The Forum > General Discussion > The Passing of Muhammad Ali
The Passing of Muhammad Ali
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Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 6 June 2016 6:13:59 AM
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A NSW 'Watermelon' Green standing on the body of a dead man to score political points. Everything is political, eh?
As for white men watching blacks fight, there were plenty of blacks in Kinshasa watching his fight with George Foreman in 1974. He was a great boxer, but no sane person would volunteer to endure his confused, tormented soul. That 'African-American' split mind that is fashionable with the 'Progressive' international socialists and his Islam could be put down to uneducated stupidity and too many heavy hits in the ring. More about needy attention-seeking one would imagine. Islam was introduced to the African continent in the 7th Century. Since then what did Islam contribute to the lives of its adherents and the even more unfortunate who didn't convert to it? Amazing though how many easily influenced there are who are tearful and maudlin at the death of someone they didn't know and most likely would previously have sledged for the sport that won him fame. Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 6 June 2016 9:41:05 AM
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Beach, you could see inside his soul, gee you must have known him well! Others can judge, you attack the bloke as "tormented", suffering from "uneducated stupidity". No doubt if you had been around then you would have watched him fight one day, then applaud the actions of the boxing authorities for stripping him the way they did the next day, being as gung-ho about war as you are.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 6 June 2016 10:38:52 AM
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It doesn't escape the public's attention that coincidentally it is the 100th Anniversary of the RSL and along come the scurrilous, Trotskyist NSW 'Watermelon' Greens to make political use out of a boxer's dead body.
It is not so long ago that the Greens and 'gun control' (a few discredited activists with a phone and fax) were trying to score political headlines off the bodies and survivors of Port Arthur. Cringeworthy. More bad form from the shameless, headline-hunting Greens. Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 6 June 2016 11:02:42 AM
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someone who once claimed to be greater than Jesus Christ. Hmm
Posted by runner, Monday, 6 June 2016 11:13:48 AM
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Beach, if you were around at the time of the Vietnam War and conscription, I would think you would have been a gung-ho supporter. Going as far as enrolling in a Uni course to beat the draft, then to show your patriotism and support for the war, joining the University Regiment and getting into the action by parading around the quadrangle on Wednesday afternoons, but well out of harms way, many did exactly that.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 6 June 2016 11:30:50 AM
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To hell with Ali. I heard him described as one of the "greatest human beings". What rot. He was a champion at beating other silly peoples' heads in, and that was it. I'm sure that he is missed by his family, but the public lauding of him, dead or alive, is pathetic.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 6 June 2016 11:33:03 AM
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I am sorry this fine looking, anti-racist man had to die such a cruel death.
Parkinson's disease is an awful way to die, especially for someone who was so fit and active as a young man. Boxing is well known to cause serious head injuries in boxers, especially later in life. It is a nasty, dangerous sport that should be outlawed. It makes me feel sick to watch two healthy young individuals punching the c##p out of each other, just for the enjoyment and gambling needs of mindless morons in the crowd watching them... Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 6 June 2016 2:40:35 PM
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RIP to great Ali.
Posted by Appetency, Monday, 6 June 2016 5:47:54 PM
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CBS News tells us that "Muhammad Ali is being remembered
not just for his legendary boxing career and his inspiring public persona, but also for the dignity and grace with which he battled Parkinson's disease over the last three decades of his life." http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muhammad-ali-parkinsons-desease/ I watched Michael Parkinson's interviews with Ali that screened last night on television. Watching the interviews I began to understand why Michael Parkinson stated that the boxing legend was "the most extra ordinary man I have ever met." Ali lived during a time in the United States when colour played a huge role in a person's success or failure. This did not stop Ali. Ali could be arrogant, contemptuous and merciless. Then he would turn a wicked phrase or a roguish smile - and the world loved him for it. Rest in Peace Muhammad Ali. You did see things much higher and clearer than the short-sighted, and ignorant little people. Your views were way above their heads and certainly way beyond their comprehension. RIP. Posted by Foxy, Monday, 6 June 2016 6:45:10 PM
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cont'd ...
Please excuse the typo in my previous post. The link should be: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muhammad-ali-parkinsons-disease/ Posted by Foxy, Monday, 6 June 2016 6:50:49 PM
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Ali is being buffed up by merchandisers for after sales.
Then there are the political interests and failed celebrities who claim his celebrity for their own secondary agendas. Despite his bluster, I suppose that medical specialists would have picked up from the Parkinson interview the already apparent symptoms of brain damage and the sinister Parkinson's disease. Ali already was well on the way to the shambling figure of the 'punch drunk' ex-boxer. His neurological damage shortened his career and make him susceptible to further damage in the ring. A 'hero' and a model for kids? Perhaps not. There is a more sober and worthwhile discussion to have however and that is the very casual treatment of concussion in sport. For example the 'round ball' game soccer that is presently being strongly marketed for children to boost paying spectator interest in the first grade division. It is a game where heading a hard football travelling at pace (100kph for skilled players) is a feature of the game. Head to head collisions or with other body parts and the ground are also common. There is big money in soccer. This is not intended to introduce Nanny State intervention in sport. However one would wonder about governments and schools that actively sold soccer to kids while at the same time not attending to the risks, for instance by removing one obvious hazard, heading the ball, from the game. Incidentally, headgear has very little success in reducing the severity of concussion. Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 6 June 2016 7:58:14 PM
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A great boxer, for sure. An inspiring speaker, no doubt. A real 'character' capable of selling ice cream to Eskimos, probably. A man of great integrity, I'm not so sure ?
It's funny how, when someone as complex and famous as ALI dies, he's lauded over almost like a saint, and 'saint' would be a most erroneous description one could ever use, when referring to this bloke. Some may recall me telling you I fought four and six rounders at South Sydney Juniors (with permission of my police superiors) back in the mid to late seventies. And very few of the fighters I associated with, had much of a kind word for Muhammad ALI, let me tell you, and that's despite his great boxing talants. Posted by o sung wu, Monday, 6 June 2016 9:35:47 PM
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o sung wu,
It is amazing isn't it how political correctness and marketers (the tabloid media helps them out with an eye for future advertising income) can make a 'hero' out of a self-promoting fighter who admittedly was good at his sport for a time, but got very well paid for it too. I have been waiting for some of the Oz media clowns to edge a share of the reflected limelight by claiming some contact with him. They have no shame. Today I was meeting with some locals, absolute salt of the Earth, who have lived a life of service to the community and are still putting in hard yards as well as regularly putting their hands into their own pockets to help out. While some politicians and other knobs have claimed credit for their good work over the years, it has been rare for any of the men and women I am speaking about to get any public acknowledgement, except from the souls they help. Some will pop up with Australian honours, to make the other recipients like politicians look good. As an ex-copper you wouldn't be surprised by their past occupations, which are mostly service oriented. Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 6 June 2016 9:56:32 PM
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Dear paul1405,
“A NSW 'Watermelon' Green standing on the body of a dead man to score political points. Everything is political, eh?” The rank hypocrisy of his statement is obviously lost on this nasty little so and so. You are a better man than I for continuing to engage with him. Thank you for posting a thread to acknowledge the passing of Ali. Not only a great boxer and a great advocate for 'coloured' people but also someone who spoke the truth to government and the establishment. And what a brilliant entertainer. Dear o sung wu, My father held his division title in the RAN. I still have the silverware on my shelf. His talents were recognised early in naval college when he put three senior boys on their arses when they had decided to give him a thrashing one night outside the normal bounds of acceptable bastardisation. Very luckily for him he had a sympathetic commanding officer who handled the subsequent report and saw some promise. One services tournament many years later he unwisely took a challenge to box the army champion several weight divisions above him. Though he seemed normal afterwards the next three days were a complete loss. That was when he decided to give it a miss. I do recall how Ali was called a coward for refusing to fight in Vietnam. I think facing Liston, Foreman and Fraiser in a ring speaks for itself. Any man who steps into a ring at that level has to have a big heart. Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 12:19:05 PM
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G'day there ONTHEBEACH...
You're right, many of our political wannabes will claim to have known Muhammad ALI and attempt to obtain some capital from that. And I also agree there are many good people who you could only describe as the 'quiet achievers' who are constantly helping those social outcasts without ever getting any recognition. Many like the Salvo's and other like minded groups with their little vans, going 'round the inner city parks late at night seeing our most disadvantaged, with a word of encouragement, together with a warm coffee or cup of soup or similar. Almost ghost like, and their only real 'plus' is the (personal) knowledge that they've rendered some real good to these often belligerent, homeless old chats (derelicts), who even the coppers won't touch because of their pugnacious attitude (particularly towards coppers) and offensive body odour. And you can believe me when I say, the only personal attention some of these poor buggers ever get, is when they die alone sleeping under a bunch of newspapers on a park bench usually in winter. Thus their final journey is to a lonely 'Potters Field', in a secluded corner at Rookwood. A really sad indictment on our society ? Would you believe too ONTHEBEACH, amazingly many of these 'park carers' are young men and women - all of whom are the salt of the earth in my opinion. True they mightn't go 15 rounds with smokin' Joe FRAZIER or ALI for that matter, but in my opinion any one of them are worth ten ALI's ! Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 1:39:25 PM
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Kimbo Slice is dead.
Left reaction: Hey, he's black. Bet he said something deep. Yes he sure did. He was referring to those corporations, right? "A bird can fly as high as it wants but it eventually has to come down to earth and get some water... and when it comes down to get that water that's when you strike." Definitely another HERO. Cut down in his prime. Sob, gushing, tears... Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 1:41:44 PM
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o sung wu,
Our posts crossed in the mail. I have heaps of respect for any who take up roles* paid or volunteer where they can be of some service to the community. *a better word would be vocations. Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 1:47:31 PM
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Just been sent a link to HBO's tribute to the man which is possibly the pick of the bunch from what I have seen;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThJbZR8M9a0&feature=youtu.be It is interesting how figures like Ali, who were such a fixture for generations like mine, are just footnotes for the younger folk of today. To my children and their friends there is name recognition of Ali but little else. I have been thinking about why boxing has lost the pull it had over the likes of me in my youth. I remember huge anticipation before the big fights, when boxers were household names, when the schoolyard conversations spoke of little else. To me the turning point was when boxing fell into the hands of pay television. It stripped the immediacy away and limited access by the less privileged to whom the stories of boxers beating the odds were a source of inspiration. The messages Ali was able to deliver in a time of real racial discrimination and poverty in the US would probably not be possible now. What are we left with? MMA? Perhaps it is just me but hitting someone you have knocked to the ground is just an anathema. A cage instead of a ring, the kicking, elbowing and kneeing all speak to a brutalisation of a tradition, a gladiatorial spectacle very much in the Roman sense rather than a sport. Geez I'm getting old. Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 2:37:16 PM
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Hi STEELEREDUX...
I couldn't imagine ALI was a coward, and I do think he was treated quite harshly by the US government for failing to answer his call-up. I'm not entirely sure why he chose to avoid his obligation? Being who he was, he would've been given some decent posting where his fame and abilities could've been usefully exploited to the mutual benefit of both the US military and Ali himself, I would've thought ? One need look no further than Mr Elvis PRESLEY when he honoured his call-up ? Indeed, the Oz Navy have always excelled in the annual Inter-Service Boxing tournament, followed by the Army and the RAAF last, in the early to mid sixties. Today, the annual Inter-Service Boxing has been done away with, considered the risk too great to the young participants? But your Dad was part of a very strong Service team, being Navy, they built 'em tough in those days ! Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 2:54:42 PM
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Thanks SteeleRedux, I don't think that Muhammad Ali was in anyway a bad person, his life's contribution was greater than most, and he will be remembers kindly by the majority.
As for Beach, I see him as a bit of sport. I think I tagged him right as a gung-ho militarist who did no more than paraded around playing soldier. Ali stood up for what he believed in. Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 2:58:30 PM
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Hi o sung wu, just as Ali made a choice, Elvis also made a choice that went with his convictions. MA choice put his at odds with the authorities and he paid the penalty. I hold nothing against Elvis, in fact I am a big fan, been to many an Elvis show.
I an interest in what you said; "very few of the fighters I associated with, had much of a kind word for Muhammad ALI," Why? just because they were fighters doesn't mean they had anymore knowledge of him that I do. Ali was also a showman, don't hold that against him. Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 3:15:44 PM
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Dear Paul,
Michael Parkinson in his autobiography, "Parky," first published in 2008 - has dedicated two chapters to Muhammad Ali. "Ali, the Greatest," (page 181 onwards), and "Ali in Autumn," (page 192 onwards). It covers all his interviews and knowledge of Ali and makes for fascinating reading capturing a difficult time in American history and doing it so well. The Los Angeles Times also reminds people that - "Ali, after all started at the bottom and ended up at the top, literally fighting his way through the racism and limitations of pre-civil-rights America to become a living example of what can happen when you challenge the system and win." We're also reminded - that success in the ring made Ali famous, but it was his personality, open-heartedness, defiance, recklessness, and falliblity that endeared him to so many. RIP. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 4:51:01 PM
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Hi Paul 1405...
You must remember the fighters that I associated with and fought, were known as journeymen, tough as old bags but devoid of those finite boxing skills to win major events. As 'prelim.' fighters they were either heading up, or like me in it to earn a quid. There's no such thing as a good amateur boxer worth his salt. An amateur who could hold his hands up, turned pro ASAP in order to justify the heavy hits he took. I fought several Oz former champions, and beat them - why? On the way down they hit the piss, started working the doors of big pubs, and the rest is a sad decline to either crime or a drunkin' nobody. I was lucky I had a career to rely upon; so win, lose or draw was of no real consequence other than a somewhat bruised ego (& 'face') with any loss. It encouraged me to keep and remain fit, which was important in our occupation. The only real danger was to do something stupid that would bring the force into disrepute, and that was unforgivable. Moreover I sought permission from the Command Executive to participate, according to the strict terms of my written application to fight, and as long as I strictly complied with the criteria that came with that authority, I was sweet! You may also be aware Paul, many coppers played 1st grade Rugby League, their gentle countenances were often shown on TV, whenever they played. Their 'permission' was not unlike mine, simply a different sport is all. The main thing that worried Command; (i) Was the activity the member sought to participate, going to bring the Force into disrepute? and; (ii) Is there any likelihood the activity sought, may render the member medically unfit for him to perform their allotted duty. Fighters are very opinionated lot. From memory it was the late, great Rocky MARCIANO who was their favourite, as was his brawling style, that seemed to capture their imagination completely. Posted by o sung wu, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 5:57:41 PM
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Thanks Foxy, Ali was literally one in a million, o sung wu can testify to what happens to the other 999,999. Often boxing offered the only way out of poverty and crime. Even the lucky few who made it, the majority squandered their wealth and for many the lifestyle was too much. Seems Ali held on to a good chunk of his wealth of around $57 million. For a boxer of the times, that could also be seen as an achievement.
Hi o sung wu, it was nothing personal then, no deep philosophical reason they just didn't like his flamboyant style. The story goes that it was a copper who was responsible for getting Ali into the ring in the first place. Not as a classic juvenile delinquent type, but as a 12 year old, Cassius Clay had his bike stolen, and a copper suggested boxing as a way to release the boys anger about the theft. Another time, another place, that copper could have been you, and a good bloke he was to. PCYC (girls are in these days) does an outstanding job with kids off the streets and others. Should be more of it, money well spent. Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 9:35:04 PM
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Dear Paul,
My favourite quotes of Muhammad Ali's are: "Service to others is the rent you pay for your room on earth." "Don't count the days, make the days count." Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 10:50:01 AM
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Hi there PAUL1405...
An Irish bloke I regularly sparred with in the seventies; Heretofore the European Middleweight Champion in the sixties. And former contender for the World Middleweight Title, was beaten by KO, by the incomparable 'Dick Tiger' of Nigeria. It's considered the Middleweight division is perhaps the toughest division in which to fight ! He fought in the late fifties, sixties, and later in the 1970's on TV Ringside - Melbourne, past his prime. I'll not mention his name. He's now deceased, previously a broken man, with adult onset of Epilepsy, with just a few sad reminiscences in which to recount his heyday as a champion. Unfortunately Paul, we parted on very very bad terms, I had an affair with his wife to my enduring shame. He later returned to Coventry, England and died. I hope he's at peace now ? Before he passed, I was told he'd became a violent, brawling drunk, who was feared and shunned by all his friends. I recall him often telling me '...to be a good pug, you gotta be poor, hungry, with a lotta mongrel and violence in you, and again, 'f...n' hungry...'? He reckoned all these ingredients were necessary for a pro. fighter. Interestingly most of his era claimed that ALI was KO'd by the great Henry COOPER during their title fight in London. Henry had a vicious left hook, which caught ALI beautifully, he was down for the count, it was known in the trade as "enry's hammer" ! The Ref gave a painfully slow count, allowing the Bell to ring, saving ALI ! During my time in London (late 1960's - prior to joining the coppers & after discharge from the Army), I trained at the 'Thomas 'A Becket' in the East End, where COOPER trained. It was in fact a pub, with the gym above. This was the time the KRAY'S were active. I had the privilege to spar with COOPER and the current European H'Weight Champion, Jack BODELL. For a big man, BODELL could sure move. Both men merely 'played with me' - it was humiliating ! Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 2:10:11 PM
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There was more to Ali that just a boxer with a sharp tongue, many of his quotes are memorable for their insight, and the message that resonated with millions, both black and white. I recall the time Ali refused the draft, with his opposition to the Vietnam War, something that personally and professionally cost him dearly. The man could have simply gone along, and given his sporting prowess, would have had an easy time in the army, never seeing active duty, but he chose the harder road of protest.
A Muhammad Ali quote that sums him up; “What I suffered physically was worth what I’ve accomplished in life. A man who is not courageous enough to take risks will never accomplish anything in life.”
RIP Muhammad Ali