Two dead two critical over night, every weekend dealers in death stalk our party scene selling the young drugs.
Some huge fortunes have been made not always by the ordinary criminal class
Nanny state some will scream, other legalize it, maybe the last would at least stop the criminals, and the deaths? not sure but build new prisons, have a prison lead jump in jobs, put the animals, they always are animals, away forever

Informed posters know you can, with the huge amounts of cash involved buy police politicians air and sea port security with drugs money.
Those that do are dealing in death.
The death of millions world wide,not just drop out drug users but every day good kids out for fun of just keeping up with their mates, surely it is time to find answers?
In the 1970, maybe a touch earlier, it was common whispers that some of this country's richest people had massive increases in their income funded by drug importation, as exposed in one of the more important news papers of the day who rather than name them used names such as Crocodile for one at least.

Dear Belly,

Yes drugs are a huge problem in our communities.
Our Labor Premier here in Victoria - Daniel Andrews
found that having "injecting rooms," have worked to
get people off drugs. What is a concern though is
that the Libs (should they get in) plan to abolish
the program. Yet they are working in the battle
against drug addiction.

Go figure.

I recall many years ago having a drink with a Senior Sergeant & eventually the conversation got onto the subject of drugs.
He actully said to me "if you ever witness a drug deal don't go to the cops, they're most likely involved & you'll be the one in trouble".

Individual bet even our ex cop will confirm that, court records prove it too.
Sydney had one of those mass rave type party's two died three are near it in hospital,
10 charged with selling drugs, who knows what was in them? some truly dangerous stuff is be used to get that high

Nobody has ever died from a marijuana OD, but they do die of alcohol poisoning. Despite the medical facts, alcohol remains legal and marijuana does not.

Drug policy isn't really based on public health concerns, Belly.

'Nobody has ever died from a marijuana OD,'

just a lot of zombies with suicide rates very high among users.

Runner

It is possible that it's the type of people that use and need it, who are naturally among the suicide prone do you think?

Runner PS

You always make me smile....

//with suicide rates very high among users.//

Nope:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/06/180613162658.htm

Of course Toni. What to do expect. Toni again illustrates that you will find the answer you want especially if it is a lefty cause. Ask those debunking the warming myth and your funding will dry up very quickly.

So the warming deniers are druggies?

Who says we don't learn something new on
this forum. Wow!

Have a look at the policies on drugs in the countries that have the least problems.

Tony Lavis I agree legalize it now,, and ignore those who name its users as druggies
Here locally and in a life that saw me mix with many different people even shared it with serving police officers, it is not the drugs I highlight.
Right now ICE kills more every day, it ruins lives by the thousands, it destroys familys.
The party drugs on sale at rave party can include pure poision
We must not ignore its devastation on us all.

Nobody has ever died from a marijuana OD,
Toni Lavis,
that does make marijuana look harmless however, have you got info on how many deaths are attributable to loss of concentration due to the drug ?
I have seen people pretty spaced-out just after a couple of joints & drinks. I am certain there were many road deaths because of this. So, your implying that dope is not as bad as hard drugs is not quite in perspective.
The old LSD was a great Gene pool detergent when the users thought they could fly.

Yeah I agree, legalize dope and stop Ambos treating ODs at dance parties, and on the street and clubs, after all if they are silly enough to take the rubbish why should we bother to come to their aid. Ambos can better ways to spend their time and treat genuine accident victims.

Great way to get rid of fools I reckon and raise the general IQ of the country. Pity we have to spend time and money on raising and educating them.

The Sydney Morning Herald, a few years back did an
article on whether the "good old days" were really
all that good? We have drug problems now, we have
corruption, we have criminal gangs - but according to
that article - all of that is nothing new. OK, they
say that there was no ice or heroin - but they
wondered whether very many people today would remember
that the six o'clock swill was probably one of the worst
drug situations that humanity has ever had.

We're told that at the six o'clock forced closing of pubs,
people would finish work at 5.30pm and drink as many beers
as they possibly could and then when the bar was about to
close they'd get half a dozen beers and stick them on
the windowsill outside, which you were allowed to do, until
they were almost paralytic drunk. Now that was not a pleasant
thing to go home to your wife and family with.

These were drunken people who were also beating up their wives
and their kids. So to look at drugs as a recent problem is
just not true. In fact in some ways we're told that it was worse
then than it is today.

You will never get rid of drugs. But as we learned with alcohol -
you can decriminalise it and control it. The same should go with
the problem drugs we have today. We also need stronger sentences
and crack downs on the criminals who sell these drugs (honest
judges and police officers would help). And also injecting
rooms to help wean drug addicts off drugs would help.
As proven in Victoria - injecting rooms do work.

As proven in Victoria - injecting rooms do work.
Foxy,
Any info on how much it costs a drug abuser to visit there ? Are these facilities paid for by us taxpayers ? If so why ?
Do alcoholics get a free drink ?

Well we will always get the smug let them die flipancy comments but try it if a bright young member of your family dies as a result.
Then talk of fools doing it to them self but ignore what grog in all its forms does to even more
Ignore the dealers in death, unless they come from an ethnic group we do not like.
But without drugs it would be a betterworld

Indy,

The Government found that it was far more expensive and
problematic - to
have addicts in emergency rooms in hospitals, being cared
for, or, overdosing on the streets, and so on. Whereas
having them being weaned off drugs as part of a controlled
program in injecting rooms - was working. Less people were
overdosing - the figures of drug users had fallen - and hospitals
were reporting less numbers of drug users having to be handled
by overworked staff and doctors. It
was a good outcome all round for the state.

I hope that helps you understand.

Shutting down or ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
It's not a question of "buying beer" for alcoholics as you
put it. It's a question of getting them off the beer - by
appropriate methods - as in injection rooms for drugs or
rehab facilities for alcoholics.

//Right now ICE kills more every day, it ruins lives by the thousands, it destroys familys.//

Yep, it's dreadful stuff. Mind you, what else you can possibly expect from f*&king bikies attempting complicated organic syntheses in their garden shed? These were the kids who failed junior school science... I can confidently state know a lot more about chemistry than them, and that I wouldn't be willing to consume any organic compounds that I synthesised with my limited grasp of organic chemistry using jerry-rigged lab equipment.

//The party drugs on sale at rave party can include pure poision//

Yeah, we need pill-testing at music festivals. There was a good opinion piece in today's Sydney Morning Herald on this subject:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-simple-question-mps-opposed-to-pill-testing-should-ask-themselves-20180916-p50427.html

//I have seen people pretty spaced-out just after a couple of joints & drinks. I am certain there were many road deaths because of this. So, your implying that dope is not as bad as hard drugs is not quite in perspective.//

Oh yeah, you definitely shouldn't do drugs and operate heavy machinery. I wouldn't recommend driving under the influence of weed any more that I would drink-driving. Although curiously enough, I've never felt as zombified off any illegal drugs as the time I did my back falling off a retaining wall and spent a few days on opiate killers. Those things pack a hell of a lot more wallop than my herbal brownies. Greg, the stop sign!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwI2NrVYqIE

Sorry, not all that relevant, I just love TISM.

//Yeah I agree, legalize dope and stop Ambos treating ODs at dance parties, and on the street and clubs, after all if they are silly enough to take the rubbish why should we bother to come to their aid. Ambos can better ways to spend their time and treat genuine accident victims.//

OK Banjo, and how do we tell the difference between somebody who has passed put because they've taken the drugs that you don't approve of, and somebody who's just had too much to drink which is totally fine because getting plastered is the Australian way? For that matter, how do we tell if they've passed out due to intoxication or just had a stroke or collapsed from heat exhaustion or whatever?

As a first aider - I'm qualified to do no more - all that is expected is that you render assistance as best as you are able, and contact those who can better provide assistance, i.e. paramedics.

It's not your place to pass moral judgement formed on the basis of f%^k all medical knowledge. If somebody collapses, you check for danger, send for help, and apply what first aid you can.

You don't ask all the surrounding bystanders if they've done any drugs before you decide to send for help or not. Because if you do, you're going to: 1) look an almighty twat, 2) have to live with your own conscience for ever, 3) possibly face legal repercussions, if you let somebody die of causes unrelated to drugs whilst you're busy playing silly buggers instead of helping them.

//Any info on how much it costs a drug abuser to visit there ?//

They're free; junkies spend all their money on smack.

//Are these facilities paid for by us taxpayers ?//

No idea.

//If so why ?//

Because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to just give junkies free syringes than to have them share needles and diseases. Syringes really aren't that expensive, especially when you consider the saving they represent. Prevention is not only better than cure... it's a damn sight cheaper. I don't know if safe injecting rooms are private charities or state-funded, but if it's the latter then I'm fine with that: I'd rather see my taxes spent on roads and schools than treating junkies for diseases that could have been easily prevented by just giving them a clean needle, even if that does make Tories sad. Poor little Tories.

//Do alcoholics get a free drink ?//

No, why would they? Junkies don't get free smack, they get free needles. Maybe you could ask them for a free glass or a bottle-opener?

yep free condoms were also going to stop teen pregnancy and the murder of the unborn. Dream on.

Toni,

Spot on;
a great frirnd of mine, the late Declan Affley, Uillean piper, folk singer and an all-round nice bloke was turned away from three hospitals because he was assumed to be drunk, he died very suddenly at home that same night.

"Affley was well known as a singer of traditional songs such as "Carrickfergus" as well as performing the work of contemporary songwriters including John Dengate, Don Henderson and Harry Robertson. He died suddenly at the age of 45 from a dissecting aneurysm of the aorta"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declan_Affley
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/affley-declan-james-12121

//a great frirnd of mine, the late Declan Affley, Uillean piper, folk singer and an all-round nice bloke was turned away from three hospitals because he was assumed to be drunk, he died very suddenly at home that same night.//

Criminal. A Uillean piper is one of a rare breed; they're too precious to lose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MxFsk4sYM4

Toni,

Thanks for the link, I'd not seen that one before.

"A Uillean piper is one of a rare breed; they're too precious to lose"

I know that full well!!
I play them for my own amusement/satisfaction, 'twas Declan that got me started back in the 1970s.
Two of my sons and one or the daughters are pipers but on the "normal" bagpipes.

Think some need to take a look at them selves, those places setup so drugs could be taken in a safe place did not come about to make it easy but to stop deaths from over dose.
And as NSW is seeing as parents of past victims come forward to support more penalty's for dealers in death, such as bikers, some times the victim is a sweet kid
How can we not see it is time we did something?
Can we ignore the great damage cash from this grubby industry does, buys court judgments, police officers, politicians?
Doing some thing has to be better than let them die do nothing
Tony Lavis in my time as a construction union official I knew many with such injurys, and never met one who as first wish, did not want to be back to the day before the pain began

//Two of my sons and one or the daughters are pipers but on the "normal" bagpipes.//

Great highland bagpipes, Is Mise. Easier to play, but I don't think they sound quite as nice as well played Uilleann pipes. Still a fiendishly difficult instrument of course.... sadly I never even mastered the practice chanter. I'm not what you'd call musical. I think it runs in families, and there's nobody that you'd call musical in my immediate family.

And of course, the advantage of the GHB (not to be confused with the other GHB) over Uilleann pipes is that they're a heck of a lot louder, which means you can do this with them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwLaDzKFiBY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQlFBWf9wrA

Every town in this country should employ an official piper - to be wheeled out for ceremonial functions, but mostly for pest control purposes.

Toni,

Music does seem to run in families, my mother was a talented player of both the violin and the piano and my father was a champion on the gramophone!

His father was a sailor on square-riggers and learned on shipboard; he became an accomplished player of the concertina, accordion, whistle, flute and pipes (not all at the same time!!).

The time for warm'n fozzy idealistic sentiments has well passed. Now is the time for being cruel to be kind. If we miss this opportunity it'll never present itself again. So, those who believe (seeking excuses) their kids aren't really that bad & they're actually good kids caught up in the wrong company better start getting a bit of moral discipline introduced into the family.
Of course, it depends on if they care or are more concerned with idealism.

yep we can just see the head of the rebels taking all his drugs to a table to be tested before selling it to the gullible teens. He will then throw out the 'dangerous' tablets. The Greens are idiotic.

Not as idiotic as you, runner!
It's the consumers, not the sellers, who would get their drugs tested and throw out the ones with dangerous contaminants.

Relying on danger and harsh penalties to change people's behaviour hasn't worked. It's time to try the Christian approach instead.

runner/individual morning my grump old mates, any chance at all we can see some drug victims are, much as we did when that age, are just following the crowd, just trying to fit in?
IF one was your child, would you take the rose colored glasses off and demand dealers in death, those that take bribes to hide them are a blot on our world? research, google drugs CIA 60,s and 70,s you will find those sons of unwed parents assisted in drug smuggling!
To support south American murdering dictators!
Too during that Asian war, the one they never wanted to win, to get America kids under control.
dealers in death are filth
Any thought letting kids die to improve the gene pool [Darwin Award] should be reversed and target those who think like that

Obviously most here have not visited Singapore or have been to blinded to ask why the place is so safe.

IF one was your child, would you take the rose colored glasses off and demand dealers in death,
Belly,
For one I don't have rose-coloured glasses & I would not support my child past the first couple of drug-induced episodes.
If only more parents were less emotional about bad kids as they are about the good ones ,the overdose problem would soon abate. If I had my way I'd sack the heads of Universities & schools were drugs are found & also sack the bureaucrats who prevent action against drugs.
Since legal penalties for drug abuse are so lenient, nature found a better way of cleaning the gene pool. Medicos attending overdose cases should not get paid for their time.

//Medicos attending overdose cases should not get paid for their time.//

Yes they should. Whatever happened to the notion of fair day's pay for a fair day's work? Why should we punish medical professionals for other people's misdeeds? And just how is dudding doctors on their pay supposed to discourage any junkie from abusing drugs?

Without doubt one of the most nonsensical policy suggestions I've ever heard.... if only alcohol was banned along with all the other drugs that make people idiots.

Toni lavis,
I did say overdose cases, not accidents. If I have an accident & have no Ambulance subscription then I let you guess where that leaves me. If drug abusers want help after a stupidity induced drug overdose, here, I'll write it again just for you, overdose then they should subscribe to the service if they want help.
Most acohol consumers are working & therefore most likely have an Ambulance subscription.
With alcohol you what you're letting yourself in for if you go over the limit, with drugs you simply don't know how things will turn out & if you're too stupid not to be aware of this risk then yes you might just do us all a favour by overdosing.

Not easy is it, think about children who find mum and dads stash, do we not send Ambos to them.
First time users who need help to stay alive?
Fact is hard drugs are called that for a reason, not understanding all users are not filth or drop outs is no exscuse.
Not taking in to account the impacts of dirty money have on our law and courts is no reason to ever call for a let them die policy
How about the impact on the kids in truly drop out households

How about the impact on the kids in truly drop out households
Belly,
I hear you but thus far neither side of politics has done anything to curb this dreadful situation & if they ever decided to address the problem, the voters would not support it because it'd mean sacrificing some miniscule amount of extra tax.
No, much easier to watch the footy & sell everything off from under their feet to overseas interests.
Why are there drop-out households in the first place ? A lack of caring for others is a big factor besides lack of discipline & responsibility. Australian TV alone is enough to drive people to drink & Centrelink rewards to drop-outs.
Centrelink should take over the daily expenses for the kids instead of giving the money to the drop-kick parents. Why not have a scheme that uses the funds witheld to properly feed the kids at school ?
The one question we need to get an answer to is why do people get into drugs in the first place ? I think the entertainment industry needs to be investigated.
Everyone wants a solution but when a solution is offered it gets rejected. National service is one of them.

individual boy you drag some big issues center stage and throw them at the feet of drug use, just maybe the only thing they have in common is they all are symptoms of a bigger problem.
Yes not enough is done world wide, to stop drug use
Look at the murders in Mexico and central American country's, could it just be that dirty money paid to dirty officials, stops true action?

English drug-traffickers pushed opium in China and now China is a major source of precursor chemicals necessary for the production of cocaine, heroin, MDMA and crystal methamphetamine. British opium trade followed the collapse of rum Corps in NSW and the alcoholic violence and flogging by military police . Tobacco taxes for deadly nicotine drugs flow into banks while CBA handled money laundering back to China. Some drugs are mixed with sugar the obesity poison using fertiliser to destroy the Barrier reef.

could it just be that dirty money paid to dirty officials, stops true action?
Belly,
That certainly appears to be the case in Australia but not just on drugs, LG contracts & good positions too.

Ball propellant is 40 to 70 percent nitrocellulose and 10 to 60 percent nitroglycerin replacing cordite in bullets. It's often used for shooting roos , bikies , wives and kids. It's addictive particularly in US which gave Australia bike gangs , marijuana and shoot-outs.

nicknamenick,

About up to your usual standard, there has never been cordite in bullets.

Thanks yes it's up to my usual.
"Cordite was used initially in the .303 British, Mark I and II, standard rifle cartridge between 1891 and 1915;
Canadian Explosives Limited was formed in 1910 to produce rifle cordite, at its Beloeil factory, for the Quebec Arsenal. The works at MoS Drungans (Dumfries) produced guncotton that was converted to cordite at MoS Dalbeattie (triple-base cordite) and at MoS Powfoot (monobase granulated guncotton for small-arms). "

nicknamenick never the less looking back on past wrongs will not fix today's ones.
dealing in death will remain lucrative until we make penalty's to harsh to risk it

//I did say overdose cases, not accidents.//

Yes, I know. I didn't say accidents. At all. Are you illiterate or dyslexic or something?

//here, I'll write it again just for you, overdose then they should subscribe to the service if they want help.//

That wasn't what you wrote last time. What you wrote, and I quote, was:

//Medicos attending overdose cases should not get paid for their time.//

Now you seem to be saying they should be paid for their time, and that the junkies should stump up the costs. At this point, I have no idea what you're actually in favour of, or against... I suspect it will have changed again by the time you respond to this post. Alcohol does tend to have a limiting effect on people's attention spans.

I recommend trying to make more sense in future, because we cannot read your mind.

Dead right Belly. Trafficking in guns and rifle possession have to be dealt with as in Indonesian law enforcement . Firing squad at midnight on a deserted island.

Some times you just must let the silliness of some posts pass
that any one would not want to save the life of a drug victim is not part of my thinking.
If enough of us demanded it hard drugs would dry up, wanting it includes taking all wealth every cent, from convicted persons, and building new homes to house them forever, prisons
NSW Government may have a point, they will not test pills at rave party's.
Because they say it may look like they approve of taking them and the deaths they bring

"the life of a drug victim"
please explain.

//Medicos attending overdose cases should not get paid for their time.//
Toni Lavis,
what don't you understand by overdose cases should not be attended unless the idiots pay for the service ?

//NSW Government may have a point, they will not test pills at rave party's.
Because they say it may look like they approve of taking them and the deaths they bring//

Well then, I suppose we should immediately cease all testing of alcoholic beverages for toxic contaminants lest it send the wrong message that the State Government approve of drinking and the deaths it brings.

No?

I don't think so either, actually. It gives me great deal of peace of mind to know that the only thing in my beer with the potential to blind (literally) me is the ethanol itself.

We shouldn't let our well-intentioned desires to discourage people from poisoning themselves stand in the way of proven measures that will help prevent people poisoning themselves.

//what don't you understand by overdose cases should not be attended unless the idiots pay for the service ?//

That's not what you said.

Anyone else who doesn't get the gist & needs every bit spelled out precisely ? Whatever happened to a bit of imagination ?

Ever given any consideration to just saying what you mean and meaning what you say, individual?

Certainly seems less bother to me than not meaning what you say and making folks play guessing games to figure out what you really mean.

Toni Lavis,
If everything is laid out so the reader doesn't have to use their imagination & think then the words have no impact, similar to water off a duck's back which in turn does nothing to help in suggesting/finding solutions. It becomes nothing more than a Left vs Right slanging match.
In a word, with the care factor removed a discussion becomes pointless rather quickly.

nnn,

Thanks yes it's up to my usual.
"Cordite was used initially in the .303 British, Mark I and II, standard rifle cartridge between 1891 and 1915;
Canadian Explosives Limited was formed in 1910 to produce rifle cordite, at its Beloeil factory, for the Quebec Arsenal. The works at MoS Drungans (Dumfries) produced guncotton that was converted to cordite at MoS Dalbeattie (triple-base cordite) and at MoS Powfoot (monobase granulated guncotton for small-arms). "

Very erudite, but there was never cordite in the bullets; cordite was used, as you say, as the propellent in the cartridge, the propellant pushes the metal bullet out of the barrel.
The bullet is the bit that flies through the air after the cordite explodes and sends it on its way.

Compre?

I guessed you may have meant that and thought "surely he's not that pedantic". So you ask for a box of bullets and the bloke pulls out the pointy bits and charges you $50. The pile of powder is extra , bring your own shopping bag.

Tony Lavis while we differ on hard drugs we have agreed on others, and a lot of the world, even some of Trumps America agrees and has acted weed should be legal
You will not convince me, after the rise of ice,hard drugs should be
Once I thought maybe less deaths no criminal involvement, no bent law or politicians being paid, made it a possibility.
ICE stopped that, right across our country its victims ruin lives including their own we can if we try, [but we will not] stop this trade
Millions of dead users, and millions of rich murderers are a product of drugs

Millions of dead users, and millions of rich murderers are a product of drugs
Belly,
Yes & just imagine what people are going to be like in the near future after they had to be asked first for permission to change their nappies at age 18 months ? Or those who were 'entitled' to spend their younger days in the indisciplined environment of Unis where they learnt nothing, or after marijuana has been legalised for some time & people walk in our midst with half-cooked brains, or stealing becomes legal etc etc. Yes this is a ramble but it's based on years of evidence of pussy-footing with the bad & useless & the persecution of those who think, care & provide. Who were the ones pushing for all this 'Freedom' & "individual Rights' ? From whichever angle you look at it, these pushers were always on the Left. And, in Australia it wasn't Conservatives who got rid of National Service, the only institution that gave the Nation some stability ?

nnn,

You're right again, ask for bullets and you get a box of bullets; from around $25 and up to $80/100.
Powder, cartridge cases and primers are sold seperately.
As an example, Safari Firearms in Old
.http://www.safarifirearms.com.au/collections/speer-bullets

//You're right again, ask for bullets and you get a box of bullets; from around $25 and up to $80/100.//

Sounds a bit steep for choc-coated bits of liqourice if you ask me. Just how large a box are we talking here?

Normal people say "bullets".
'Military-grade bullets' used in Newcastle bikie shootings: police.
..police, tendered to the Supreme Court in Sydney on Thursday, reveals a high-powered rifle with "military-grade" .223-calibre rounds was used ."

Is Mise , our on the spot gunman. "Police say a .223 bullet, ball-propellant , firing cap and brass cartridge was used by impacting the firing pin on the rifle ammunition causing forward momentum in the general direction of the alleged adult target through the rifled barrel at quite a fast speed and costing about 83 cents with GST."

Are people less dead when shot with different calibre ammunition ?
Are people less stupid if they use slightly less lethal drugs ?

High explosive bullets packed with ice / heroin certainly make you groggy. "And, in Australia it wasn't Conservatives who got rid of National Service, the only institution that gave the Nation some stability ?"
Conservatives don't give stability , ask Pauline and her 1 One Nation team member. National Service took 237000 boys out of 804000 who registered and the ballot-out boys may have been stable. They should all have volunteered to defend the nation threatened by the invading 19 million Vietcong but didn't , lest we forget.

I didn't say the Conservatives give stability, I said it wasn't them who god rid of it or a better term would be a stabilising factor.
i didn't think it'd still be interpreted as Military Service after stating Non military service here on OLO countless times. Have some imagination for crying out loud.
Let me say it again CLEARLY. We need a Non-Military National service for people 18-20 or 19-21. So, from now on national service has nothing to do with Military ok ? It certainly can be a stepping stone into the military if they can see themselves finding a carrer in the Defence Forces.
What have so many of you against giving young people a chance of being more switched on then you ?

"And, in Australia it wasn't Conservatives who got rid of National Service, the only institution that gave the Nation some stability ?"
Sorry I just was thinking that getting rid of NS was about getting rid of NS with bullets / cartridges/ cordite and stuff like that 1972. My imagination is shot with all the tobacco , marijuana and propellant fumes . Australia was built by convict service , rum , sodomy and the lash.

Some of us do not need drugs to seem to have a fried brain.
And how did national service and guns get a run?
Some of us prove with every word they right politicians are not that bad after all.
Ask your local Ambo about drugs.
Then the mum and dad of a dead drug user what they think

Mums and Dads grieve for suicide which can claim to be the victim of mental disorder / unbearable stress . Rarely is a deadly drug forced into a person . "Drug victim" is bending words.

Then the mum and dad of a dead drug user what they think
Belly,
Deep down they probably think about where they went wrong & are deeply envious of those parents whose kids did not get into drugs.
More often than not it's not the parents' fault anyway, it's the school peer pressure environment,
our incredibly dumb entertainment industry, the incredibly dumb TV programming, the incredibly dumb mentality of competition & the opportunistic looking for a dollar by the adults in everything kids want to turn to just to have some fun.
The PC morons, the moron bureaucrats, the fun police, the safety freaks in all I'd guess the drug taking of the young is directly attributable to adults who want control but are too stupid to know how to. The baby boomers have had it too good & that made them fail their children big time.

I lived in a very different world and still do indy, have seen kids in my care turn from great to the other end of the spectrum.
They just wanted to have fun, and fell in with the wrong crowd
It happens
The answer to some dealing in death is not to celebrate those deaths
It may be in laws that respect them more than the dealers

destruction of the family unit by marxist has done more to contribute to kids getting on drugs then any other cause. Vast majority of takers have no active father on the scene.

runner any chance you can come along on the next pig hunt? you seem to find things no one else can see with ease
These Marxists, about 60 years ago they seemed to exist but how do you find them these days?
Love the thought the extreme right, that seems to be you too mate, can find phantoms to flog any one or thing in the target zone with Marxists!
Mostly inhabit jungles as very very small anti government groups or in some cases the minds of a very few who create their own non-existent,monsters

Belly,

Think Watermelons.

These Marxists, about 60 years ago they seemed to exist but how do you find them these days?
Belly,
The majority of them are still very common today & found in the Leftist political parties, in Universities, in the Public Service & quite a number of them are in private sector businesses that are engaged in Govt funded schemes & the more fanatical groups are found on a literally hourly basis in the media.
The y have the ability to hide in plain sight because when you have 50 of them in a crowd of 100 you can only identify them by listening to them.

Belly,

Try this link,
http://www.marxismconference.org

seems that that there might be just a few Marxists around.

Come to think of it, wasn't it the left side of society that gave us PC among all the other non-sensical idiocies such as don't discipline kids, ask 18 moths olds for permission to change their nappies, don't call them Babies instead call them Theybies etc etc etc etc ?
Call lazy people some kind of whatever challenged, whichever happens to be furthest from the truth & on & on the Leftist nonsense goes.

IsMise/Indy my thanks, not often the right of reality crowd demolish there own views for me.
Right now, worldwide, the very right is far more a danger than Marxists ever had been.
Truth is discarded to lay in the gutter along with any thought of a caring society.
Victim of very rich men and women intent on becoming even richer by reducing wages and living conditions of the rest of us.
While demanding we consume more from our lesser income to make them even richer

Belly,
Exploitation is a dreadful trait when it's carried out at the expense of others. Exploitation is the mongrel side effect of opportunism. Exploitation of a situation or a product be it natural or otherwise, for the purpose of common good is admirable.
Everything is down to the right perspective, from the decent use of technology to misuse, from an opportunity to do something good to an opportunistic exploitation of someones' misfortune.
In my book drug dealers & the abusers of their product are simply both stupid & of bad character. They should not get priority in Ambulance attendance or in Hospitals. Our society would unquestionably be better without them.
The present needles in fruits dread must be dealt with ver,very harshly even though the culprits may be underaged. They don't know the impact of their stupidity but they certainly are totally & fully aware of their action. They must be denied any activity that could aid them in planning further such sabotage. Put them into an institution for the next three years with no access to the internet because this is how they get those ideas & the nessecary encouragement. Put them into a Convent if need be just keep them out of circulation.

individual my slant on drug users is far different than yours,, for that I am pleased.
I see kids wanting to be part of some thing falling and not being able to get up.
As for those who deal in drugs, dare I? need I? could name groups who are known traffickers and know if I did you would agree.
But the 1970,s journalism I spoke of earlier in the thread investigative journalism, near gave the names, of very rich men
Who live still even richer, and never faced prosecution.
In your opinion can we ever stop drugs?
If as I do you think truly getting tough can do it then why have we not done it.

Belly,

"IsMise/Indy my thanks, not often the right of reality crowd demolish there own views for me."

Get real.

In your opinion can we ever stop drugs?
Belly,
NO ! What we can do is to ignore drug abusers. Repeat abusers not users of necessary drugs.
Another effective tactic to curb drug abuse is to not attend to overdosing. I know this is extreme but so will be the degredation of our society if we don't stop pussy-footing.
One of the first steps is better education by only employing teachers who have completed Non Military national service. That will give us some assurance that they have a reasonably healthy mentality to pass onto the students.
Once the first Generation of national service recruits get back into mainstream the flow-on effect of a better mentality will be a positive one from day 1.
Public servants found to facilitate the importation of prohibited or recreational drugs should be jailed with a cyanide capsule on a small shelf in their cell.
The abuse of recreational drugs & subsequent costs to us taxpayers would be greatly reduced within a very short time.

This morning a headline in the SMH is worth reading, in relation to this thread.
It tells us the farm at the center of the strawberry contamination, a crime in its self that demands stronger law enforcement, is owned by a suspected drug runner.
My point here is how the wealth, if in this case the charge is true, is behind some very very rich people.
Behind them too are a lot of dead users, yes we can defeat hard drugs, take all assets from convicted persons and put them behind bars

Belly,
I don't know if that mindless devoid of emotion moron that mowed down those emus recently was on drugs or not.
Ten years in a rough klink may, just may sort him out & if he wasn't on drugs the same treatment should apply.
Do you think this would be excessive ?
You draw attention to the wealth of drug dealers. The acquire such wealth because they have no emotion about the effect of their product. The main thing is to make money. Well, there are many outfits that continuously push for more money & they're on the Govt's side, they're the economists, the enterpeneurs, the betting & gambling outfits. Why is this ? Because we have Govts which fail to create economies that enables people to make the kind of living that is perpetually drummed into us by media etc, we should be aspiring to.
So, when the legal trade fails, people go for the illegal, there's no science in that. There aren't any real deterrents so why not take the chance ? The more money these people have the more they spend & pay GST. Govt sanctioned negative gearing allows them to reduce the taxes they pay so is it any wonder they acquire so much wealth ? The legal means offer no incentive only disincentive.
The ones who pay the price are the decent folk & as far as the mindless drug abusers go hopefully the gene pool keeps on cleansing itself.

individual we come close to total agreement here, only thing I can not agree with is that foul thing who drove over the Emu,s need not have been on drugs, some of us are very low in real life.
My view and gee I hope most think so, is we must be a nanny state,that the filthy trade hurts far too many worldwide, innocent family suffer too.
And that it is a blot on society to know its money buys and sells justice/power and protection.
In other country's it buys governments
Mexico is a mess, its dead out number some countrys population all down to a filthy trade
ICE is ripping the guts out of rural NSW at least if not all of the country

Been reading online after my last post about ICE and its affects on Rural towns, nightmare stuff.
Unlike Heroin and cocaine it can be made by the average person with just a bit of know how, and it destroys lives every day

Belly,
The only thing filthier than the drugs is the mentality of those who create the demand.
Many high profile personalities & the entertainment confused sex outfit are a reliable source of money for the dealers.
Drugs got the Romans & Greeks to their knees & now it's the Westerners black, white & brindle.

individual in fact those you target as users are often the suppliers.
And those who create the need? not sure any of us can name them I will try.
The need to be part of some thing, a wish to get that some thing else out of life, the quite wrong thought big brother/sister/ the cool people do it so I want to.
IF we knew who made it salable we would have stopped it long ago.
Only true harsh even cruel financial and prison hurt will stop it.
ice must be stopped it kills hourly

have a look at the countries that don't have a drug problem and see what they do that is different.

Is Mise,
They have Laws which lawyers caren't allowed to distort. It doesn't get any clearer than when flying into Singapore where you read a pamphlet that gives you a final chance to discard any drugs before you disembark.
Bali is the same yet of all people Australians still get caught with drugs ?? What does that say for discipline & mentality here ?
A non-military national Service would severely curb drug abuse & that is an iron-cld guarantee.
Force lawyers to follow the Law instead of exploiting it. Police too need to be allowed to make moral judgement in the heat of the moment without fear of backlash.
Anyone who doesn't like that can always opt to be a decent citizen.

GREED Ismise it drives some to get involved never find me calling for death as they did in Bali, but not against life if it is needed
Individual, ok know your thoughts on national service.
Just maybe now you have backed away from it being military we can nearly agree.
Some will brand me cruel and uncaring, some traitor, but those on long term unemployment,not as a form of punishment, could benefit from a job, in the service of the community.
Why not? we could give hope to some without it, being unemployed can hurt.
isolate rural jobs from the rush to privatize save the jobs for locals, some may even re enter school and learn to read ,a huge rural problem

rural jobs from the rush to privatize save the jobs for locals,
Belly,
You just hit on a really big issue with this. There are many competent people in the rural & remote indigenous communities who have the compete with 'qualified' people from the city for jobs. I can safely state that for every 'qualified' bureaucrat there'd be ½ doz ten times more competent locals but they don't get the position because they don't have those utterly meaningless, purely academic nonsense 'qualifications'. Who do these 'qualified' go & see if they are in a jam ? You guessed it, the locals ! These 'qualification' are nothing more than a mastering of bureaucratic jargon that helps them pull the wool over the eyes of those higher ranking bureaucrats back in the city so they don't wake up to the funding rorts.
Rural Australia would be much better off if the interference from the bureaucrats was curbed substantially. The funding required for pointless travel, accommodation & travel allowances is beyond the wildesd dreams of most voters. Drugs are brought into communities not the other way round !

Individual think you live in Queensland, once did briefly my self, it had a great scheme of rural works.
In times of stress it put money in to rural projects and employed farmers who had struggles with drought or prices.
It worked, community got roads and bridges farmers and others the chance they needed.
These days money not common sense rules, in NSW country jobs, once reserved for country folk and contracted out.
WE CAN change social security for the unemployed and get returns for the community.
We should know reform is always worth looking at.

Belly,
yes, Qld was going strong until Ahern opened the gate for Goss & the rest is history.

individual not every thing your current leader [my party] does fills me with joy.
But an enlightened country could even put work orders on SOME criminals rather than prison
And education could be called work if it helped some get on the right track
My stays at the Gold coast for work reasons often saw me stay in the cheaper places to save money, seeing even five dollar clock radios marked stolen from whatever motel , was informative, lot of far from Gold stuff there drugs the number one issue

Belly,
You & I must be some of the very few who are not abusing drugs if the response to this thread is anything to go by.
Note the lack of interest from the usual Left-Right denialists.

indy well here is a truth, I used grass, gave it up 40 years ago when I stopped smoking
Even, before then, took the wakey wakeys truck drivers then did, while driving trucks
Forgive me I was a kid then, not age in the head
You will note I have taken a stand here and in real life, you too will know the lives it destroys
Saw that in civil construction and road building, the leftist union stood [think about it] against on site testing.
imagine the workers on foot as 100 tonn earth movers speed past with a drug effected driver, believe me that was the case.
no drugs in the work place/on our roads/ or in our schools you would think that was ok, some fools do not

I , like a few others in the early 70's have tried a joint just for the experience, just as I had a sip of rasperry cordial with metho in a remote community. I did however baulk at consuming aftershave.
I am glad I did because I never had a second go but I needed to experience it so I wasn't totally ignorant about it all. i watched many dope addicts who beleived Marijuana didn't affect them.
One, a carpenter & his school teacher wife didn't appear to ever be sober.
I simply cannot fathom what people see in being spaced out. Be it drink or drugs. I have been inebriated countless times so much so that walking home was more like some weird new dance step. But, I have never gotten to a stage where I couldn't remember anything because I simply couldn't drink that much.
Nowadays there are very low alcohol beers & yet still tasty. Six Cooper's Ultralights or Schlossgolds a day keep the coppers away.

We have something in common I used grass as others did to relax only on weekends but did not even get close to the culture other users did.
Metho? gee saw old fashioned swag men, they existed in my youth, kill themselves on that.
One thing must be mentioned ,we both agree we tried it, so others who did, some just kids, who followed mum and dad, knew no better, may even not be able to read or write, started out without intention to get trapped.
Some times we must be cruel to be kind and being very cruel to drug dealers is a kindness to their victims.
PS swagmen still exist, not many but my days on road work saw Queenslander walk back and forth planting palm trees he keep the seed in a baby's pram he pushed it every inch of the way