts, there's always the truth that's contained therein. Stay ""cool"" you and our good mate RUNNER.

Dear me Ttbn telling the truth !
That will get you banned in some places.
I mentioned to a relative on Xmas day that the ice in Antarctica and
Greenland has been increasing and she went berserk.
She just could not stand to hear such a thing.
As someone said AGW is the new religion for those who are not religious.

yeah ttbn watched a little of the cricket but wickets were to slow. Having a laugh watching abc24 manifesting fear in people because its hot this time of year. Strangely enough they have to scan the country to report on places like marblebar as if its never been hot their before. Talk about snowflakes. They just have to complete the narrative no matter how much the facts defy their gw religion. Also had a family member wanting to stone me for heresy when I challenged him on his gw faith. You know one of these guys who flies the globe.

Dear Bazz,

You wrote;

“Dear me Ttbn telling the truth! That will get you banned in some places.”

Truth of what? What a non-story.

Africa as a continent contains nearly 1.3 billion people. The fact that Australia sent only 30 people this time as opposed to the 200 under Rudd is just indicative of our lack of commitment to the issue, something that deeply shames many thinking Australians. But that still represents more than 1 delegate per million people. There were some countries like Lybia who sent only 3 delegates or 1 per 2,000,000. Or Algeria with 22 delegates for 41 million people. African countries well under Australia's ratio. The miserly group sent from our climate change denying government is hardly a yardstick against which countries who believe in the science.

It is Africa which will be pivotal to mitigating climate predictions. If its people were to attain Australian figures of fossil fuel use per capita then this thing is going to be totally irretrievable. Lots of these countries are ill equipped to deal with climate change.

Many of those countries delegations are made up of people from NGOs, quite a number of them are Western based.

For you lot of selfish, miserable pissants to be banging your gums over this just shows how shallow and inane you really are.

Just stop, you are embarrassing yourselves.

Bazz,

The Left does not understand what we are talking about. There is no point in arguing with them; they are all emotion and no logic. Most of them are too young to have a clue what their wacko politics have lead to in the past.

"Africans were also getting almost $200 per day in cash for 'subsistence’."

I heard Bolton told Africa to choose between the US and China.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/bolton-threatens-to-force-africa-to-choose-between-the-us-and-china/5663943

The whole problem with this world is this overriding gang mentality.

As for the UN BS, there's no other way to look at this other than 'wholesale theft'.
Stealing the cash from my wallet to pay for the theft of my entire country.

How freaking dumb are we?
The average IQ in Australia must now be about 50.

- We have the combined intelligence of a fully-loaded used nappy -

Must be about time for New Years so we can all get drunk and be merry and look the other way.

'Look the other way'
My mistake; that's what sport is for.

Speaking on the Left's inability to understand history or learn from it, before the Vietnam war, Ayn Rand wrote:

“It has been reported in the press many times that the issue of pollution is to be the next big crusade of the New Left activists, after the war in Vietnam peters out. And just as peace was not their goal or motive in that crusade, so clean air is not their goal or motive in this one.”

Just as the rioters’ aim was not peace, but Communist victory and a general demonstrating of their hatred of the West, the Leftist UN and its useful idiots are not interested in climate, but in the transfer of Western funds to Third World dysfunctional states.

The IPCC has made no bones about this intention, even stating it publicly. The useful idiots seem to have missed that. So, there is no point in arguing. The only people who can put things right are voters who are generally not ideologues. But, even there, voters can no longer be trusted to penalise political parties set on a destructive path. There is too much apathy.

It seems then, that we will have to hit rock bottom before the pendulum swings. And that process could we'll begin with the election of a Shorten Green/Labor government next year.

Dear AC,

You wrote;

“As for the UN BS, there's no other way to look at this other than 'wholesale theft'. Stealing the cash from my wallet to pay for the theft of my entire country.”

What on earth are you gibbering about? Australia is well behind most Western nations on how much aid we give related to our GDP. We are considered pretty tight arsed by many first world nations who commit far more. Yet here you are bleating on about your personal cash being stolen from your personal wallet? Just how thick can you lot really be?

Actually belay that, you have already answered the question;

“How freaking dumb are we? The average IQ in Australia must now be about 50.”

Well for your bunch I think that would be flattering.

How about looking at the UN brokered peace deal in Yemen. Who else was going to do it? The US? Well no they were busy selling weapons to increase the misery.

The UN have saved more lives from conflict and disease than any other organisation in the world. They deserve our continued support not daily condemnation from a bunch of sad old farts with nothing better to do over Christmas.

Hey SteeleRedux,

"What on earth are you gibbering about? Australia is well behind most Western nations on how much aid we give related to our GDP."

I hate all that economics type 'Percentage to GDP' crap.
(But one day I'll take the time to learn it.)

Why don't you just talk COLD HARD DOLLARS instead?
This is a currency people can actually comprehend.
Percentage to GDP is just a way of hiding the truth from the people.

- First start here -
http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

Why don't you just sit there have a cuppa and watch it clock up another million or two.

Now how about you tell me 'in dollars' how much we spend on aid?
Maybe you can find the answer here, it seemed like an effort to me.

http://dfat.gov.au/aid/where-we-give-aid/Pages/where-we-give-aid.aspx
http://dfat.gov.au/about-us/corporate/portfolio-budget-statements/Documents/2018-19-australian-aid-budget-summary.pdf

- Why not just show me the bloody numbers -

About the Direct Aid Program

The Direct Aid Program is designed to provide financial assistance to eligible groups or organisations undertaking suitable small scale development projects. Projects can be in any sector (e.g. community health, education, small scale infrastructure, sanitation, rural development, environmental development, gender equality, conferences and training activities, and cultural and sporting activities) but must aim to alleviate basic humanitarian hardships, have a developmental outcome and be implemented within a relatively short period of time. In certain cases, consideration may be given to contributions to disaster relief operations. Guidelines to the Direct Aid Program can be found on the following website:
http://dfat.gov.au/people-to-people/direct-aid-program/Pages/direct-aid-program.aspx.

It is imperative that projects have defined and realistic objectives and clear outcomes. DAP grants are awarded to a maximum of AUD 60,000 (approximately USD 44,560 at time of publishing). However, applicants are encouraged to apply for funding in the range of AUD 5,000 (USD 3,715) to AUD 30,000 (USD 22,280 at time of publishing). Projects must be self-sustaining and recurrent/ongoing costs will not be supported (e.g. salaries/rental/utility costs, micro credit schemes or any other project that involves return of money, etc).

So basically it's just 'free cash' to anyone in Africa who applies.
Keep your eye on that debt clock.

My IQ statement stands...

So we give a $60,000 grant for gender equality as 'aid'? LOL

What are you saying we're not doing enough and we should make it 100k grant for gender equality?

AC,

As I said to Bazz, the Left doesn't understand what we say. Columnist, Tim Blair, says of them: “... leftists basically hear and see the same words as normal people, but understand them in altogether different, less sensible ways.”

“Logical flaws and contradictions are evident in just about every leftist proclamation”.

“They struggle … with basic comprehension ….”.

Blair refers to a 2009 academic study that found that leftists “don’t understand conservatives the way conservatives understand progressives.” And they get angry at what they don't understand.

This angry misunderstanding is all too evident here in people like SteeleRedux and a couple of other extreme Leftists

Dear AC,

You wrote;

“Percentage to GDP is just a way of hiding the truth from the people.”

No it isn't mate, it is the acceptance of the blindingly obvious fact that what represents the price of a takeaway coffee to the average Australian is the equivalent of a days wages in many other countries.

Our aid budget is well less than a cup of coffee per week for the average Australian yet it makes such dramatic differences to so many people overseas.

I for one wouldn't mind it going to the equivalent of a cup of coffee a week even if miserable tightarses like you think it will bring the bloody world down around our heads. We are a rich country albeit one with a growing wealth disparity. We should be able to stump up without having to put up with the likes of you calling it theft.

Yes your IQ assessment of those in your cohort certainly stands, very dismal.

Hey ttbn,

"... leftists basically hear and see the same words as normal people, but understand them in altogether different, less sensible ways."

"Logical flaws and contradictions are evident in just about every leftist proclamation".

Yeah it's strange that, I do kind of get what you mean.

"don’t understand conservatives the way conservatives understand progressives"

I definitely feel like they don't see themselves in the way that we see them;
And I also feel as if some think conservatives are a stereotype of 'KKK racists that prey on raping women and practicing mysogyny'; or something...

But I do try to put myself in the lefts shoes and look at whether their is any merit at all in their arguments by looking at the pro's and con's of every issue -
Say for example women are going on about some issue with men;
I'll look at:
1/ If there is any merit to the core issue or whether its completely baseless.
2/ Or if their is merit to the core issue how much they've twisted or blown it all out of proportion.

With SteeleRedux,
I was kind of unfair on him, he did make a fair point in regards to Yemen and I didn't acknowledge it;
And I didn't admit that I was wrong and that he was right when I should've;
being that sometimes the UN is good and that my statement he quoted was unreasonable.

- But I still hate all this globalist crap and yes I DO have a bias towards it -

And also he does make some logical arguments that have merit.

And I don't hold any grudges towards others on the forum nor wish to;
I may argue and disagree and sometimes even ridicule and humiliate, but I hope nobody ever really takes the things I say personally.

Giving money to the UN is equivalent to burning it in a hole. Most of the money is wasted on giving tin pot dictators a voice and maybe 5c on the dollar gets to where it is needed.

Australia is one of the most generous donor countries in the world, and the only reason Krudd wanted to boost the donations was to buy votes to get a seat on the security council.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You wrote;

“Most of the money is wasted on giving tin pot dictators a voice and maybe 5c on the dollar gets to where it is needed.”

No it doesn't. UN refugee camps require billions of dollars to operate. Their work is extraordinary. As is their efforts on disease control. It was the WHO, an arm of the UN which delivered things like the eradication of smallpox. Think of all the lives that have been spared because of that effort.

The UN is a credit to those saner people of the world who understand its worth. While not without its faults it continues to do amazing work which churlish cranks like yourself constantly attempt to dismiss.

According to this website Australia is ranked 14 worldwide- though we should be much lower on the list because we should be helping Australians with our money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors

Also probably need to consider the number of immigrants to get a better idea. And the cost of looking after our own indigenous community something that many of the countries in front of Australia don't need to consider.

Every culture is responsible for themselves- we shouldn't aspire to be the highest donor- perhaps there is some value in supporting world stability- but not through the corrupt UN. I hope that countries will eventually see that giving good money for bad behavior is suicidal

Dear Canem Malum,

Come on mate, at least get your figures right. Australia is 16th both on total amounts given and percentage of Gross National Income.

Secondly the bulk of Australia's aid goes into our region to the north, particularly the South Pacific in order “to protect our interests” which can be translated into 'keeping China's influence at bay'.

So you want us to pull all that funding do you?

I certainly agree we could be investing more resources into Aboriginal disadvantage, but we are apparently flush enough with funds so as to be able to give huge corporate tax cuts to Liberal Party donors.

So basically all you are putting up is a very bright red herring. Like to try again?

I sorted by the per capita column on the site and counted from the top and got 14.

Australia is a much smaller economy than China we are 1/50th in terms of population. Speaking of Red Herrings (especially from the Communists)- There are better ways of negating China (a Communist state friendly to Australian Communists) such as by a trade war with the US which the US seems perhaps likely to win. The balance of trade is currently in China's favour. "No money no fight-y".

Patrick Deneen says that if a growth economy stopped then he suspects Liberalism would collapse- because Liberalism is predicated on the idea that everyone can get rich. One of the ways the US public see themselves as getting richer is cheap consumer goods from China- this is perhaps based on an unsustainable balance of trade (X= Exports-Imports< 0). This balance of trade is what China probably uses to fund its influence north of Australia- they use the export trade to fund their export trade growth- a sustainable Chinese business model created by the unsustainable US business model.

Deneen- IMO one of the bright sparks in contemporary Universities- suggests that the Liberal model will need to change to a more responsible Conservative model- perhaps due to the finite nature of the planet.

Fascinating.

Dear Canem Malum,

You wrote;

“I sorted by the per capita column on the site and counted from the top and got 14.”

Of course you did. You aren't very good at this are you. Below are the countries from your link listed by order of per capita contributions.

1. Norway $812.58
2. Qatar $757.80
3. Sweden $701.10
4. Luxembourg $609.48
5. UAE $467.00
6. Denmark $447.05
7. Switzerland $421.37
8. Netherlands $338.38
9. UK $284.85
10. Finland $234.13
11. Germany $214.73
12. Belgium $167.20
13. Ireland $151.20
14. Austria $137.59
15. France $137.35
16. Australia $129.92

Here is a little heads up mate. It is fine to make a mistake, especially via omission, I've done it myself plenty of times. But if you are told you are wrong by another poster you really should be prepared to scroll down just a fraction to see what they might be on about. Otherwise you hand them free rein to make of your mistake what they will, perhaps to question why you would leave out only Muslims countries from your list.

However I am going to assume your mistake was genuine and that you will make every attempt to do better in the future.

Donor Total development aid Development aid per capita % of GNI
Norway $4.28 billion $812.58 1.14
Sweden $7.09 billion $701.10 1.36
Luxembourg $0.36 billion $609.48 0.61
Denmark $2.57 billion $447.05 0.9
Switzerland $3.54 billion $421.37 0.68
Netherlands $5.81 billion $338.38 0.76
United Kingdom $18.70 billion $284.85 0.67
Finland $1.29 billion $234.13 0.55
Germany $17.78 billion $214.73 0.49
Belgium $1.89 billion $167.20 0.4
Ireland $0.72 billion $151.2 0.22
Austria $1.21 billion $137.59 0.31
France $9.23 billion $137.35 0.36
Australia $3.22 billion $129.92 0.26

SteelRedux- Not sure where you got the information from but it's irrelevant to me who is correct. Thanks for your feedback.

Dear Canem Malum,

Come on young fella lift your game. I got it from your link mate.

The top list is just for the OECD's Development Assistance Committee members. If you scroll down as I indicated you will find a list of non-DAC countries.

And for you to say it is irrelevant who is correct is disappointing but I will keep it in mind when you next quote statistics on this forum.

Whatever Australia gives of doesn't give is irrelevant to the trickery and waste of the United Nations. We should have nothing to do with it at all. No money. No country-shopping 'refugees'. The UN was a real hit in Rwanda, wasn't it! It is totally useless and uncessary, with nothing more to it than aspirations to world government.

SR,

For all the many $bns given to the UN, only a tiny fraction makes it to any refugee camp. It also supports many refugees that have never fled from any fighting and lines the pockets of those that have turned the camps into businesses.

Only a rampant simpleton such as yourself would think that virtue is determined by the $ value of donations to these corrupt organisations.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You wrote;

“For all the many $bns given to the UN, only a tiny fraction makes it to any refugee camp”

That is absolute rubbish.

Well you have made the claim now back it up and prove it isn't some unsubstantiated, vapid right whinge talking point.

Financial aid is like global taxes paid by governments instead of citizens.

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

I was given this account by an Oz Veteran of the failed Rwandan campaign that TTBN alluded too. We were in a 'Group' at the Repat. Hospital structured for Veterans diagnosed with PTSD. This particular bloke was with the Oz Army, the rest of us were Vietnam/Malaysian Veterans.

He'd never fired a shot in anger? He went on to describe Rwanda. He and a couple of platoons were 'standing easy', less the 50 - 60 yards from a couple of thousand (I've forgotten the names of the waring factions) men women and many many children. The people were all just milling around, cooking talking singing minding their own business, and it was daytime.

All of a sudden a large group of men emerged from the nearby scrub and without any warning, proceeded to literally butcher the men, women, & children (without distinction) with machetes and long knives in a frenzied attack on their victims. Naturally the Aussies were 'locked & loaded', and within minutes could've nullified the attack. However the order to 'fire' never came. Apparently the Aussies and other foreign peacekeepers, could only fire in instances of self-defence - orders from the UN.

This bloke was literally sobbing as he told us how the members of his platoon felt. He described the area as literally awash with blood. The attackers were like maniacs screaming and 'wild-eyed' like primitive, drunken, bloodlust natives.

Since that day he's never had an uninterrupted nights sleep. He said being well armed, yet not being able to do something, was unimaginable...the screams of literally, hundreds & hundreds, will resonate in his psyche for the rest of his life. He said, you're OK you could retaliate when you had a 'contact'. We never had a contact, we were part of it! Only as observers of mass murder nothing more. Someone in a far off country, in a UN office, were calling the shots!

Dear o sung wu,

Yes Rwanda was insanity. The massacre your soldier would be referring to was likely the Kibeho massacre in 1995.

This was essentially payback by the Tutsis for the original massacres done the previous year.

You write “All of a sudden a large group of men emerged from the nearby scrub and without any warning, proceeded to literally butcher the men, women, & children (without distinction) with machetes and long knives in a frenzied attack on their victims. Naturally the Aussies were 'locked & loaded', and within minutes could've nullified the attack.”

That was not quite the situation that is described here;

“Then, on April 22, 32 Australians witnessed a horror few can even imagine. Desperate to close down the camp, the RPF had opened fire. Over the course of the day, the Australians watched on, hands tied by the UN’s peacekeeping mandate, as the RPF unleashed machine gun fire and rocket propelled grenades on the captive refugees. All they could do was treat the injured.”

There were 600 Australian medical personnel deployed in various locations within Rwanda at the time with a rifle company for protection. And yes their mandate was very clear, force to be used only for self protection.

The only way they were able to operate was by maintaining neutrality. Had other countries been prepared to send appropriate resources and soldiers then they may have been able to react differently. However to have taken on the RPF then may well have seen many Australians lose their lives, especially once the word got out to other areas where they were deployed. These were not militias with machetes they were facing but fully armed soldiers.

There were many mistakes made, especially the tying of the hands of the UN by members of the Security Council, the US often being the biggest impediment.

This is a long read but worth it if you are interested;

http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/1999/1257

We can only hope some of the mistakes have been learnt.

Dear o sung wu,

Just realised I didn't furnish a link to the quote I used.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/australian-troops-remember-kibeho-massacre-in-rwanda/news-story/1c6be840029a30cb1be26b0f3b96242c

Hi (again) STEELEREDUX...

I apologise for any errors I may've made. I relied entirely on my own memory, and of course his memory, of those terrible events he had to witness, that precipitated his PTSD. He must have been among the 32 you mentioned.

Something that struck us, (the bulk of the group numbered eight of us including him, & it was monitored by a Psych nurse) all of us were Vietnam/Malaysian Vets, except for him. We all wondered how this bloke ended up in a PTSD Group, particularly as he was not someone involved in a declared war, yet he suffered with PTSD? It didn't take us long to realise why? Any and all contacts we'd had, were always dealt with, in the way we're trained.

These bloke, albeit ARA couldn't respond in the manner they were trained at all. They had to standby and witness these atrocities, while the UN apparently sat on their hands?

Hi STEELEREDUX...

I've just finished reading your extract thank you, and much of it rang true, especially the part where many Vietnam Vets considered Rwandan Veterans not to be true Veterans. Which of course is utter rubbish! I know which I'd prefer to face personally? Certainly not Rwanda.

Dear o sung wu,

It appears I was also incorrect when I said "their mandate was very clear, force to be used only for self protection". In the back of my mind I remembered the second UNAMIR into Rwanda which the Australians participated in did have stronger rules of engagement than the first.

So I've gone and looked it up and it appears the officer in charge could have ordered the men to fire under the UN directive but felt the risk to Australian personnel under his command was too great.

This is cited straight from the account on the Australian War Memorial website;

"In addition to the Australian troops, a company of Zambian peacekeepers was also in Kibeho when the massacre began. Under UNAMIR's mandate, the troops and peacekeepers could have intervened in the conflict but were seriously outnumbered by RPF and risked also being killed. Moreover, it would have been hard to fire without killing refugees. Hence, under the command of Lieutenant Steve Tilbrook, the Australian infantrymen did not open fire to defend the refugees - a situation the men found particularly distressing. A debriefing team was later sent to Rwanda to counsel the Australians who were present at the massacre. It was later argued that UN presence at Kibeho stopped the RPF from killing everyone in the camp and creating an even worse outcome."
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/U60680

In this case it appears to be more about the lack of support, particularly from other countries who didn't want to get involved, which meant the Australians and Zambian troops were unable to respond more forcefully to the violence.

Thanks STEELEREDUX...

In other words a real stuff up with the result of many unnecessary killings taking place. Thanks mate. If we were to examine every species on earth, we are the only group who harbour malice in our hearts.

Here's an idea for a new thread ttbn,

Australia should follow Israel and US and leave UNESCO;
- Not for the Israel / Palestinian issue, but for the damage their educational system and agenda's doing to our nation.

US Withdraws From UNESCO
http://youtu.be/gXTPpMw7ew8