Dear Steele,

Thank You for your posts and cited references.

To study the past properly it's usually best to go back
to what we call 'primary sources'. From these sources
we can look at many different persons' viewpoints
and draw our own conclusions about what life must have been
like. If primary sources are not readily available (and
sometimes it's very difficult to find them on all topics),
we turn to history books, in which historians who have
looked at primary sources have written down their findings.

Of course we need to remember history books are written by
human beings. Their words also cannot be taken completely
as 'gospel'. We need to ask questions all the time.
Therefore, just as with primary sources, we need to consult
as many historical records, not only books, but oral
histories, and other evidence to get a really fair picture of
the past. It is necessary to question the objectivity of
what we study (to make it fair to all sides) but we must be
able to use the different theories put forward.

We need to study not only what is in the history books but
also what has been at times left out.

Growing up and studying history I'm sure that quite a few
of us found that in text books that were supposed to report
the history of Australia they started off with the
European exploration of the Pacific Ocean and one could not
help but notice that a significant group, the original
Australians, the Aborigines, were overlooked.

Naturally, no history book can cover everything that happened
in the past, so most of us found that the best thing to do was
to try to find source material that gave us the information
required. Regarding the Stolen Generations - there's enough
accounts of the various government and institutional
policies, agencies, people's accounts, of those times on record
to be able to capture that past history.

There's not much more that I can add to this discussion.
I look forward to further discussions with you on another
topic.

Have a nice day.

Platitudes where what is so desperately needed is the humility to admit that the left does not hold the leasehold and copyright to the truth.

That is the problem with the illiberal, totalitarian left, 'I am going to impose my truth on events and on you' by re-writing history and by restrictions on free speech. -Which is where the obnoxious s18C comes into play, as some unfortunate QUT students would attest after Triggs (HRC) gagged them and tried ruin their careers and lives.

Although far smaller in number and effect, the far right is the same. Two sides of the same coin.

The posts of Big Nana and Loudmouth are breaths of free air, reassuring me that out there in the maelstrom of political spin there remain pillars of reason and good sense who say in effect, 'Hey, it is ok for you to have your belief systems, but if you try to impose them on others, confidently expect to be challenged for evidence'.

Just think, it only takes a smidgen of humility to benefit from that.

Steele,

If you think being 'half-caste' is or was a crime, you really are an idiot. Where do these ridiculous ideas come from ? Out of someone's arse ?

Ah, I see: you think that there was some sort of policy of 'stealing' 'half-caste children ? No, there was a policy, of taking neglected children into care, and 'full-bloods' tended to have stronger group structure and so someone was usually around to take care of the kids, AND governments were careful not to break down traditional culture.

It's striking that in the early days in SA, 'half-castes' tended to have far fewer social options, fewer potential carers, and more dangers, particularly for young women. My wife's gr-grandmother was what you would call 'quarter-caste', but luckily closely related to some powerful people in the group, AND was married off very young to a very active, strong man, a 'half-caste' raised in Goolwa, who had been earlier employed to work for the Protector. None of their kids were ever taken off them, come to think of it; none of their grandkids; none of my wife's many siblings.

So such a bullshirt excuse certainly wasn't used in those families, or any other that I know of. Yes, I know of many kids who were taken into care because their father had died, or their mother had died, or one or both parents were boozers. [Am I allowed to say that some Indigenous people can be boozers ?] Almost all came back after a few months, or a couple of years at the most. I know one bloke who must have been utterly useless as a parent, and sure enough .... His sister had been pretty useless as a mother too, AND their father, AND his mother AND her mother. [Wow, that's going back to the 1850s]. Yes, often it IS inter-generational, inter-generational incompetence.

Evidence ? Documentation ? i.e. relevant documentation ? Or will any story do ? Maybe after Foxy buys the Opera House off of me, I can sell it to you too ?

One born every minute.

Joe

Hi Steele again,

Newspaper reports: the website Trove has photostated every article in every Australian newspaper boing back to at least the 1830s. Not one was about any escape along the Rabbit Fence, not even in the West Australian. No mention. Nada. Dipote.

So what have you got ? Nothing. Not a scrap of evidence, only passion, gullibility (not that gullibility is always a crime, some of my former best friends are completely gullible) and the standard Narrative. Yes, I'm blind when it comes to nothing: I can't see 'nothing', as you clearly can.

Young girls escaping from Moore River ? Yes, indeed, and where to ? Perth. Fremantle. The bright lights. Your point is ? My god, it's true, that a little learning is a dangerous thing .....

Please take the time to find someone who can explain Big Nana's post to you. If possible, read it to yourself, a couple of times. Try to learn from one who has seen everything you have, a hundred times over. Be humble, Steele, learn from others.

Oh well, I tried.

Dear Foxy,

Thanks for your primary school lesson: "What is History ?" I hope Steele got something out of it.

Earlier you mentioned John Moriarty, who we knew well in the early seventies. He, like all other white and half-caste kids, were brought down from the top end of the NT for their safety after Japan bombed Darwin. Most of those kids, housed in Sydney and Adelaide, did not get back to their home communities until swell after the War, some not until about 1954. By 1950-1952 or so, as a bright young kid, John was ready for secondary school, so he stayed in Adelaide and finished that, then went on to a soccer career. So what was your point ?

'Stolen Generation' ? Just one example, please.

Love,

Joe

Dear Loudmouth,

If you are going to spout nonsense you really do need to hedge your bets a little.

Here are some extracts from the 1935 Western Australian Royal Commissioner who was appointed to Investigate, Report and Advise Upon matters in relation to the Condition and Treatment of Aborigines. The investigation was sparked by the numerous complains about the treatment of full and half-cast aborigines and the practice of removing half-cast children, particularly those living in the camps.

“At first sight it would seem desirable that, for the future welfare of the half-caste or person of lighter colour, the native camps should only contain full blood aborigines. As I have already observed, there is a duty on the community to see that half-castes are placed in surroundings and given a training which will fit them later to take their place, if necessary, in a white civilisation. An easy method from one point of view would be to remove them when young from the influence of the aboriginal and form settlements at which, on similar lines to those applied in the case of orphaned white children, they might receive the training above referred to. That method however, does not appear practical for application to all half-castes. The great objection in many cases is that they have parents, and there is beyond doubt in the native woman a great love for her child, whether that child's father be black or white.”

He later relates “At one school only in the Great Southern district I saw half-cast children attending the state school; they were, considering their surroundings in the camp, clean and tidy in appearance and, up to a certain age, the white children mixed happily with them. The head teacher told me, however, that from the age of about 10 to 12, particularly in the case of girls. The other children would have nothing to do with them; they were left alone in the playground...”
http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/intranet/libpages.nsf/WebFiles/Royal+Commissions+-+Royal+Commission+Appointed+to+Investigate,+Report+and+Advise+Upon+Matters+in+Relation+to+the+Condition+and+Treatment+of+Aborigines/$FILE/Royal+Commission+Appointed+to+Investigate,+Report+and+Advise+Upon+Matters+in+Relation+to+the+Condition+and+Treatment+of+Aborigines.pdf

Cont..

Cont..

He was actually ahead of his time in some ways. In other not so much.

He goes on to talk about the horrific conditions at Moore River, about the 'boobie' into which young escapees and other miscreants were kept in practically airless isolation for up to a fortnight and other deplorable living conditions.

But his attitudes to intermarrying were plain to see;

“But it is encouraging to hear from Doctor Bryan that miscegenation has practically ceased in the United States, partially because of the stringent laws against it, but chiefly because of the public attitude against cohabitation of the white and blacks. And in this State I am inclined to think that more can be done by public opinion than by laws. I have advocated the amending of the existing legislation and the drastic administration of the law, but it is one thing to know the practice is going on – it is very often quite a different thing to prove it to the satisfaction of the court.”

There is little doubt his mind and those of people like Neville half-castes were the product of criminal liaison.

As to the story of the girls you now seem to accept they may well have escaped the deplorable conditions of Moore River but imply they saunered off to Perth nearly 150kms away. What proof do you have? And why are we revisiting your notion that their walk would have been splashed all over the newspapers when to have done so would have seen them immediately returned to those dreadful conditions.

What we do have is the direct testimony of two of the girls who made the trek, the research of someone trained in journalism, supporting documents, and the appraisal by one of your heroes. You sir have given scant reasons why they shouldn't be believed.

Finally please cease asking to be given an example of a stolen child. I answered but your warped perspective refused to accept it and every other example will be given the same treatment so just don't bother.