Paul1405,

Gosh, what exciting politically correct stories you tell. One or several for every occasion and so 'progressive' and instructive.

Your creative writing teacher might comment though, that except for the omission of a requirement for two dads or two mums, they can take their pick of either, it could have been a lift from the ABC's Play School.

Since you say it was 10yr olds(?!), what better example of the low expectations of pupils in State education. Any wonder Oz State School education lags so far behind other countries, particularly Asia.

Trusting you can find your own way back to the thread topic before 'little lunch'?

Beach, don't insinuate I am a liar, we all have personal stories, some choose to post them, and some don't. You try to hide behind a mask of moderatcy, but it slips every so often. The only fallacy on this forum is when a member of the rabid right such as your self post;

"I'd just like to see more parents and carers and the local community getting involved in schools.

That along with freedom and speech and democracy, should deliver the best for students"

Does that dovetail with your private armed 'Citizens Militia' you support, a case of get them while they're young!

As for; "what better example of the low expectations of pupils in State education. Any wonder Oz State School education lags so far behind other countries, particularly Asia."

The only problem with that is the kids attend a Catholic School! Ignorance. You should stick to ripping off city slickers in property deals.

Dear Poirot,

I have not patronised you. 'Late capitalism' is Marxist jargon, and I called it for what it is.

The prediction of the future is inherent in Marxist theory. When the future does not accord with the prediction Marxists either make new predictions or denigrate the person who points out the incompatibility of reality with the theoretical prediction. Marxist theory postulated that social revolution on a Marxist model would come first in the industrial advanced countries. When the first country to go communist was the mainly peasant society of Russia the prediction was shown to be false. Later analysis in hind sight explained why Russia was the place where it was logical that there be a communist revolution. Analysis in hind sight is more accurate than prediction.

Eduard Bernstein held that socialism is the final result of the liberalism inherent in human aspiration, not the mere product of a revolt against the capitalist middle class. He no longer believed in capitalism’s imminent collapse, nor did he any longer regard the bourgeoisie as exclusively parasitic and oppressive. He also believed that the concentration of productive industry was not taking place in all fields as thoroughly or as fast as Marx had predicted. Citing such reforms as factory legislation and the freeing of labour unions from legal restrictions, he pointed out that, under pressure from the socialist movement, a reaction had set in against the exploitive inclinations of capital. Thus, he argued, the prospects for lasting success lay in steady advance rather than violent upheaval. For pointing out the contrast between Marxist prediction and reality Rosa Luxemburg had Bernstein read out of the party. Bernstein was a social democrat, and the capitalism of Scandinavia has been modified by social democracy as you pointed out. There is no reason that other capitalism may not be modified by social democracy if there is a democratic society which allows change. That is what Bernie Sanders tried to do in the US. It may yet succeed.

continued

continued

One problem with predicting the future from current trends is that current trends don’t continue. Developments in technology produce unexpected changes. The actions of effective sociopaths such as Alexander, Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, Lenin and Donald Trump do the same. Unexpected change can come from many causes.

As I said, capitalism is protean and comes in many forms. Some of the forms are quite rapacious. That can be most horrible. The form that capitalism takes in Scandinavia is quite benign. I don’t go for the rapacious capitalism that increases the gap between rich and poor, cuts back on social benefits and disregards environmental considerations. That’s why I am a Green. However, I also am for an open society. That’s why I oppose Marxism which in the Manifesto prescribes a closed totalitarian society. I think a democratic socialism is possible. The Marxist statement that the state will wither away was a sop to Bakhunin who predicted that a society founded on Marxist principles would be a tyranny. It is a dicey matter to make predictions about social directions, but in regard to the character of Marxist societies Bakhunin was spot on although he was wrong about other matters. The First International split in 1872 between the followers of Marx and of Bakhunin. In 1876 it dissolved.

devid f,

"I have not patronised you. 'Late capitalism' is Marxist jargon, and I called it for what it is."

You forget that I, like you, have been around on this forum for a while.

I well remember in my early days here that you'd take any and every opportunity to drag your "Marxit spiel" out onto the stage and give us a ring-a-ding performance.

Got boring after a while....

"...I don’t go for the rapacious capitalism that increases the gap between rich and poor, cuts back on social benefits and disregards environmental considerations..."

Well of course you don't, but that's where we are. Th UK has done a job on its citizens of late. Wages have stalled in the US to 1975 levels...our own govt attempted to do the same as the UK Tories, etc...

Yes, so being a Green would point to an antidote for capitalism's rapaciousness. Things don't look promising.

Capitalism's very life-blood is "growth" on a finite planet - the two are mutally exclusive.

And shrieking "Marxism" every five minutes isn't going to solve anything.

'How is the Safe Schools Program Marxist-oriented?'

only Marxism is deceitful and dumb enough to realise that a child with a penis is a boy and a child with a vagina is a girl.