I keep coming back to Basmallah.

I have nightmares about Basmallah.

View the clip:

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=924

Read the transcript:

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=924

What is happening to this poor kid.

The clip was made 5 years ago. Today Basmallah is an 8 year old.

Basmallah, wherever you are, I hope you overcome the abuse you have suffered and go on to lead a happy and prosperous life.

If any poster knows anything about Basmallah I hope they will post it here.

A JEWISH WOMAN INVITED THE PROPHET AND HIS COMPANIONS...and poisoned him.

Lets get to the background this remarkably SELECTIVEly portrayed event.

LOCATION: Khaybar (independant Jewish tribal centre and refuge from invading Muslims)

EVENT: Mohammad invaded Khaybar on the strenght of 'rumors' that they were seeking alliances against him.

He and his marauding 'companions' murdered the Jewish womans family, relatives and probably husband..

Shock horror.. when FORCED to accomodate Mohammad and his thugs, and serve them food... (can the humiliation be worse?) she adds some spice to the food.... now..I surely did not see that coming....duh.

YET... the sweet, soft, loving, gentle way these events are spoken of..and the clear unbridled abuse of this poor innocent child.... is something the Living God will not forget... I absolutely promise this in HIS NAME...

The level of evil inherrent in this video, and in those who produced it, is as bad as..if not worse than...that perpetrated by the Nazi's against Jews in Aushwitz.
AMEN.

BD,

My point in posting this was to establish whether anyone knew what had become of Basmallah.

The fact that the Muslim world is permeated with hatred for Jews is not news.

Steven

indeed. But that does not alter the fact that this inhumanity must be condemned to the uttermost whereever it raises its ugly head.

Yes... I'd like to know what happened to her also, but do you realistically think anyone on this forum will know?

The fact that "Muslim hate toward Jews' may not be news, but some here would argue that it is not in fact "Islamic"... yet I've argued repeatedly that it is (Surah 9:30, Mohammad's death bed words).

When we Christians 'brainwash' a child, (and I have to conede that bringing a child up in any tradition whether secular or religious, is 'brainwashing') we fill their minds with ideas such as God being a good shepherd, seeking lost sheep, with ideas of a Loving Father, who searches for those outside His grace.

Can you imagine if I had a small child and lets say.. PERICLES or..CJ Morgan.. who often criticize me here.. lets say I fill that childs head with ideas the Pericles, CJ, their children are PIGS and APES and deserve to be killed at the earliest opportunity, and that anyone doing that act is to be hailed as a national or religious hero......
yes.. it would not go down well.

The impact this video (and hence this thread) has on me is to boggle my mind as to why CJ and Pericles don't see such things as anything other than isolated cases of religious extremism, in no way reflective of the community at large, whereas this video/TV story would have been aired IN communities where I believe there would be little by way of dissent about the content.

So,... yes ask the question, 'where' is she. Hope we receive an answer.

PS r u in Melbuorne ? if so.. Sep 11, 11 am Parliament house.

Boaz, please, you are proving my point, only you don't see it.

>>Can you imagine if I had a small child and lets say... I fill that childs head with ideas that Pericles, CJ, their children are PIGS and APES and deserve to be killed at the earliest opportunity, and that anyone doing that act is to be hailed as a national or religious hero...<<

Shocking, I agree.

But the problem is, Boaz, that this activity is only carried out by religious fanatics. In everyday society, this does not happen. In everyday, normal, run-of-the-mill, workaday, humdrum Muslim households, this does not happen.

And the other side of the coin is that only other categories of religious fanatic believe that it is the normal procedure, and that therefore every Muslim is to be feared and hated.

Are you following me?

There are two types of people involved here. Normal people, who teach their children manners, respect and love. And religious fanatics, who teach their children hatred, disrespect and fear.

The "normal" category encompasses the vast majority of our population, Anglos, Greeks, Italians, Vietnamese, Chinese, Lebanese, Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Irish, South African, you name it.

But as we know, there are a few religious fanatics who are intent on spoiling it for the rest of us. And on this thread, interestingly, the cabal that spends most of its time dredging up insults to throw at their perceived enemies is, unfortunately, that which you represent.

The evangelical, one-eyed, self-righteous Christian fanatics.

One day, Boaz - trust me on this - something will happen in your life that will open your eyes to the fact that all you are doing here is fanning the flames of hatred. And that you are only ensuring that even more people will get hurt.

I only hope that the event that causes this to occur is not too painful. Because sometimes it can be.

Good comment Pericles,

I researched the topic and found many sites educating children to hate the other whether its a Muslim, Christian or Jewish. I agree with Steven its child abuse and have to stop.
Peace,

sadly its not only the religious that hold old hate and fear
( a good friend of mine is third generation Australian lebaneese and declares he is not religious_his father is a Drew ) but, my good friend spits as he mentions the word 'Israel' or 'Jewish' not one minute after he declares decorum a necessary and therefore permanent factor in ALL social interaction between civilized man.(Hmmmm?)

Let's get something straight here.

In 2007 most Muslim children are taught to hate Jews just as most Christian children were taught to hate Jews until a few decades ago. In that sense most Muslim children are taught the same drivel that Basmallah was coached into reciting on IQRAA TV. IQRAA TV, BTW, calls itself a specifically Muslim TV station.

What most people don't do is make a spectacle of their children on TV.

Apologists for Islam say that hatred for Jews is not part of Islam. They call it a "cultural practice" or blame it on Israel or say only a minority of Muslims hate Jews. My answer is that as a matter of plain fact hatred for Jews is rife throughout the Muslim world. Even non-religious people who grow up in a Muslim culture tend to hate Jews.

The only factor that distinguishes Basmallah from most other Muslim children is her appearance on TV.

Spare me the myth of a golden age in which Jews and Muslims lived side by side in harmony. There were times and places when Jews in Dar-ul-Islam were able to flourish. The same is true of Jews in Europe. But, by and large, Muslims treated kafirs as badly as Christians treated non-Christians.

What finally tipped the scales in favour of Europe was not that Christians got kinder but the emergence of a secular society in which the functions of religion and state were separated.

All that being said I do want to know what became of Basmallah. I have been writing to journalists in various parts of the world but have yet to receive a reply.

Pericles. I understand your point, no problem. But there are a few holes in it.

[And the other side of the coin is that only other categories of religious fanatic believe that it is the normal procedure, and that therefore EVERY Muslim is to be feared and hated.]

"EVERY"? have never said it nor will I.

I'm not interested in drumming up hate toward all Muslims, if I was, I'd not have Muslims friends or acquaintances, nor would I treat them warmly on a personal level.

Where I struggle with your analogies, is -they fail to recognize the core of the problem. I've often quoted 'National Socialism' as an ideology, where, by your reasoning, my criticism of their anti semitic ideas would be "engendering hate of ALL peaceful everyday National Socialists" (or 'Germans' to tighten the analogy)

Now..follow the finger.. the f i n g e r ... don't you see the problem here ?

I think you are saying "Islam is a much better idea_set than National Socialism", but I say its worse.

You are basically saying "Don't criticize an idea, if lots of people follow it, because you might make others hate them"

Now that is rather weak and illogical.

RED MOSQUE by allowing the 'ideas' of Islam to run free in Pakistan, and after just ONE act of reigning in of fanatics at one mosque, we have people popping out of the woodwork (as promised) and blowing themselves and others up all over the country.

So, unfortunately, one cannot condemn the radicals without condemning the ideas which drive them.

STEVEN... I'm nearly 60 and have never in my life been 'taught' to hate Jews, now that goes back quite a few 'decades'. If you make statements like that, please substantiate them for Australia, but without reference to the KKK or Aryan Brotherhood.
I also suggest that in the whole of evangelical Christianity the only emotion taught about Jews is one of affection.
Luther was a long time ago, and on his later life anti semitism, he was clearly misguided.

FH... how about Wednesday for our meeting ?

I suspect that whereever Basmallah is, and may her acting career prosper, she will do less harm that Erik Prince of Blackwater?

"And what’s really frightening is that you have a man in Erik Prince, who is a neo-crusader, a Christian supremacist, who has been given over a half a billion dollars in federal contracts, and that's not to mention his black contracts, his secret contracts, his contracts with foreign friendly governments like Jordan. This is a man who espouses Christian supremacy, and he has been given, essentially, allowed to create a private army to defend Christendom around the world against secularists and Muslims and others, and has really been brought into the fold. He refers to Blackwater as the sort of FedEx of the Pentagon. He says if you really want a package to get somewhere, do you go with the postal service or do you go with FedEx? This is how these people view themselves. And it embodies everything that President Eisenhower prophesied would happen with the rise of an unchecked military-industrial complex. You have it all in Blackwater."

achenne1

And your point is?

That is exactly the problem, Boaz.

>>I'm not interested in drumming up hate toward all Muslims<<

But that is precisely what you are doing, whether you are "interested" in it or not. At every opportunity, you harangue, lecture, berate, rant, preach and sermonize on the theme that Islam is evil.

This determination of yours can have only two results. In Muslims, it will generate concerns that they are being persecuted by Christians. In a certain class of non-Muslims, it will provide the stimulus to hate that they otherwise do not possess, encouraging them to see Muslims as being different, and therefore dangerous.

>>I've often quoted 'National Socialism' as an ideology, where, by your reasoning, my criticism of their anti semitic ideas would be "engendering hate of ALL peaceful everyday National Socialists"<<

You see? Even now, you are equating Islam with Hitler and the Nazis. And yet you still insist that you are "not interested in drumming up hate toward all Muslims".

>>I think you are saying "Islam is a much better idea_set than National Socialism", but I say its worse.<<

You just can't resist it, can you? Not content with equating them, you just have to go one step further. Islam, according to Boaz, is worse than Hitler's Nazis.

Even so, you still say that you cannot see that this is likely to upset people? Does it not occur to you that people might resent being described in this way? Does it not occur to you that you are providing racist thugs with the intellectual excuse they need to justify violence?

>>You are basically saying "Don't criticize an idea, if lots of people follow it, because you might make others hate them"<<

No, Boaz. I am saying that you are inciting hatred in others not by "criticism", but by a constant stream of vilification and denunciation.

It simply isn't on. You should take a good hard look at your actions, and try to be a little more honest with yourself about what you are doing.

My real point, stevenimeyer, is that one can argue about fundamentalist religious hatred and show that it serves both the US (& its puppy, Australia) & Islamic terrorists as fuel to defend the real stake holders in the current conflicts. If you believe it is a "religious conflict" then stop reading & go back to praying & hating. I would say then that you have not only fallen for the propaganda but have become an eager camp follower & a propadandist yourself. A worry I would say.

It is a sad fact that race is a social construct. Look it up on wikipedia. At base we are all people, with the same DNA. Religion can be a private matter but can be also just a tool to manipulate people like you. So far as I can make out, the basic message of all religions is humanistic, but many people take delight in scrutinising the particular bits of very ancient texts to suit their purposes. We can find justification in the Old Testament for practically any atrocity. It gives me permission to sell my daughters as slaves and to buy slaves from neighbouring countries for instance. If you are worried by the propaganda issuing from one small child's lips & use it to try incite fear & hatred of Islam then you are no better than her exploiters. I accuse you of writing in bad faith.

achenne1 wrote:

>>It is a sad fact that race is a social construct.>>

What has race to do with this?

There is no such thing as a race of Muslims.

Do some people attack Islam as a cover for their racism?

Yes.

Do some people attack Israel as a cover for their Jew hatred?

Yes.

But Islam and Zionism are both belief systems. They are legitimate targets for attack. Attacking Islam no more "racist" than attacking Zionism is antisemitic.

>>So far as I can make out, the basic message of all religions is humanistic >>

To me, an atheist, religions are what their adherents do. Right now what Muslims do is propagate a message of hatred for Jews. Not all Muslims, but most. What it says in their so-called "holy book" is irrelevant to me.

Please spare me the glib, politically correct rebuttals:

--It's only a small minority.

--It's only because of Israel.

--Once upon a time Jews and Muslims lived in harmony.

None of these stand up to scrutiny.

>>..it serves both the US (& its puppy, Australia) & Islamic terrorists as fuel to defend the real stake holders in the current conflicts. >>

Do some interest groups try to use Muslim cannon fodder to their own advantage?

Obviously.

But that does not alter the fact that the teaching of Imams across the world create that cannon fodder. If not an actually majority of Imams, certainly more than a tiny minority. I invite you to walk into the Finsbury Mosque in London and see on sale the very books the Nazis used to demonise Jews. I have seen similar books on sale here in Melbourne.

Even serious Muslim scholars no longer contest the fact that Jew hatred pervades much of the Muslim world. Surveys such as those by Pew global confirm it.

Telling it like it is does not make me a propagandist. Denying what is plain to see makes you a propagandist.

But I am still interested in what has become of the now 8 year old Basmallah

why just Basmallah
why just this specific child
im just a little confused
when there is so much that can be done with your energy if you are finding no relief with your efforts
have you been worrying for five years
or is this a sudden re-awakening/good cause thing?
yes i did view the video
and yes i think its a terrible modern version of red riding hood_social control stuff
we havent changed much in thousands of years, lucky we get to SEE all the mess we are making now, that cant be worse worse_mabye it will all sort out in the next 90 years....(its taken us thousands to get to here) that will give us humans 10 years to get it together down in the South Pole and save ourselves, ha

Steven,

I am not sure where to start but I have many Jewish friends. I didn't grow to hate anyone or anything and only taught my chidlren to understand and tolerate others. I still believe that I am a muslim and many others who follow my faith do the same.

And last, teaching children hate is child abuse. I searched the internet and seems Israelis also are doing their version:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1153291980307

Every human regardless of their religious convictions, should act responsibly,

Peace,

Achenne1
Your diatribe against Steven and religion, and your highlighting of the possible value of a 'war on terror' for certain political interests, suggests strongly that you have an alternative.
Mind sharing with us what that 'alternative' belief system or political system 'is'?

Pericles.. ur a difficult one. Are you saying "A little bit of anti Nazi criticism is ok, but a lot is not"? because it sure sounds like it.

I assert that Islam is worse than National Socialism because:
a) When hitler died, so did National Socialism as a significant force.

b) When Mohammad died, Islam remained and grew, and connected the idea of the State to Allah, and the exclusive rule of Muslims of the world, with an outright threat against non Muslims.

Don't believe me?

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/YarkiiSvet.htm is worth a read, but if you consider this might be 'fabricated'..try this.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/peacefulreligion.htm
read the whole compilation of material straight from the Islamic sources. Notice what is said SPECIFICALLY about Jews and Christians over and over and over.

The problem here between us is this. I realize what drives the radical/serious Muslim mind, and you simply don't.

You cannot see the relevance of scanning through 'ancient documents' as a basis of understanding peoples current day motivation, which is like saying "I don't care about what kind of foundation it has, I like the look of the house so I'm buying it" -that is about the standard of your approach.

You have to make a choice "Islam is good" or.. "Islam is bad"

In order to make this choice, you should thoroughly research it, and test it for these qualities. The quotes above may assist you.

No, no, a thousand times no!

>>You have to make a choice "Islam is good" or.. "Islam is bad"<<

That is exactly what I will not do. It is entirely irrelevant.

Terrorism is not irrelevant. But the religion of those terrorists is definitely irrelevant.

Let's go back to Northern Ireland for a moment. One one side you had at various times the Official and Provisional IRA plus breakaway groups, on the other you had the UDF, the B Specials and sundry other minor factions. Both sides committed atrocities - kidnapping, torture, murder.

They were highly motivated by their concept of "religion", but you were not forced to decide that "Protestantism is good" or "Protestantism is bad", or even "Catholicism is good" or "Catholicism is bad".

All you needed to know was that "terrorism is bad".

The complaints of economic deprivation among Sri Lankan Tamils have many similarities to Catholics in Northern Ireland, but you don't have to decide "Hinduism is good" or "Hinduism is bad" to condemn the Tamil terrorists for the atrocities they commit.

>>The problem here between us is this. I realize what drives the radical/serious Muslim mind, and you simply don't<<

That's pretty arrogant. But it still does not give you licence to stir up hatred in the way that you do. Terrorism is a legitimate target for your fear, but Islam itself is not.

nothing is all good
or all bad
we have to sort it out together
its our only hope
like a giant big brother
he,he
and yes
not everyone will survive
same old same old
yin and yang
the good and the bad
but get rid of the evil
nice