New of the recent attacks shocked as that area has not been known for them.
But last few years norther NSW ans WA has become almost common place as sharks head inshore should we be killing them?
stay out of the water seems hardly an option so net, kill, or how do we protect humans, do we even protect humans?

I am a conservationist, but some give that word a bad name.
Calls to stop killing sharks after the recent attacks, this year and last, seem rather silly to me.
As Australian Salmon, no longer netted for cat food, become huge schools feeding near NSW beaches sharks follow them, and we see more attacks, humans or sharks? what do others think

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The very earliest seafarers wrote of "there are big fish & they have terrible teeth & they eat men".

The consumers demand seafood so now that the sharks' food chain is missing quite a few links, the animals do what animals do. They grab anything that moves. Never before have so many humans been frolicking in the sea so it seems only natural to me that humans will play an ever greater role on the sharks' menú.

Marine Parks in particular make good Dollars from people in the water so, culling is the only way to prevent fatal encounters of the toothy kind.
Educating or rather enlightening people not to swim during shark feeding times is a must.

Dear Belly,

We need to make beach going as safe as possible but
I don't think that zero-risk exists and that culling
is the answer.

Do we cull brown snakes, crocodiles, and other "dangerous"
creatures? Or do we call someone to remove them?
There must be better ways of dealing with these problems
than killing.

shark is eaten around the world. Some shark tastes good.

So does other animal food.
But not to vegeterians.

For a time After leaving road works and before taking up my union job, I fished beaches south of Balina for twelve hours a day.
Sharks became an ordinary thing, seen all the time in the waves hitting the beaches even ripping my jew fish, favorite target, or Tailor on the way in.
People, despite being warned, swam midst schools of bait fish.
Asking for trouble, shark has always been food, many fish and chip shops sold only it, until NZ Hoki became even cheaper.
Foxy in truth bush people kill, and always will those snakes,not too around the farm yard or house, even suburban rural homes, is to invite death to unwary kids or adults,yes kill the shak not the swimmer

But not to vegeterians
Foxy,
Cattle, sheep etc too. That's why the flesh devouring creatures are the more switched on.

Indy,

Not so sure about being "switched on."

Many suffer from obesity and health problems.
That vegans don't have.
Maybe it's a question of moderation and balance
in all things?

Only a ratbag group of the species would ever suggest we should protect our predators.

It does appear that we have a virus risen in the human species that causes such stupidity among those infected, that they want to see others torn apart by predators.

We should automatically put down any such infected people, as they are traitors to their species, & totally incurable. They are probably the most dangerous predator of all.

//Should we be Killing those Sharks?//

I dunno, what species are they and are they endangered?

There are sharks in Lake Macquarie, where I go swimming in the warmer part of the year. Big buggers, by all reports. I don't worry about being attacked by them, because life is too short to worry about extremely improbable things like that unless you're flying the starship 'Heart of Gold'.

//Only a ratbag group of the species would ever suggest we should protect our predators.//

Did you know that animal most likely to kill you in Australia isn't a shark, snake, spider, crododile, venomous jellyfish, blue-ringed octopus or any of the ones you might think of at first, or be frightened of?

It's horses. Dangerous predatory animals, if you consider it from an actuarial point of view. I'm not saying we should round all of them up for pet food, but we really should get rid of all the unnecessary ones to minimise the risk. We could start with the ones they use for racing. I know horse races are fun but they're also pointless, and you can race dogs or some other less lethal animal instead for much the same level of excitement.

Now cue ratbag traitors to the species to suggest we should not cull horses because they, personally, are fond of horses.

Tony Lavis know the lakes well not a long way from here, but the sea is very different sharks feed on bait fish and herd them near shores or just find them there.
In about a month, sadly as the season for swimming gets warmed up, sharks will again attack from Balian south to at least Evans heads and in WA people will be maimed and even killed
Forster has schools of salmon feeding just outside the wave line with catches of ten in an hour not unusual, we can not afford to net the whole coast so killing is the best option.

If we stop for a moment and think.
Firstly lets remove emotions from this topic.
Now lets look at the natural order of things.
Humans are the greatest predator of them all.
That's OK, it's not a bad thing, I'm just setting the parameters or terms of reference.
Now vegetarians have been mentioned as a suggestion to possibly leaving all living creatures off the 'kill' list.
It is a fact that vegetarians are mentally deficient.
ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about the animal world, of which humans are included, will tell you, for a truly balanced diet, we need meat.
A simple reference to our 'canine' teeth will confirm this.
So more to the point, yes we should as a matter of course and survival, and common sense, cull as many of these dangerous creatures as possible.
I do not subscribe to the belief that if we are encroaching on some creatures territory, then WE are at fault and therefore if we get killed, too bad.
This totally mindless notion that we should not kill or cull, for that matter, is pure nonsense.
There is even a case for culling the human species.
Considering that at around 6 or 7 billion people on the planet, (being the largest number of any species) we could do with a cull ourselves.
It's not so far fetched an idea when you consider that feeding the world is becoming an ever challenging exercise.
So, 'Should we be killing those sharks'?
ABSOLUTELY!

ALTRAV agree, in the end those you highlight often make choices for us all from a point few share, vegetarians about eating meat.
Non swimmers about killing sharks.
Japan kills whales, we are told for experiments but in truth to eat, but that is another issue.
In the end in a country that tells the world of our Bondi Beach, the revells in our beach culture, sharks that are near swimmers should be culled

Cullnig sharks should be according to the species, beginning with the top predator.
1; Money Sharks. Then train the Great Whites & Tigers & Whalers how to sus out useless bureaucrats & other pointles humans whilst they're polluting the water with their mere presence.

//Should we be Killing those Sharks?//

We already are, have been for years. Shark populations are in steady decline, and a fraction of what they used to be.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RrYYCPQgucg/T4ZOagO5yHI/AAAAAAAAD7c/SBzKdhoRLRI/s1600/shark%2Bdecline.jpg
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/5304214/shark-numbers-are-declining-and-thats-bad-news-for-australia/
http://phys.org/news/2018-03-decline-shark-populations-remote-pristine.html
http://www.sharks.org/blogs/science-blog/sharks-in-decline
http://www.coml.org/discoveries/trends/shark_decline_effects.html

So as the shark population has declined, the number of attacks (according to Belly) has skyrocketed (not sure if that's actually the case, couldn't find any helpful stats on a quick search). In other words, there seems to be an inverse relationship between shark populations and attack rates.

In which case, how is reducing their population even further supposed to help? Wouldn't that just drive up the attack rate? If we had higher shark populations in the past and that was correlated with less frequent attacks, shouldn't we be trying to help shark populations increase in order to reduce the frequency of attacks?

Toni, I'm not sure how to process your suggestion on INCREASING shark numbers.
My immediate reaction is, 'absolutely not'.
Then I began trying to work out how it could be possible that, firstly shark numbers are down.
Secondly, how it could correlate with attacks on humans.
I don't know where you got your references from but I am adamant about one thing, and that is, I definitely do not subscribe to the theory of 'increasing' the shark population, at all.
I would in fact promote the idea of culling them into extinction.
Along with crocodiles, just to mention two.
There are a lot more I would add to that list.
People will argue that by extinguishing whole species, it will somehow affect the balance of nature.
I say, nothing will happen, except we humans won't have to worry as much, when we are out and about, as we did before.
It's not a competition as to what kills more or less humans.
It is quite simple.
We are the dominant species and therefore we must 'dominate'.
There is no excuse or reason why we must put up with innocent people dying because of some damn useless, dangerous animals.
No reason at all.
I can understand these fools dying by mis-adventure.
They put themselves in harms way and paid the ultimate price.
But when someone is going about their business, not doing anything wrong, and gets killed, through no fault of their own, then it is highly irresponsible of the community if they do not react in a firm and decisive way.
If that means killing a species off to protect human life, then so be it.
It's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.
For those who disagree, stop and think, if the next death is someone you know or love, and it would not have happened if we had a real killing/culling program on permanently.

A shark fishing industry, to harvest its oil, was once very active in this country.
And killing them with shot gun cartridges on the head of spear guns was done as a sport.
Less fish, a product of over fishing? is driving sharks toward people in the water.
Bit surprising any one has not noted the increase in shark attacks

Some people don't appear to realise that sharks don't think like academics.

Taking lives for sport is not the way sharks do things. Ethics means they only take what they can eat , same as at smorgasbord where you don't pile on the smoked salmon and caviar and just walk away. The same with doggie-bags , any left-overs are collected by other fish , crabs , lobsters and coral if possible although they are a bit fussy.

If there were less people in Australia and less fishing in the world there would be more habitat for Sharks.

CM, I'm afraid I would want to see a damn good plan or explanation as to why there would EVER be a need for more sharks, unless they were to become a greater food source for humanity.
We have been eating shark for decades at the ole' fish-n-chip shop, so looking at it from that perspective, it would also increase the fish stocks at the same time because less sharks to eat the fish stocks.
I had a quick look at the links Toni put up on page 3.
I thought the statement was a little hard to believe, so in reading a couple of the links I find that the 'experts' were referring to localised regions, and not the world as a whole.

They make more room on waves where surfies are breeding too fast.

Does the culling of sharks really prevent shark
attacks?

And are there alternative methods that would be
better - such as shark spotting using beach
surveillance and shark awareness programs?

The following link from the RSPCA - might help
towards a better understanding:

http://kb.rspca.org.au/what-is-the-rspca-position-on-the-culling-of-sharks-to-reduce-shark-attacks_561.html

//A shark fishing industry, to harvest its oil, was once very active in this country.//

Jesus, really? I'm glad that died out; I'd never heard of shark oil before and had to google it. Turns out shark oil is snake oil. Thank god we've got proper medication these days and don't need to rely on quackery.

//Less fish, a product of over fishing? is driving sharks toward people in the water.//

Well it's an interesting conjecture... but seeing as shark are fish and their populations have declined along with those of other fish because of over fishing, I reckon there's still plenty for them to eat.

Bear in mind that sharks don't really seem to like eating people. Which makes sense; we're not fish, they're not going to be well adapted to eating land-based mammals. And we don't seem to be all that appetising to them, because they rarely take more than one bite. It's hypothesised that they bite mostly out of curiosity, discover they don't like the taste, and swim off. Obviously, if it's a large shark, that one bite can really f^&k you up.

//Bit surprising any one has not noted the increase in shark attacks//

Yeah, maybe you just naturally gravitate towards the stories and pay them more attention than most of us? Are you by any chance selachophobic?

//They make more room on waves where surfies are breeding too fast.//

Gross... don't public indecency laws outlaw that sort of thing?

One thing stands out when the do-gooders make suggestions.
The suggestions cost a lot of money.
Now either those people who don't want sharks killed/culled, have far too much time on their hands to come out in the sharks defense, or they must be very wealthy.
Anyone who argues saving the sharks 'at any cost', can pay for it themselves.
A big problem about the tree huggers and the like, they do not consider ALL the implications and ramifications of their very narrow, naive views.
It is absolute lunacy to not try to do everything possible to eradicate any and all threats to human life.
What hypocrites, these same people will not bat an eyelid if thousands of humans get killed in wars, or if one gets killed by a shark.
Yet suggest killing that same shark and you are immediately set upon.
If the RSPCA are so concerned about some damn sharks, fine let them pay to have them stop killing humans.
Until then I say to them and their followers, STFU, real people don't want to hear your bleeding heart stories unless you agree to prioritising people and not animals.

You can't hang a shark . The noose slips.

ALTRAV,

Dismissing someone else's opinion does not make your
own more valid. Instead it dismisses your value as
a discussion participant.

//You can't hang a shark . The noose slips.//

And they have gills.

What do they teach them in these schools?

Tony Lavis you have miss placed you smugness
Shark oil was called, never know why, Cod liver oil
Avery large processing plant was at Nelsons Bay, around 1920 or earlier it was not the only plant.
Zane Grey had some rollin it, read a book about it and believe me it caught plenty.
Went broke
Not sure of the books title but it was fact not fiction and more than worth the read
BE assured long ago gave up posting fiction, it existed.
What would the do not kill mob say if it was some one they loved killed?

'What do they teach them in these schools?'

that a girl can be a boy and a boy a girl. Also that you came from an ape.

Foxy, I fail to see the relevance of your 'dismissive' comments.
If I am dismissive towards any comments, then please attack the comments and why I am wrong.
Simply using the word 'dismissive' several times, about a comment does not give substance or credence to the point being made in rebuttal, because we are no wiser as to why I am at fault over what I wrote.

ALTRAV,

Kindly read your post on page 5.

The language that you use, the assumptions that
you make about people you don't know, and their
name calling is by anyone's standard (to describe opinions
that obviously don't agree with yours) dismissive
and unfair.

Sharks can produce sounds but no vocalizations because they lack the necessary organs to emit sounds from the throat. Some reports from New Zealand say that the whale shark (Rhincodon typus) “barks like a dog” but there is not much information about this, and there is not a scientific confirmation either. Most can detect low sound frequencies and weak electrical signals detected by their Lorenzini ampoules. Sharks live in groups called “schools ” and it is common for them to communicate with each other either by sight or by arching their body. This kind of communication is common in the gray reef shark (Carcharhinus amblyrhynchos), which also perceives its surroundings thanks to its excellent smell sense and a sharp ear. Attempts are being made to get sharks' views on recent events.

//Also that you came from an ape.//

Geez, you must have gone to a really crap school, runner. At my school they taught us that humans and apes descended from a common ancestor.

OK Foxy, I read the post I wrote on page 5, as you requested. Nothing stood out, so can you tell me which part or words you refer to. I would like the opportunity to either explain or correct the comment as required.

A nation in love with the sea we do use it and sharks live there
At one end of the debate we kill those that come near the beaches,
At the other we could set up a spectator sport as they kill swimmers
Ivote for culling

Somwewhere a diver wrote that sharks avoided an area where dead sharks had been left on the seafloor by speargun shooters. May work to do that at attack sites after catching them on bait lines.

//Shark oil was called, never know why, Cod liver oil//

No, cod liver oil is derived, somewhat unsurprisingly, from the livers of cod.

I was perhaps a little too harsh in my condemnation of fish oils as quackery; there is some evidence that fish oil has nutritional benefits, in particular a high level of omega-3 fatty acids. But fish oils can be obtained from all sorts of fish; when shark are already highly over-fished, particularly for their fins, we'd be better off obtaining fish oil from different fish.

//What would the do not kill mob say if it was some one they loved killed?//

Well obviously, I'd be upset. Same as if they got struck by lightning, or had a meteorite fall on their head, or were killed by an escaped tiger from a zoo.

I'm just not about to lose much sleep over any of those fates befalling them, because the odds are so astronomical that it's not really worth worrying about. I'd be a lot more concerned about them drowning when they go swimming, which is a good deal more likely. I remember when I had to do a family tree for school, Mum telling me about one of her great uncles who fell off a Sydney ferry and drowned in the harbour. And don't forget about Harold Holt... these things happen. Shark attacks, not so much.

//A nation in love with the sea we do use it and sharks live there//

Yes, I go to the beach occasionally. Mostly I stick to the lake, and as I said, sharks also live there. Whoopdee-frigging-doo. The chances of them taking a bite are so close to zero they might as well be zero, so I'm still going to go swimming if it's hot.

I actually got curious and looked it up. Last time there was a fatal shark attack was in 1882... been a lot of people gone swimming in the lake since 1882, Belly. And none of them got eaten by a shark. I reckon she'll be right, mate.

If a hoon has shark-teeth painted on his car and does a hit-run he may well lose his car. Or have it sprayed pink.

Tony, fair go mate! could you think I did not know that? did you not see the? after I will never know why?
The book was a very interesting one, not written by Zane Grey, a well known Author and fisherman,
Even before Bob Dyer and Jack Davies broke fishing records including sharks.
Research, goggle, then call me lier.
But if you find the book read it, you will not be sorry, as stated or briefly mentioned both by me and nicknamenick spear fishing to kill sharks existed
How many died? Trawlers returning to the processing plant, full of dead sharks, to harvest their liver oil, and brand it cod liver oil, must have in the time it existed killed far more than drum lines
goggle nelsons bay shark harvesting for liver oil

//as stated or briefly mentioned both by me and nicknamenick spear fishing to kill sharks existed
How many died? Trawlers returning to the processing plant, full of dead sharks, to harvest their liver oil, and brand it cod liver oil, must have in the time it existed killed far more than drum lines//

Yeah, why do you think shark populations have declined?

Over-fishing isn't a good thing, Belly.

Toni, I looked into a couple of your links on page 3, and found that the comments about fewer sharks was taken from a localised area and not a broad survey covering the whole world.
So we can't use that info as a guide to shark numbers, world wide.

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https://www.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/blogs/top-5-endangered-sharks

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Tony my reference to shark fishing, and past killing was an effort to say it did not seem to affect current numbers
Not all that good researching but entered shark liver oil,and it is harvested still today.
In many parts of the world, and used as medicine even in today's America, in fact quite widespread, will under line will in time find that book that tells us it was sold as cod liver oil.
Shark fin is as we both know seeing many killed, my point was never extermination, it as without shame putting humans first

yes researched for that book, it exists but I could not find it.
It was 50 or more years ago when I read it, can remember still, it was a shock but well written and it stuck.
During my search I find shark liver harvesting still exists in some third world country,s, too that shark fins are still harvested
Even got in to reading expert opinions why shark fishing is killing them out
And other saying it will be the reason we preserve them while continuing to harvest.
Never the less as was to be expected my search found many many shark attacks, storeys of White Pointer breeding areas of Newcastle NSW and fears that was a danger to swimmers

Al Jaz news site this morning Tuesday, *why are humans killing 100 MILLION sharks a year*
Stunning numbers

Yes you can see how sharks are thinking , even with left and right wing factions. But the result is the same.