Today on ABC Radio National I have just heard Fran Kelly talk to Aboriginal Community members at Papunya in the Northern Territory .

They want the scourge of child abuse, violence, the results of alcoholism and poor health outcomes gone from their homelands and community . They want help .

All this in a community that has a permanent police presence.

What they are also distressed about is the thought that their land and society will be under threat by John Howard's removal of their permit system, for what appears no real reason other than to give us whites unlimited entry to what is their Aboriginal owned Land .

As a law abiding white man or woman owning land I can and do decide who can or cannot come through my front gate and affect my life and family , be it a house block or a million acres .

It is a gross violation of my Human Rights if I cannot... but then they are not legislated for in Australia are they ?

kjim, there is no such thing as human rights. there are political rights, which are those freedoms enjoyed by the masters of any society. in australia that group is the politicians guild.

the rest of us get along by keeping our heads down, not attracting the attention of the pollies. they won't bother us, as long as we don't threaten their comfortable position.

the first ozzies are not a significant group of voters and consequently don't play a role in oz political society, except occasionally as an 'issue'- something to talk about that doesn't need real action.

bad luck for them, but the pollies are just doing what comes natural. the structure of oz society leads to this result, which is why it just festers for a hundred-odd years now, and will continue. if you want a better result, you have to change society. i'm not holding my breath.

"As a law abiding white man or woman owning land I can and do decide who can or cannot come through my front gate and affect my life and family , be it a house block or a million acres ."
But I am not law abiding if I intefere with children on said property. My rights disappear when the law comes a knocking...

"for what appears no real reason other than to give us whites unlimited entry to what is their Aboriginal owned Land"
I actually can't see any logical reason for why Howard would want this? Its a furphy. Its more likely a political stunt for the upcoming election.

Howard has ignored Aboriginal people all the years he has been PM, and has consistently defunded sensible grass-roots programs to protect children. Now about 6 months before an election (which he knows he is likely to lose), he pulls this stunt, charging into Aboriginal communities on the pretext of caring about the kids... you're right, it doesn't make sense on this level, there are sadly not even many votes in Aboriginal well-being, so there logically has to be another agenda and I believe that amid all the confusion and controversy Howard will be quietly revoking land leases and securing mining companies' access to these locations. I haven't looked into this deeply yet, but that is my suspicion at this point, what do you all think

"I believe that amid all the confusion and controversy Howard will be quietly revoking land leases and securing mining companies' access to these locations"
Can't see how this would get around Native Tite laws either. Land leases are still subject to claims.

People enter our land all the time. They come and demand money (in the form of collections for charity), to do surveys (designed to try and sell you something) or they try to change your religion (those nicely dressed types who hunt in pairs).
We can ask them to leave and, if they do not, then we can sue for trespass.
Indigenous Australians also have the right to ask people to leave. There is a vast difference between that right and being told that, as an Australian citizen, there are parts of your own country on which you are not allowed to set foot because the people who live there have a different skin colour.
One of the many causes of the current situation in indigenous communities is that they have been encouraged to be separate and feel different. We and they have been told that this is the only way they can preserve their culture and lifestyle and language. By failing to ask the children to learn English we fail to provide them with the basic tool to fully participate in Australian society.
The same is true of other ethnic groupings in Australia, although at present it is to a somewhat lesser extent. However if we allow and indeed encourage such separatism then we have to acknowledge the consequences.
If people could accept the need for integration we might actually manage to keep more culture, lifestyle and language than we will if this sorry state of affairs is allowed to continue. Rather than criticise the actions taken we should support them and make demands for more integration so that those involved can fully participate in Australian society. Past policies have failed in part because we have failed to integrate groups as opposed to individuals.
Present policies will fail if we keep getting negative comments and a failure to cooperate from those who have made a living out of being 'activists'.

I believe John Howard has done the right thing in acting toughly in this case. It was reported that a lot of the men in these communities spend the day drinking and it appears the mothers are also drunk or else cant defend their children from these men. Its like if a husband and wife in any society are constantly having drunken parties where the mother and father are drunk and there are drunken men constantly roaming around when there are little girls in the house the outcome is usually sexual assault of the children.
In these Aboriginal societies where there is this mass drunkenness on a tribal scale with the exception of a minority, the sexual assaults on young girls is on a massive scale and out of control. The aboriginies have had decades to address this problem in their tribes but they have failed to protect their children and so the children must be protected by the authorities of the country. This is just mass predatory rape of defenceless children.

SHAME TO THESE ABORIGINAL COMMUNITIES FOR ALLOWING THIS TO HAPPEN TO THEIR CHILDREN. Stop blaming the white people and take some responsibility.

When are the men in these tribes going to stand up and lead their people with pride and diginity instead of spending the day drinking and depending on welfare. The racism card doesn’t wash anymore. How do you explain all the other races here who get jobs and make a good life for themselves. The days of living in the stoneage like these people want to do is long gone, history has turned the page. Its their non acceptance of the reality of this that is at the root of all their problems. Blaming the white man after 200years is not going to solve any of their problems. Only they can stand up and lead themselves out of the past and into the future. Making sure their children go to school would be a good start.

Communicat ,

How do you propose to convince our First Nation descendants that the very people whose white ancestors possibly pillaged their land and Sacred Religious Sites [and as miners are still doing it] ,raped and murdered their families, stole many of their children, not all that long ago, are all good people with ONLY their interests at heart and that they should invite them into their homes for a cup of tea and a yarn to work out the best way to get the job done ?

Howard's absolute inability as a leader to genuinely say "Sorry" to Aboriginal People for the ongoing worst aspects of White Australia's Invasion,Settlement and Dispossession leaves him and his plan on shaky ground and all Australians with important unfinished business as a Nation .

With Army and Police marching in unannounced, Hard won Land Titles now insecure ; the huge historic policy vacuum that has represented Howard and his squatter mates' thinking on Aboriginal Affairs is all too evident .

Will this be another ugly chapter in our Black Armband History or will the wise men of our nation ,many whom are black and are the recepients of Government[s] abuse finally be listened too before it is too late?

Point of order on the separatist myth.

White government created many of the reserves in the hope we could die off peacefully and not provide white inudstrial growth with a hindrance. Read and understand your own bloody history for gawd sake!

The thought that this is a government land grab is so wrong it is funny, sad too however.
ABC radio has from the very start of this let any rat bag idea get air.
Some of those ideas prove my honest wish that real education is badly needed in some of these community's.
And the history of pre white Australia clearly reminds me at least that accountability is no longer part of the culture of some in the community's we speak of.
land grab? it is so very funny isn't it?

Belly,
with a mindset like that,all I can say is thank God for the Mabo High Court Decision and the Laws that followed .

Howard has been trying hard to pare back that historic Decision's liberating effects for Aboriginal People ever since it was made into Law.

First, the Wik Task Force Amendments, [remember them] and what other Land Mischief Laws will come next from the present "Task Force " ?

Mal Brough still can not give a creditable reason as to why he would get rid of the permit system for Aboriginal Land .

White Governments generally have an apalling lack of ability to see what Aboriginals need and let's face it, for every one vote they could get from Aboriginal People for putting up good programs for their help and "Advancement" they would lose far more from that large section of Racist Australia that continues to live in the 19th Century and thinks that they owe the Original Owners nothing .....but more trouble!

kartiya Jim any room for truth?
Want to come with me down any country town street next weekend?
You will hear drunks who call me a white *&^%$.
You will see kids who have no love in their lives stealing.
You if it is the right town hear kids call me uncle.
Elders stop to talk.
Can you continue to use terms that implies this task force is an invasion and still claim to care for your people?
Some of them are RACIST some are pedophiles, some are criminals, and far too many of them live in fear of those type within the community.
Aboriginals once would punish them from within the community and put an end to the problem.
That once proud culture is hard to find in this days community's how do you blame whites for that?
Any action is better than no action, it is far past time for debate like that you put in the way of stopping child rape.
It is time for action from every Australian, and time your community took its share of the blame.

Saying 'sorry' is not going to solve the present problems. Nor do I think that the government has any right or duty to apologise for the actions of the past. We can (and should) regret what happened but we have no right or even moral obligation to apologise for the actions of other people.
We do have a moral obligation, a very strong moral obligation, to assist those who are unable to help themselves. Those demanding a 'sorry' and who stand in the way of action being taken because those who could have helped have failed to do so are the ones who should be saying sorry.
I strongly object to being asked to feel guilty about the actions of those over whom I had no control and still have no control. I also strongly object to those who have far more white than indigenous ancestry claim that "their people" (meaning indigenous people) have been victimised. Are all their ancestors entirely without blame? I doubt it.
Let's concentrate on the future, not the past. Let's make sure that the children and the women of the present day are being helped right now.

Belly ,

I ABHOR sexual abuse of children and want it gone from ALL societies , that's the "truth" you are looking for - got it ?

Now if you are happy with the psycological abuse that John Howard brings on Aboriginal Communities with his "Shock and Awe " approach well that's your big problem.

Professor Helen Milroy of the UWA ,our first Australian Aboriginal psychiatrist and specialising in child mental health, has counselled action, but with caution and a measured approach to prevent more extreme trauma.

I will believe her any day before John Howard .

Meanwhile he marches in the Army and - again .

It will be interesting to read Dr Bill Glasson's report to the Government on the health of these communities and his suggestions to help them .

That is if the world can get a look at it.

kartinya Jim I am a trade unionist a worker and an ALP member ,do you think I like or trust Howard.
In communicates post he says we have no need to say sorry, forget the stolen generation, forget the arrival of whites.
But do not forget the shameful failures of both white and Aboriginals for over 100 years that each year fails to impact on this dread full issue not just child rape, not just child neglect, not just poor housing rebuilt and re destroyed, not empty schools , not just kids who will never read and write.
Both your people and mine must say sorry for doing little more than debating over and again, paying massive amounts of money only to see it wasted.
I truly think John Howard is a liar.
I truly want him beaten and shamed on election night.
And I truly thank him for this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a start to decades of hard hopefully honest work to end this insult to an Aussie fair go.
How many kids suffer tonight?
How many mums hide tonights bruises tomorrow?
in any outside town community you will find victim who truly think white man can be blamed? not alone Jim not only mate.
Hear the voices question the need face up to an ABC radio mike, so full distane for this action, is there just a chance some of those voices belong to those who victimise these communitys?
Could it be fear of being found out that drives a few?

Communicat ,

Your thinking on Aboriginality and the degree of white or Indigenous blood takes us back to days when white bureaucrats thought that to "breed the black out" was the way to go to solve the "Aboriginal Problem".

If Howard swamps small Aboriginal Communities with 1000's of noxious and culturally insensitive tourists, those racists of then and now may well have their wish .

It would be a type of Government inspired, Long Term Plan Genocide, as their culture is overwhelmed for the last time .

To be replaced with what ?