Poker machines are in the news again.

Federal Independent MP Andrew Wilkie said last week that whistleblowers had revealed that Woolworths’ hotels kept databases of customers who gamble, including their habits and behaviours.

In the Northern Rivers (nsw) region, Woolworths owns the Westower Tavern, which has 30 gaming machines that earn an estimated annual profit of $1,812,832, and the South Tweed Tavern, which has 25 machines that earn $1,901,927 annual profit. (As a wider example).

The greens have a plan to eliminate poker machines altogether: Viz.

Under the plan, the Greens will make machine owners pay, by introducing a Commonwealth levy on pokie machines at a fixed price per machine.

1 Fill the state revenue shortfall, by using those levies for a Commonwealth compensation fund, paid out annually to states once they agree to phase out pokies
2 Freeze the pokies, by ensuring State Governments may only access the compensation fund once they commit to freezing pokies licenses
3 Put an end to pokies, by ensuring State Governments may only access the compensation fund as they phase out pokie machine licenses for
4 Call for a conscience vote on poker machines from all parties in the South Australian Parliament
5 Set a target to phase out all poker machines from pubs and clubs in South Australia over the next 5 years
6 Progressively increase the tax paid by the Adelaide Casino on their poker machines, in recognition of the monopoly created.

Will there be any changes under the above pressures of reform the industry?

“Federal Independent MP Andrew Wilkie said last week that whistleblowers had revealed that Woolworths’ hotels kept databases of customers who gamble, including their habits and behaviours.”

Did he say how they did this? How could Woolworths get a database on someone, somewhere who uses pokies? I know nothing about them, never use them; but I don't see how any information could be obtained from someone putting coins into a machine. And, I would take anything said by sour-puss Wilkie with a grain of salt.

As for the Greens wanting to do away with pokies – tell 'em they're dreamin'. There is too much money in them for politicians give up. The original anti-pokies (no other policies) man, Xenophon, has 30 something candidates lined up for the SA election on 17th March. The SA Hotels Association has been campaigning strongly against him, and his popularity is dropping rapidly from when the hysterical media had him down as the next premier.

Wilkie and Xenephon are a couple of miserable nannies who just want to stop people doing what the want to do.

Ttbn. Thank you.

I get a lot of my info re "Greens think", from a small net publication "econet daily".
You may wish to google it up.
It's where I gleaned the info for this thread.
The econet daily services a small but vocal greens clique, on the far north coast of nsw, centered on Byron Bay.

Your question; how did they get the personal info of patrons to their hotel (Woolworths), I have no idea. But if correct, that act is highly intrusive. I'm assuming as I do, there is a degree of truth in every rumour.

*...As for the Greens wanting to do away with pokies – tell 'em they're dreamin'. There is too much money in them for politicians give up...*

Is it that simple?

I actually think this is one social issue worth the fight. And of course your correct to say the enemy on this score, is the AHA.
But are they bigger and tougher than the tobacco industry, which lost a resounding battle on the cigarette reforms.

Would you personally like to see an end to poker machines?

*...Wilkie and Xenephon are a couple of miserable nannies who just want to stop people doing what the want to do...*

Or the other way to look at it, Wilkie and Xenophon are protectors of the unprotected.
Can that be all bad?

All the poker machines in Australia would make a good man made reef somewhere off the coast.
That way they'd be doing some good.

Come on fellers, think of those poor souls living in South Oz.

They have to go to the pubs & clubs, because they can't afford to keep the lights & air conditioning on at home in the windmill state.

While they are there don't they deserve the chance to strike it lucky, with a big win on the pokies? A big win is their only hope of raising enough cash to migrate to some where liveable, after paying their renewable power bill.

All they have left to live for is the dream of escaping. Surely you are not so cruel as to deny them that, as well as lighting.

Do away with pokies- No way!

What about those of us that do not play them? We currently go to clubs and enjoy all the amenities that the fools that play pokies pay for.

It's our right as citizens and an Aussie tradition.

As for pokies in pubs.

some one has to pay to keep publicans in the manner to which they are now accustomed and it helps to keep beer prices down.

Recently been dealing with a 59 year old man who has been unemployed 3 years, with no family support, living in cheap one room accommodation. The chap was diagnosed 12 months ago with dementia. In the past year he has accessed his superannuation, in two amounts, $10k, and finally the remaining $30k. The whole $40k was put through poker machines at a local hotel in less than 6 months

And that, Paul, is one of the big problems.

Some forms of gambling are banned because it's hard to keep track of the money, and the Government doesn't like that.

There are very few who ever end up in front after playing the pokies.

Many clubs and pubs would go out of business if it were not for pokies. More jobs gone. All because a few people can't control their gambling. It's the same old story: bugger up everyone's pleasure for a few losers who cannot live their own lives without meddling from Left wing politicians.

//it helps to keep beer prices down.//

But not as far down as buying beer from the bottle shop, and nowhere near as far down as brewing it yourself (which avoids the alcohol excise, which is hefty chunk of the cost of a beer). Also, brewing is a fun hobby and you can brew better beer than what you can buy in most pubs anyway.

//Many clubs and pubs would go out of business if it were not for pokies.//

Funny, they still have plenty of pubs and clubs in WA. Maybe their business models are successful because they're actually pleasant places to go with decent entertainment, rather than just being dank, gloomy caverns that constantly ring with the hideous cacophony of poker machine noises.

I've stopped going to my local club for that very reason. They used to have a nice beer garden - ripped out to make more room for pokies. They used to have live bands two nights a week - now they have a crap DJ one night a week.

The only other entertainment they have is gambling and a large television which, in defiance of the laws of probability, somehow always seems to be showing golf or rugby league (and if you're bored enough to watch televised golf or rugby league, it's probably time to end it all).

I have a television at home. I have beer at home. I could gamble from home, if it wasn't such a dull way to waste my money. If venues have nothing exciting to offer, then what the hell is the point of them?

I discussed my concerns with the club's 'entertainment manager' shortly before I stopped frequenting the place. I suggested that maybe a wider variety of entertainment might attract more patrons, or encourage existing ones to stay loyal. I specifically suggested a pinball machine because I'm a sucker for the things. He told me straight up that he would never support it because the space that would be taken up by pinball machine could be taken up by yet another pokie, and pokies are more profitable.

Mind you, this is a club - they're supposed to be not-for-profit enterprises that exist for the benefit of their members. So much for that idea, I guess. It's not like these guys are doing it tough, I get their annual report and they're making money hand over fist. And they already have at least a gross (144) of poker machines, yet they can't spare the room for one damn pinball machine to keep their patrons entertained?

Well bugger 'em then, if they're going to be like that. I was only two years into a five-year membership, they could have quite easily kept squeezing money out of me. Now I only ever go for the free stuff that my remaining membership entitles me too. I spend my money at a nicer club where the management don't have their heads up their arses (and they have a pinball machine, and a free jukebox. I even make donation via the pokies every now and then because I feel kind of guilty about the free jukebox).

I hope that the clubs and pubs who think that pokies and piss are all they require for a successful business model wake up to themselves before they find their patronage shrinking too drastically. It's cheaper to drink at a mate's place, we all have our own electronic gaming devices, and if clubs think that pokies offer an equally entertaining electronic gaming experience to that provided by a Playstation, or even just an old Atari... they're dreamin'

Maybe they'll figure it out in time, and start offering people things they can't get cheaper and better at home. The use of a pinball machine, perhaps. Or maybe some live music. Possibly a magician, they're always fun (especially if their tricks go wrong). In-house racing of small animals with wagering on the side, a form of gambling I'd happily back. Probably not topless bar wenches in this day and age, although…

Just something a bit more bloody interesting than a gross quantity of poker machines and a poor selection of beer.

There is another side to some of the clubs; the big brash RSL pokie palaces only legally exist because they have an RSL Sub-branch attached to them, and the "Old and the Bold" get a lot of benefits from the relationship.
Until the Government outlawed the practice my RSL used to issue a couple/three hundred dollars of 'Club Dollars" to all the sub-branch members each year.
We also get other perks like reimbursement of membership fees.
The subsidised funeral is still a goer but I won't live to enjoy that, still, it'll be a help.

There is more than one side to the issue, still, I'd be happy to see them go

//There is another side to some of the clubs; the big brash RSL pokie palaces only legally exist because they have an RSL Sub-branch attached to them, and the "Old and the Bold" get a lot of benefits from the relationship.//

The pokie dungeon that I boycotted was a Worker's Club. The nicer club I now frequent does not have RSL in the name, it's 'The Gallipoli Legion Club'. But they recite the Ode every day, and have a better collection of military memorabilia than I've seen anywhere outside a war memorial or museum, so I figure they must be involved with the RSL in some capacity. It's only a tiny little place, but I like it.

ttbn, could use the same argument to legalize heroin use, jobs for dealers, and a few irresponsible users buggering up the pleasure of the majority.

Issy, as I have said to you before, I'm a member of several clubs, including a number of RSL's. The Sub Branch is a not a club, but a registered charity, which derives benefit from the operation of the licenced club, trading as RSL Ltd. Usually that benefit is in the form of rent.
The smaller clubs have suffered due to declining patronage, the perception in older areas by young people that the RSL is "gods waiting room" is true, and they tend to cater for older people with bingo, raffles, old school entertainment etc. A lot of RSL's in the eastern side of Sydney have closed, there would be about 6 I could name.

On the other side of the coin, what I do and have done for a number of years, is a bit of voluntary work with crisis housing in inner Sydney, no big deal. The major cause of problems with older single people, which I come across, is not drugs, alcohol, gambling, besides the lack of family support, its mental illness.
The chap I mentioned, who done the little he had $40k, through the pokies, they were not his problem, although not a smart thing to do, blow your dosh in those things, his problem is dementia. he had a few run ins with others, like himself where he is living, although he is not a violent person himself, and the landlord told him and one other to get out. I have talked with the LL, a woman, and hopefully we can find him another affordable place in the area soon. He's hard to catch, he has no phone, and wanders around the streets during the day, catching buses and trains. I'll call at his place later this morning, wish me luck, can't get much for about $160/week.

p/s Those $8 lunches at some RSL's help a lot of people.

P1405

You sum up an important question; how to help people incapable of helping themselves.
Those people, who in the most part lay traps for themselves to fall into.
Your man demonstrates the aging process and its pitfalls "in toto".

While you engage in the mission of locating him, his view is on the opposite side of the coin. His view is to engage in the war of independence. A war that gets sillier and sillier as age progresses.

Those are a good part of the vulnerable, who will be exploited by the lure of poker machines. And it is a very important point to make, how easy it was for the PM venue to rob him in his vulnerable mental state. It's criminal, or should be seen as a crime, but isn't.
This plunder comes under the comfortable subject matter of ethics. What a joke!

Completely off topic but I just had to share it!!

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=Bar&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSmQEJmJ0CltXeyTcajQELEKjU2AQaBggVCAIIBQwLELCMpwgaYgpgCAMSKOkMxQvcBcQLywraBdYF5BHYBccXwTXCNZ82oTaqJ8A1xDXWNdU1ij4aMDn3mILGy1zGOmxe736vqTOghtodBtypDRXCHV24sxqEnAsLdr0fxl-HOsa9C5u04yAEDAsQjq7-CBoKCggIARIEq_1S4iAw&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdx43C4tbZAhVENrwKHaC1BrcQwg4IJigA&biw=820&bih=486#imgrc=SKDgN30wPNHodM:

Once Upon A Time
Australia had a society the was kept safe socially both morally and spiritually by the govt of the day.
A veritable fantasy land where everyone gave care to the disadvantaged and had a clear sense of right and wrong not that everyone practiced it but everyone respected it.
You couldn't even play cards for any sort of gain even in your own home.
Horse betting was limited to the track....save for SPs.
The aged pensioners were shielded from vices that were seen to undermine the social fabric
Then in the sixtys and seventies Australian's came of age in joining the world in f... you Jack, I'm alright! and proceeded to find any way and means to separate people from their money. Pensions that were'nt pensions any more. Even Howard had no problem in spruiking Telstra shares.
A country that lost it's self respect through it's gullibility and with the help of it's politicians
Now we have the Greens claiming that proceeds of gambling can be a good thing

These machines are a pestilence but we are stuck with them. Remember before Victorian pokies? Lygon Street was an organised criminal gambling den. We can only keep taxing them and if we dump them then criminals will again thrive.
What about we just let people gamble? Take drugs, drink alcohol? Take the criminal element away but ensure that users cannot drive or breed. I think the problem would then literally die out.

It appears to me Toni Lavis, from your post of how well they are doing financially, that the club you no longer frequent have done exactly what they wanted to do. By providing what the majority of their clientele want, they have a healthy business.

Personally I have no use for clubs, pubs or gambling. One motoring club I belong to has a lunch get together 3 or 4 times a year at an RSL or a pub, but that is it for me.

I have even given up the clubs monthly social drive to somewhere of interest. I got too sick of the huge numbers of learner drivers out on the weekends these days. I sympathise with families trying to give their kids the required 50 hours, or whatever it is today, before they can apply for their licence, but I'd prefer not to share our narrow country roads with them. With current fuel prices, it must be an expensive exercise for them.

One advantage of being an old fart, I can take my Sunday drives mid week, when most of the learners are at school.

Well I used to play them, but it became very very expensive and I had a loosing streak. However, the only way one can play a poker machine in a club, is be a member or temporary member, and one can put ones membership card in the machine, and one earns extra points to spend in the club. This is not the case with hotels who have usually less machines, and the payouts are generally not as frequent as they don't have the turnover a club has.

They also pay a tax to the government on their revenue, and like alcohol and cigarettes, the government makes a mint.

Without poker machines most of the licensed clubs could not exist. They give patrons cheaper meals, and drinks. Pay for promotions, and free raffles twice a week. Have bingo and also entertainment venues. Generally the clientele is conservative or are lawn bowlers.

I know in Armidale we have two larger clubs and a golf club with poker machines. Most hotels have them, and if Tasmania wants to get rid of them, that will be a shame for clubs and hotels.

I heard of the Woolworths scam, but I can't understand how it can be achieved. In a club, usually they keep an eye on punters, and one is usually reminded to take a break, etc. Or get the gambling site and reminder winning a jackpot is 1 million to one, etc. They can monitor the individual machines. I've seen people but hundreds in a machine, bet big and walk out with thousands. Pay $5.00 a go is not for me. But I have never been urged to play the machines by any staff, my problem is I'd win and then put the winnings back in different machines. But I got out with people. Now I don't go out but I buy lottery tickets on line. And if one is a gambler, they will find ways to gamble be it horses, dogs, kenoland, or poker on line.