We have a few fights with Energex around here. Our progress association is always giving them a hard time about reliability of supply of our power.

Some of them admit privately that they really can't clear trees far enough back from main lines without suffering greenie howls.

At the same time the greenies are blaming "Gold Plated" distribution systems for the power price increases caused by renewable power generation.

Well today it blew a bit. Not a major storm but certainly windy. The wind started about 11.30 AM & by 12.15 our power was gone. We advised Energex, & were given the impression that it should be back in an hour or 2. We were about to get out the little 2 KVA generator, but by 2.30 Energex sounded much less confident. Radio reports said 50,000 without power.

So we got out the 10 KVA diesel gen set. It is a lot of work setting it up to supply the house, the granny flat, the drinking water & grey water systems, but was a wise move. After 9 hours, most of our fridge & freezer food would be stuffed. It looks like tomorrow morning if we are lucky.

There will be 10s of thousands of dollars worth going to the tip tomorrow, thanks to greenies who love trees more than their fellow man. I would love to see the greenies who prevent proper power line clearing made to pay for this waste. At least mine won't be there with the rest.

It proves the lie of gold plated power supply once & for all. This was just a bit of wind, not some major thunder storm. Meanwhile I sure hope though that the poor buggers further north fighting the bush fires didn't have to contend with it, it would have made fire fighting very dangerous.

It is like being back in the navy. We don't run this thing connected to the house without someone being "ON WATCH" & ready to shut it down if necessary. I've got the 10 to 2 watch. Roll on 2.00 AM.

Hasbeen

I think you are wrong to blame environmentalists for bush fires, and here is why.
In the case of the big fire on the coast above you, it was entirely caused by the energy company linesmen.
The locals had the initial fire caused by fallen power lines, under control until the arrival of the linesmen. The linesmen cordoned off the area, making it impossible for the locals to further control the blaze.

And on the perimeter clearing of power lines: there is a clearing formula to be followed for the safety of lines and the immediate environment.

These fires are entirely the fault of the power companies and their lack of line maintenance for profit promotion. It's how private enterprise works. It doesn't!

And as for environmentalists. I was diving Julian Rocks off Byron Bay recently; and I can assure you the environment protection plan is working like a charm for the environment. Hand feeding giant snapper which haven't been seen on this site since 1970’s, when the area was turned over to professional fishermen to rape and pillage. Now a marine sanctuary.

As I've said to you before, our navy is a disgrace and national embarrassment. When the sea shepherd private navy is doing the work of our navy for nix, tracking down illegal fishing in Australian waters, it becomes a waste of money.
We should do what NZ did with their navy. Abandon the concept

Still no power after 22 hours, & no advice of when it is likely to be back.

One neighbour was down early to fill 3, 25L jerry cans. He can't get water out of his underground water tank without power. Bad design. He was back a little later after using that to flush his toilets, to get more to leave with his wife.

That reminded us about Mary down the road. She can't lift much due to arthritic, so can't get water from her underground water tanks. Her husband has been in a nursing home for about 6 months now. She does really well except in emergencies.

We took 30 gallons down, flushed her toilets, & refilled the cisterns, so she has at least another flush each. We filled a number of containers she can handle, so she's right for a while. We took a thermos of hot water for her to make tea, but she is ahead of us. She had a kettle on the barbeque as soon as she had water, & was offering us tea.

She's a great old girl. She had filled a couple of eskys with ice as soon as the power went off. The servo ladies had put them in the back of her wagon. She has this backed up to the barbeque area & was more or less camping behind her house. Pity she hasn't been able to sell, she needs to be somewhere more civilised than the wilds of country Queensland. It can be a bit tough on a single lady pensioner.

Aint life grand with a "GOLD PLATED" power distribution system!

Well we will never know, not saying you are twisting it Hasbeen but it is one side
Power contractors came to my home, said large bottle brush was too high, ok cut what ever you want down no problem
They left the top on!
Cut a few branches, not sure why, my job is to do what they did not, get a ladder and on a good day take the top out of it

I didn't mention the bush much increased fire problem Diver, but now you do, that is even more down to the greenies.

We used to control bush fires with a few farm trucks, & a dozen men with whet flower sacks. It wasn't that hard as most of the country, private or public, had been burned recently, & there was not much fuel. Today with millions of dollars worth of gear bush fire brigades, even with huge water bomber back up can't do the job, due to the huge fuel load no the ground.

Today you can't ride through my neighbours 10,000 paddock, with out being scratched to pieces by understory & dead fallen timber. It is so difficult to get fire permits that many like him have given up.

The chemicals we used to control regrowth have been banned, [greenies again], & you can't burn, so previously good grazing land turns into nothing but a choked fire hazard, ready to kill.

Belly of course there are rules, that's the problem.

They were written to pacify the greens. There should be no tree with in falling distance of power lines. Nor only does that secure reliable supply, it also greatly reduces fire risk.

Must go refuel the gen set.

Sorry to hear you are in the middle of it but pleased to see you are caring about others
Think the power company,s including mine are more about cost than law, handy to be able to blame others
Doing my best, not enough, to stop that future fire eating my neighbors house, but you have it right once we burned in winter now the paperwork is just too hard
more fires more deaths as desk jockeys kill by neglect
Interestingly once it was my area of road to look after and my crew would have cleared the drains and vegetation now? not allowed to its not part of the contract

Hi Hasbeen,

Last week, the last power-house chimney was blown up here in SA, at Pt Augusta. No more coal-fired power stations in SA.

By an amazing coincidence, I had a black-out on the Monday night (so I missed Q & A as usual but still had an early night), and again, twice, on the Wednesday, the last one (so far) for around 24 hours. So I did my bit in the spirit of renewables.

It's a wonderful thing, not to get too smug, not to take essentials like electricity for granted. For bringing me back down to earth, back to real life as it must be in Third World countries without any electricity at all, with only wood and dung fires for cooking, I warmly thank the Greens.

Cheers,

Joe

There are thousands of tons of firewood along NSW country roads thanks to Green influence, once upon a time locals used to clean up the fallen timber on the roadsides, and the Council would tell you where there were recent falls (saved them money).
Sadly, no more, it's now worth a possible $5,000 fine for collecting dead wood along a road, with the exception of collecting near Council provided fireplaces for immediate use.

Diver Dan,

"Hand feeding giant snapper which haven't been seen on this site since 1970’s, when ..."

Good work, Dan, makes it so much easier to get them with a hand spear.

Greenies; Pfffttt...

They'd be living under lean-to's in unwashed clothes they stole from the Vinnies bin and wiping their bums with leaves if we left things up to them...

Cant we just feed them to some malnourished animal species and say we were helping the environment?
- They'd do the same us if the nutters had half a chance...

Where are all the starving and endangered snapping turtles?

Loudmouth Joe, oh the joy of it, my $1.000 dollar battery backup solar insulates me from blackouts
Yes a grand, 310 for three deep cycle batteries, now ten years old, two hundred each for three panels, green energy!
Neighbors hate me
They like me have rooftop feedback, more than me, but they run lights outside 24/7, killing cost reductions dead
My outside lights never run out of free power

Hey Belly,
You should upgrade mate.
You can pick up second-hand panels for about $45 a pop now.
- Less if you buy more -

I'd like to take all the second-hand panels we have in Australia now and build huge solar farms out in the desert for second hand panels 'end-of-life' use.

- Where do solar panels go to die? -

And no stealing my business ideas and slogans. NO

Plenty of second hand systems with good inverters for sale on Gumtree.
You should be able to build a 4 or 5 kw system for about a grand.

- Don't forget the isolator switches on the panels and the inverter.

//Sadly, no more, it's now worth a possible $5,000 fine for collecting dead wood along a road, with the exception of collecting near Council provided fireplaces for immediate use.//

If a person collects a fallen tree in a forest and no council stickybeaks are there to see it, do they cop a fine?

$5000,- for taking fire fuel from the side of the road ? This is insanity plus !
Councils should encourage people to clear the scrub of this highly dangerous stuff. Since the morons have stopped back-burning & preventative burning the whole of the bush is now a literal powder keg just waiting for a tinder-dry blade of grass brushing against a hot exhaust pipe.
Then it'll be cries of everything from blame to victimhood.

AC yes cheaper now got 4kw on feedback, it cost more than brand new 6 would today
Fire wood? stupid fools but watch the bush fires see how truly silly it is

Hey Armchair Critic, you might like this one.

We were crazy enough to try to earn a living raising cattle in wide bay. It was during the kafuffle on Frazer Island, when they turned a good plantation timber industry into a fire hazard.

My father in law, who could be a rough old bloke at times was visiting us, at the time when greenies were burying themselves in the tracks.

He wrote a letter to the Maryborough paper with the slogan, "Help fertilize Australia. Burry a greeny today".

I never could figure out why they didn't publish it.

They should really be called Brown instead of Green in order to more resemble the substance they dish out. Their original leader had at least the right name.

The good news about the Greens is that they are being "struck" at the ballot box. (See far-left Victorians opted for Labor over them in the trendy seats) Their leading looney was kicked out of the senate the other day - he'll have to be sedated or strapped to the bench soon they way he carries on. Then there's sobbing-more-often SHY. I'm surprised that they have lasted as long as they have without being sectioned. If the federal election result is anything like the Victorian one, the Labor government won't need the support of the idiots, which should lead to a saner Labor government that doesn't need to pander to the demands of lunatics to get get legislation through. There's a chance that we might see a less extreme Labor if they don't have to toady to the Greens.

Greens!just think! the beggers get more votes than every right of reality party even the Nats, out side Queensland [what is wrong up there] they get more than one motion.
Who do they think they are?
Well not a fan but seems true that if numbers count their are the current third force in Australian politics
One Motion leader should dress up as a green and head in to the senate to warn us all Democracy is a threat

Toni,

"If a person collects a fallen tree in a forest and no council stickybeaks are there to see it, do they cop a fine?"

The fallen tree may or may not have made a noise, but chainsaws are not silent.

Then one has to get the wood home and if the local law stops one and asks where did the wood come from then one had better have a friendly landowner who is willing to say that it came off his property.

Toni Lavis king of stupid and irrelevant comments your latest contribution.
Quote "If a person collects a fallen tree in a forest and no council stickybeaks are there to see it, do they cop a fine?"

You're at it again Belly. Making an untrue statement by inference, in an attempt to attack those you see as your opposition.

Of course any party that stands candidates in every electorate is likely to get more total votes than a party that only contests a limited number of seats.

What counts is what percentage of the vote they get in the electorates they do contest. in that the Nationals & One Nation are far ahead.

The only relevance the greens have is that which your mob give them, in trying to buy their preferences & support.

If you want to be taken seriously, stop trying to twist facts to mean something they don't. It merely makes you look like a cheat.

Mr Trump/Hasbeen sorry congrats on your massive win in Victoria, in your mind that is
As you desperately distance your self from reality may I
Forget us Labor left idiots, read today,s SMH the words of and about your center
As your party sheds its own followers you dog whistle any one you please
After all living in the real world can be unpleasant.
my vote count came from the official count site,,, the leftist buggers are lying again?
Jolly good flogging do them the world of good

Belly,

Hasbeen has a point: the Greens' vote in the Victorian elections declined by around 15 % and one wonders if 10-11 % is about as high as their vote will go, for the foreseeable future. Maybe slowly, slowly higher as younger, innocent Millenials turn eighteen. But then the Greens' older supporters also get older and move towards the Centre. Win some, lose some. So maybe 11 % is as much as they can hope for.

On the other hand, I get the idea that the vote count for the right-wing fringe-parties also declined (someone could put me right there). And, of course, the Liberals lost around 10 % of their previous vote (but probably due more to an incompetent campaign). What seemed to happen was that voters preferred a sort of Left-Centre shift, away from the extremes, and so held their noses and voted Labor.

Cheers,

Joe

Belly,
So now that Labor had this "massive" win in Victoria what do you predict will happen there economically in their next term ?
As many of these first time voters were inspired by Labor's climate change jatgon, what will Labor Victoria do to tackle climate change ?

individual I like you, fair dink um, but gee you talk rot
Crimson hell bloke first time voters
Mad chuckle in that
Above you will see a bloke who, while constantly talking crap is bright, telling me the OFFICIAL ELECTION COUNT see it ABC online Victorian election.
Was untrue/that I was disturbing a rarely used here, truth, by posting it
See voters even Liberals, this result could not have came without them, voted as they wished.
You and every single poster on this site and those who run it have the best Christmas ever
I will have a word with Santa and see some reality ends up under some trees

Belly,
So, what will be all the good coming from the Vic Labor Govt. What improvements can we expect in the same time frame as labor gives the Coalition ?

Indy, the subject has until now, not been part of the thread
You can, if you wish, continue to inform us voters got it wrong/the roof is falling
Every tax payers wallet will be taken
However what have you to say about the past four years of the government
those years and actions saw the government reelected

Shopping day, 45 klm each way
Worth every bit of it
Old fella told me the truth about climate change
Seems all you have to do is walk out side and smell the air
Its a fraud he screamed at any one not moving away fast enough
Now if only the LNP can convince about 45 percent of its voters

Belly Belly Belly, Quote, "Mr Trump/Hasbeen sorry congrats on your massive win in Victoria,"

Mate, what will it take for you to understand that unlike you, rusted on to a party no matter how good or bad they are, most of us don't have a party.

Nothing on earth could have made me vote for a party that had Turnbull as it's national leader.

The local liberal was a Turnbull supporter. Nothing could ever make me vote for him, EVER. No one who was stupid or dishonest enough to support Turnbull could ever represent me in Parliament or anywhere else for that matter. If they could stomach Turnbulls policies they could never represent most Ozzies.

Not that I think Labor is any better, & for sure the Greens are really dangerous, but nothing will get me to vote liberal as long as they keep dishing up any the slime that supports Turnbull in any electorate.

We used to have a great Liberal Lady here. Mother of 6 for gods sake, & still had more energy than anyone else I've met. Since her, nothing but seat warmers, & none I wanted to vote for.

Perhaps if the Nationals still ran three cornered contests, & had a candidate here, there might be someone worth voting for, if we got very lucky, but won't happen.

So please stop thinking we are like you. Many of us will never have a party, & would never be proud of being rusted on.

Dear Hasbeen,

You wrote;

"Some of them admit privately that they really can't clear trees far enough back from main lines without suffering greenie howls"

No they don't and you yet again are full of it.

Steele,

The roads of NSW, particularly on the Coastal Range highways are bordered by many dangerous trees, it is because of Green influence that these trees cannot be removed as in the past, and so they are left as potential death traps for motorists.

I used to think Steely did have some idea, but was just a mean mouthed lefty.

Now he has shown is an articulate twit, who would not know which way was up even if sitting on the bottom of a pool, watching the bubbles rise.

Dear Is Mise,

I thought the topic was about trees causing blackouts now you are claiming it is because they are too close the road.

Would it be too much to ask you lot to make up your minds or are trees just bad?

Dear Hasbeen,

There are protocols around the removal of vegetation around power lines. You have not provided one instance of them being relaxed and putting others at risk.

Next you blame your blackout on trees. Why don't we try this for a lark. You tell me the approximate area you live in and I will formally write to Energex and see what the cause of your outage really was.

As to being "mean mouthed" as much as I try this is one area I just can't hold a candle to you. I think you take the twit honours as well.

But I will keep trying.

Steele,

The subject is "The Greenies have struck again.",
so all of their idiotic influence on tree removal is relevant.

Did you notice in the news on the Queensland bushfires the proximity of smouldering trees to burnt out houses and sheds?

We got a truck-load of mulch when Essential Energy lopped / cleared trees along powerlines . But it cost us when the follow-up gang cut down poplar trees on my and neighbour's private land . It wasn't Greenies who struck . They did the same in Qld with a bulldozer backed up near the house which swept the fenceline trees into a heap for burning.

Ise Mise two inventive posts, fantasy but inventive
Any road worker will tell you it is the cost of removal not passionate love of trees that brings those tree lined roads about
SOME roads, remain in tracks once used by horse and carts bullocks and such because every dollar spent on roads has to be accounted for
Yes, some greens have invaded road works in effort to stop trees being felled, even in the middle of a planed new road
But heaping every issue on them is? well you think about it

"Did you notice in the news on the Queensland bushfires the proximity of smouldering trees to burnt out houses and sheds?"

On private land? Qld votes Green not red head Nation? The unions had green bans but probably the local Green shop-steward fresh food people can't put yellow ribbons around everyone's house trees.

Belly,

I was referring, in particular, to the Coastal Range Highways, have a drive on the Gwydyr and see the hundreds of dangerous trees growing right on the edge of the road on notoriously unstable slopes.
The Gwydir Highway is known for landslips that block it, and much stabilization has been done of recent years.
I know a lot of the road workers and supervisors in the area and they tell me that the removal of ONE tree involves reams of paperwork.

This situation is due to the Greens and their pernicious influence.

I drove from Guyra to Inverell, via Tingha, yesterday and the amount of dead wood beside the road, in heavily timbered areas, is frightening in terms of fuel for the next bushfire.

The worst thing about road side trees in country areas is that in bushfire times, it only takes one, weakened by previous bush fires, to come down across the road, to block any escape from many areas.

Even in storms they become really dangerous. In our last big thunderstorm, the one that had our power out for 5 days, my son was one of 6 vehicles caught between 2 large gum trees down across a main road near here.

Trapped between 2 trees a hundred metres apart, these cars were bombarded with branches up to 200mm diameter for about 15 minutes. It was too dangerous to get out of the cars.

My son dragged one of them far enough aside with his large winch after the blow for the cars to get out. All were damaged. His ute being of stronger metal was less than most, but it was still an $8,000 insurance job to fix it.

It doesn't take much to pick the inner city twits reading posts here for a day or so.

Is Mise know the road well like Hasbeen drive a bit quick [based on his past posts]
Worked on the road from Port Mac to tablelands and trees survived because of costs not greens
Many very early am 2 or 3, morning trips for union work up there yes every road is the same but if you have your head on it can be both safe and fun

", have a drive on the Gwydyr and see the hundreds of dangerous trees growing right on the edge of the road on notoriously unstable slopes."

(erm cof cof) I fink ya got da nashunal park , guv. full of green , everywear ya look like. not next to houses been a park an that.

Nick,

I'll take your post at face value and regard it as stupid.

Belly,

I'm talking about today, and my friends assure me that tree removal is a paperwork pain in the butt.

What think you about all the dead wood (actual, not administrative) that can't be removed from the roadsides?

Lord Is Mise, your honour
The topic , Sir.

"Some of them admit privately that they really can't clear trees far enough back from main lines without suffering greenie howls. "

Power lines . Washpool National Park.

From Is Mise,
"I was referring, in particular, to .. the hundreds of dangerous trees growing right on the edge of the road on notoriously unstable slopes. The Gwydir Highway is known for landslips that block it, I know a lot of the road workers and supervisors in the area and they tell me that the removal of ONE tree involves reams of paperwork.This situation is due to the Greens and their pernicious influence."

Removing a tree takes out the stabilising effect of roots > unstable soil> landslips > blocked roads . Greens cause rain , wind and soil structure . They make guns misfire , interfere with CO2 chemistry, discourage the barrier reef from spawning and destroyed Turnbull.

Is Mise,
You said "Did you notice in the news on the Queensland bushfires the proximity of smouldering trees to burnt out houses and sheds?"

Yes I did, and noted a few other things from the TV coverage.

The fires are only in the bush areas and the pasture areas are green so no, or low intensity, fires there. Down South, in NSW and Vic the grassed areas dry out and provide much fuel for fires, not so in coastal Qld.

Did not see any pictures of bulldozers working to establish fire trails and containment lines through the bush so I wonder if fire bosses here do not use that strategy in Qld. Fire trucks are useless unless they can actually get to the fire. Containment lines can be put in during night one and each night after. Aircraft are good for hitting any spot overs next day.

Anyone that has a home in a bush area should be aware that sooner or later there will be a fire threat and clearing or thinning of hazardous material should be done to stop radiated heat causing house to ignite. Make the house your refuge and do not evacuate as the house will be under ember attack and one able bodied person can save it. Of course evacuate children and infirm that need looking after. In my opinion far too often mass evacuations are ordered and many houses are lost because of this. There is much information available to make houses safer but if left alone they will burn from ember attack.

My heart goes out to those that have lost al

"Did not see any pictures of bulldozers working to establish fire trails and containment lines through the bush so I wonder if fire bosses here do not use that strategy in Qld."

That's it , the Greens control fire bosses and leave caterpillars in old logs.

Dear HenryL,

Well mate I am not going to speak on bushfires in Queensland but down here in Victoria that kind of talk will get people killed. There are many people who died in the Black Saturday bushfires who stayed to defend their homes and deemed themselves to be very well equipped. Their bodies were left for others to clean up. One story my cousin told me was of a young mother at the roadblock after the fire had gone through asking about her husband who had remained. She was sure he would have survived because they had built a fire bunker for him to retreat to if he felt he couldn't manage. The fieries went to check and they found him in the bunker without a scratch on him. It was later determined the flames had been that fierce around his home they had stripped the oxygen from the air to such a degree he suffocated.

Here is a video of a bloke who at least had a decent clearing around his property. He was pretty confident until the fire appeared.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT0u7JrmlxQ

SR,
You said "It was later determined the flames had been that fierce around his home they had stripped the oxygen from the air to such a degree he suffocated."

I call bull. Fire needs three things to exist Fuel, heat and Oxygen. It is called the fire triangle, eliminate one of those and no fire. A fire cannot be so severe that it depletes the surrounds of oxygen and a victim dies from lack of oxygen.

You show your ignorance.

Dear HenryL,

This was in the same fire and the victim was out in the open and did not have a burn on his body.

http://youtu.be/dpvM6FoUwMI?t=4425

He was likewise deemed to have suffocated. So now you go tell this widow and the coroner your theory. You go tell them they are ignorant.

Strewth! Me showing my ignorance? Mate I was going to write that you sir are not only ignorant but a fool and one of the worst kind because your foolishness may well cost lives.

However you may be someone who accepts the facts when placed before them and adjusts their thinking accordingly.

But a small word to the wise, you really shouldn't go labeling someone as ignorant so quickly. Doesn't leave you too much room if proven otherwise.

So you're a Victorian Steely, that does explain a lot.

However for a Victorian to start trying to tell anyone else how to handle fires is the height of arrogance. Goes with ignorance I guess. When we consider your entire fire authority, from the commissioner down was found so incompetent that they should have faced criminal negligence charges, I would expect any Victorian with a shred of decency to be very quiet on the subject.

Not so you of course, which tells us even more.

Steele,

One of the most important thing in a fire bunker is an independent air supply for that period when the fire may sweep over.

This is easily done by having a number of tubed truck tyres (on rims) and inflating them as much as they can safely stand.
The air in them is not nice to breathe but will sustain life, I've tried it and 'Yuck!!"

"The 19 firefighters who were killed last weekend in an Arizona blaze died of burns and inhalation problems, according to initial autopsy findings released Thursday. Cari Gerchick, a spokeswoman for the Maricopa County Medical Examiner's Office in Phoenix, said the Hotshots died from burns, carbon monoxide poisoning or oxygen deprivation, or a combination of the factors."

Another theory is that their ignorance and incompetence choked them as they followed UN and Green orders to stop thinking

Dear Is Mise,

Indeed. Although it seems according to some people it would be impossible to suffocate in such circumstances.

My understanding is that Victoria has the only set of standards for fire bunkers in Australia. They must be airtight and have enough air for the occupants to survive for at least an hour. In such a structure independent air supply would not be vital. However I know a few people on bush blocks without fully sealed bunkers and they all have scuba setups.

Dear Hasbeen,

Mate if I had the slightest inkling that you had the faintest idea of what you were talking about I might ask why. But I don't so I won't.

But just for your edification here is a list of major bushfires in Australia since settlement. Note there is not one Queensland fire which made the list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfires_in_Australia

Do you think companies like Oh My Woodeness! who make 'eco-sunglasses' are actually helping the environment or destroying it like every other fashion brand?

Plum welcome, did you see on social media a story from feminists, thankfully in another country that feminists should not eat eggs?
TRUE eating eggs it says is anti feminist
Now such dills exist
Hence this thread, some greens just like some anti greens, are dills
However are you pulling our leg?
Or one of your own?

Greens ban wood-chips for paper which blocked the Abbott-Morrison-Soros boat people from reading about submarines. Labor funneled taxes to France and forced Libs to pay about 36 or 50 or more billions or the boats will stop. The Lib Minister for Boats says money doesn't grow on trees and gave 1/2million to barrier reef boats. These are not submarines thank goodness.

1/2 billion barrier reef. Same thing. In the red because of greens.

But just for your edification here is a list of major bushfires in Australia since settlement. Note there is not one Queensland fire which made the list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfires_in_Australia

Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 8:50:40 PM

Don't worry Steely, now we have Labour in government we have greatly reduced our fuel reduction burns. Buys green preferences don't you know.

It may take a few years, but we should have similar ridiculous levels of fuel in our forests soon. Then just watch our fires. Probably a fair way to go in self destruction as practised in California forests, but on the way.

We are getting there in terms of laws too. This Labor government is going around declaring private property as private open space. The owners still have to pay the rates, but aren't allowed to do anything on it, not even clear the fallen timber that is giving them a private fire hazard.

Evidently this stuff is good breeding habitat for little critters. Lets them breed up so we can burn more of them in these fires. Typical green logic.

We are not quite at the stage where we fine people who clear the trees close to their homes, [other than in those private open spaces], to reduce fire hazard, but give the lefty/greens time & we'll get there too.

As I said, knowing you are a Victorian tells us much.

Belly, "Is Mise know the road well like Hasbeen drive a bit quick [based on his past posts]"

Yes Belly, I have driven a bit quick. How about 182 MILES/hour down Conrod straight Bathurst, the year I won the Gold Star Formula 1 race there in the Brabham Repco. Didn't like it much to be honest, 160 mph is about as quick as was safe in those 1960s open wheelers really.

One of the beauties of doing things like that is that it removes any interest in driving fast, as compared to reasonably quickly, on public roads.

One of the reasons for some doing silly speeds on public roads is lack of opportunity to do it in a suitable place, & having an itch they need to scratch. Many countries have track days, where the general public, for not silly costs, can go & get it out of their system, without endangering anyone but themselves & a few others doing the same thing.

My car club ran a day at a race track for members to do some fast laps recently. Most did not go too silly, they respect their old classic cars too much for that, but a few did give themselves a bit of a fright, going faster than they are used to.

I went along to help as an organiser, but had no interest in driving. I do own a 150 MPH Honda S2000. I own it because of the way is stops & steers, because it is a nice convertible with an easy electric hood, & as a Honda, very reliable, but mainly because I like driving small convertibles, & wanted to avoid parking my Triumphs in shopping centre car parks. Perhaps you misread some earlier post of mine.

Well done Hasbeen speed has been my life long sin/fun never hurt or killed any one
Truth is not possible now radar killed that
Been in a formula one, at Charlie Seals long time ago he was older than me then so not about probably
Would not dare say how fast I have driven but it was much more than the hundred miles per hour and often
oh! lines have been marked on Pacific air assisted speed checks in place for Christmas!

Scotland is predicting trouble with power supplies.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1054654/power-cut-scotland-electricity-supply-engineers

Major Scottish power cut could last days, engineers warn
ENGINEERS have issued a warning about the growing danger of a power blackout – leaving Scotland facing deaths, riots and widespread food and water shortages.

The Institute of Engineering and Shipbuilding in Scotland (IESIS) said relying on wind farms at the expense of coal and gas has led to the “growing likelihood of a complete failure of the electricity system”. With Scotland now almost entirely dependent on wind, nuclear and hydro power, it would take “days rather than hours” to restore the country’s electricity supply. The warning comes in a new IESIS report which calls for the creation of an independent UK-wide energy authority to avoid the problems witnessed in the USA and elsewhere.

The report adds: “All UK coal-fired generating stations are expected to close by 2025. Coal-fired and gas-fired generators are important in restoring electricity supply after a system failure.

“Wind generators can only have a very limited role in such situations and nuclear generators cannot be quickly restarted. The time to restore supply in Scotland is now estimated in days – several days – rather than in hours.

“A lengthy delay would have severe negative consequences – the supply of food, water, heat, money, petrol would be compromised; there would be limited communications. The situation would be nightmarish.”

He said: “The system was designed to keep the risk of failure to an acceptable level. For many decades the risk of failure was low.

“Now, we are closing thermal stations to reduce emissions without a robust plan in place to address the long-term security of supply and security of operation.”

GMB, the energy union, said there were 65 “low wind days” last year where wind farms produced less than 10 per cent of their total installed and connected capacity.

In relation to green power the Australian government has been given a free kick by the media
Solar is not dailite only
Storage batters can store unlimited power for night use
And because it is profitable science/investors are pushing it further every day
No point in me yet again talking about my twin system, but it has log ago paid for its self and saves me big bucks still

Philip,

Scotland: 65 "low wind days" in a year would be one day in every six, on average. But look on the bright side: that still leaves five days out of every six producing MORE than 10 per cent of their total installed and connected capacity. Surely, they're living in almost the best of all possible worlds in Scotland ?

Joe

Loudmouth - Problems are also maintenance, repairs decommissioning expenses.

I wonder if they factor into the carbon footprint the manufacturing, shipping,installation etc into the so called carbon friendly tag.

We can if it comforts us, find new ways to call clean energy a threat
But in truth like it or not it is our future
Nuclear got a mention, do we all understand it would be the cleanest and once online cheapest of all
And that Japans act of stupidity Russia's doing it on the cheap, has told us much
Battery storage is the future
Unless someone unlocks the new clean and very cheap energy source that has been hidden from us
Fear of the financial loss near over night, of current fuels and power generation systems drives the anti clean energy lobby

Philip,

Are the construction costs of wind towers (concrete, steel, rare earths, etc.) or solar panels ever factored in, over their working lives of ten-twelve years ?

Yes, I know like everybody else does, that fairies make wind towers at night, using no energy at all, and certainly not coal-fired power in China. But (this will show my complete ignorance) what about the costs of transport and setting-up of wind towers and solar panels ? As you say, maintenance - perhaps maintenance workers go out to maintain and fix wind towers on fairy-power as well.

We may come to envy Scotland for their more-or-less, 83 %, steady supply of electricity.

So when is nuclear energy going to be seriously considered, like in France and Finland ?

Joe

Meanwhile, there is jubilation in Western Australia as new iron ore mines are opened.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/rio-tinto-plans-to-start-mining-at-huge-iron-ore-site-in-pilbara-20180618-p4zm79.html

Do they smelt iron ore with renewable energy?

Is most of the world's steel produced with renewables?

Joe (Loudmouth),
It's the anti renewables crowd who are off with the fairies.
There were certainly studies into the environmental costs of wind tower/turbine construction a few years ago, but the results so strongly favoured the wind turbines that I don't know if they still bother.

BTW they don't always use rare earths. And the can be expected to work a lot longer than ten to twelve years (as can solar panels).

Nuclear power would have been a sensible solution for Australia twenty years ago. Now it's too late - renewables can do the job cheaper, even when the cost of storage is factored in. But nuclear power still has a great future in smaller, less sunny and less windy countries.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Philip S,
The planned cable linking Scotland and Norway will do a lot to fix the problem - when they actually get round to building it.

Like Australia, they're slow in doing what need to be done.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Is Mise,
>Do they smelt iron ore with renewable energy?
Not yet. But renewables play a big part in Sanjeev Gupta's plans for Whyalla.

>Is most of the world's steel produced with renewables?
No. AFAIK Brazil is so far the only country to produce significant amounts of steel with renewables.

We're going to have to wait a few years for the cost to come down and the technology to be developed, but I expect most of the world's steel will be produced with renewables by 2040.

Dear Philip S,

The good ol boys at the Institute of Engineering and Shipbuilding in Scotland have been banging that drum for ages always with 'civil unrest' at front and center of their scaremongering.

People whinge about 'global warming alarmists' but this lot put them well and truly to shame.

Got anything more even handed for us?

Hi Aidan,

Perhaps one day, wind towers and solar panels will be profitably produced using renewable energy, and no subsidies. But probably only in very-low-wage economies. One day.

Joe

Whilst we are talking of wind farms, one thing has me puzzled; the
"Sapphire Wind Farm is located in the New England region of northern NSW. The site is 28km east of Inverell and 18km west of Glen Innes to the north of the Gwydir Highway in the Kings Plains area. It has two neighbouring wind farms, White Rock and Glen Innes, which are located to the south of the highway."
http://www.sapphirewindfarm.com.au/project/

Now the Saphire has bright red lights atop its towers but the farms to the South of the highway do not and I've wondered why; is it just some form of bizarre advertizing or is there another explanation?

Hi Joe,
From your post it is clear you're under the impression that electricity from renewables is more expensive than electricity from fossil fuels. But that's no longer the case.

SteeleRedux Quote "The good ol boys at the Institute of Engineering and Shipbuilding in Scotland have been banging that drum for ages always with 'civil unrest' at front and center of their scaremongering."

Talk is cheap, which aptly applies to your reply.

Now if you can point out what parts of the article are wrong we would love to hear about it.

Being sarcastic about an article does not make it false, it just shows the commenter in this case SteeleRedux is full of hot air and has nothing constructive to add to the discussion.

Dear Philip S,

Piss off mate. I put 4 times more original words into my post than you did in your entire cut and past job.

Therefore it can not be construed in any way to have been a 'reply' to anything you had written. At best it was a pithy comment on a regurgitation.

Now if you wanted to put your opinions about the article to the forum then I would be happy to furnish a reply.

Hope we are all aware greeny,s are a bit different from true conservationists
Seems we tend to lump the good and bad together when talking about caring for the environment and life in general
Such groups as PETA do far more harm than good, making all conservation suffer in some minds

Hi Aidan,

Thank goodness ! Now we can start slowly reducing the subsidies on renewable energy projects.

Do you mean just in Australia, or everywhere else ? So you're saying that renewable energy can be generated more cheaply than coal-, gas- or nuclear-fuelled power-stations ? Wonderful ! At last !

Clearly then, there is no need to mine for coal or gas or uranium, since they involve more expensive forms of electricity generation ?

So why wait for ten years or twenty years or fifty years ? Why not close up every non-renewable energy generation source and rely totally on renewables ?

As well, why not plant vast areas of trees, crops and natural vegetation, to soak up the CO2 that is already in excess in our atmosphere ? And, in Australia, to provide lifelong employment for thousands of people, mainly up in the remote north ?

Problem/problems solved. Now we can focus on more important issues, such as self-chosen pronouns.

Thanks, Aidan.

Joe

SteeleRedux Quote "Piss off mate. I put 4 times more original words into my post than you did in your entire cut and past job."

1st When you have to resort to the first three words as above you have lost.

2nd Since when has any argument been won by the person who uses the most words?

Now if you can point out what parts of the article are wrong we would love to hear about it.
So I can only assume you have no evidence that the article is wrong in any way.

In light of your reply this still applies.
Being sarcastic about an article does not make it false, it just shows the commenter in this case SteeleRedux is full of hot air and has nothing constructive to add to the discussion.

Quote "Now if you wanted to put your opinions about the article to the forum then I would be happy to furnish a reply."

You can't answer anything above so why would I waste my time?

Dear Philip S,

Lost? Lost what? There is nothing to win or lose here. You see if I were to properly engage in the article you would simply not answer my points of contention but would instead go off on a completely different tack.

Even when I ask you to back up your own claims you say they are self evident therefore not requiring a response.

So old chap sharpish retorts are all we are left with. They can certainly be fun but ultimately with little substance. However since this is the bed you chose to make for yourself faux indignation about the result is quite laughable and shows you to be a bit of a nob.

Actually 'Piss off yah bloody nob head' does seem a more fulsome and appropriate response don't you think.

SteeleRedux - Quote "shows you to be a bit of a nob. Actually 'Piss off yah bloody nob head' does seem a more fulsome and appropriate response don't you think"

Why would anyone want to get into a discussion with someone has nothing tangible to retort,BUT all that person can do is a lot of nothing word and the quote above

Hi Joe,
>Thank goodness ! Now we can start slowly reducing the subsidies on renewable energy projects.
We already have. But with decreasing wholesale prices, there will still be a need for more wind and solar farms, so don't expect the subsidies to drop to zero unless we find a way to exploit all the excess energy produced.

>Do you mean just in Australia, or everywhere else ?
Australia and some other places, but not everywhere.

>Clearly then, there is no need to mine for coal or gas
Coal and gas aren't just burned to produce electricity - they have direct industrial uses as well.

>or uranium, since they involve more expensive forms of electricity generation ?
As I said, costs are different in other parts of the world. So there's still plenty of demand for our uranium, and that's likely to increase.

>So why wait for ten years or twenty years or fifty years ?
We certainly shouldn't wait fifty years! I think a twenty year transition is reasonable.

>Why not close up every non-renewable energy generation source and rely totally on renewables ?
Three reasons:
Firstly, implementation takes time, both with the solar panels and the other associated infrastructure. Projects like Snowy 2.0 don't just build themselves!

Secondly, the costs of renewables are still falling. And the cost of big batteries is also likely to fall substantially as improving technology enables them to be made from cheap elements such as sodium and aluminium instead of more expensive ones like lithium and vanadium.

Thirdly, the subsidies that would be required to attract the necessary investment would attract a lot of opposition, both from existing power generators and from people ideologically opposed to subsidies. And unless there's a change in the way they're paid for, there'd also be a lot of opposition from power consumers.

>As well, why not plant vast areas of trees, crops and natural vegetation,
>to soak up the CO2 that is already in excess in our atmosphere ?
There are carbon farming activities occurring, but without a carbon price it's not economically sustainable.

"Now the Saphire [wind farm] has bright red lights atop its towers but the farms to the South of the highway do not and I've wondered why; is it just some form of bizarre advertizing or is there another explanation?"

Does no one know?

Aircraft safety is the best bet,at least the light uses renewables

Belly,

That can't be it as the lights are 25 to 26 metres below the topmost point of the arc of the blades.

Or maybe that is it and some hapless lost pilot is supposed to know of the added hazard?