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The Forum > General Discussion > The Remarkable Mr Ludlum

The Remarkable Mr Ludlum

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Foxy, no it is not enough. Moslems swear allegiances in naturalisation
ceremonies and when they are sworn in for parliament on the Koran.
The Koran has a clause that it is legitimate for moslems to lie to
infidels if it is to the benefit of moslems.
This makes any oath invalid under our law as they have sworn with reservation.
There is already a moslem member of parliament and I believe he is not
validly a member.

He is a labour member so the government has a majority of two not one.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 18 July 2017 5:17:43 PM
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Foxy,

It is very well known that citizens of another country are not permitted to sit in Parliament, as there is a potential conflict of interest. For many other countries, the requirements are more stringent. Whatever your feelings with regards to this issue, nothing short of a referendum is going to change this, and a referendum to remove an inconvenience for a few dozen potential MPs is ludicrous.

Given that just about every country in the world recognises citizenship at birth, and many happily permit dual citizenship incl Canada, the US, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, etc, (not Germany), the assumption that citizenship of a country one was born in evaporates on naturalisation in another is naive to the point of idiocy.

Secondly, there is no prohibition of people with dual nationality running for Parliament, only that they have renounced it before the election. And given the ease and simplicity of checking one's citizenship and if necessity renouncing it. I see no need to change the constitution just yet.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 18 July 2017 5:33:30 PM
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This Greens Senator Larissa Waters, a lawyer*, who is 'surprised' that she is a Canadian citizen,

"Queensland Greens Senator Larissa Waters spent $414,000 on fitout for Paddington office
CourierMail
April 19, 2014

GREENS Senator Larissa Waters spent a whopping $414,000 to fit out her trendy Paddington office – more than any of her Queensland political colleagues at the time.

The office, on the top floor of a pristine-condition, split-level building on Given Tce, includes a rooftop patio with timber outdoor furniture and artificial turf.
..
Australian Pensioner and Superannuants League Queensland state secretary Raymond Ferguson said: “They need to look at all their lurks and perks. It’s outrageous.
“There are not enough checks and balances and guidelines. Politicians more than ever should have to account for their actions and the way they spend taxpayer money.” [The Courier Mail Apr19,2014]

*[Larissa Waters] has a Bachelor of Science and a Bachelor of Laws from Griffith University and a Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice from the New South Wales College of Law. From 2000–2001 she was a Legal Researcher at the Queensland Land and Resources Tribunal (predecessor of the Land Court of Queensland), from 2001–2002 a Lawyer at Freehills, and from 2002–2011 was a Lawyer with the Environmental Defenders Office.."
Posted by leoj, Tuesday, 18 July 2017 6:59:00 PM
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Grant Wyeth wrote an opinion piece for The Drum
16th Sept. 2014 on dual citizenship and part of his
argument was that Article 44(i) of the Constitution
was completely outdated and had no real place in
Modern Australia and should be rescinded. This is
similar to the opinion of Chief Justice Sir Garfield
Barwick that was expressed earlier in this discussion.

Wyeth stated that the premise behind Article 44 (i)
of the Constitution came from an era where pompous
ideas about "national loyalty" were predominant.
He made the point that nowadays a "national understanding"
should be considered more important for public office than
a myopic "national identity." And that equally important
for the 21st Century should be a broader "international
understanding."

The current inter-connectedness of the world demands we
have politicians whose life experiences reflect this reality.
"Transnationalism" is becoming a natural way for people to
organise their lives according to Wyeth.

He points out that to deny people with international links
political rights (the right to run for office) is not only
unreasonable but incredibly short-sighted in our current
globalised age. Australia according to Wyeth is undeniably
cutting itself off from some major political talent by
maintaining this outdated Article 44(i).

He says that to think that dual citizens cannot be
representatives of the people is belittling. Especially in
a country like Australia where a quarter of the population
was born outside the country and a further large percentage
are second generation residents with significant overseas
cultural ties.

He states that it could easily be said that people without
such international links are unrepresentative of the
Australian public. With such large numbers of Australians
being so internationally connected we should be able to
rise above cheap definitions of "loyalty" and maturely
embrace our diversity in both our Parliament and our
public debates.

cont'd ...
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 18 July 2017 8:09:50 PM
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cont'd ...

Continuing with Wyeth's article...

He tells us that the former leader of the Canadian
Liberal Party, Michael Ignatieff, was hounded by the
Conservative Party as unfit for office due to the
time he spent outside of Canada. That his talents had
him lecturing at Cambridge, Oxford, and Harvard
Universities during these years, the top tiers of his
industry. Wyeth says that this was not enough to
transcend this petty nationalism.

Wyeth argues that this is a matter of great relevance to
Australia. He says - because many of our brightest minds
are also required to pursue their work overseas in
countries with fields of expertise greater than our own.

Wyeth says that this is not something we should begrudge,
particularly if and when they wish to bring their skills
back to Australia.

He then states that fortunately in Australia we don't have
a significant culture of Constitution worship like that
present in the United States. Wyeth notes that Australians
have the good sense to realise that as much grand foresight
as our Constitution's authors had, their work is not
infallible.

Wyeth says - that in this regard, let us hope that out of
this silly undertaking of "gotcha" journalism comes the
public momentum to remove the archaic Article 44(i) from
our laws.

Hear, hear!
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 18 July 2017 8:37:36 PM
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Greens Scott Ludlam and Larissa Waters finally walked because they had to. That is the law.

Both admitted fault and resigned.

No-one can change that. So move on.

Whether justice will be seen to be done is the issue. Because ordinary citizens are not being cut any slack by government. There are many examples daily.
Posted by leoj, Tuesday, 18 July 2017 9:30:41 PM
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