JBowyer,

This anti pioneer attitude is a big part of the problem. Somewhere has to be the first commercial solar thermal plant in Australia, and the economic conditions favour Port Augusta for that.

Bridgewater (and the proposed facilities at Mildura and Broken Hill) were just concentrated photovoltaic generators; a completely different technology. Unlike PV, Solar thermal has the big advantage of being dispatchable.

Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_thermal_power_stations to see where they're operating overseas. Unfortunately the list is a few years old.

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doog,

There should not be a feedin tariff. Solar energy producers should be paid the wholesale electricity price, not a special subsidised rate. What's needed is access to cheap finance to make them profitable to build. Once they're up and running, they can generate electricity more cheaply than fossil fuels.

Aiden here we go again. They are always somewhere else and always, always cheaper than fossil fuels. The point is if that was the case everyone would be building them. They are duds put up by charlatans and supported by idiots. I had a good look at Bridgewater and it was very well built but economically a dud!
When will you get it through your thick skull there is no such thing as free anything especially money. You squawk about our Grandchildren inheriting a failing planet but are happy to spend now with their money.
No subsidies for solar or wind it stands or falls on it's own merits.

JBowyer,
"They are always somewhere else"
Yes, that's the problem. We don't treat the problem sufficiently seriously like other countries do.

"and always, always cheaper than fossil fuels."
WRONG!

They are UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS cheaper than fossil fuels. We CAN create those conditions here: all it needs is to make cheap finance available. But the Abbott government did the opposite, demanding the CEFC make a commercial return and trying to get rid of it altogether.

"The point is if that was the case everyone would be building them."
Certainly a lot more people than now would be building them if cheap finance were available, but it certainly wouldn't be everyone, for two reasons. Firstly it would still only be a marginal investment; firms have limited capability and most would direct their efforts at other more profitable ventures. Secondly, the more renewable energy infrastructure gets built, the more it would drive electricity prices down, so the less profitable it would become.

"When will you get it through your thick skull there is no such thing as free anything especially money."
I did not say it was free. Even though it will ultimately pay for itself, there is an initial outlay. But there is no good reason to avoid spending the money.

"You squawk about our Grandchildren inheriting a failing planet but are happy to spend now with their money."
No, money the government borrows is not our grandchildren's. Where did you get the idiotic idea that our grandchildren are obligated to pay off the government's debt?

And look at it another way; why do you squawk about spending with our grandchildren's money while opposing doing the things that will bring tangible benefits to our grandchildren?

"No subsidies for solar or wind it stands or falls on it's own merits."
I think that's quite a shortsighted view, as fossil fuels have the effective subsidy of being allowed to pollute. Also, more renewable energy does drive down prices. However it's clear that feedin tariffs are not a sensible subsidy method at the moment, as they are expensive and ignore demand.

Aidan,

The solar thermal plant would never replace the coal plant, and on past projects would cause the power cost to rocket even higher. In all an idiotic idea.

What I am hearing from the left whingers is that the cure to the highest electricity prices in Aus caused by renewables, is to install more renewables?

"This anti pioneer attitude is a big part of the problem. Somewhere has to be the first commercial solar thermal plant in Australia, and the economic conditions favour Port Augusta for that."

One could easily make the same claim about hamster-wheel or fairy-dust technology. Or communism for that matter, as many have. "The only reason it has never worked is that no-one has *really* given it a fair go!"

Shadow,

"The solar thermal plant would never replace the coal plant,"
Supported conjecture! Its purpose was intended to be to replace the coal plant, and it's certainly a better replacement than the Nothing that did actually replace it.

"and on past projects would cause the power cost to rocket even higher."
Considering there have not previously been past projects for dispatchable solar energy, that's not a valid conclusion.

"In all an idiotic idea."
An idiotic dismissal!

"What I am hearing from the left whingers is that the cure to the highest electricity prices in Aus caused by renewables, is to install more renewables?"
Unlike the right whingers, those on the left understand that the causes of SA's high electricity prices is far more complex than just "renewables". Supply shortages are a much bigger factor, particularly with the current high prices. Poor regulation, allowing unnecessarily high prices to be charged for transmission and distribution, has also increased costs. Then there's the cost of the feedin tariffs to subsidise renewable energy; as I made it clear further up the thread, I oppose these. But the renewable energy itself is more likely to depress prices than increase them.

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PaulMurrayCbr,

"One could easily make the same claim about hamster-wheel or fairy-dust technology. Or communism for that matter,"
If the argument against hamster-wheel or fairy-dust technology or communism was that it hadn't been tried before, one could indeed make that claim. But there are much better arguments against hamster-wheel and fairy-dust technology and communism.

There aren't correspondingly better arguments against concentrated solar power with molten salt storage.