According to his own criteria for stabbing Tony Abbott in the back – negative Newspolls - Malcolm Turnbull is only two more negative polls from deserving the same treatment as Abbott got.

Reporters often yap that the reason for Abbott's removal was 30 negative polls when, in fact Abbott had suffered 16 successive adverse Newpolls on 7/2/15 when he was shafted, not 30.

Bending over backwards to emulate the Labor Party has not helped Turnbull – if the socialist budget didn't give him a boost in the polls, nothing is likely to in the immediate future.

A decent man, repenting his arrogance and stupidity, would have resigned after the budget. Unfortunately for the country, Turnbull cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be described as such a man.

What makes you think Turnbull is the problem. With entities like Dutton, Abbott, Morrison, and bishop posing as dyed in the wool liberals, Turnbull has his hands very full.
The voters do not forget in such short times of the deceit of Abbott and he has maintained his attack on the very topic he promised not to disrupt. So that is where the unpopularity of the Turnbull govt lies. The only way to clear the smog is to call an election.

Yeah, I doubt Turnbull is the main problem for anyone other than the hard Right.

It was only because of the political capital that a switch to Turnbull gave the Coalition which enabled them to limp over the line after Turnbull made the same mistake as Gillard made in not calling a snap election after the leadership change.

<<Unfortunately for the country, Turnbull cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be described as [a decent man capable of repenting his arrogance and stupidity].>>

Neither could Abbott, so I guess there was no loss there.

‘Yapping reporters’, ‘socialist budgets’. You should try some less-emotive language, ttbn. Others may take you a little more seriously if you do.

doog,

Try sticking to the subject.

The subject is [only two to go Malcolm] I am not sure what you would like me to say about that. If you are talking about Tim Tams I bet they have all gone already.
Hanson is still getting sharps poked at her, ridiculing school kids what next is coming.
Factional tensions have flared within the Liberal Party after comments from senior frontbencher Christopher Pyne were leaked and reported.
The leaking of Mr Pyne's remarks made at a private event for his factional allies on Friday evening has exposed a deeper split within the Coalition between conservatives and small 'l' Liberals.
He is recorded saying he and his factional allies like George Brandis had voted for Malcolm Turnbull in every ballot he had ever been in.
Former prime minister Tony Abbott agreed when it was put to him this morning that those comments appeared to be evidence Mr Pyne had been plotting behind his back.
"This appears to be the confession that he has made to his close colleagues in the Left faction," Mr Abbott told radio 2GB.
"Christopher Pyne wasn't just a member of my cabinet, he was actually in the leadership team and it's important that you show loyalty.
"But if he's to be believed on Friday night, that loyalty was never there which is incredibly disappointing."

Wow, did anyone see the 'nodding dog' Tony Abbott in the background as shock jock Ray Hadley unloaded on Abbott enemy number two, Scott Morrison, Hadley called Morrison "rubber faced" among other things, whilst a smirking Abbott sat in the background.
Abbott had a busy day, later unloading on the disloyal enemy number 47 Christopher Pyne over gay marriage. Conservatives like Credlin, Bernardi, Bolt and Newman are lining up to put the boot into Turnballs!

Just a normal day in the happy little family of the Turnballs government.

Slightly better than the Gillard/Rudd years though.

I don't blame Abbott one bit for anything he says or does. What Turnbull did was unforgivable, cowardly and nasty, he's done nothing since to make me change my mind.

I'll be pretty surprised if he gets back in next year, but the alternative in Shorten is just as sickening.

Why bother having elections when it seems the polls run the country these days.

Hanson is hell-bent on abusing everybody and anybody that moves, making herself a very unpopular figure. Her dictatorial followers will not admit that of course. Where does she think that is leading her I think it will lead to implosion. You are not supposed to insult society no matter what her opinions are.
Abbot is doing his best to insult his own party, I think this whole shemozzle of politics is not in Australia’s best interests. Where is the governor general in all of this, he is on Abbott’s side that is where he is.
A key political fundraiser for former prime minister Tony Abbott has maintained contact with Chinese Communist Party-aligned businessman Huang Xiangmo, despite warnings from ASIO to Mr Abbott about the billionaire donor.
Mr Huang has sought to get Abbott confidant and Liberal party heavyweight, John Caputo, to intervene in his citizenship application, according to a well-placed source.
Two Liberal MPs have been secretly working on a plan to legalise same-sex marriage in Australia as soon as August, with a draft copy of the laws well advanced and consultation with advocates under way.
Fairfax Media can reveal WA senator Dean Smith and NSW lower house MP Trent Zimmerman are working on a private members' bill they hope will be presented to Parliament to legalise same-sex marriage through a conscience vote, rather than the Turnbull government's stated policy of a national, non-binding plebiscite.

The lunatic-Left has an unhealthy obsession with Tony Abbott, a back bencher who has absolutely no authority in the Left-Turnbull government, nor any influence on anyone or anything. Abbott is just a lot of background noise, and is unlikely to be endorsed for his own seat at the next election: he is finished, just like conservatism in the Liberal party is finished.

Now, I repeat for you stupid hicks - this thread is about the fact that Turnbull has two more more negative polls to go before he is in the same position as Abbott was; nothing to do with individual politicians, Pauline Hanson, or Tim Tams.

It's a waste of time these days for anyone to try to introduce a topic on this forum when there are so many stupid posters who just use other people's input to get on their own irrelevant bandwagons, because they don't have the ability to start a thread of their own.The real standouts in this are doog and aj philips.

Dear ttbn,

Our Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull like John Howard
stresses "the broad church" of Coalition politics.
He has no choice. He must accommodate residual liberals,
economic pragmatists, and ultra-conservatives within his
government and wrangle a viable consensus. His greatest
threat is the sniping from ultra conservatives who
continue to champion Tony Abbott. Hopefully that man will
not win in his electorate and will get kicked out of politics
for good. He should have left politics a long time ago.

I believe that Mr Turnbull will win the next election.
His government's recent success in getting the Gonski Schools
Funding program passed has shown that the Coalition is on
the right track to win voters over. And there's still plenty
of time to achieve even more prior to the next election.
Labor by not supporting the Coalition's positive agenda will
lose a lot of voters.

Abbott is the one that consistently makes news or haven't you noticed. He is the string puller and very much a major disruption, of the Liberals, the real liberals i mean, not the imposter's infiltrating a once great political party. He has supporters in Radio that are biased to the point of idiot ism.
He should not have been helped to retain his seat in the last election, He needs a home-coming on a one way ticket.

Tony has been drawing hatred from the regressives for the last 25 years. Shows he must have something good going for him. Maybe they still hate him because he defied every regressives dogma by stopping the boats and got rid of the idioitc breathing tax. He did more good in 12 months than Gillard/Rudd wreckers did in 7 years. Come back Tony all is forgiven or at least join Cory in standing up to the socialist wrecking this nation.

The number of refugees who have resettled in Cambodia from Nauru, at a cost of $55 million. Three of the six refugees who were transferred to Cambodia have since returned to their country of origin. Sources: The Guardian and Asian Correspondent.

Tony Abbott's decision to remove the carbon price and wind back the Renewable Energy Target was a disaster. Rather than reducing energy costs, it has brought our electricity generation industry closer to crisis point, writes Ian Verrender.

The lack of a carbon price is paralysing investment in Australia's energy sector and putting domestic power bills on track to surge by up to 40 per cent, experts warn.

Foxy,

Thanks for showing the numbskulls that it is possible to say something useful and stick to the subject. You also, runner.

I don't think that there is anything like a 'broad church' in the Liberal Party any more; the very fact that a majority of members voted Turnbull in as their leader proves that. Apart from Tony Abbott, I cannot think of a single Liberal politician I would regard as conservative, and the Left is working towards getting him out of his seat. Nancy boys like Pyne are the new Liberals.

I disagree with your contention that the government will win the next election. The Liberals are bleeding votes and support, and why would Labor voters suddenly vote for Turnbull's party when they have everything they need in the current Labor Party? Try as he might, Turnbull cannot give the Left anything that Shorten can't, and Shorten is more like they are than Turnbull is. And, most certainly, the Greens are are not wanting Turnbull.

So, where are all the votes coming from to return the government, do you think?

You are getting rather nasty there, ttbn.

Contrasting Abbot with Turnbull is absolutely relevant to your topic here. Especially when there are so many who delude themselves into thinking that Abbott could have won the last election.

Incidentally, runner was further off topic. Sprung!

But you want to talk specifically about Turnbull almost hitting the same number of negative Newspoll polls? Fine. What's the source for your figures? I can’t find them.

It was Turnbull who first mentioned the ’30 Newspoll polls’ figure when he toppled Abbott, so perhaps the journos are just using the figure he cited. But surely they would have checked his count (after all, 30 does sound a high given that Turnbull is only at 14 now).

So, when Turnbull does hit the 16-poll mark, what then? I think they need to stay with Turnbull. That way they’d be able to go down with a modicum of dignity rather than repeating the same mistake Labor made with Rudd and Gillard. I’m sure there are many backbenchers in marginal seats who would see things differently, however.

That being said, I’m not as optimistic as Foxy regarding the Coalition’s chances of a comeback. All governments hit a point at which the public stops listening and nothing they do matters anymore. That’s where I think the current government is at now.

<<… they don't have the ability to start a thread of their own.The real standouts in this are doog and aj philips.>>

Yes, either that or they have no motivation to. For me it’s the latter. I’ve had many ideas in the past for new discussions but never went through with actually starting the discussion because I knew what everyone’s response would be anyway. When this forum’s readership consists of a greater variety of people than 90% retired, conservative men, and 10% other, I might consider it. But until then, what’s the point?

I see those in the 10% ‘other’ category start discussions that are on topics other than how evil Muslims or Labor are, and they generate comparatively very few comments. So, again, what’s the point?

Dear ttbn,

Basically I think that most voters will still vote
for one of the two major parties that we currently
have. It will be the Coalition versus Labor. Mr Shorten
is not very popular with many voters. I feel that quite
a few Labor voters don't see him as a suitable leader
of this country. On the other hand Mr Turnbull does come
across as a better communicator. However predicting election
results is risky at the best of times. Look at what happened
in the US and recently in the UK. So although I still think
that the Coalition will win the next election - its only
my opinion. (and what do I know?). I am trying not to be
sucked in by polarising opinions spun by paid spruikers
and ratings chasers.

Dear AJ,

I don't think that Tony Abbott plans to be a backbencher for the
rest of his life. However I think its unlikely that he will
be a leader again. Many Conservatives have already been
promoted and most remember Mr Abbott's poor polling and
autocratic office.

My money's still on Malcolm Turnbull.

Dear Foxy,

I agree that Abbott plans on a comeback. I also agree that it's unlikely he will succeed. I think Abbott represents a conservatism that is gone for good and now only appeals to the much older generations. Going by the recent leaks, it appears Pyne et al. understand this and I think they will succeed in dragging the Liberal party closer to the centre, much to the disgust of the unrepresentatively-aged demographic of OLO.

However, I just can't see the Coalition winning the next election, unless they change leaders perhaps (To whom, though?!) and then call a snap election? A new leader would need to be from the moderate pool of Liberal party members, though. If Labor does win the next election, I think Shorten will be a one-termer like Abbott would have been. He has the charisma of a cardboard cut-out and the policy direction of a... Turnbull.

Or maybe we have become so pessimistic about politics that it won't matter who is in or when, we're just going to be contrarian either way?

--

ttbn,

Sorry. Went off on a bit of a tangent there. So, yeah, how about those polls, eh?

Or those Socialist, Feminist, Marxist, Stalinist, Leninist, Trotskyist, Communist, Fabian, Leftists (since I assume complaining about them is an acceptable diversion to you, going by the praise you gave runner's response which was less relevant than mine)?

Our local MP is getting quite worried.

He knows that a lot of us weakened in our resolve not to vote for Turnbull at the last election, because he has been a good local member for a while.

However he now knows that a hell of a lot more have stiffened in their resolve to get rid of the disgusting Turnbull at any cost, after his recent direction.

There is nothing at all that would get me to vote liberal again, as long as Turnbull is in parliament as a liberal. The disgusting bunch of lefties he is surrounded with are almost as bad, & would equally stop me voting for any party in which they hold senior positions.

From talking to supporters our local member is not expecting to hold his place.

same for me Hasbeen. I do feel a little sorry for my local Lib member however the fact that so many voted for Turnbull shows how regressive the party has become.

Hassy, runner, I couldn't agree more get rid of the disgusting Turnbull, The blokes a communist, and an atheists, that is self evident by the fact the disgusting fella parts his hair on the left hand side, and has never once been seen in public carrying the good book!
I say lets return to the good old days, and bring back the Mad Monk, kick a few Doleies, sink a few Boaties! That's the dinky-di Aussie way, hang em'... hang em' high! Agree?

I never thought I would agree with Corny Banana on anything., but I must agree with his assessment of Christopher Pyne, as a grub. I said the same thing when Turnbull rolled Abbott. The disloyal Pyne was in there looking after number one.
The bloke always reminds me of a petulant public school brat, eggs on both side for the fight, then runs to the headmaster with tittle tat, "Sir, sir, boys are fighting in the playground!" Talks like one too. So smug.
I might not agree with the politics of people like Bishop, Morrison, Cormann, even Barnyard from the Nationals, can throw in Abbott and Turnbull to boot. But at least they come across as half decent people, not Pyne, no way.

My local member is in a safe Liberal seat and will
undoubtedly continue to be re-elected.

I honestly cannot see Labor under Mr Shorten as leader
winning the next election.

It will be interesting though what if anything the Liberal
Party is going to do about Tony Abbott's consistent
divisive snipping and tactics. I mean look at the man. He's
not on the front-bench, yet he continues to try to undermine
his own party and their leader. He even has his own policies
as was evident from his recent speech to the Institute of
Public Affairs. It definitely appears that he wants the top
job - again.

They should kick him out of the Party. He's doing so much
harm.

Hi Foxy, there is truisms in Politics, 'Oppositions don't win elections, Governments lose them.' Also 'Disunity is death!'

Is Turnball's, politically, a "dead man walking? Me thinks he is!

The last federal election result was a dream come true for Abbott.

Dear Paul,

I still can't see Mr Abbott being returned as
leader of the Liberal Party. I mean - seriously?
This is a man who's still stuck in the 1950s.
(not that there's anything wrong with that). But
we need a leader who can bring us into the 21st
Century and Mr Abbott is definitely not the man to
do that.

Hi Foxy,

I know someone who wouldn't agree with you, and that's Mr Abbott.
Did you ever see the movie 'Groundhog Day'. The story line is everyday was a repeat of yesterday. The Federal Liberal Party are going through their very own 'Groundhog Day' Abbott stabs Turnbull, Turnbull stabs Abbott, Abbott stabs Turnbull, Turnbull stabs Abbott; Keeps repeating itself until the voters gets jack of it, and stab the both of them.
Shorten does not have to do anything, except pour a bit of petrol on the fire whenever he can.

What a rabble we have running the country.

Hassy, why don't you shock me and declare you are going to vote for The Lovely Pauline's One Nation, and give your preference to the Liberal. That would do a fat lot of good!
Have you asked that good local Liberal if he supports his Prime Minister or is he also disloyal like the rest of the rabble. I await your answer.

Paul1405, "Also 'Disunity is death!'"

Yet the nasty Greens NSW 'Eastern Bloc' faction has been haring off with its own lunar Trots activism for years, white-anting the previous leader Bob Brown they hated and the present leader Richard Di Natale, who has also found himself the target of their unrelenting jealousy.

Well the Greens have got something right.
They have temporarily suspended NSW Senator Lee Rhiannon
from the Party Room. We can only hope that
they'll end up throwing her out of the Party
all together. Let her try her luck as an
independent and see how she does.

Hi Foxy,

Just on that, I know who I would like to head The Green Senate ticket in NSW at the next election, but I don't think she is willing to give up he day job. The other excellent choice would be Cate Faehrmann.

Dear Paul,

You're more familiar with the Greens politicians in NSW
than I am. I know that you're a strong Greens supporter.
I wish your Party well at the next election. My personal
preferences lie with the Liberal Party. At least for now.

Foxy,

Why?
The only policy advantage the Libs have over Labor is that they want a plebiscite on same sex marriage - but they seem unable to implement that policy.

Could someone please explain what Senator Lee Rhiannon actually did or did not do?

Hi Foxy,

I have a membership number. Voting I'll be perfectly honest, a couple of times I preferenced the Liberal over Labor, as I knew him personally, and liked his progressive politics. Last time having to got to know the local Labor member, I find him okay, similar in outlook to the Liberal, so i didn't see any reason to use my vote to try and sack him. At the state level I've preferenced the Liberal the last few times. Not keen at all on the local Labor member, known him for more than 40 years.
Speaking, so often to people from other political parties. The younger members tend to be the progressives in both parties, while the older ones tend to be conservative in outlook, not much difference between the two.

The nonsense from Leo about Eastern bloc, trots, watermelons, he wouldn't have a clue, just makes it up, for dramatic effect. Yes there are divergence of opinion in all political parties, including the Greens, and there are fringe groups, eg the Catholic core in State Labor.As far as the Greens are concerned in the two local branches I am associated with I have not come across any of that nonsense from the regulars. Maybe Leo the fly on the wall, knows more than me, about the NSW Greens.

Dear Aidan,

Why, you ask.

I like their plan for the future that has been laid
out in the 2017 - 18 Federal Budget. I like the
decisions to keep spending under control - the
fact that by living within our means the Government
will not burden future generations with debt. I
like the fact that there will be more than $1 billion
allocated to Victoria for new and upgraded infrastructure.
I like the fact that there will be tougher rules on
foreign investment on residential real estate. And the
list goes on. But I trust this does answer your question.

Abbott's in good company he is talking to that zombie from QLD.
Turnbull should call an election and settle the goings on for good. Why does not the governor general have something to say.

And now Pell is in the mix, if it aint Abbott it's Pell. Abbott reckons he can build an atomic expertise in 15 years. Now anyone in their right mind would not believe a word he says, we have had great experience of Abbott's falsehoods.
He now says Japan was not the way to go, and neither was france. Where is his expertise coming from or is he trying to appease Bill into giving him a job.
Now that would set the house a-blaze.

Paul1405, "The nonsense from Leo about Eastern bloc, trots, watermelons,"

Brazen denialism. The NSW 'Eastern Bloc' Greens are notorious inside the Greens as well, where they are referred to as 'Watermelons' and so on. See here,

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/she-has-breached-our-faith-greens-tensions-boil-over-in-spectacular-attack-on-lee-rhiannon-20170623-gwxm6g.html

I can't help but wonder if any of the political parties
will tackle the traffic and transport problems
in the big cities that we're currently facing as an
election issue?

We're all aware of the need for private and public
transport with the continuous expansion of residential
areas and the growing development of the city centres
generating traffic problems that most cities experience
today.

Surely politicians with electorates in outer city and
adjoining rural areas should be concentrating on
developing major new centres by attracting businesses
to outer areas? State governments could tax central
city businesses to encourage them to move out to the
outer edges instead of staying in city centres.

At present the traffic situation in Melbourne is horrific.
I'm sure that the same applies to Sydney and other large
cities. Something needs to be done.

Leo, how about a comment on the Liberal 'wrecking ball' Tony Abbott as he smashes, crashes and trashes his way through the federal gov.

Dear Paul,

He needs to be expelled from the Liberal Party.
It's gone on for far too long - and has to be
stopped. The man is delusional. He need serious
help.

You've got that completely wrong Foxy.

Abbott is about the only one who could lead the Libs out of the mire the disgusting Turnbull has got them into.

If he doesn't, there will be no liberal party in 5 years time.

Hi Foxy
If Turnbull moved to expell Abbott, all the Hassy types would go with him abt 1/3. The white ants are right through the joint. Sorry for the short post in Melbourne for a few days.

Abbott is a madman, I reckon he is a very good chance of being mentally unstable. He promised not to be a disruption, then again he promised a lot of things didn't he. A complete set up to win an election, he has to be made accountable for his election propaganda, which was riddled with lies. It was to win at any cost. He sold every bit of flesh he had. For some reason he now thinks its his job to bring down a govt

Totally wrong as usual Paul.

All the Hassy types have already gone. The only reason the fool media & polls don't know it is because they only poll city phone numbers.

Abbott, or someone like him may, but only may, be able to bring us back, if only for the fun of seeing green & Doog type heads explode.

Tony Abbott once declared "There will be no wrecking,
no undermining and no sniping."

As far as I can remember there wasn't a time frame on
that pledge or any qualifying statements.
Mr Abbott was going to shut up, sit down and let the
Coalition Government get on with governance. This country
so badly needs to find some sort of stability.

Well we're now a very long way in from Mr Abbott's departing
statements and it is clear he's treating us again as a
newspaper article pointed out recently - as he did with
the re-introduction of the archaic Knights and Dames and the
ensuing Knighthood of Prince Philip - with utter contempt.

He is behaving like a petulant child as one correspondent
stated - angry at being kicked off the footy team, lobbying
verbal grenades and leering over the shoulders of the
Turnbull Government. Under the guise of his opinions or
unsolicited advice it is very hard to ignore the fact that the
man has not given up on his dreams of holding court in
Kirribilli House.

He needs to go before he does any more damage. He needs to do
it for the sake of the Party - if he has even an iota of
decency left. This has gone on for far too long and voters will
not support a disunified Party.

It should be the back-bencher and not the Prime Minister who
should quit if the Government is not big enough for both!

Yep there has not been a time over the last year that Tony has not shown his humanity after being stabbed in the back by Pyne, Bishop and Turnbull and other people acting like sleazes. There also has not been anytime over the last 10 years where the bile of Foxy, the ABC and other regressives have been poured it on this man.

Foxy,

Turnbull was advised right from when he became PM to give Abbott a cabinet position, as on the back bench TA was entirely free to speak his mind and in the cabinet, he would be a powerful weapon against labor spin. To expel TA would require that he broke the party rules, which to date he hasn't, and would also cost MT his majority and possibly giving the conservatives a lower house seat to go with their 2 Senate seats.

Given that it is widely believed that MT was the mole in cabinet leaking against Abbott, there isn't a whole lot of sympathy for him, and while most MPs don't want TA back as PM, the underlying support for him in the party is very strong.

All this in fighting is not good for the party, and the last thing the country needs is a labor government beholden to a corrupt union movement.

Shadow, looks like you are saying that both Turnbull and Abbott are stuffed! Time for an election. Let the people be the judge.

'Shadow, looks like you are saying that both Turnbull and Abbott are stuffed! Time for an election. Let the people be the judge.'

just for once you have got it right Paul. Conservatives can't stomach a Liberal party that is Labor/Greens lite (destroying the power base for Australia on tha basis of the gw fantasty). While pensioners in Canberra struggle to pay bills (minus 9 over weekend) against record high power prices most are to dumb to realise its thanks to the idiotic renewable rush endorsed by Turnbull. Then of course we have billions more being wasted on Gonski which again will result in a decline in standards as more and more money has shown in the last 20 years. Turnbull after undermining Abbott with the help of fairfax/abc for years now has the audacity to say that people are sick of squabbling. Yep true many conservatives are looking at the vomit bag.

Dear runner,

You accused Foxy of bile?

Yep. She takes super hot showers to practice
burning in hell.

What do you do to compensate for yours?

Foxy

bile
b&#652;&#618;l/
noun
noun: bile

1.
a bitter greenish-brown alkaline fluid which aids digestion and is secreted by the liver and stored in the gall bladder.
2.
anger, bitterness, or irritability.
"his response was full of bile and hatred"

admittedly yours compared to the abc/fairfax has been at the low end of the scale.

Dear runner,

I think your guardian angel drinks.

Turnbull, has played a trump, if Abbott, or anyone, launches a successful challenge against him, then Turnbull is going to take his marbles and go home. Quit politics altogether, and effectively bring down any government led by Abbott, or any of his cronies. It must be hotting up in the Liberal Party kitchen. Shadow, have you got a report for us?

Good to see the Liberals putting Australia's need for good government ahead of any petty self-interest.

leoj, being that all knowing, all seeing, fly on the wall, middle of the road moderate, you claim to be, how about a comment on that 'wrecking ball' Abbott, or is your venom only to be applied to the Greens. What a phony!

'Abbott had a busy day, later unloading on the disloyal enemy number 47 Christopher Pyne over gay marriage. Conservatives like Credlin, Bernardi, Bolt and Newman are lining up to put the boot into Turnballs! '

true Paul, only they do it openly unlike the sleazy backers of Turnbull who now take credit for stopping the boats, forcing a vote on twisting the meaning of marriage and getting rid of the breathing tax.

Paul,

For all your bluster you seem extremely ignorant of parliamentary processes. If MT resigns from parliament there will be a by-election and another liberal MP will be elected, especially given the ALP's and the greens growing antisemitism.

Shadow he can resign, effective immediately, and since there would be no pair for the seat of Wentworth (you don't know what that means look it up), Labor could bring on a no confidence vote in the intervening period between resignation and by-election, and oust the Mad Monks minority government. With MT resigning A no confidence vote would be strongly supported by the minors and independents, the vote would be interesting to say the least.

The Liberals would most likely retain the blue ribbon seat, but with a backlash from the voters, a swing in the order of 20% is possible,MT got 68% TPP. Malcolm is very popular in Edgecliff and Double Pay. Green vote in Wentworth about 20%. There would be no by-election, it would go to a general election.

Shadow, For all your bluster you ARE extremely ignorant of parliamentary processes.

Paul,

Yet another rookie error. A no-confidence vote requires a majority and if MT resigned the government would have 74 votes and the speaker whilst all other parties have 74 incl the independents. And if the speaker stepped down, a majority would be impossible.

As for Wentworth going to Labor with a 20% swing as Shorten promises higher taxes for business and the wealthy plus NSW Labor and the Greens lobbying against Israel in the most Jewish electorate, I guess that you have been smoking your socks again.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Weren't you the one who predicted a huge Tory win in
the UK elections and that Labor didn't stand a chance?

Foxy,

Don't put words in my mouth. The Tories won by a smaller margin, but they did not lose.

"My best guesstimate (with a fat margin of error) would be for the lead at the election being in the region of 10% with labour losing 20 seats." Considering that would only increase their lead by 3.5% that is a good margin but by no means massive and proportionally less than Abbott won by in 2013. The Tories lead instead dropped to about 3%

By comparison, the gap in Wentworth on a 2pp basis is 35% which is nearly 10 x the swing that Corbyn managed.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Actually the Tories did lose. They needed 326 seats to
form a majority government. The fact is they only managed to
win 318 seats, down by 12 and they will have to rely on the
Democratic Unionist Party DUP to get things done. If any of
the DUP'S 10 MPs don't support them they'll be in a mess.
Labor on the other hand won 262 seats - an increase of 30.

Predicting elections is a risky business at the best of times.

Shadow, when Labor was in trouble in government you were screaming for an election. But with the Liberal disaster crumbling like it is, the last thing you want is an election. Why is that? I never said Labor could win Wentworth, I said there would be a large backlash against the Liberals in a by-election. No confidence votes are hard to achieve, never been a successful one in the Federal parliament. But legislative defeat is much more likely, and the ensuing paralysis forces a moral Prime Minister to see out the GG to dissolve parliament. Then again the Mad Monk is hardly moral, now is he.

Shadow, The Gap is in the seat of Wentworth, maybe Malcolm could hold the next party meeting there, an invite the disloyal to do the honorable thing, Could be a long queue though.

Foxy,

When I made my prediction I did say that it was my guesstimate with a wide margin of error. Secondly as May is still PM, the conservatives didn't lose, in fact, they got enough seats to guarantee that Labor couldn't govern. Using your logic Juliar lost the 2013 election badly as she got fewer seats than Abbott.

Paul,

You are telling porkies again, when was I screaming for an election? Secondly, you were definitely offering up a no-confidence vote and the libs losing Wentworth as possibilities.

There are 2 years to the next election, and a lot can happen in that time.

Shadow, do you really believe this incompetent conservative government in Canberra can run a full term. Given their track record imagine the havoc they will wreak on Australia in two years. It's clear Abbott is working to launch a challenge on Turnballs shortly.
Which camp are you in, Turnbulls or Abbotts?

Did you celebrate the birthday present this mob gave the big end of town on 1st July, whilst robbing the pockets of the lowest paid workers?

Dear Shadow Minister,

A lot is already happening.

Sadly Mr Abbott is not about to sit quietly and suppport
the team as he promised. He's always placed his own interests
first. There's nothing new in that. He hasn't given up his
dreams of holding court in Kirribilli House.
He told us in his departing statements - "There will be no
wrecking, no undermining and no sniping." As far as I remember
there was no time frame on that pledge or qualifying statements.
And its clear that he's again behaving like a petulant
child, angry at being kicked off the footy team, lobbying
verbal grenades and leaning over the shoulder of the Turnbull
government.

It should be the back bencher and not the Prime Minister who
should quit if the government is not big enough for both.
Mr Abbott should sit down and let the government get on with
the job of governance. This country needs some sort of
stability. Mr Abbott is doing his party a great deal of damage.

Hi Foxy,

No doubt Abbott feels he was wronged, not just by Turnbull, but by others in the Party. Ones he thought he could count on for loyalty, but at the end of the day they put self interest first.
The day Abbott puts out his memoirs on this period in his political life is going to make for explosive, yet fascinating reading. The naming of names.

Dear Paul,

I don't doubt for one moment that Mr Abbott feels that
he's been wronged by the Party. But I think it goes
deeper than that. Under the guise of his opinions or
unsolicited advice it is hard to ignore the fact that
the man has not given up on his dreams of holding court
in Kirribilli House. It is a shame that he does not
realise the damage that he's causing to his own party.

Paul,

Another rookie mistake TA is in no position to launch a challenge yet as he clearly doesn't have the numbers

Given that this government's track record is vastly better than either Krudd's or Juliar's and a Labor government lead by a corrupt Shorten in partnership with corrupt greens could only be a disaster.

Are you talking about the tiny penalty rates reduction put in place by the Labor created and appointed Fair Work that affects a few people that is minor compared to the many workers whose penalty rates were traded away by the unions?

As for MT or TA, I don't particularly support either as in spite of achievements far beyond Krudd or Juliar, their battles are hurting the conservative cause.

I would prefer if TA joined the conservatives to provide a rational alternative to ON, and Julie Bishop took over from MT.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I don't see Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull being
replaced. It would be a disaster for the Liberal
Party. As for Julie Bishop as PM? After her betrayal of
Mr Abbott who trusts her? She's a go-with-the-flow
whateverist - when the times demand a conservative.

Hi Foxy and Shadow,

Nah Shadow, I was talking about the billions given to the Big End of Town in tax cuts, not the last few pennies taken from the pockets of hard working Aussie battlers.

Every disastrous poll, every destabilizing word, sees that number increase. As for a challenge, it does not do the challenger any harm in the long run to challenge and lose the first time.

I agree Foxy with what you say. however it is obvious Abbott is on the campaign trail, addressing meetings of the conservative faithful, shoring up that grass roots support he needs, and at the same time using such addresses as a platform to attack Turnbull,
Is Abbott motivated by his hate for the perceived disloyal traitors, or does he genuinely see himself as the rightful leader of the conservative side of politics, or a bit of both. If I was Abbott, I would not be particularly upset if Shorten replaced Turnbull. It could be a long haul back by that road, but not impossible for a bloke who is 59 now. Historically in the 1950's the DLP split from the ALP, which put Labor into the wilderness for 20 years until Whitlam came along. Joining with a third party, would probably do much the same for conservatism today.

Abbott caught campaigning! What a shocker...

As for corporate tax cuts, the ALP used to have some economic nous, and lead the charge in reducing company tax, and even BS Shorten previously acknowledged the need to do so. The proof is that in 2000 Australia received per capita one of the largest shares of the foreign investment, but today it has halved and the rivers of gold that fuelled economic growth are drying up.

From what was one of the lower tax rates in '97 Australia now has one of the highest, and until someone has the balls to cut the rates the local economy is going to stagnate. Shorten's populist calling to tax corporates appeals primarily to economic pinheads.

Ah! another one of the Conservatives exalted ones the cigar chomping, 'Foreign Investor' who demands his never ending pound of flesh. Nothing better than selling off the farm to a bunch of high return foreign tax fraudsters is there Shadow.

Paul,

Another example of Green pinhead economics from you again.

Elon Musk is building a battery supply in SA to support renewable power. Is he one of your cigar-chomping foreign tax fraudsters?

Dear Paul,

Don't bother arguing with posters who descend into
name-calling, insults, and similar lazy, childish
tactics or a dismissal of anyone other than those
on "their" side, attempts at objectivity are so
scarce with them.

Foxy,

You obviously didn't read Paul's post. Oh I forgot you only attack one side.

Shadow Minister,

Leave the insults to the pros.
You're going to hurt yourself.
Go play in traffic.

Foxy,

I used exactly the same phrases that Paul used, yet you attack me. What rank hypocrisy!

The left whinge approach to balancing the budget is simply to raise taxes and as no one loves big corporations taxing them is a win-win.

Unfortunately, life is not that simple, and for actions there are consequences. With countries around the globe reducing company tax precisely to attract foreign investment, for example, the UK company tax rate is now 19% down from 25%. Ireland's and Singapore who both have tiny markets and no resources have company tax rates of 12% and their countries are booming.

In less than 2 decades Australia's share of foreign investment has halved, which means fewer high paid jobs and the tax that comes from this and the company tax. So yes the greens and ALP policies are short-sighted and disastrous in the long term.

Shadow, you can take a begging bowl approach to foreign investment, generally a few jobs for a heap of profitable concessions, or you can take a partnership approach and ensure the best outcome for Australia. What is it to be?

No worries Foxy, been sparring with the me old mate Shadow for about 7 years now, even spent time with him in the sin bin. All I can say is he snores!

Dear Paul,

Yep. I like Shadow as well. I think he knows it.
He may be conservative, but he's a sweetie deep
down.

There you go.

Paul,

"a begging bowl approach" and "a partnership approach" are just weasel words, especially coming from the Greens who are violently against any big business.

The reality is that big companies can pick and chose where to invest, and when they do, they generate high-paying jobs that provide the government with a stream of p.a.y.e. tax revenue generally well over the company tax that they pay. A "partnership approach" is that Smart governments will give companies sweeteners to invest and will reap vastly more in taxes.

Governments that have a "take it or leave it" approach generally find that the companies take it elsewhere.

P.S. I might snore, but you steal the blankets!

"coming from the Greens who are violently against any big business."
Shadow; Can you substantiate that ridiculous claim.

In August 2013 the Greens launched their 'Australia's Food Future Policy' an initiative supported by the Australian farm sector. The key points of Greens agri policy is to;

Keeping control of our prime agricultural land and resources, which is critical to maximize our own resilience and provide exports to the global market.

Our national interest is first and foremost. We should embrace foreign investment, not fear it. However Australia should not allow itself simply to be a target for foreign buyers to secure their nation’s food security.

Then you go on in your post to reinforce your support for little else than the begging bowl approach to foreign investment. Something the Conservatives and Labor have both very much endorsed as their post war foreign investment policy. open door, given what they want policy

Paul,

Even your pathetic wish list policy is rabidly anti-foreign investment even with a token "we must embrace foreign investment"

Every new mine, industry, road, power network etc has a bunch of prehensile green Oompa loompas trying to stop it. The greens stopped the Franklin dam and its super green hydro power, the super clean Tamar pulp mill that would have created hundreds of well-paid jobs etc.

Which is why Tasmania is a Greenie's haven, with a real begging bowl out to the rest of Australia.

Only ONE To Go, MALCOLM.

The July 10th 'Newspoll' has Labor leading the 'Motley Crew' by 53/47 two party preferred. In technical terms that is called a BLOODY DISASTER!

it is estimated if an election was held now, Labor would gain 13 seats, giving them a comfortable majority.

Shadow, there would be plenty of unemployed Liberals on the streets of Canberra with their begging bowls in hand.

Is the Mad Monk sharpening the knife?

Shadow, just on that score of "development at all cost" you so favor. You must have been most disappointed recently when even the NSW Liberals led by Gladys Higglypiggly, opposed the aptly named Dial-A-Dump's, worlds largest backyard garbage burner for the center of metropolitan Sydney.
I believe the dumpster gang wanted to pile up household and other toxic garbage until it was the size of Mt Everest, and then put a match to it. But not on the days the wind was blowing towards Vaucluse, or the leafy North Shore.

Paul,

Thanks for your Prozac free rant and yet another example of the Greens "no development at any price" policies. The Greens should rename their party the NIMBY party, as I see your faithful Oompa Loompas are out in force displaying their ignorance with pride.

Funny how the Greens are all about generating energy from waste until someone actually tries to do it, which shows that the Greens are all about building massive landfills rather than generating nearly 200MW of clean energy with scrubbed clean emissions and 1.3M tons less of waste to pollute the countryside with.

Besides Dial-A-Dump and Shadow Minister no one else favors the building of a gigantic garbage incinerator in the middle of Western Sydney. The Local Liberal MP must also be one of those Shadow despised Oompa Loompas, as she has started her own petition against the dirty big burner.

Back to the topic at hand.

How pathetic, the war between Turnbull and Abbott has become, now been taken to the World stage. Turnbull today called on the ghost of the party founder, 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies, to smite the disbelievers, from beyond the grave, that's Abbott and co for anyone who doesn't already know.
How embarrassing is that for Australia?

Yes, Paul, I am alone with all those that want cheap renewable baseload electricity (clearly not the greens), alone with those that want to get rid of 1.3m p.a. tonnes of refuse without polluting the country with landfills (also clearly not the greens), and alone with those who want to create jobs in a low socio-economic area (also clearly not the greens).

As for being in the middle of Western Sydney, what bollocks, any further west than Eastern Creek and you are in the Blue Mountains. Eastern Creek is a very low-density industrial area, and an incinerator with precipitators and filters will emit fewer toxins and particulates than are already there.

This is NIMBYism at its very worst.

Shadow, are you evoking that good old Conservative furphy 'The Silent Majority' when you say "all those that want cheap renewable baseload electricity". Other than you, and Mr Dial-A-Dump, I cannot find anyone else who is supporting this carcinogenic causing noxious stink works in the heart of Sydney. Even those that approve 98% of all developments, the Liberal Party is against it!

Lets hope Turnball's never gets to address the General Assembly of the United Nations.

Turnball's: "Today I want to warn the people of the world about a terrible despot who wants to rule all of mankind!

UN Secretary-General; "Mr Turnball's, are you talking about Kim Jong-un of North korea?

Turnball's; "No! worse, Tony Abbott of Australia, he wants my job!

exit stage left for Turnballs.

Paul,

Considering that I very seldom use the term silent majority I guess that it's another BS strategy to deflect from your feeble reasoning. I would guess that you would class yourself as the vocal violent left whinge minority that assault people, burn Hamburg and generally try and prevent anyone from doing anything.

Your very candid confession that you and the Greens don't support cheap renewable baseload power is not surprising. Perhaps your ilk only support the unreliable, intermittent wind and solar generation with token battery back up as installed by the Prince of Darkness Jay Wetherill?

Given your stupendously unscientific description "noxious stink works" I gather that none of the Green Oompa Loompas has actually read the EIA or have the IQ to understand it if they could read.

The liberals approve developments only if they have done an EIA and met the stringent requirement set out by the EPA. The Greens simply approve 0% of anything.

Liberal Party heavy, and one who fell fowl of the ICAC. Nick Greiner, has warned Turnbull and Abbott to cut out the infighting or the Coalition risks losing the next election. Kermit the Frog as Nick is affectionately known, is a political mastermind. News for you Nick, nothing would please Abbott more than to see his class enemy Turnbull shot down in flames at the next election. In fact, Abbott would like nothing better than to see Tuenbull politically assassinated today!

Paul,

I gather that your change of subject is an admission have no logical response.

PS. it is ICAC that fell foul (not fowl as in chicken) of Nick Greiner, not the other way round. For a judicial body to have their judgement thrown out of court for lack of evidence and ICAC forced to retract was a major loss.

Shadow, whenever a Liberal politician enters the ICAC there is always the foul smell of corruption pervading the air. A bit like the foul odour a dead fowl gives off when it fouls the fowl yard. Nick Greiner was convicted by the NSW ICAC of fouling the fowl yard, and had to resign as head chooK! You know it, I know it, we all know it. A big strutting rooster one day, a feather duster the next. Its a wonder Boozy Barry hasn't wade into the debate with some homespun moral advice for the two protagonist, Boozy is another big Liberal Party chook!

A thousand apologias meemsaab with the use of the word "fowl" to describe Kermit the Chook, but he is a big chicken in the Liberal Party is he not.

Paul,

Given the continuous cock ups from the greens, the fowl stench of incompetence is evident every time a greenie struts into Parliament, (followed by intense clucking). Of course, this helps to cover the whiff of corruption from each greeny's expense account as they crap on the taxpayers.

Can someone identify who is the Prime Minister, seems we have two. Do we now have an alternate Prime Minister, and I'm not talking about Bill Shorten.

As soon as PM1, Money Bags Malcolm announces policy, PM2 The Mad Monk announces alternate policy. Yesterday PM1 announced a new super department to be run by Dumb Dumb Dutton, then PM2 announced his government had considered the same thing, and knocked it on the head. Is it an attempt by Turnball's to buy off another one of the hard right factions bully boys, the incompetent Dutton.