Today's Headline,
"Northern Gold Coast cane fields on market to build vast new city and set land sale record" [news.com.au 01Sept16]

How can 'they', the Qld Labor Government (but any government), be so damned stupid, hypocritical and greedy? Have they spent so much that they desperately need a windfall?

In the Eastern corridor between Brisbane and the Gold Coast there are hectares of prime agricultural land suitable for small crops, exotic fruits or niche Asian foods, (say) bamboo shoots. Much is low-lying land and in parts subject to freshwater floods as ancient creeks and water courses cope with the annual rains.

Sugarcane has been grown there for years but is now being phased out. That is great for the environment and a heaven-sent opportunity to establish new crops you might say.

But none of that is to be. This land like so much of the surrounding former farms previously used for citrus, custard apples and veggies (sadly missed!), is scheduled to become housing estates and canals. A Chinese developer is in the wings.

I don't blame the farmers, although the cane farmers have enjoyed a ride on the taxpayer's back for decades and compromised the community's health in the process (eg., canned fruits with massive sugar added received a subsidy). This is State Labor and local government selling out to get easy money from developers and from land rates and in the process destroying the food growing future of the region.

This is the reckless, greedy, shortsighted exploitation that was so sternly criticised in years past and promises made that it would never happen again. But it is still going on.

This is where all Australia should stand up and say, "NO, enough and bugger off!".

Maybe you and all your mates who don't want the cane farms developed can but up a bunch from the aging farmers that can no longer run them or afford to run them.

Then you can set up your exotic farms with niche Asian foods that have apparently very high demand and make a fortune. Easy money for you.

No subsidies of course.

Bugsy, you've hit the nail on the head. I think exactly what you wrote every time someone complains about farm land being changed into houses.

In fact, I go even further: a similar response can also be given to anyone who complains about any other type of other business/asset being sold. Eg: foreign investment buying up Australian companies. The people who complain about this should instead of complaining band together and present a better offer to the seller. (With the exception of businesses concerning national security- such as an Australian company with defence contracts: in these cases obviously the Government should vet foreign investment)

I suspect that on-the-beach doesn't have much current horticultural farming experience in South-East Queensland. Otherwise they would know why there are so few farmers left; it is because these days it is the wrong place to grow stuff competitively. Other regions can produce produce cheaper and with less risk. In SE-Qld there are too many challenges such as: water issues (there no major irrigation schemes), pest issues (especially the queensland fruit fly), the land is either too hilly or its on flood plains (there is not a lot the basically flat land that is flood proof), the land parcels are too small for modern farming scales (some fruit farms in other regions of Australia cover square kilometers not just 10's of hectares like the old ones on the Sunshine and Gold Coast use to), there are few supporting businesses and services (such as the likes of EldersRural which supply fertilizers, spray, irrigation equipment, etc.), there is also a shortage of farm labour (in rural horticultural towns there are working backpacker hostels near the farms and/or a large low skilled immigrant work force- however, there are very few people who live on the GoldCoast who are willing to work on farms).
Put simply, times have changed, houses are the best thing to grow in coastal SE-Qld. Preventing a farmer from moving with the times and selling their property to non-farmers is not fair for them.

Building residential estates on farmland is moronic. But, are politicians not morons?

Industry is moving overseas. What do we have left? Food production and mining. The comrades will eventually put the kybosh on mining, so we will be left as an agrarian economy - if there is any land left.

ttbn: why is building suburbs on farmland moronic? If you're so against it then form a group of like minded folk to buy the farm and farm it.

Anyone who grows food in Australia is a bloody idiot. Food production is not a profitable enterprise, unless in a very big way. Returns have reduced to simply not enough to bother. Where one good year in 3 was enough to keep farmers reasonable viable in the past, today they need 2 good years in 3 just to survive.

I looked at buying a farm in that area. They are marginal wetland, requiring heavy draining even for cane. Would not suit most crops, & only short term crops at that. Much more suitable for a well drained, built up canal estate.

Australian farming realities.

Case Study 1/-
Mate spent years of money & effort developing an organic vegetable farm. He gave up when in one 4 month period he did not get back the cost of the boxes & the freight to send his very good organic stuff to market, let alone earn anything for his produce.

Case Study 2/-
Tomato farmer, in a very big way. He loses money in at least 7 months every year when he doesn't get the cost of production, freight & cartons for his stuff.

He will about break even for a further 2 or 3 months. So far in 12 years there has always been a period of 2 or 3 months where he gets very good prices, giving him a good living. He lives in fear that he will suffer a failure of production at the wrong time one year, & it will send him broke.

Case study 3/-
Wheat farmer, a very good one. Third generation on a good 1600 acre dry land farm on the downs. At 50 a successful debt free farmer. At 58 after 4 drought years crop failures, & 2 where they did not get the cost of production for their wheat, in debt to almost the value of the property. Only a lucky storm saved a couple of hundred acres of cotton, or he was broke.

I can't imagine why anyone with enough money to farm, would ever do it

The issue is poor land planning by the State government, not alleged discrimination against farmers who will get windfall profits from the changed use and subdivision of their rural-zoned properties.

The land concerned is not significantly above sea level, as might be expected of freshwater flood plain. It is fertile red soil country and holds water well. It can grow practically anything suited to the climate.

Developers are interested because it is relatively flat, easy for earthmoving equipment and more canals can be dredged at low cost.

First, there is plenty of other land available.

Secondly, the development that is required is in the North, not in already infrastructure overloaded SEQld.

Thirdly, there is a limit to the supply of good land suitable for small crops, especially so close to major cities.

It is completely untrue that small cropping is always unviable. There is a rapidly expanding market for fresh, local, organically grown produce. But why would anyone want to cover thousand of hectares of prime small crops land with concrete and bitumen, especially when there is plenty of land that is less suitable for agriculture but fine for houses on the other side of the highway (M1)? -But better still, in Far North Qld. There is already far too much development affecting the foreshores of the bay.

Where are we talking about here?
Jacobs Well?

Armchair Critic,

A fair question so I will use another post.

Norwell Valley. West and North of Jacobs Well, with Ormeau and Stapleton as the first western border and then east to the Bay. The reports infer it is 'just' sugarcane land but there is a lot of good dairy and grazing country as well. Early estimate is 250 property owners.

However it also sets the precedent for land elsewhere.

Again, if the Chinese developer wants to invest, what about developing Far North Qld?

General Comment on hort. crops farming
There are options never considered in the past with export potential because of counter-seasonality to China, Taiwan and other markets. That is why it is silly to discount the timber and shoots of clumping bamboo to take an instance.

But why put houses on it ruling out any other future except more concrete and bitumen?

Stapylton

It isn't prime agricultural land. It's too wet and stormy to be of much value for farming.

See http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2016/s4453359.htm

Hey onthebeach,
I'm familiar with the area you're talking about, but I haven't been out that way for a few years.

It's hard for me to have a 'for' or 'against' position on this one.
There's a lot of factors to take into account.

Firstly, if you're talking about some precedent being set, then you're a few decades too late.
If you went a little further north to the Redlands for example a lot of good farmland has become housing estates already.

The little farmer stall by the side of the road is long gone.

The area between Brisbane and the Gold Coast was traditionally just a travel corridor and much of it was bush.
(except for the area you're talking about)
But with the pace of progress and the growth of these two cities they have started to slowly encroach on each other.

IMO there's a lot of incentive to move from down south to the Gold Coast simply because its a better lifestyle near the beach and its a lot cheaper than other places.
People can sell up down south and move to QLD, buy a nice home and still have plenty of money left over.
So an influx of people coming to the area is not something you can easily stop.
I read an article yesterday where they were talking about population caps on the Coast.

From a farmers perspective, when the helicopters start flying over and taking an interest in their property, that's their opportunity to finally cash in, because they don't make much during a life of farming.

I honestly think the better (flat) land for sugarcane is south of the border, between Tweed Heads and Murwillumbah, but I do have to say something in support of farmers.

I think they get screwed and we should do more for them.
Help them run their businesses more efficiently and make sure they're claiming for everything they can.
Even help them change crops if market forces determine it.

I heard about a guy who grew a crop of garlic not so long ago and made a fortune.

Long term planning is missing in this country.
The Chinese are buying up because they have to get their money out and
the return is not immediately important. Hence the thousands
of home units standing empty in Sydney & Melbourne.
You cannot outbid a panic.

In the longer term the thousand mile salad is finished.
Food must be produced within say, 150 kms of population centres.
Not familiar with the area under discussion but it does sound like an
ideal logistical location to produce food for both Brisbane and the Gold Coast.
If it is not suitable for fruit and vegetable production is there
another area further North that is under threat of housing construction ?
Anywhere near a rail connection within one or two hundred kms is needed.

This is what is known as long term planning.
Our politicians need to plan for food production close to major
population centres and for regional towns to have their surrounding
areas planned for their own food production and then further out plan
for export food production. However good rail connections will be needed.

Export will almost certainly need either nuclear propelled ships
or sailing ships. Don't laugh, Europe was fed that way for a long time.

An idea ! there has been talk of nuclear modules for towns etc.
Why not for ships, just lift them out for refuelling with container
handling gear ?

Unfortunately politicians are simply unable to comprehend long term planning.
We need a completely new assemblage of politicians.
They will need a completely new mindset on how to actually do things.

Capitalism is up for a complete rethink on its processes which has
been structured for hundreds of years on growth and that sort of
financing structure. That will change all present political parties out of sight.

Thinkabit,

You should think a bit, or at least read a bit. I explained why building on farm land is moronic. I think your idea that I should buy farm land and farm it is also moronic. I am a septuagarian, with no experience in farming, nor any money to buy farms.

Hasbeen,

Rather surprised by your post. What would happen to the Australian ecomomy if the "bloody idiots" stopped growing? What other exports do we have other than mining (which the comrades are trying to do away with)? We can't manufacture economically. What else is there? Mythical 'knowledge' industries that the smart alecks have not been able to get up since Barry Jones' (the last man with a brain in the ALP) famous 'spaghetti' drawing? Australia is nearly rooted already, mate. We can't do away with the only thing we do well. And agriculture is still the biggest money spinner in my poor old SA.

Aidan, "It isn't prime agricultural land. It's too wet and stormy"

Use your Google Maps. The report you referred to concerns a small section of the land, which isn't soggy as you suggest anyhow. It will be used for expensive resort-style housing. Which should indicate to all that drainage and necessary compliance with the new global warming sea rise estimates is cheaply and easily done, which is true. Other countries that value saltwater fish breeding grounds more than the Qld State government would keep the green belt and not overdevelop along the foreshores of Moreton Bay.

Armchair Critic remembers the many farmers' stalls that were once common along the rural roads. Common because the land was used for vegetables, fruits and some nuts. Yet the land is all being represented as only suitable for sugarcane, And for a massive redevelopment with windfall taxes to a cash-strapped Labor State government that has been getting its fingers burned for proposing to sell off government assets, contrary to its pre-election promises.

Armchair Critic is also right to confirm that poor land planning is not new and a lot of agricultural land close to Brisbane has already been developed as housing estates. What makes this a precedent is that this State government and others before hypocritically presents itself as being concerned about the environment and sustainability.

Hasbeen is right to reflect on the poor returns from traditional farming and from investment-led farming. However, demographics have changed and there are new crops and trade opportunities with Asia.

The key problem here is the over-enthusiastic immigration policies of federal governments. That and the idiotic preferencing of migrants who have proved time and time again that they prefer large coastal metropolitan capitals and Centrelink to settling in country areas.

If there really must be excessive population growth that puts undeveloped third world countries to shame, why must it be all in the already infrastructure overstretched South Eastern corner? The answer again is that the Labor State government is desperate for money.

This land is just swamp, previously drained. it is not good farm land.

There are thousands of acres just over the range in the Logan & Albert river valleys, which are much better farm land. Some of it was very successful dairy country, until the fool competition tribunal decided to give all profit from milk to the supermarkets.

Some of it is now used reasonably productively, but most is now just grazed. Many of the "farmers" are now part time farmers, working in town, & running a few cattle.

A mate who still has a dairy run by his son is still working 60 hours a week at 80, because they don't get enough from 300 cows, 145 in milk, to pay staff. Just how stupid are they. Another 10 around here gave up.

A Vietnamese family thought they had gone to heaven to be able to buy a market garden, with a good irrigation allocation, & over 20 acres to farm They worked their guts out, right down to the pre teen kids. It took almost 3 years for them to realise driving a truck for a boss just 40 hours a week was a lot easier, & more lucrative.

I did find a way to make money off my irrigation allocation. I grew advanced clumps of day lilies & metre high advanced hibiscus bushes for the Gold Coast landscape trade. This was quite lucrative, but not something you could give up your day job for completely.

My neighbour grew turf successfully for some years. He bought a bitumen company when a growing family required more income.

Yes you can make a bare living working 75 hours a week on the land, but I made 3 times as much running tourist boats in the Whitsundays, working slightly less hours. But food production, you've got to be kidding.

Hasbeen, surely in the end a hungry stomach will pay anything for food ?

A reclaimed swamp for a city you say?

Overpopulation and over-stretched infrastructure in the SE corner of Queensland.

Cheap land, the white shoe brigade, Chinese money and Labor politicians.

Yes Bazz if we get to that stage, but by then they will possibly just be taking it if they can.

It really is a change in the economy thing. 40 years ago the average Ozzy worker spent over 30% of their gross income on food. It was 30% food, 30% housing 10% tax, & the rest on medical clothing etc.

Today it's 30% tax 10% GST tax, 40% housing leaving not all that much for food, after running a couple of cars. Most expect to feed a family on less than 20% of their net.

The poor fool farmer has had to produce hugely increased quantities of produce, just to survive. The old wheat farmer, with a couple of draft horses could farm about 15 to 20 acres, & easily supported his family.

Today he has to own $1.5 million worth of tractors, harvesters & all the other gear, & farm 600 or 700 acres at a minimum to support that same family. Labour costs are such that he has to do all this with perhaps some family help, as he is competing with 3rd world labour costs.

Even when the product can afford it's costs, people won't do the work. My turf farmer mate could not get anyone to work for $1000 a week. He had to pay dole bludgers cash in hand to do even a day or two. Another neighbour set up a large hydroponic lettuce farm. After 3 months none of the locals would do the work, even the cash in hand bludgers reckoned it was too hard.

The family would be there until late every night packing tomorrows deliveries. The returns were good, but they couldn't hack the work load. He gave up after about 15 months.

Continued

Continued.

Yes we need someone to do it, but unless we will pay twice the price for food, expect less to be produced here, with even more to be imported, & of doubtful quality.

I always wanted to breed cattle & horses, ever since I was a kid. I even tried it with cattle about 28 years ago. I damn soon scuttled back into industry once the real economics of doing it became clear. It is a damn sight easier & better paid, running a factory, than running cattle, believe me.

Actually Hasbeen, you have touched the crux of the matter.
I saw some figures a long while ago about how much land one farmer
could plough, till & harvest in a day with a horse or a tractor.
I think it was 100 to one if I remember correctly.

What it boils down to we will either run farms on electricity or horses.
Either way it is going to make food very much more expensive.
The problem is that the politicians do not understand that the economic
arrangement we now have is up for a major rebuild.
This long term low to zero growth we are now seeing is permanent.

Until the pollies, who after all control forward planning, understand
that then we will just have muddle after muddle.