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The Forum > General Discussion > No right to privacy if you visit NZ

No right to privacy if you visit NZ

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New Zealand's Customs and Excise Act 2018 went into effect today. That means travelers who refuse to give their phone or laptop password to customs officials will be fined NZ$5000. In addition, their devices will be confiscated and forensically searched.

Customs Minister Kris Faafoi said these digital strip searches are necessary because "A lot of the organised crime groups are becoming a lot more sophisticated in the ways they're trying to get things across the border. And if we do think they're up to that kind of business, then getting intelligence from smartphones and computers can be useful for a prosecution."

But Thomas Beagle of Council for Civil Liberties pointed out that organized criminals are smart enough not to keep incriminating files on their devices.

Customs spokesperson Terry Brown] said the law struck the "delicate balance" between a person's right to privacy and Customs' law enforcement responsibilities.

"I personally have an e-device and it maintains all my records - banking data, et cetera, et cetera - so we understand the importance and significance of it."

Council for Civil Liberties spokesperson Thomas Beagle said the law was an unjustified invasion of privacy.

"Nowadays we've got everything on our phones; we've got all our personal life, all our doctors' records, our emails, absolutely everything on it, and customs can take that and keep it."

The new requirement for reasonable suspicion did not rein in the law at all, Mr Beagle said.

"They don't have to tell you what the cause of that suspicion is, there's no way to challenge it."
Posted by Philip S, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 1:09:07 PM
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Sorry personal freedom will never be as important to me as stopping terrorism and drug or other crime.
IF they did not do it and a terrorist act followed?
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 2:16:59 PM
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The 2016 Act is almost the same:
207 Data in electronic devices that are subject to control of Customs
(1)

This section applies to any electronic device—
(a)
that is subject to the control of Customs; or
(b)
that a Customs officer has reasonable cause to suspect is subject to the control of Customs.
(2)

Data in the device may be searched in accordance with the following powers:
Powers if threshold met

(a)
the power to make an initial search if a Customs officer has reasonable cause to suspect that—
(i)
a person in possession of the device has been, is, or is about to be involved in the commission of relevant offending:
(ii)
an importer or exporter of a device (other than a person to whom subparagraph (i) applies) has been, is, or is about to be involved in the commission of relevant offending:
(iii)
an unaccompanied device has been, is, or is about to be used in the commission of relevant offending and the importer or exporter cannot be reasonably identified or located:
(b)
the power to make a full search if a Customs officer has reasonable cause to believe that evidential material relating to relevant offending is in the device:
(c)
the power to require a user of the device to provide access information and other information or assistance to access the device:
Powers with no threshold

(d)
including power to require a user of the storage instrument to provide access information to allow a person to access the instrument):
(e)
the power to make a full search of unaccompanied electronic storage media that is an optical disc imported other than for personal use for the purpose of determining whether it contains any pirated copy within the meaning of Part 7 of the Copyright Act 1994.
-
It's like the US fire-wall where they asked guys in overcoats and beards "are you a Communist?" , "yes" and the poor sods were frog-marched to Guantanamo , no no that's commie land. Alcatraz.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 2:48:03 PM
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Pos difference is the $5000 fine and they confiscate items.

Belly, It is not about stopping terrorism and drugs, they might catch a few of the low level player of drugs.

If they really wanted to stop terrorism and the drug bosses they can do it far easier, follow the money that,s right the banks are the key.
Posted by Philip S, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 6:01:56 PM
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Police seem keen to carry out computers to their cars in various home searches. " Oi mate that's got all our bike maintenance repairs and garden herb purchases".
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 6:07:35 PM
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Dangerous ground, the erosion of civil liberties, all in the name of stopping the bad guys.

//Sorry personal freedom will never be as important to me as stopping terrorism and drug or other crime.
If they did not do it and a terrorist act followed?//

Hi Belly, such an open ended statement can put us into very dangerous territory indeed. Arrest without charge, shoot on site, they are all covered by that statement. Governments, even those of the moderate persuasion see it as necessary to obtain for themselves the maximum powers possible within reason, to as they believe, protect society. The removal of civil liberties is done incrementally, a little here, a little there. Generally seen by most as being all rather innocent. Some would argue; if your got nothing to hide, why worry, after all its only aimed at the bad guys. What we often forget is, powers given to the moderate government of today, carry over to the government of tomorrow, and how will that government use and extend those powers, no one can tell.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 7:08:34 PM
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Hope the herbs don't have suspicious names and there are no weeds.
Posted by Philip S, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 7:08:44 PM
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NZ is suspect on all levels. Primarily in the major scam stakes. NZ has sold itself out to the highest bidder and become the go to country for Chinese money laundering; the facilitator for scam immigration into Australia, and a go to for laundering Chinese poisonous food into Australia, by rebranding with "made in NZ" as the less than subtle disguise.
Nothing from NZ should be trusted, including their own immigration and border security systems.
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 7:33:11 AM
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Sadly, Western governments have taken it upon themselves to appear to be looking at the best interests of their citizens.In fact they are turning the life of good citizens into Hell on Earth.
So as not to seem to be targeting specific groups such as Chinese in
NZ ,Arabs and Blacks in Britain or Muslims and Blacks in Australia everyone is targeted.
At airports in western counties.Everyone has to take off their shoes ,belt,jackets etc then pass thought screening.
I forget the last time a White Christian or Jew blew up a plane .NEVER.
Yet Jews and Christians have to go through this ritual humiliation every time they board a plane.
The Security industry is the fastest growth sector in our economy.
I cannot understand people thinking and saying .
It is better to be safe than sorry.
When they are having their dignity and respect stripped away from them.
The Gestapo during WW11 used to employ the same procedures as present day Airport Security Staff but no one complains.
Posted by BROCK, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 8:59:40 AM
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Chinese goose-berries with micro-chip ATM card-skimmers became kiwi fruit. The NZ war-lords now have vote-rigging pc hackers in strawberry needles.
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 9:00:39 AM
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Come on fellers, it is their country.

If you don't like their laws, don't visit. After all no one is forcing you to go there.

After seeing on a TV program, the arrogance of Canadian boarder security personal, there is no way I would set foot in the place. The same goes for a huge chunk of Africa, the middle east & Asia. The lack of the rule of law would keep me out of these today.

Hell from what I've heard recently even Spain can be a bit dicky where justice is concerned. A little bit of voyeur activity by NZ security folk looks pretty harmless by comparison.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:48:45 PM
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"Did you enter the product as 'Marijuana' on your MYOB file ?"
"Why yes of course officer , the Commissioner of Taxation in Canberra requires that".
"And your password?"
"It's 'smartEvasion' if you must know".
"OK you're cleared . Enjoy NZ Sir".
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:54:38 PM
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Hasbeen - Any bet Australia and others bring it in soon.

Go overseas boring night you download a movie to watch say Skyscraper 2018, when they look at the phone or pc it will show up, copyrighted movie not available on dvd etc piracy phone confiscated.

All your phone contacts emails everything on that phone or PC can be copied, not a thing you can do about it
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 8:38:29 PM
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" Burke has threatened to sue pirates in Australia. .
the damages being sought would be in the region of a "speeding fine". Depending on the type of penalty Burke was alluding to, this could be anywhere between $80 and $2000+ per infringement."
$80 is about 2 adults and 2 kids at a theatre. Less embarrassing than feds dragging the family out of movie for not paying. Don't know if customs will leave the download once the matter is settled and paid.
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 9:12:52 PM
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When you follow this up, you find that this searching your electronic devices would occur only in conjunction with other searches if are a suspicious person. 99.9% of travellers will never know anything about it. I don't even have password on the tablets I travel with. This is a complete non-story. Unless, of course, you are dressed in a Muslim body bag.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 4 October 2018 10:35:02 AM
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Dajjal: The Slayer and His Followers

Directed by Rana Abrar

Release date
October 2018

Country Pakistan, UK, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Jordan
Language English, Arabic, Turkish, Malay, Indonesian, Urdu
Dajjal: The Slayer and His Followers is a 2018 upcoming conspiracy-thriller animated film about the Current Middle East Crises, written and directed by Rana Abrar. The plot follows an ancient plan for dominating kingdom to controlling the world and the actions to save the world from global annihilation. Pirated downloads will cop a massive penalty , loss of computer , ripped up burqa and rude questions.
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 4 October 2018 10:53:50 AM
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ttbn - quote "This is a complete non-story." Looks like your opinion is not shared by a lot of people around the world.

OUTRAGED travellers have vowed to avoid New Zealand after it became the first country to fine passengers who refuse to hand over their phone passwords at the border.

Travellers who refuse to hand over the passwords will be charged up to $NZ5000 ($A4580) and could face having their device confiscated as well as prosecution.

Previously, customs officials could stop anyone at the border and demand to see their devices but until now, the law didn’t compel travellers to provide their password as well.

“We’re not aware of any other country that has legislated for the potential of a penalty to be applied if people do not divulge their passwords,” New Zealand customs spokesman Terry Brown said.

But customs officials won’t be able to access the Cloud, he said.

“It is a file-by-file (search) on your phone. We’re not going into ‘the Cloud’,” Mr Brown told NZTV.

“We’ll examine your phone while it’s on flight mode.”

Officials must have a “reasonable cause to suspect” a device or its owner to warrant the digital search and data may be copied and reviewed.

“The shift from paper-based systems to electronic systems has meant that the majority of prohibited material and documents are now stored electronically,” a New Zealand Customs spokeswoman said.

“The reality of this law is that it gives Customs the power to take and force the unlock of people’s smartphones without justification or appeal — and this is exactly what Customs has always wanted.”

Travellers have also taken to social media to express their outrage at the news.

Someone else pointed out: “So now, you and I need to hand over all our data, while professional or suitably motivated wrongdoers can just upload all stuff to the Cloud and buy a new phone after crossing the border. Am I the only one seeing the police state in this? Not travelling to NZ soon.”
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 4 October 2018 4:04:54 PM
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Abrams Mk1 tank of Australian Army and Customs. Overall performance
Power plant: Gas Turbine Engine 1119 kilowatts
Speed: More than 60 kilometres per hour;
Operational range: More than 400 kilometres
Armament: 120 millimetre M256 Smooth Bore Cannon, 12.7 millimetre M2HB QCB Machine Gun.

This weapons system is lethal reducing the average Australian home to land-fill in 3.6 seconds. Tourist luggage is not accepted in Council recycling. Tank commanders will launch an attack only under legal provisions of Australian Customs Act 1901 as amended.
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 4 October 2018 4:42:06 PM
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nicknamenick - Isn't that the tank they bought that is too heavy to go over nearly all the bridges in Australia, making it virtually useless?
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 4 October 2018 4:49:24 PM
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ReichsMarshall Prince von Dutton has insisted that his department have M1 tanks at all towns with domestic airports. Inmates of movie piracy slave-camps will form chain gangs to pull tanks on barges across rivers . If the neighbour's TV suddenly goes quiet it's due to suspected tank movements.
Posted by nicknamenick, Thursday, 4 October 2018 4:57:52 PM
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I have a really smart phone that anyone can have a look at any time.

It's from Telstra and doesn't have a name or model number on it, it lets me send and receive messages, including text (which I never use), stores phone numbers, has a calculator and a GPS (which I also never use as I know where I am.).

It can also be turned off, which is its usual mode, stops people ringing me and if it's important they can always leave a message.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 7 October 2018 2:52:06 PM
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Message Inbox:
Is M we send novichok in perfume bottle get rid new mufti in shooter hooter igor and boris meet you sergio house hit police net
VP
Posted by nicknamenick, Sunday, 7 October 2018 3:23:45 PM
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Tois-ms,

I check my inbox every time that I switch on the phone, then delete all, very rarely is there a message, most of the callers are probably telemarketers; I don't know as I never ring back if there is no pertinent message.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 7 October 2018 10:37:47 PM
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Sir we found 2000 rounds of .50 BMG 750 Grain A-MAX Jacketed Flat/Soft Point (JFP/JSP) under your bottles of Jameson. With your background of Irish thugs from Uí Néill of Connachta and Eóganachta Airgíalla aka "Mug's half" after Mug Nuada we must ask you to step into the interrogation room . Hand over your communication equipment please with password.
Posted by nicknamenick, Monday, 8 October 2018 8:05:19 AM
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3m

My phone is not sophisticated enough to have a password.

I only have the thing in case of a breakdown on the road and my family insist that I have it when I go out hunting alone.

On the only occasion that I've had to call the NRMA, since I've had it, I was in a dead spot and I had to ask a passing motorist to make a call for me somewhere further up the road.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 8 October 2018 8:54:25 AM
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However , Customs have only your word for that . Why do you keep evading our investigation and hiding your mobile in your sock?
Posted by nicknamenick, Monday, 8 October 2018 9:21:10 AM
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