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The Forum > General Discussion > Craig Kelly is he worth it?

Craig Kelly is he worth it?

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Believe it or not I think this government can still win the next election, or limit the damage
Limit the weekly even some times daily self inflicted wounds
Barnaby Joyce holding talks with Kelly, about joining the Nationals?
Was saving Craig Kelly worth the now open wound, if we get a run I would like to expand on what the LNP needs to do to present its self as fit to govern
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 11 December 2018 4:12:51 PM
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This thread is not to needle any one, some of my friends will cringe to see I think LNP could still win
This episode Kelly backed by Joyce and Abbott screams at me, my thought on two party,s fighting for ownership is true
What next
Well to turn this around, save the boat if not the crew
Look and see how many Liberal voters want the LIBERAL PART POLICY on clean energy, now Labors, passed
Then find a way to take climate action that mirrors even LIBERAL voters wishes
Stall privatization
Look at any deal Labor offers to send off shore detainees to other country,s
Relook at the true Pacific solution, the Malaysian idea again, to end forever boat arrivals'
Yes ruffled some feathers in that lot
But post two losses next year these will be the very policy,s the LNP adopts
PS watch learn think about the swings against Dutton Abbott Joyce and yes Kelly in the election
Another thing that needs looking at now, before the trauma of defeat
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 8:28:04 AM
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Deadly silence, I can hear myself breath in here
In a way the reluctance to talk of yet another own goal tells me why my thoughts are a dream
See the LNP is set in its self destruction, it wants to keep the bitter war within fired up
To keep voters at arms length,calamity just around the bend and full throttle seems the only idea they can come up with
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 11:59:52 AM
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Dear Belly,

What a shame that the Liberal Party members in Hughes
lost the opportunity to have their say after
Craig Kelly was able to avoid a preselection.

They're supposed to be a "broad church" - but the
reality appears to be totally different.

I don't agree with you that the party has a chance of
winning the next election. Not if they keep up their
current behaviour.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 3:02:51 PM
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Certainly good they got rid of tantrum throwers like Turnbull and that silly woman from Victoria who made up abuse cases. The sooner the Liberals go back to conservative roots the better. Still a lot of regressives among them.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 3:10:38 PM
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Foxy while I think Labor has won already I know we are basically doing much of that on the faults of the LNP
Truth is we do have good policy but most are just reversing bad policy they have
Runner G,day my view is the opposite of yours, with much conviction I think the Conservative side of the LNP is the reason they are down 45/55
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 3:56:52 PM
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runner,

Go sit on a cactus.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 5:09:54 PM
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Looks like another LNP politician may be in hot water.

** See the video, no way those two guys are giving a therapeutic massage **

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6485289/MP-Gareth-Ward-insists-called-massage-New-York-hotel-room-new-CCTV-emerges.html

Moment a Liberal Party MP gets into the lift of a New York hotel with two men and heads up to his room after calling an escort service - before 'they attempted to extort $1,000 from him'

An MP who rang an escort agency's number on the night he was subjected to blackmail insists he had simply wanted a massage in his New York hotel room.

New South Wales Liberal Gareth Ward was captured on CCTV in August last year getting into a lift on the 33rd floor of the Intercontinental in Manhattan with two men wearing caps and white T-shirts.

The state member for Kiama, on the south coast, told the New York Police Department the men had tried to extort $1,000 from him after the vision-impaired politician had asked them to leave his hotel room.

The footage showed him in the lift moments before he ran to a concierge desk to alert police of the blackmail attempt, after the men had walked with him to an ATM.

While that police report listed a phone call from the MP to an escort service number, Mr Ward said he had simply called that number for a massage.

'I'd been walking all day, sightseeing, it was self-funded,' the albino MP told Daily Mail Australia on Wednesday.

'I have in the past got massages where I've gone because that's what often people will do and there was nothing untoward about what I did.'

The parliamentary secretary, who hails from the Liberal Party's moderate faction, said the number he had called was linked to various non-sexual services and insisted he had not broken any laws in New York, where it is illegal to solicit an escort.

He argued he had asked them to leave after realising the men were not offering a therapeutic massage.

'That's what happened,' he said.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 13 December 2018 1:18:36 AM
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Runners view Foxy is worth the reading, he is the very reason his party is stalled
That post, like others highlights a seeming woman hatred, at best his party does not want more women
It too talks of more conservatives needed, while already conservatives by percentage out number Liberal voters who support or even want them
Right now is the time for Liberals to take their eyes off Labor and look at themselves
A car wreck can not be avoided if you are not in control of the car
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 13 December 2018 5:01:35 AM
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Another stupid decision from Morrison, this will turn people off the Liberals.

Parliamentarians & their staff will be protected from public hearings and findings of corruption in Morrison's CIC
Thursday, 13 December 2018
Scott Morrison's media release on his Commonwealth Integrity Commission is below.

The Attorney General's 21 page paper on the new bureaucracy is here:

http://www.ag.gov.au/Consultations/Documents/commonwealth-integrity-commission/cic-consultation-paper.pdf

The biggest question I have after reading those documents is "Why?".

Why are we creating this new body?

The CIC will have two divisions:

Law Enforcement Integrity
Public Sector Integrity
The Law Enforcement Integrity division already exists and it has real teeth. It's currently called the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity and it will simply move holus bolus into the new CIC.

The new bit, the Public Sector Integrity Division will cover parliamentarians, their staff and government departments.

And that new Division is an absolute toothless tiger.

It will not be permitted to hold public hearings.

It will not be permitted to make findings of corruption.

It will not be permitted to make any prima facie findings that criminal offences have been committed - in fact it won't be able to make findings of misconduct at all.

http://www.ag.gov.au/Consultations/Pages/commonwealth-integrity-commission.aspx
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 13 December 2018 12:28:08 PM
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Philip S my thought too, why not give us the full thing
Thought this thread may get Liberals to rebutte my words or say what changes they think are needed
Morrison is about to give a flimsy shadow policies Labor like in title only
But after the election and his loss, Liberals will be openly saying they should adopt changes much like the ones I have put forward here
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 13 December 2018 4:09:37 PM
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Hi Belly, you know I am unbiased. Firstly I'm going to do what half the forums 'Usual Suspects' do, and declare myself a swinging voter. Why not, it might fool some demented halfwit!

Next I'm going to give out the good oil as to what the Coalition can do to improve their chances at the next erection. Here's the drum; ScuMo, The Mad Monk and Dud Dutton, should get themselves well and truly plasted, I mean pissed, until they can't stand up. Then they should all get onto that grubby 'Sky Crappy Channel' with the regular loony live interviewers, and take it in turns at abusing those fools, each other, and most importantly the voters! Something like "I f'n hate babies...old farts...pregnant sheila's, and so on, and so on. To really convince the electorate they are worthy of their vote, at the end, they could do an all mighty up chuck on each other, the interviewers and the TV camera, all on live national television, terrific stuff, most effective on us swinging voters who haven't made up our minds yet! That would improve the Coalitions chances ten fold, cause what they are doing now is bloody awful!
Then Money Bags Malcolm could pop up, stone cold sober, in his best suit, smurky grin, and tell everyone, in a very jolly voice.."I TOLD YOU SO!"
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 13 December 2018 4:40:08 PM
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Belly Quote "why not give us the full thing" 21 pages good luck when you can only post 4 times here, so just for you I will give the link to the document again.

http://www.ag.gov.au/Consultations/Documents/commonwealth-integrity-commission/cic-consultation-paper.pdf

1
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 13 December 2018 6:38:38 PM
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PS not mastered links on this site, not sure if my interest in this subject and politics is ok
Am I to limit my amount of posts
Should I consider only a daily visit, such thoughts often [daily] enter my mind
And sure, my politics confront many on this site
Always have, see we do have a bias here
Craig Kelly, even true Liberals cringe at his name
[doing ok with using sentences?]
Morrison has shown his plan to win the election, once the strength of Sir Robert Menzies
Close to an election take the best of the other party,s policy,s, the ones they use against you
However ScoMo has put greaseproof paper over them and drawn a shaky copy, will voters fall for it?
You tell me
Posted by Belly, Friday, 14 December 2018 5:22:43 AM
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Belly Are you off your medication.

PS not mastered links on this site, not sure if my interest in this subject and politics is ok
Am I to limit my amount of posts
Should I consider only a daily visit, such thoughts often [daily] enter my mind
And sure, my politics confront many on this site
Always have, see we do have a bias here
Craig Kelly, even true Liberals cringe at his name
[doing ok with using sentences?]

You are not doing okay, are you taking lesson from NNN if so in the future I will just ignore anything that you say.
Posted by Philip S, Friday, 14 December 2018 7:16:54 AM
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From what I can see Craig Kelly is a Conservative rather than a Right Liberal- we need more of them.
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 14 December 2018 8:41:50 AM
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OPINION is that one of the words in OLO
Is that for every one
Can we address CM your view, is it, forget bias, not true that within the Liberal party if no other place, your view is reason they are at war
Right now conservatives are the problem within that party not the solution
Posted by Belly, Friday, 14 December 2018 10:31:56 AM
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Dear Belly,

There are many signs that the Australian Liberal
Party has entered a perilous period. It's facing
a loss of confidence and self-identity. The core
of the problem is that it has become lethargic and
passionless and has lost its sense of direction.
It has turned in on itself.

The party might recover - only if serious change
was a possibility. Hard choices have to be made for
its survival and far-reaching decisions about its
trajectory in Australian society has to be taken.
However, clearly nobody with any real influence
is listening at the present time.

We can only wait and see if this will change with
time.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 14 December 2018 3:01:45 PM
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Foxy wise and true, but they have zero chance of winning the next election
Some posters exist who can debate, even offer thoughts on what needs to be done
We rarely see them
It was my intention in several threads, to bring them out to debate
All I saw are those Conservatives who refuse to even agree there is another Liberal party in this one struggling to get out
Time will bring that debate on, after the lemming march has taken place
Posted by Belly, Friday, 14 December 2018 4:16:50 PM
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Dear Belly,

If the Liberal Party continues to support the
"old guard," like Craig Kelly, Kevin Andrews,
and Abbott and Co and not allow preselection
choices. Nothing is going to change. It's time
the Party woke up to what's killing them. These
die-hards have nowhere else to go, they're got
nothing to offer and are hanging on for dear life
taking the party down with them (where else would
they go?) The party badly needs some new blood.
Kick these blokes out. They're wrecking the party.
Perhaps the voters will do it for them at the
next election - where it will be too late to
salvage anything.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 14 December 2018 6:47:34 PM
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Belly- With respect the Liberal Party is a fairly pragmatic bunch. I have confidence they will be able to adapt to the needs of the Conservative vs Liberal sides. This has been simmering for a while. With this re-adjustment there will be some gain of new supporters and perhaps some loss of old ones.

All parties have different internal views. The Socially Liberal parties such as the Labor and Greens Parties seem to have many more factions, some of which are sometimes repressed. Once in a while these bubble to the surface.

"small l"- Liberals believe in the free market- "unseen hand"
"big L"- Conservatives believe that responsible use of boundaries allow the community to manage itself.

It's said that the "business parties" (Economic Liberals and Conservatives) around the world generally support small less complex government.

Conservatives want Australian's to be safe from those that want to destroy all boundaries.
Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 15 December 2018 2:20:12 AM
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Canem Malum with respect,the very real and troubling thing is there is a war within the LNP
Not just it parementry members but its branches
Maybe I am wrong, but you will need to prove it to me, the fight includes the voters who are Liberal
Wentworth, what do you make of it? was it only an expression of unhappiness with Turnbulls dumping
Or was it at least in part a small l revolt
Can you, from your point of view, assure me the party members and Australian voters want a true conservative Liberals
If you can explain the the current polling 45/55
Liberals who intend to vote Labor must be in that number, it could never be that high without them
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 15 December 2018 4:58:23 AM
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Dear Belly,

I think that all Australians want Australia to be
safe, especially from the divisiveness of the
"them" and "us" syndromes - and the small-mindedness
of only recognising "true Aussies" to be those of
the - "British Australian."
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 December 2018 11:08:20 AM
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CM Foxy both have points that can not be denied but
Yes Labor has factions, one is in control.
But again in the DLP days Diplomatic Labor Party time the split kept Labor out of office
Such a split, while not yet taking place, is on the way
Conservatives have driven the Liberal boat on to the rocks
Only after the coming loss, in NSW and federaly, will they address their internal strife
ScoMo has linked his party to Trump just in time to see both sink in 2019
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 15 December 2018 3:09:06 PM
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Dear Belly,

Lenore Taylor in her article for The Guardian
tells us that the lack of policies at the
heart of the recent insurrection of the Liberal
Party in Australia is not about preserving the
party as a broad church at all. The more recent
actions show us that it is about following the
global trend towards the far right.

She then asks, "What's the point of the Liberal
Party in Australia if it just panders to an
ever narrowing base?" And warns us that by doing
so it will become a party just like One Nation.
Is that what they want? Obviously some do.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/aug/22/whats-the-point-of-the-liberal-party-if-it-just-panders-to-an-ever-narrowing-base
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 December 2018 3:36:17 PM
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Foxy the illness that bought about Donald Trump has infected Conservative Liberals
No one More than Scott Morrison, hence mini me
He has hitched his wagon to a man who will fall in 2019
Trump has dug a hole for himself Scomo has invited himself in to it.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 15 December 2018 5:44:30 PM
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The myth that Conservatism fosters smaller government is exactly that, a myth. What conservatism does is redirect government expenditure away from the majority and towards the elite. If the measure was the number of public servants employed then conservatives would be seen as "reducing government", even if it is an illusion created by outsourcing of government through the engagement of a mass of private contractors and consultants. If the measure is government intrusion into ordinary peoples lives, then conservatives will on the pretext of law and order or welfare control introduce more regulation.
And that’s the way of conservative paradigms such as “small government” “the less government the better” and “government is the problem.” There’s simply no evidence that conservatives really believe these aphorisms as indicated by the fact that conservative politicians rarely ever follow their dictates.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 15 December 2018 6:40:48 PM
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Dear Paul and Belly,

You both may enjoy this:

"When a candidate for public office faces the voters
(in the US) - he does not face men of sense. He faces
a mob of men whose chief distinguishing mark is the
fact that they are incapable of weighing ideas, or even
comprehending any save the most elemental - men whose
whole thinking is done in terms of emotion, and whose
dominant emotion is dread of what they cannot understand.
So running for office the candidate must either bark with
the pack or be lost ... All the odds are on the man who is,
intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre - the man
who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is
a virtual vacuum. The presidency tends, year by year, to go
to such men.

As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move towards
a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folk
of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

(H.L. Mencken).
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 December 2018 6:55:09 PM
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Hi Foxy, thanks for that, very true. As I've been involved in many campaigns by numerous candidates over the years, I can assure you that the best candidate does not always win. To show I'm not being biased as usual, on a number of occasions if the best person for the job had been elected, the local member would have been from the Liberal party and not Labor. One who got to the ultimate position of State Primer was Kristina Keneally, who I judged having met and talked with her about various issues, to be rather mediocre. KKK was top dog in the state, but that's another John Dory!

Well, I do the family Santa act tomorrow, wish me luck, got Jack the Elf with his Harley sleigh (Dasher), minus the other reindeer, to assist, should be fun for the kids and me.

Just of interest, on the customs of people. Had the (step)daughter and kids (moko's) around for lunch today, a cold chicken salad. My wife "T" eats a lot of her food (kai) from a bowl using her fingers, shame on her some would say. As usual she was doing what she often does, when the daughter piped up and said "Mum when are you going to stop eating like that, using your fingers?" She said it was a bad example for the kids, eat like a normal person and use a knife and fork. Mum said her ancestors/people ate like that for hundreds of years, and I have, since I was a tamiti (child), and will till I die. Daughter thinks that sort of thing belongs in the past and not in 21st century. All I said was "I eat with a knife and fork and look at me, I'm not normal, and you aught to see her eating soup (laugh)."
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 15 December 2018 9:10:02 PM
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Foxy and Paul very true including Paul,s thought some times the Labor candidate was the wrong person to elect
It is true of every party
America has refined it,and made heaps, even a party the wrong candidate
Poor old Hilary was another,only in America?
Not really voters, far too many of them, know very little about politics
Not even the most important thing, it is the only way, only single thing, we can do to impact on our world
Only an informed electorate can deliver better politicians
Trump? this year to come will make even his supporters ask what have they done
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 16 December 2018 5:23:31 AM
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Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 15 December 2018 6:40:48 PM
What conservatism does is redirect government expenditure away from the majority and towards the elite. If the measure was the number of public servants employed then conservatives would be seen as "reducing government", even if it is an illusion created by outsourcing of government through the engagement of a mass of private contractors and consultants. If the measure is government intrusion into ordinary peoples lives, then conservatives will on the pretext of law and order or welfare control introduce more regulation.

Answer- Every form of government creates an elite and pulls the resources to themselves. There is a view that government has both "ongoing activities" and "development activities". "Ongoing activities" require a long term stable workforce. "Development activities" require costly short term project staff and consultants from specialty fields to create new government capabilities upon demand from the public. In order to manage costs to the public the government manages both the number of new capabilities under project development and the length of the projects. Right Liberals tend to be less risk adverse perhaps than Conservatives. Right Liberals are happy to spend the money so long as revenue follows. They tend to have a higher risk profile so they reserve correspondingly higher powers to terminate employment in the case that revenue changes unexpectedly. Right Liberals/ Free Traders believe that all things come down to money- they trust in the Free Market. Conservatives don't believe that all things come down to money, they are more risk adverse- but they understand that some risk is necessary- they believe that men and systems are not good or bad by themselves but need to be pushed in the right direction
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 16 December 2018 6:19:38 AM
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The Left Liberals/ Social Progressives / Labor Party/ etc have their own risk profiles- they seem to believe higher levels of debt are acceptable but also higher levels of government cost. In recent years in one case of financial crisis the GFC was addressed by the Labor Party by spending in schools. You could argue that this short term debt effect is offset by the increased productive capability of investing in schools over some time horizon. I can't remember where they got the money from. National Governments can print money- but it lowers the currency internationally- this can increase national debt- it can increase the price of internationally sourced products such as mobile phones and computers which could be important for economic activity.
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 16 December 2018 6:20:30 AM
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The point here is freedom, lack of discipline, lack of responsibility etc have a cost.

Conservatives believe that if we are responsible first then we can have some freedom- we believe that natural traditional systems of social organization are better on balance- we believe that though we need to sometimes manage nature it's best to work with it for stability.

Communists don't believe in individual or cultural ownership of property- they were and are willing to take extreme action to create this system.
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 16 December 2018 6:34:33 AM
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//The point here is freedom, lack of discipline, lack of responsibility etc have a cost.//

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

Eternal vigilance against buggers like CM who would seek to rob us of our freedom.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Sunday, 16 December 2018 7:10:49 AM
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Dear Paul and Belly,

Paul, I love your sharing your family stories with us.
And your wife's eating with her fingers is so lovely.
It reminds me of some of the old-timers in Lithuania
who used to eat many of their meals out of shared big
bowls - way back then. I think it was a universal
custom. Have fun with your Grandkids - what a
Christmas you'll all have.

I just got a telephone call from my daughter-in-law.
She's an architect and is very unhappy in her job.
She's finding the profession no longer satisfying.
Anyway, she wants to change professions. She wants
to go and study nursing. Her interest is in midwifery.
I think it's great and she should pursue where her
heart lies. She's applied for the course and is now
waiting to hear what happens next. It's all very
exciting. Her father does not approve. he's also
an architect (retired). So I have to
be diplomatic - but still try to bolster her spirits.

Dear Toni,

Thanks for consistently making us smile on this forum.
The world is made up for the most part of ignoramuses,
and natural tyrants.
Sure of themselves, strong in their own opinions,
never doubting anything. Your comments always lighten
things up.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 16 December 2018 9:43:58 AM
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Toni Lavis well said with respect CM and I do respect you and your right to your view
Your use of that word COMMUNIST dates you, to a time long ago they actually existed
Never went to a Labor National conference but many state and country Labor ones
Reality is right now the center unity group, our parties engine,will be watering down the excesses of the left.
Any honest observer will, if they research it, find we emerge with a policy agenda not at all leftist
We tread very nearly in the footsteps of a 1950, and 60,s Sir Robert Menzies Liberal party
CONSERVATIVE, just as the American use of the word Liberal, as opposed to our use of it, needs addressing, two very different things exist in the space
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 16 December 2018 10:56:12 AM
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So another thread stalls as they all do, but can not let it die without a few thoughts
As the election draws near, six months is not a long time it is clear Labor has a helper
Scomo has put a dish of cold water out for voters and called it stew.
Never been more enedent his party has eyes only for itself and has forgotten voters even exist
Posted by Belly, Monday, 17 December 2018 5:15:45 AM
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Paul,

Conservative governments have almost always spent less than socialist governments to the point where I cannot think of an exception. Two prime examples are in Queensland where Labor has grown the bureaucracy to record levels and is taking the state debt to Greece like levels, and NT where labor has come cap in hand to the federal government as its debt reaches historic levels but is also not prepared to reduce spending. If you look at the %GDP expenditure by government the increases are almost always by the left whinge

Belly,

The "illness" that enabled Trump's election was in the Democratic party who lost the unloseable election due its abandoning the working classes.

Foxy,

Still suffering from the delusion of objectivity?

I find it interesting how frequently you and the other left whingers post or link polemics from left whinge authors and then try to use them as a foundation for a rational debate on the liberal party. It is like flat earthers discussing gravity.

Those on the right or more conservative MPs are still a far cry from One Nation, and whilst despised by the left whingers, and "getting rid" of them would not improve the vote of the liberal party as a large chunk of voters would simply move to the conservative party or something similar, as happened with the labor party whose voters jumped ship to the fringe greens.

I believe that the real damage to the liberal party can clearly be laid at the feet of Turnbull who thought that he could simply ignore the old guard, and effectively split the party. That SM is doing a great job to reunite the party is too little too late.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 17 December 2018 7:16:33 AM
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CM //Communists don't believe in individual or cultural ownership of property- they were and are willing to take extreme action to create this system.//

That maybe so, but it has no relevance to any major political party in Australia, and that includes the Labor and Green parties. Are you trying to create something out of nothing?
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 17 December 2018 7:18:43 AM
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Shadow Minister,

You've just
proven the point that Lenore Taylor made in her
article in The Guardian. Delusions of
objectivity? You need to allow yourself to read
other sources than that of News Corp.
Go on - live dangerously and give it a go. It just
may shed some light.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 17 December 2018 10:25:30 AM
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Russia is not a communist country it is a huge marfia like crime gang
A sex scandal has bought another conservative minister to leave the front bench
SMH this day
LNP a gift that keeps on giving to my side
Posted by Belly, Monday, 17 December 2018 11:27:13 AM
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Foxy,

I read articles from 3 or 4 news agencies every day incl the SMH, the Australian, the ABC and the Guardian. I would suggest that you broaden your news diet as well, as you seem unable to differentiate between objective assessment and a polemic.

P.S. I am not the one claiming to be unbiased.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 17 December 2018 12:00:04 PM
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Shadow Minister,

I read far more than you ever will and I have access
to far more resources than you'll ever have. As for
your telling us that you have never claimed to be
unbiased in your beliefs - we are all well aware of
that. Your tactics on this forum have not
changed over the years.

As the old adage states -" I am convinced that you really
don't know what to believe. Rather, you only know
what you wish to believe."
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 17 December 2018 12:34:27 PM
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Foxy,

I am not questioning how much you read or the resources at your fingertips, what I doubt is the breadth of what you read. Have you actually read what Newscorp writes?

Was your failure to recognize that Lenore Taylor's article was a polemic due to incomprehension or a desire to believe what she wrote that clouded your judgement?

There are plenty of inciteful and in depth analyses of what is wrong with the liberal party at present, but that was not one of them.

However, I will give you credit for not quoting from the vomitoriums such as the New Matilda or the laughably Independent Australian.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 17 December 2018 2:12:08 PM
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Shadow Minister,

You know very well that I read a wide variety
of sources including, The Australian, and others,
from News Corp. I have cited them on this forum
many times.

I gave the link of Lenore Taylor's article because
I thought it important with Fairfax gone, the need
for diversity in Australia's media is greater than ever.

Have you by any chance read her book co-authored with
David Uren (from The Australian) "Shitstorm: inside
Labor's darkest days." Interesting, well worth a read.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 17 December 2018 3:45:29 PM
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Got it wrong in my last post no one pulled me up
The poll number was 54 to 46 , not as I said Labors primary however went up 3 points
And our next PM gained three points as preferred PM
Posted by Belly, Monday, 17 December 2018 4:52:51 PM
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//That SM is doing a great job to reunite the party is too little too late.//

And exactly what are you doing SM to reunite the Liberal party? Surely you are not referring to the Jim Hacker of the Liberal party the compromise candidate for PM, ScuMo. Then you would be joking.

See another sex grub from the Nationals has resigned. Like Barnyard, cows and sheep are not enough, they have to abuse women as well.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 17 December 2018 9:06:40 PM
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//However, I will give you credit for not quoting from the vomitoriums//

Quoting from the exits? Eh?

It's a common misconception that 'vomitorium' means 'a place where one goes to regurgitate'. In fact, vomitoriums were exits to large public buildings such as the Colosseum, which 'vomited' people into the streets after the show was over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vomitorium
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 17 December 2018 9:41:36 PM
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Tony Lavis just maybe the LNP needs one of those doors make it very wide the rush will be huge as that ship sinks
Sugar Daddy, the latest Barnaby Joyce, is a huge joke
Only his removal will do, but it will not happen before an election
Morals take a back seat in minority governments
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 5:30:01 AM
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Foxy,

I would say that your claim of citing Newscorp "many times" is clearly hyperbole given that I cannot recall an instance and you failed to give an example the last time I challenged you.

Secondly, I don't particularly have an issue with you quoting an article from a well left of center paper such as the Guardian, as there are some genuine articles such as:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/17/former-union-boss-convicted-of-destroying-tonnes-of-evidence-to-pre-empt-royal-commission

However, when you select an "opinion piece" which is essentially a nonobjective polemic and try and present it as analysis, then...

Paul,

Given the scandal around the molester Jeremy Buckingham, and the kiddie fiddler Karel, you are in a glass house throwing stones.

Toni,

Like the word "gay", the word vomitorium has come to mean something other than its original (Latin) definition, and given your clear understanding of my intent and the malleable nature of the English language, you are both technically correct and incorrect.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 7:19:22 AM
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"It's a common misconception that 'vomitorium' means 'a place where one goes to regurgitate'. In fact, vomitoriums were exits to large public buildings such as the Colosseum, which 'vomited' people into the streets after the show was over."

Now you've gone and gotten me curious Toni.
- To add to my collection of 'absolutely pointless knowledge and trivia'
Does anyone know what the name of the actual room was called where people did go to vomit?

I heard that way back when...
The nobility class would go to parties and deliberately stuff themselves full of food until they vomited;
and then they would go and eat more and vomit again.

- And all the while, the peasants in the villages starved -

Is the story true? I'm not sure but I think so.
I don't know what it was about, whether it was some power trip where they would feel above the starving peasant class, or just didn't care; or what.

Anyone know?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 7:56:23 AM
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Shadow Minister,

You appear to be very selective in what you choose
to recall and what you choose to read as well as
cite, while not applying those courtesies to others.
This is a long-standing tactic of yours.
However, it is well worn out and for me
had lost its sheen sometime ago. I shall have to
resist the urge to bother replying to you in the future.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 10:46:05 AM
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Shadow Minister comes with form, he could well be a script writer for this wreckage we call a government
Sugar Daddy has made Kelly look like a saint, not a very bright one but in comparison a saint
Shadow Minister will continue to heap scorn on those from other party,s, even those charged with unproved sex assaults by people who can not be relied on to tell the truth
Ho Hum SM, more Ostrich like behavior not unexpected
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 10:58:46 AM
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Foxy,

Given that I very seldom ever use the term "recall" and recently have only used it in that I cannot recall you recently citing a conservative publication would mean that it is selective. However, that you are unable to provide any evidence to the contrary would indicate that I was 100% correct.

That I appear to read and cite more widely than you would indicate that you share the same tactics.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 11:02:20 AM
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Shadow Minister,

I don't have the time nor the inclination to go through
my posting record for you. I know what I have cited.
And also stated in the past. From dedicating a discussion
to Margaret Thatcher, to voicing my admiration
for - Greg
Sheridan, Gerard Henderson, Janet Albrechtson,
Amanda Vandstone, Julia Bishop, Kelly O'Dwyer,
Peta Credlin, and Peter Costello, and quoting
them. I've quoted Peter Costello quite a lot.

You on the other hand have never veered from your rusted
on tactics. Juliar, Krudd, and other charming names
are part of your political usages.

And you've got the gall to compare me with yourself.
You, are outclassed and always will be.

However, please keep talking. I always yawn
when I'm interested.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 12:07:25 PM
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I rather like Shadow Minister, you have to respect some one who wants to protect this shambolic government so much
He throws stones completely unaware he is showing the very same symptoms that has his party trailing in the polls
Truth is in exile from both him and his party as both await the chopping block of public opinion we call election
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 4:07:34 PM
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Dear Belly,

Don't feel sorry for Shadow Minister.

I'm sure that when his party loses the
election he'll find a way to blame Labor.
It's never his party's fault. That's part
of his and their problem. Always blame
others.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 4:14:03 PM
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Shadow, a new scandal for the government, not only is there another sex grub and sugar daddy in the National party, aka Andy Broad, who claimed he was some god fearing Christian moralists, what a bloody hypocrite! His words "I'm a member of Parliament who's got a belief and that belief does stem from the basic principles that the human race has fallen, that we can be redeemed," what a load of spurious crap. Okay, he's been flicked as of the next election, of course Broad should resign immediately, but like the other past Liberal/National grubs he'll hold on until the death.

The other toad in all this is the Deputy Prime Minister and Nationals leader, Michael McCormack who failed to inform Morrison until yesterday about what he knew, so much for unity. Not only did McCormack fail to inform Morrison he lied about what he knew and when he knew it. Another who should resign
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 6:38:18 PM
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Paul and Foxy, never the less Shadow Minister screams just what is killing his government
His values and views mirror the very madness that has ensured they can not win a raffle, even if they buy all the tickets
You can not win an election if your back is turned on voters
And your defense for men like Sugar Daddy is finding fault with filth from decades ago.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 6:52:51 PM
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Belly,

Your reply is a bit disingenuous considering that Bernard Finnegan only resigned in 2015. Also I was not defending Andrew Broad, simply pointing out that Labor not only has far worse cases, but also has taken zero action against MPs that committed a similar malfeasance such as Tony Burke taking his secretary not his wife on a taxpayer funded shagathon, and Shorten knocking up another man's wife while still married. Similarly, I admit that the LNP's problems are entirely self inflicted.

Paul,

Concentrate on your own party's molesters and kiddie fiddlers first before looking elsewhere.

Foxy,

You are now being a little venal as well. The reason that you are not inclined to review your recent postings is that there are roughly zero citations from Newscorp in the last year. Secondly I have never blamed anyone else for the LNP's failings, and finally while you have consistently complained about my altering of names, yet completely remained silent when others do the same.

Any claims by you of objectivity are blown away. As for the issue of class, I will leave you to stew in your delusion.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 8:50:53 AM
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Shadow Minister,

Still yawning...
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 9:17:58 AM
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Shadow Minister I continue to get joy out of your posts
See I think you are a fair measure of the thought from Menzies house
And am far more than happy to see you and them, still think mud throwing, even untruths or exaggerations, work
Blind to policy, voters wishes, even concerns, but ready to wrestle truth every time
Please do not change about 16 to 18 seat win to Labor is the end result
Sugar Daddy it seems has your support
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 11:24:08 AM
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Reality 101........Who ever wins, is Australia's loss....but let's face it...silk underwear has never transformed a pigs arse
Posted by Special Delivery, Saturday, 22 December 2018 7:03:16 PM
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How do Special Delivery, hope we see more of you
In the end no politician and not party can please very one
However it is my opinion simplistic words like yours ignore a fact at any point in time one side just has to be better than the other
This thread is out dated, just in its short life two more nationals have bought scorn down on themselves
See SMH this day - if you have lost the CWA you have lost the country-
Too same paper an anti Abbott group working to replace him in his seat.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 23 December 2018 5:36:12 AM
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Hi Belly, what can you expect from a party made up of hicks and hayseeds. That fruit loop and former top cock, Barnyard Joy was more suited to a Steele Rudd comedy than a political party.

A gathering of the National party clan;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-7gS_nT_ps

Belly a few strange folk actually vote for these clowns.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 23 December 2018 8:16:20 AM
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Paul,
You say that some strange people vote for the Nats!

How about you look at most that clutch the greens voting slips and see what they look like, or maybe just look in a mirror. Strange indeed, can I blame multiculturalism?
Posted by HenryL, Sunday, 23 December 2018 9:23:58 AM
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Paul it can not be easy being green
You know as I do some of the blind stuff thrown at you is well unfair
You too know while I live on the same side of the fence my view of the greens as they are right now
BUT WHO could not see the party of big hats small brains and sons and daughters named after breeds of cattle is ugly and worse
Angus and brangus like to get out and about and as the country right of reality mob look towards yet another leadership change they seem doomed to be replaced in the bush
Only an influx of women can turn them around
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 23 December 2018 9:39:58 AM
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HI HenryL

You can blame anything you like, spending too much time in the hot sun, too many lonely nights with only woolly sheep for company, I don't know what would possess a person to vote for that cock-a-doodle-doo Barnyard Joy. That is a wonder of our democratic system, not only can you vote for real people, you can also vote for a drongo as well.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 23 December 2018 2:09:23 PM
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Paul until my work life ended I like a punt, on any thing but race horse and Grey hounds mostly
Now if I could get on Labor to win the next election?
Reading the form is important, but never more so when assessing the Mules lining up against us
On current form the safety Ambulance is likely to beat them home
IF I followed the other side my concern would be why they are so uninterested in voters thoughts
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 23 December 2018 3:54:38 PM
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Hi Belly,

I recall our discussions in your "past life" on the forum, remember the good old days of 'onthebeach', ha ha, after your departure he returned to the forum, after a time, as Leo (wankker), we had many a clash. I digress, I recall when you were very pro Bill Shorten, long before he was Labor leader, and I was not a big fan, but my thinking has come around to the point where to quote another, "I like the boy" and his brand of leadership, not a Jack Lang, or a Gough Whitlam, two of the greatest leaders this country has produced. The other side might not agree, they will throw up the Nazi sympathiser and Liberal party founder 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies, no controversy intended, another ha ha.

The Labor team, including my personal favourite Penny Wong, you know she is gay, but don't tell the forums bunch of hard right usual suspects, as that might turn them off our dear Penny, they don't particularly like gays, many of them suffer from homophobia, and that might stop them loving Penny the way they do now. Anyway, the up shot is Labor is ready to replace that rag tag collection of wombats running the country at the moment, and give the people a good Labor government which they deserve.

Belly, I always try to keep my posts as even handed and unbiased as possible, always avoiding controversy.

A Merry Xmas, to you and the family,and enjoy the festive season in good spirits as I know you will, I mean not too much of the amber stuff, leave that to me, have a great day tomorrow, and all the best for the New Year. I believe you're not a drinker these days, which is good. Wish I could say the same, a mate gave me a bottle of rum for Xmas, the (step)daughter kept filling my glass with rum and coke last night, that stuff will knock your socks off. She keep saying "Dad, another glass of your mouth wash"... Dad; "Why not its Xmas!"
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 24 December 2018 9:04:39 AM
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Paul my thanks yes remember the man this forum has always had such a poster
I doubt any one can do any thing to change that
My thoughts about Bill are different than that younger me
I no longer idolize him but I trust him, he is no Jack Lang but he ,once the script writers is hung, will be a very good PM
My problem is I rise to the bait too often, know it is not worth the effort
However let me try again next year
my best mate
Posted by Belly, Monday, 24 December 2018 11:15:01 AM
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Let me wind it up, this thread may never have got to address Kelly.
He was buried in other emerging scandals
IF I was a Conservative voter my concerns would be big ones
Do not make the mistake of thinking it is just my bias
This government, on its present course can not win the election
Now rather than after the defeat, they can improve the chances of a win or saving the ship if not all its passengers
And some clearly are just passengers
Get angry with your party not those commenting on truth
A party with Bishop back on the front bench, some small l Liberals being heard can, at least, stop a dreadful year for the party
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 27 December 2018 3:28:46 PM
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