No sooner had the news of Cindy Waldron, 46, being snatched by a crocodile, than I hear some jerk conservationist saying that it wasn't the fault of the croc, and that people had to take responsibility for their own actions.

Not only was it extremely crass to denigrate a woman whose only error was not to pay sufficient attention to a few signs, it raises the issue that in the age of the nanny state where all steps are taken to cotton-wool us from danger, why is this particular peril special?

The conservation of these reptilian killing machines has been so successful that their numbers have risen to levels not seen since Australia was developed, and there is not a waterway in the northern territory that is not a death trap. Now that crocodiles are no longer in any danger of extinction, is it not time to thin the herd?

If evolution is true then killing crocs is murder. I think they should be a great food source for humans.

Yes I think it is time to thin the croc herd too.
Since hearing of even local Aboriginal people being taken by crocs in the NT, it is well past the time they should be culled.

As a young nurse working in Darwin, I looked after a woman who had just survived a croc attack up there, and it was truly an awful sight! I have never forgotten those horrendous wounds.

Certainly, even though I was young and not a local Territorian, I never even considered swimming in or walking near to any waterway even vaguely near the coast. This woman was indeed extremely foolish to go anywhere near that water in the daytime, let alone at night.
People, especially tourists, need to be aware of all water in the NT, except private swimming pools....and even then.....!

SM, you simply can not legislate against stupidity as this woman was taken while swimming late at night when these animals are most actively feeding. Just plain dumb.

I have fished many a croc infested waterway and seen many acting in different ways, due mainly to the amount of human activity they encounter.

In remote areas they don't seem to be bothered by our presence, while in more popular areas, such as Weipa, they shy away very quickly.

One of our biggest mistakes is hand feeding them, encouraging them to leap from the water for food, all in the name of tourism dollars.

While I agree numbers should be culled, stupidity can not be blamed on these animals because with the likes of facebook and the internet, there should not be a person on the planet that is not aware of the dangers up there.

Chances are this bird was pissed at the time and thought a midnight dip would be a great idea. Wrong!

There comes a point when the numbers of crocs put pressure on their natural source of food. That is when they switch from opportunistically hunting humans and actively hunting them. This has been a problem in Africa with the Nile crocs.

Having evolved into the perfect handbag or shoes, they should be allowed to serve their purpose.

There are $millions to be made from dangerous game safari hunting, buffalo, wild bull (Banteng) and boar.

Of course in politically correct, multicult Oz there would have to be the veneer of 'Aborigine owned and led' safaris. Patronising and insulting to indigenous with the implication being that they didn't have the nouce or go to take the initiative themselves. That 'whitey' is always necessary doing the planning, work and cleaning up to make it possible.

-Just to say that there are plenty of very well off indigenous in the NT and Oz who could take up the business opportunity and would have by now had they had any interest. Using taxpayers money to fund more indigenous enterprises is throwing good money after bad.

Sharks or crocs. People can't be stopped from surfing. If you go swimming at 10 oclock at night. you do it at your own risk.

People make their own decisions, so there is no problem.

579,

It is quite OK, you can go back to sleep confident that you will not be stepping into anything but your tepid bathwater.

While you are doing that though, others can try their best to earn some dollars to pay for the services you expect and are used to.

Now, back to allowing some businesses to develop more tourism up north.

I would like to see more detailed expert opinion on the subject, rather than an emotive knee-jerk reaction we have seen so far from some following the tragic death of Cindy Waldron,
So far I have not seen anything posted that would persuade me to support the mass extermination of crocodiles, even if there is a quid in it for some, a few on here see money making, as the be all, and end all, of our existence.

LOL, that would be the emotive knee-jerk reaction from the keyboard greens.

And attention-seeking NSW Greens who are given to crossing State borders to light fires in the open without a permit.

Anyone who fishes is aware of the spread of crocs far south in Queensland for example and how the crocs have become so plentiful, confident and aggressive.

Next trip north we'll be trading the boat for one with even higher sides.

Paul1405, you shouldn't need a higher sided keyboard to talk 'concerned' green though. The 'Watermelon' Greens only roll in the big metropolitan cities, right?

Shoot them out completely.

Try living with the bastards. Watch them trying the climb your bsck steps to get was the poor silly house pet.
Shoot the bastards into submission.

If the greenies like the things so much, we should relocate every problem crock trapped, & those in crock farms to Sydney Harbour & Port Phillip Bay.

In a world where survival of the species is so valued, the ultimate stupidity must be protecting the predators of your own specie. It is the greenies pushing it, which proves the point doesn't it?

Of course, the sight & smell of the only greenies I have seen to venture up north probably protects them from all predators. The rest of them seem to live in high rise apartments in inner cities, & I doubt the crocs or sharks will ever manage to work the elevators to get at them, more's the pity.

I feel so sorry for the family.

It would be horrendous to lose a family member in this
manner especially when people are consistently told
and should be aware of the danger of crocodiles in
the area.

Cindy Waldron's father stated that his daughter did not
like swimming or going into the water. The fact that she
was wading waist deep with her friend at night indicated
to him that she must have lost her fears due to having
had a tad too much to drink prior to this tragedy.

I'm not sure how to improve this situation from happening
again or if culling crocodiles would really prevent people
from doing silly things and taking these kind of risks. However,
There should be more signs warning tourists of the dangers
of going into the water in crocodile infested areas. That you
do so at your own peril.

We either 'shoot them into extinction' or we blame those who've been sadly taken, as yet another example of misadventure ?

The first option - I wonder just how many adventurous, inexperienced people (many city dwellers) with all manner of (licensed) F/A's would invade the top end with the steely eyed look of the big white hunter searching for a mythical '30 footer' big salty ?

While quietly observing these shooters, hidden deeply in the mangroves at the edge of some narrow muddy estuary, are the anti-gun lobby. Dedicated environmentalist armed with their anti-duck hunting noise makers, set to protect this hapless reptilian creature, encouraging them somehow to go deep, to save themselves ? Do they realize a big 'Salty' can't distinguish between the hunter and their guardians ?

Having mentioned these conservationists brings to mind this little heard maxim:-

'...hunting is the only sport where your competition doesn't know they're playing...'?

Put these two antagonists together; plus a bunch of hi-power centrefire F/A's; and add a mass of perpetually hungry large salt water crocodiles; The short duck shooting season in Victoria, will be nothing compared with a croc. cull at the top end !

I'd hate to be 'the law' trying to interdict, and regulate a 'croc shooting cull' at the top end, should it ever come to pass ?

The crocks are needed to keep the waterways clear of surface growing water weeds; when croc numbers fell the weeds choked the waterways; on the other hand we don't need croc numbers to get higher than necessary, commercial hunting depleted their numbers in the past and, regulated, could keep the croc population down again as well as providing employment.

The thought of Laurie Levy wading into a river to save a croc is appealing however, perhaps accompanied by David Sandalplank.

Of course that's the blokes name who annually tries hard to disrupt the Victorian Duck hunting season, Laurie LEVY ? Somehow I couldn't imagine Mr LEVY wading through the mangroves in the small muddy estuaries of the top end attempting to 'shoo' the big Salt Water Crocodiles away. One misstep and he'd end up being their afternoon tea I should imagine.

Shadow Minister,

"The conservation of these reptilian killing machines has been so successful that their numbers have risen to levels not seen since Australia was developed, and there is not a waterway in the northern territory that is not a death trap."

Simple answer... don't go these waterways.

Suseonline,

"Yes I think it is time to thin the croc herd too..."

Many people could argue for that for a range of humans, but they are very selective on that, so they themselves don't end up on the chopping block.

The Waldron family have asked that crocodiles not be harmed, even if they find the particular croc that took Cindy.

I suggest a party of the forums great white hunters go out and get dem' croc's! Which one of you is going to act as bait? Shadow, Runner, Beach, Hassy, Is Mise. No guns, no knives, bare hands only, make it a fair fight, the rest of ya can do your Tazan impersonation and wrestle the beast to death.

I have personally organised water skiing lessons for the greens in the northern territory so that they may enjoy nature in all its toothiness.

The example of the Hwange elephants is a prime example where nature conservation requires a hands on approach. The park in Africa was estimated to be able to sustainably support 6000 to 8000 elephants, yet in the late 90s due the outcry against culling, the population exploded to about 18000. The results were predictable. The staple diet of the elephants ran out, and they began uprooting trees to eat their roots, leaving vast areas desertified until eventually vast numbers of elephants died of starvation.

No one is calling for any extermination, but as crocs continue to grow as they age they go for bigger targets, and as they get hungrier they get more daring. For example in Kenya there were stories of giant crocs leaving the water and snatching people up to 500m from the water. The question is at what point does common sense kick in.

Predictable response from Paul.
The Greens are conservationists in name only and haven't done a thing for real conservation ever; all talk and no action.

What about the lunatic Peta-Wish Wilson who wants army snipers to shoot domestic dogs that bite penguins.

Don't the penguins know that the land is the domain of domestic dogs and that they need to be responsible for their own actions if they are stupid enough to venture on land.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cj5ciwTVAAA8SS5.jpg

No problem Shadow, we'll send that other great white hunter big fat Robert Borsak from the NSW Shooters and Hooters Party on safari to deal with that elephant plague. Fat Bob went over once before and bagged himself an a majestic beast, claimed he ate the carcass. Even for that bloke an elephant would have to be two meals.
You and Is Mise can go along as Bobs beaters!

!http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-mp-robert-borsak-shoots-and-then-eats-elephant-20160601-gp8xsa.html

Here's a solution which should satisfy the righties and the lefties: feed the crocodiles boat people, homosexuals and the poor. That way the crocs will get a good feed and won't go after tourists so we won't have to shoot them, which will keep the hippies happy. At the same time, we get rid of some boat people, homosexuals and poor people, which will keep the tories happy. A win-win, unless you're one of the people being fed to the crocs.

G'day there PAUL1405...

I'm not here to defend MR BORSAK shooting an Elephant, but I would have to remind most of the environmentalists herein, the weapon Mr BORSAK has ostensibly used (as pictured in your link) to take the Elephant is what's known as a 'double rifle' or 'express rifle' possibly built by an English gunmaker, like Purdy & Sons; Rigby & Sons, or Holland & Holland etc.

Though of a particularly heavy calibres (.458 Win.Magnum, 470 Nitro Express, .500 Jeffery or similar) it takes a great deal of courage to stand your ground and confront one of 'the big four' dangerous animals in the world. I'm sure our mutual colleague IS MISE would also readily agree, as a retired government armourer ! Two barrels, thus two shots, if you don't take him, you're in big trouble with an often mortally wounded, pain enraged animal at full charge !

While it's true, you generally have a 'safety shooter' close by who can end 'the charge', nevertheless there are dozens of experienced big game hunters down through the years who've perished at the horn, tusk or jaws' of wounded, dangerous big game.

For the record, I don't hunt, never have and never will. I do however enjoy the 'engineering component' of quality firearms.

So Toni, do we wait until they are married so the survivor can claim a widow/widowers pension. Not sure which it would be, I know, lets just find another word.

Hi o sung wu, I take your point as I always do, seriously. I am sure Mr Borsak was well protected as he faced mortal danger from the elephant. To say Borsak was acting as a conservationists when he shot the animal is ridiculous. The man paid big money to kill the elephant, and for no other reason than to satisfy his perverse pleasure.
Borsak claimed in parliament he only shot animals to eat, when questioned about the elephant, he said he ate it. If he did not, then he mislead parliament and should resign.
On a score of numbers killed the big game, including crocodiles and great white sharks, are not doing terribly well.

Since your here, I as you know am a pacifists, anti killing, anti war, and was very much so in my younger days with the Vietnam War. I am pleased by the news that the remains of 33 Australian who died in that terrible war have been finally returned to Australia where they belong, and can finally rest in peace.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-02/repatriation-ceremony-vietnam-malaysia-service-personnel/7469362

Paul,

The money that Borsak paid helps fund animal conservation.
The Greens would prefer to see 1080 used for culling; probably get some kicks out of thinking of the horrible deaths that it causes.

Last Sunday I shot four foxes, the stomach of one contained the remains of two White Tail Water Rats, contents of the others had bird and what we think, were lizard bones.
That's four foxes that won't prey on our native wildlife again.

How many Australian native animals have the Greens actively saved lately?

Is Mise, all I can say to that is...GOOD!

I grew up in pre-cyclone Darwin. My father would take us on trips into what is now Kakadu. We would set up our camp site on the side of the Alligator River amongst the bamboo stands (the dried leaves were just the best matresses imaginable) and four of us kids and the dog would head straight into the water.

At night we would hear the big crocs sliding off the bank on the other side and slapping into the river. One of my father's mates who ran a croc farm would arrive in his dingy and we would go spotlighting to hand catch baby crocs who could be seen by their eyes in the dark. We got pretty skilled at picking the size by how far apart the eyes were and within an hour we would have half a dozen 1-2 foot long beauties in the bottom of the boat.

Thinking back about it now has my mother in cold sweats but at the time my parents felt the bigger crocs were smart enough to let us alone. I would not put a toe in that river now.

My current position is that rather than culling there should be some crocodile education. This will involve shooting some within specific areas but as very territorial animals I know from firsthand experience they can be taught to respect human areas.

I also know that as more humans encroach into new areas there will continue to be habitat loss and ignorant southerners losing their lives.

As to legislating against ignorance I still see people wandering barefoot through thick grass during summer to get to a swimming hole near us. If the place where this unfortunate woman lost her life was signposted then I'm not sure a massive cull is the answer, in fact it is nanny state in the extreme.

Hi there PAUL1404...

I think it was honourable that government repatriated these 33 souls back home. Made up of 22 KIA in South Vietnam, the others included several diggers who were casualties from other conflicts, and a couple of dependents including a child as well from what I've heard ? Finally they've all come home !

To lawfully take any big game in Africa (depending on the Country) costs quite a few dollars. To take an Elephant, Rhino, Lion, Buffalo or Leopard, you have to obtain a permit for each animal. Which is usually obtained from the authorities on your behalf by your government licensed guide.

A safari costs pretty big bucks in every way Paul. Countries like Botswana and South Africa ensure safari's are properly conducted and the guides experienced and licensed. Other Nations situated on the African continent, I'm not so sure, due to the rank corruption and economic considerations.

I would think our Mr BORSAK is not short of a dollar - to purchase a decent double rifle will run you well into $14k+, as every round you put through it is expensive, whether you reload or not. As I mentioned to you earlier, I thoroughly enjoy the engineering component of fine F/A's particular the heavier, European marques made famous down through the years.

Though I've been to South Africa and travelled through several game areas, all I shot with, was a half decent SLR Camera, loaded with 35mm slides. Somehow, I don't believe I'd particularly enjoy speaking with Mr BORSAK, all though his rifle(s) would be of remarkable interest to me ?

Paul1405 is back in his familiar 'Watermelon' Greens territory, minding someone else's business and trying to score tawdry political points while his target, a political opponent of course, is doing something that is perfectly legal and encouraged by the governments that need foreign exchange to provide for their citizens and to support wildlife reserves.

http://thehill.com/opinion/katie-pavlich/250746-katie-pavlich-in-defense-of-trophy-hunting

The Greens are not in a position to be the moral guardian of anyone. They should be attending to their own backyard. The Greens leader takes advantage of young foreign workers.

Then there is the arrogant stupidity of Sarah Hanson-Young who continually goes out of her way to prove she is not deserving of her large remuneration as a federal Senator.

"How wrong can one politician be?"
http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/180786

The Greens should be attending to their own backyard rather than forever leaning over the fence, spreading their scurrilous gossip.

Returning to the subject, the increasing frequency of saltwater crocodile attack, their abundance and appearance in waters as far south as Hervey Bay in Queensland, prove that routine culling is necessary. That can be done in a very controlled way through highly profitable dangerous animal hunting.

Boutique hunting tours have no impact on the environment and could be a money-making boon to small business and townships in the North where employment opportunities are needed and welcomed.

It is expected and ridiculous that elements such as the Greens would be playing politics where there is a good prospect of providing employment and interest for indigenous communities. Accepting of course that it should all be done by private investment, which is available. All government has to do is get out of the way and count the $$ from increased tax revenue and reduced reliance of local populations on welfare handouts.

so exactly what is the gain in 'hunting the croc that did it' .. some catholic notion of punishing the croc for a misdeed ? the croc would not know the difference between human and other food in its natural environment

traveloz,

The point of killing crocs and sharks that kill people is not for retribution, but because animals have the ability to learn, and once they kill a human the chance that they try again is greatly increased. Having a opportunistic killer in the water, is undesirable, leading to crocs being moved, but one that deliberately targets people is far too dangerous.

Last week we saw 3 people killed by sharks and a croc. At what point do we look after people?

traveloz,

How otherwise would you propose that police obtain the woman's remains?