On a brighter note, there are advances in appliances. LED lights are many times more efficient than fluoro or halogen lights. Cars are getting more efficient and petrol prices are driving market demand back to more efficient cars and ethanol levels are being raised in the fuel. People are buying more fuel-efficient heaters and washing machines.

Solar energy is getting cheaper to install and more efficient and effective.

Change is slow but there is change. The pace of change does need to speed up, but Demos, you do tend to get nihilistic on us.

There are so many ways we can all make a difference if only we don't give up. Once Australia shows a positive example, India and China will follow as they also want to do the right thing if they can afford it.

Good morning Saint. Don't you know that optimism and a belief in your fellow man gets you ridiculed around here? Too many people! The end is nigh! We're all gunna die! The rape of MOTHER earth!(link to expert).

In 30 years or less, when the sort of resources currently employed in the hydro-carbon energy sector are instead invested in renewables, where will the doomsayers be then? Demanding meteor shields? Locking up smokers? Banning moggies?

once you've grasped the fact that we are going to be totally dependent on renewables 'soon', the question becomes, when shall we change over?

now, and as fast as possible, are the moral answers. if gw is critically important, the moral answer may also be the survival answer.

ludwig goes on at length about the central problem of unchecked and unexamined growth, on the other gws thread. he's right, read it carefully. but he won't address the question of how to stop growth when politicians dare not even mention the problem. it's too hard for any ozzie, as the prospect of demanding democracy is simply beyond the cultural imagination.

it's not enough to cry out: "the sky is falling!" you have to follow up with: "..and so let's do something."

The other tip I picked up is the ionised fuel saver being sold on the market now. They are easily fitted on the lead to the carburettor and you can fit it in yourself, or cheap job by mechanic.

You can save from 15-29% on your fuel costs as it reduces you fuel consumption on your car. It actually cleans the fuel by ionising it, so it is cleaner for the environment.

One seller on the web in Australian made:

http://www.prozone.com.au

Ford Puma Saver:
http://www.speedydelivery.co.uk/easy-fuel-saver/ford-puma.shtml

US: Vortek Cyclone
http://www.vorteccyclone.com/savegas.html?gclid=CMGZ7uyRo40CFRX2ggodc14R6g

Just some more ways we can save on petrol and carbon emissions, and save on money. This is not an advertisement so shop around. These are for sale on eBay too.

There is an academic paper written on this by specialists.

My problem is that I cannot find the link to it.

It predicts that fossil fuels will go into decline before the crucial co2 levels are hit, thereby avoiding the most serious, but not all, consequences of global warming.

Can anyone provide a link to this paper please?

"either this is a science-based discussion, in which the accuracy of the predictions is paramount OR, as you tell us, it's all about politics;"

This is about politics, and risk management. From a scientific perspective you can just wait and see what happens, then you'll know the truth. From a political or risk management perspective that is absurd. Science is interested in the truth, politics is about our interests. Science can inform politics, but that doesn't mean politics should approach issues in such a detached way - or wait for certainty.