Of course autistic children should not be disrupting and holding back 'normal' kids in classrooms.

The shock/horror outrage comes only because it was Hanson who said it.

Australian kids are pushing it up hill already, thanks to the Left wing teachers' unions and progressive ratbags.

If there is some spare money for research, it should go to finding out why there is this huge surge in child disabilities, and what part the parents have played in it. It beggars belief that these modern diseases have suddenly cropped up without faulty living being behind them.

The assumption that they'll be holding everyone else back is part of the problem.

And the main trigger for autism is thought to be CH3CH2COOH which comes from dietary and microbiological sources.

As the grandmother of two autistic children I totally agree with Ms Hanson.
Given the level of outrage her comments have produced, I decided to ask my young adult grandson with Aspergers, whom I have raised.
When asked if he would have preferred to have been in a special class for autistic kids as opposed to mainstream his answer was " hell yeah".
He is a high IQ, delightful young man who despite traumatic failure at school has found a niche in the work place, has a part time job and co workers who are slowly socialising him. The wet tshirt competition at the local pub was an instant winner!
I was directed to the Sunrise FB page and was astounded by the number of comments from parents of autistic kids who also agreed with her.
Naturally organisations like the Teachers Union and Autism Associations are going to protest loudly because she didn't include any fluffy bunny, cuddly kitten comments in her speech but parents and health workers with experience in this area are well aware she speaks the truth

As a parent of a very gifted high-functioning autistic girl, I mostly agree with Big Nana.

Aidan was on to something, too, when he said:

“The assumption that they'll be holding everyone else back is part of the problem.” (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7824#241616)

The problem with Hanson’s claims was that she assumed that it was the autistic children holding the other kids back, when the research suggests that the only children being held back in underfunded classrooms are the autistic children.

Including Pupils with Autistic Spectrum Disorders in Mainstream Schools (http://goo.gl/2Fg4XW)

http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&q=autistic+children+in+mainstream+schools

<<If there is some spare money for research, it should go to finding out why there is this huge surge in child disabilities, and what part the parents have played in it.>>

There appears to be no surge at all, ttbn. We just understand these “disabilities” better now, and don’t write these children off as “retarded” or “devil children” like we did back in the good ol’ days.

How bloody typical.

Hanson states a simple fact, that no one in their right mind can argue against, & the entire left, including the media are after her scalp.

It does look as if the average citizen is sick to death of this noisy minority. Every time they attack Hanson, they drive a few more people to see that she is usually right.

From what I have read, the Autisim rate in America has gone from 01 in every 150,000 in the 1950'60's to 01 in 10,000 today.

From what I have read the autism rate in the Amish is zero as is the vaccination rate.

From what I have read the autism rate in Vietnam has gone from 01 in 1 million to 01 in 50 since vaccines were introduced to Vietnam some years after the Americans were thown out.

Similar story for Cambodia.

just the left railing against common sense. Of course Pauline is right. Just ask any non union teacher.

My wife's nephew was deemed to be suffering from Asbergers and was struggling at school. His parents were told it was unlikely he would finish his VCE and that they should be looking for jobs like landscaping as his future. Through plain persistence his parents found something that focussed and energised him and with the assistance of the teachers this lad not only finished his VCE but now has a biomedical degree and is happily married. This was all within the public system.

But there is also a benefit to the other students as acceptance of difference is a good thing to be learning.

Hanson's comments were really not as bad as some are making out. I'm sure there was a degree of ignorance which fueled them which is normal for her. Unfortunately Hanson is not a Lamby. I have seen Jackie being prepared to educate herself on issues and then change her mind based on what she has learnt. I see none of those qualities in Hanson but there is always hope.

I have already expressed my anger at the politicians in another
thread before I realised this thread was already here.
I was absolutely enraged at what I saw in the Senate.
Bill Shorten was not much better.
If I had the closeness I would have had to restrain myself from getting
at that bloody Di Natali.
Hanson-Young of course is just ignorant as usual.

Pauline Hanson was on Foxtel tonight and spoke more common sense than
any other politician has spoken on any subject.
Bloody oath I will vote for her or her NSW candidate.

One more point, these kids get picked on and bullied no end.
Not always of course but it is very common.
Some handicapped kids get through without being bullied and made fun of.
Once it starts it will go on for years, even after school it will
surface.

Waleed Aly, who has a son on the autism spectrum, has articulated well what the problem with Pauline Hanson's comments were. Having a daughter with autism they echo my initial thoughts as well, given that autism manifests so differently in girls and often goes undetected as a result:

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/radio/waleed-aly-explains-what-pauline-hanson-doesnt-understand-about-autism/news-story/fe78b30305f0d7b42a0938f88988a989

So yes, SteeleRedux, there was still an element of ignorance driving Hanson's comments. There always is.

--

Referundemdrivensocienty,

The claims you've repeated are common myths spread by anti-vaxxers trying to link vaccines to autism. There is no truth to them at all. The Amish usually vaccinate and autism exists in their communities.

Both sides of the argument are just as ignorant. The range and symptoms of autism are as varied as any disability. There are many mid to high functioning sufferers that can participate and benefit from mainstream schooling, just as there are many that cannot.

Autism sufferers require many hours of specialist attention to enable them to function in a normal environment, and they need exposure to a normal environment to function in society. Some high functioning sufferers benefit from mainstreaming, but less able students suffer from insufficient specialist attention.

The other issue is the rights of the other 25 students to study without constant disruption and the insistence of parents of lower-functioning kids with impulse control problems is neither fair to their kids or the rest of the class.

The issue here has little to do with autism. Its more about the pathetic regressive left media again trying to demonise, misrepresent and spew hatred on Hanson. Knowing they have rotton egg all over their face with Trump they have a day off to find their next most hated target. Must be Tony's day today. Oh no I was wrong its Margaret Court!

It was selective understanding on what Pauline said.
When she used the words "these people" the politicians had the
opportunity to take two meanings; either the children or the activists.
They chose the children. Why ? Because it gave them a political hammer.
In fact if you take it in context you would realise that she could
only have meant the activists.
When I heard it I understood what was meant.
Pauline will I hope learn the lesson from this, assume the politicians
that oppose her are stupid as indeed they are and spell it out in great detail.

<<Both sides of the argument are just as ignorant.>>

I 100% agree. As a person with five medical conditions, all which have affected me a lot (including with education), I have found a lot of people (including parents, relatives and others) have no idea what they are talking about. There main concern is an emotional connection which is understandable, but it is not informed. I know this myself!

In a lot of cases, these people are not directly impacted by the health condition (that being they simply do not have it) or they do not have any formal qualifications to fully understand the impacts or issues on the health condition on the individual.

<<Autism sufferers require many hours of specialist attention to enable them to function in a normal environment, and they need exposure to a normal environment to function in society. Some high functioning sufferers benefit from mainstreaming, but less able students suffer from insufficient specialist attention.>>

I agree with most of that, except for what would be considered a normal environment. This can vary of course. I had to go through over five years of medication trials, spend a lot of time in hospital during that period and face many ambulance calls from others, just so I could be where I am today, being able to live independently.

<<The other issue is the rights of the other 25 students to study without constant disruption and the insistence of parents of lower-functioning kids with impulse control problems is neither fair to their kids or the rest of the class.>>

Yes I 100% agree with that element. That is where some 'stepping back' is needed and the emotion is taken out of the issue. The only sad thing is I wish Pauline Hanson was able to put out verbal comments a lot more specifically and clearly as per Shadow Minister has - and there might be able to be some positive progression on this matter.

I would doubt that though, with anything said involving Pauline Hanson for a whole range of reasons.

I wonder how many people are diagnosed as being autistic, when a not too interested doctor has no idea, so labels the kid autistic.

I am somewhat dyslectic. It took the development of a number of techniques to overcome this, but it did not stop me gaining math & physics honours, BSc, or becoming a fighter pilot, with the high level of physics & aerodynamics required in military pilot training.

This was not diagnosed in the 50s but probably would be today. With a lot of this stuff medicos are jumping to labels far too quickly. Many with a minor problem belong in mainstream, & will grow out of the problem, but the truly disruptive do not.

Autism can be a problem in mainstream classes. That's why teachers need support during class time by people qualified to assist them.

Dealing with autism has been thrown into the teacher's lot alongside other things they must deal with in the name of "inclusivity", but there is very little support to go in with it, just training. All the training in the world does not alter an impossible situation.

Pauline's her own worst enemy. She should have come out talking about proper teacher support rather than segregation, which can be done ad hoc on any given day if the right people are incorporated into schools where needed.

Di Natale, SHY and the idealistic holier than thou crew have feasted on Pauline fulsomely. They're very good at it, but the problem remains.

Hasbeen,

Children diagnosed with autism are done so by a specialist using a rigorous testing proccedure. You don't just take a trip down to your local GP to get a diagnosis.

The rest of your post only demonstrates that you have absolutely no idea what autism is. Are you trying to challenge Hanson on ignorance or something?

Oh god! AJ Philips displaying his very false sense of superiority AGAIN.

Stomach ulcers were diagnosed by highly trained specialists too, weren't they?

Hasbeen,

How am I demonstrating a sense of superiority? All I did was correct your misconception of how autism is diagnosed and point out your astonishing ignorance of what autism is. (I mean, “grow out of it”? Jeez!)

Don’t get so precious.

<<Stomach ulcers were diagnosed by highly trained specialists too, weren't they?>>

I don’t know. Maybe in cases where endoscopies were required to confirm their existence? Why’s that? Are you suggesting the doctors were seeing things?

Or is this yet another attempt at a fallacious ‘The science has been wrong before’ argument?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_was_wrong_before

The whys and wherefores of autism are beside the point, and beyond the ken of most of us. Pauline Hanson's comments were the topic of this thread, and more people than not agree with her.

However, I tend to agree with Hasbeen; there is an over-diagnosis of everything these days, including autism. I recently read an article on 'bulls..t jobs', the growth of which is outstripping useful, productive jobs by hundreds of times. Too many useless degrees, with holders eager to prove that they are worthwhile - wild predictions and 'answers' for everything, and to hell with the unnecessary fears and costs ensuing from their wild pontificating.

My wife was a special education teacher who remembers the first cases of autism, which started when heavily processed foods were coming on to the market. Poor diet; women leaving it late to have children; use of alcohol and other drugs by mothers. The causes are simple and obvious - traceable back to parents.

Here's another one for those of you more interested in assuming knowledge of autism than commenting on the topic,'Pauline Hanson is Right on Autism - think about mothers outsourcing their children to child-minding farms when kids need their mothers most.

ttbn,

There is no evidence to suggest that any of the factors you list cause autism.

http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&q=causes+of+autism+spectrum+disorder

Autism has always been around. The milder cases just went unnoticed, while the more severe cases were written off as insanity or retardation.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/07/11/is-autism-an-epidemic-or-are-we-just-noticing-more-people-who-have-it/#.WU3WP2iGOUk

Is there any topic where you don’t take the most ignorant possible position? Try educating yourself for once, instead of just assuming everything based on what it is that you want to believe.

There is no evidence to suggest that I am wrong. But, you just keep on believing what you want to believe; it is of no consequence to me. You are just another contrarian nark without a mind of your own.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that you're wrong, ttbn. I linked to it.

<<But, you just keep on believing what you want to believe ...>>

My frequent linking to evidence in support of my claims is hardly the behaviour of person who simply believes what they want to believe. Nor is it suggestive of someone who is merely out to be contrarian.

<<You are just another contrarian nark without a mind of your own.>>

There's having a mind of your own, and then there's just making it up as you go. As religions do with faith, you are trying to make a virtue out of a lack of evidence.

Ms Hanson was almost right in what she said but used the word "autistic" when she meant "disruptive". Not all disruptive students are autistic and not all autistic students are disruptive. What serious students who are there to learn, and their teachers, require and deserve is a classroom not dominated by yobbo disruptors irrespective of what makes them yobbo disruptors. Disruptors need to be segregated into classrooms ruled by teachers long on discipline and short on wishy washy "nuance".

There was a school in Melbourne which contained students who complained that their "culture" would not accept males having to take instruction from females. Moslems of course. Instead of placing an authoritarian old female dragon in charge of them to put the young prats in their place, Premier Joan Kirner caved in and saw that they had a male teacher. What a wuss!

I delayed writing about this subject. I have my own opinion but to be fair I wanted a consensus of the 2 Teachers, 2 Teachers Aids, a just retired Teacher, The mother of an Autistic boy & couple of older people & a couple of younger people with children in the lower classes of the school system. The 4 Teachers & Teachers Aids have older Children in higher Classes, of which two were involved in the Discussion over a BBQ.

I can say that only one person violently disagreed with Pauline & the
"Lady" doesn't have any children at school.

Everyone else said that the children with Disabilities should have separate Classes with appropriately & Specially Trained Teachers.

I was subjected to some very horrific horror stories. The Teachers, Teachers Aids & the retired Teacher all said that rarely do they get through the full lesson for the Subject. They all said that if they dare complain they are then counselled for their attitude & given a warning.

There are ways around the problem though. I was told that the Classes are divided up into A,B,C,& D. with the really smart kids in A & so on down to D. Where the Problem Children & the not so bright are put.

Not long ago I was asked If I would like to participate in a lesson for my neighbours daughter. She is a Teachers Aid & a Vet. She does the D Class. I had to bring my three puppies along while she gave a talk on "Looking after your Pet." I saw for my self the various types of disabilities & the disruptive behaviour the Teachers have to put up with daily. The Teachers from the other Classes saw what we were doing & what was only supposed to be an hour turned out to be an all morning thing. I enjoyed the day & had a great time with the kids.
Cont.

cont.
I don't have a Blue Card so one of the Principals had to be with me, but that was a good thing. There weren't any problems, distraction or tantrums with the other Classes. I said to the Teacher of the D Class that the other Classes weren't as much fun as her class & she said something I didn't quite catch.

So out of that exercise I came to the conclusion that Pauline was right to raise the Subject as unsavoury as it is. It's a Subject that need to lose it's Taboo & come out in the open.

The feel good people have been forcing this problem on the Teaching Profession for much too long.