Yes, phanto.

<<Like I said I think you are lying and that is all I need to know.>>

I once thought that Jesus loved me, and that's all I needed to know, too. Both are examples of belief in the face of evidence to the contrary.

That would have been a long time to sustain a lie, by the way. Especially when some juicy stories of the horrors of Christian life could have helped my arguments along the way.

--

Shadow Minister,

If you read through the comments carefully, you will see that the good that has come from the Church as not been overlooked.

<<I also note that the most rabid critics of the church are often those defending Islam against any criticism.>>

I'm glad to see that you don't consider me to be "rabid" then, at least.

Philips:

"the face of evidence to the contrary."

And how do we know your 'evidence' is not also lies?

You are getting awfully desperate to defend yourself.

I already addressed that, phanto.

<<And how do we know your 'evidence' is not also lies?>>

Because it is far more fanciful to believe that I had sustained such a lie, for such a long time, and so consistently. Especially when horror stories could have served me better over the years.

When you start accusing others of lying, with no evidence to suggest that they are, you've lost the debate.

<<You are getting awfully desperate to defend yourself.>>

And how do my actions suggest a desperation? After all, it doesn’t exactly cost a lot of time or energy to respond to your slanderous accusations.

No, I think you’re just trying to shame me out of responding so that you can get the last word in and make it look like you were on to something.

It’s that ‘win-win’ tactic of yours that I’ve mentioned several times before: try to convince your opponent that they’ll look guilty if they continue to respond so that you can get the last word in and make them look guilty when they don’t respond.

Either way, you get what you want, so I may as well expose your dishonesty in the process.

I remain in amazed admiration of AJP's patient insistence on rational point by point argument in plain English in response to every ad hominem spray from OLO's resident narcissist troll who hibernated for a while but has started up again.

On the question of Roman "Catholicism" I have never had any good or bad personal experience of it (any more than of Islam which it closely resembles including in its accumulated historical martyred body count).

On logical grounds one must reject over and above rejection of all religion a cult which claims to be the "one true faith" and which embodies the black magic of transubstantiation and the pre-fascist Constantine structure of popery.

As for its body count the Church of Rome accumulated most of that in its 17-century war against Christianity. Foxe's Book of Martyrs and the accounts in the Sevvo Ellen White's book "The Great Conspiracy" cover this prolonged bloodbath pretty well.

The Spanish Inquisition was a high point in Roman Catholicism's bloodsoaked history, matched perhaps by its involvement with Musso and the rat line of war criminals to Latin America during and immediately after the war.

For a very satisfying account of the ending of the RCs' Spoanish Inquisition at the hands of Napoleon's army, have a read of www.scionofzion.com/spanish_inquisition.ht

Sorry, that link to the ending of the Spanish Inquisition should be
www.scionofzion.com/spanish_inquisition.htm
It's great stuff.

I've never heard it said 'God needs man'..... but it's obvious 'Man needs God'... why? perhaps an extension to a society desiring King and Queen....who knows...each for their own reason....and as far as religion goes....how and why does one choose a football team to support...usually influence of one sort or another...parental...sibling...communal and later in life the, romantic ideology.
Man wants someone to bear the final responsibility of his life...so why not God!
The Catholic church is merely another religious franchise offering God metaphorically dressed in a certain way as to find appeal to the masses
The social evil that is done is done by man....sometimes under the auspices of the church and the church is always in the name of God.
And now we're all discussing the merits of the Catholic church....because it fills a void and seemingly gives comfort...and brings home a truth that....man finds greater comfort in being wrong in the company of many .....than being right and standing alone