Classic behavior for persons who are unable to reconsile two
opposing desires.
One to do as they are told, two to do unto others as you would want
others to do unto you.

I still say it is a genetic behaviour problem, no other race of
people has carried on like this for over a thousand years.
It may well be the reason why the Israel-Palestinian problem is unresolvable.

Many with bahaviour problems react badly when they are refused something
or do not get their way.

FH, check your facts.
1. It contradicts the Quran (4:137). Who cares what the Quran says! The important thing is what Muslims do, and especially what they do where they dominate. In Islamic societies, the penalty for apostasy is death. You will notice it is mostly Muslims that live in Western societies that say otherwise, where apostates cannot be killed. How convenient. Does that give you a clue? Have people no shame?
2. This hadith was only transmitted from Muhammad (pbuh) by one individual. No, FH, there are a ton of hadith about killing apostates from many different writers, including Bukhari, Muslim and AbuDawud.
3. There is no historical record indicating that Muhammad or his companions ever sentenced anyone to death for apostasy. Wrong. "Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed" Bukhari Vol9book84verse58 and many other places.
4. Many Islamic scholars say apostasy is serious, but does not require death. Except "Traditional Islamic Jurisprudence" demanding death for apostates is all over the Internet.

Be aware that apostasy is not just leaving Islam. It is much broader concept and our Muslim friends forgot to mention that it includes denying existence of God, rejecting prophethood of Muhammad, cursing or questioning Muhammads character, or even rejecting Muslim scholarship (ulema)

My favorite concept is Muslims being able to kill a person for "Mischief”. How can anybody respect a god that uses an ambiguous word like that? The Quran that people who commit the terrible crime of mischief can be killed. Wow!

Here once again, we have Muslims being less than honest about their religion and prophet. This is another example of deception by Muslims. They want you do believe that Islam is what they say or they would like it to be, not what it is. Time after time, Muslims misquote and get basic facts wrong. The Quran teaches hate and violence, but Muslims pretend otherwise. The hadiths are full of stories of raids, murder, plunder, slavery, torture and rape by Mohammed, but Muslims don’t want to talk about that either.

Radical Muslims kill, moderates make excuses.

Kactuz

I'm an atheist!
If all such we'd have no discussion. I was not always so, what the hell are we discussing, the right of one mob to kill another?
Get real it's against most modern thinking to kill, as it should be.
How does any thinking person believe he's justified in killing one who thinks or speaks his mind? This particularly in view of the fact that these philosophies were dreamed up 2000 years ago, enough to put one off his cornflakes.
History I believe is to learn from, that mistakes made in the past should not be repeated?
Religion is and has been the reason for murder for too long.
peace to you all.
fluff

Kaktuz,

“Who cares what the Quran says”

What’s mentioned in the Quran is what Islam is because what all Muslims agree as the Holybook. Hadith that conflicts with the Quran are dismissable.


“ No, FH, there are a ton of hadith about killing apostates from many different writers, including Bukhari, Muslim and AbuDawud”

The hadith I am referring to is the Abu dawood one and hadith follows a science of narration. Which makes it a single source hadith.
.
“Radical Muslims kill, moderates make excuses”
Since that your favourite slogan I have a better one from channel 9:
"if you are a woman, get into target”

Peace,

FH.

1/ It should not be forgotten that 'the conensus of the Muslims' on any issue makes it 'law'....
2/ The introduction to Bukhari and Muslim Hadith make it clear, that they were NOT considered by the scholars to be contradictory to the Quran ...if they were they would not have been included.

You are ducking and weaving mate.

FLUFF.. your turn :)
you say ur an atheist, and you feel that if we all stopped talking about our religious positions, everyone would be fine and we wouldn't be killing each other.

Sorry to challenge you, but one should not lump all religions into the one basket.

If Religion "A" says "If you leave us we will kill you" and religion "B" says "If you leave us, its ur own choice and on your own head" and if Religion "A" is based on a totalitarian State, and Religion "B" is based on the simple gathering of believers in happy fellowship under any kind of government.... and if Religion "A" writes letters of threat to Heads of government like 'If you embrace our religion, you and your property will be safe" and Religion "B" says "My kingdom is NOT of 'this' world" there is good reason to distinguish between them.

You sound like you are humming John Lennons "Imagine"

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

But what do people with no moral anchor (living 4 today) do to each other ?

'Stalins purges' 21,000,000 slaughtered.
'Cultural Revolution' 30,000,000 slaughtered.
Or..to put it closer to our daily lives.... "Get the f out of that parking space I HAD IT CHOSEN before you drove into it you f-ing moron"
and so on.

Christ said "I came that they might have life, and have it abundantly"

A much better option than 'imagine'.

Boaz,

"1/ It should not be forgotten that 'the conensus of the Muslims' on any issue makes it 'law'"

Thats only correct if it does not contradict the Quran. See below.

"2/ The introduction to Bukhari and Muslim Hadith make it clear, that they were NOT considered by the scholars to be contradictory to the Quran"

The introduction is as old as the book.
Here is the opinion of Dr Maher Hathout, a scholar and author of "In Pursuit of Justice: The Jurisprudence of Human Rights in Islam," writes:

"We strongly oppose the state's use of coercion in regulating Islamic belief in such a manner, since faith is a matter of individual choice on which only God can adjudicate."
Referring to the two hadiths traditionally used to justify the death penalty, Hathout writes:

"...both of them contradict the Quran and other instances in which the Prophet did not compel anyone to embrace Islam, nor punish them if they recanted."

"In one incident, the Prophet pardoned Abdullah bin Sa'd, after he renounced Islam. Abdullah bin Sa'd was one of the people chosen by the Prophet as a scribe, to write down Qur'anic text as it was revealed to the Prophet. After spending some time with the Muslims in Madina, he recanted and returned to the religion of the Quraish. When he was brought before the Prophet, Osman bin Affan pleaded on his behalf, and the Prophet subsequently pardoned Abdullah bin Sa'd (Ibn Hisham)"

I don't duck or weave Fuhrer, you must be looking at the mirror.